1194 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Silfren wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Knight Commander wrote...

He/she never said anything about the Qunari and since when did people get raped in kirkwall?

Alrik and Karras both raped Mages.

Also the mage, Ella...it was heavily implied that Alrik planned to rape her when she was made Tranquil, which in turn suggests that he made a habit of doing that to the Tranquil mages.

That's what I meant when I said Alrik . I consider a Tranquil Mage to still be a Mage.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 mai 2012 - 10:27 .

[GavrielKay]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Mages can never live among people.

What part of "worst cataclyisms in history" is hard to undersand?

What part of "mages do live around people" do you not understand? 

Rich mages, apostates, Dalish mages, Rivaini seers, Chasind shamans, cirlces mages with special permission etc.

It has happened, it still happens.  Look past the Chantry claims about its own necessity and you'll see it isn't so cut and dried.

[Dave of Canada]

GavrielKay wrote...

Rich mages

Do not live among the people, they live among the Circle like everybody else. They have an entire fraternity devoted to commerce.

apostates

Dangerous and irresponsible, don't care for others and place every one in danger. Left to their own devices, they can cause untold destruction. Too many examples to list.

Dalish mages

Have limitations and restrictions, including ways to deal with abominations should it come to that (or they get wiped out and don't show up to the next gathering of the clans). Not a long term solution for every mage, only works cause Dalish are nomads and all know each other. There's no way to impose a limit of how many mages per group anywhere else.

Rivaini seers, Chasind shamans

Both dangerous and the people around them deal with possessions by viewing them as similar to natural disasters, not a solution which everyone would accept or tolerate.

cirlces mages with special permission

Mages who recieve special permission still keep in touch with the Circle and it's affairs. They aren't completely integrated into society. Wynne, Ines, Finn, ect are still "shackled", they're just given breathing room until they screw up or become a threat to society. 

etc.

Just a few more examples.

Grey Wardens are restricted to one mage at a time, Tevinter still takes away mage children and tutors them and has vigilant Templar (though they're more crooked to serve the magisters).

The idealist's world of mages coexisting with people is a pipe dream. 

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[GavrielKay]

Dave of Canada wrote...
The idealist's world of mages coexisting with people is a pipe dream.

Except for all the places it happens.  You may not like it, and may find risks that you think make it ok to strip basic rights from mages, but it does happen.  And the world hasn't ended.  And things haven't gotten so bad in those societies that they've changed their ways either.

Modifié par GavrielKay, 11 mai 2012 - 11:34 .

[Dave of Canada]

It happens in small communities where not a lot of people reside, it doesn't mean it'll work perfectly fine when applied to larger nations like Orlais or Nevarra.

Tevinter keeps the principles of the Circle system, Grey Wardens / Dalish / Special Cases have limitations which cannot be imposed anywhere else, Chasind / Rivaini (which still have magical restrictions) dismiss the problem of abominations and live by dismissing the death toll. Something which the rest of Thedosian society will not abide.

When these solutions work in places like Val Royeaux or Denerim, then truly mages co-exist with society. However, there isn't much of a "society" to build upon. The Circle system is implemented by the truly "mage" society and the others dismiss or protect themselves from the problems which come from not having it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 mai 2012 - 11:47 .

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...


Do not live among the people, they live among the Circle like everybody else. They have an entire fraternity devoted to commerce.

Incorrect. See here.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Grey Wardens are restricted to one mage at a time,

Incorrect as well. The Warden Commander of Amaranthine can have two mages -- and possibly be a mage -- in his group of recruits and Soldier's Peak shows numerous mages (Avernus, his acolytes, the Archivist, and the Archivist's assistant to name a few).

Dave of Canada wrote...

The idealist's world of mages coexisting with people is a pipe dream.

It isn't.

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Incorrect. See here.

Then every other rich family maged must've had ****ty families who refused to pay them out of the Circle. Poor Connor/Rowan/Amells/ect.

Incorrect as well. The Warden Commander of Amaranthine can have two mages -- and possibly be a mage -- in his group of recruits and Soldier's Peak shows numerous mages (Avernus, his acolytes, the Archivist, and the Archivist's assistant to name a few).

Perhaps it was abandoned as a plot point, it was mentioned a couple of times in Origins. The cleaner guy in the Mage Origin for example who mentions there's only one Grey Warden mage at a time and he regrets not having gone. Maybe it's just explained that Awakening is the exception and Soldier's Peak happened before the rule occured. /shrug

It isn't.

Well, technically, that's true. Sandal's prophecy suggests everybody turning into mages or the normies must be culled until all of Thedas is Tevinter Imperium 2.0. Protag #(?) will try and stop that at all costs, however.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 mai 2012 - 12:40 .

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Then every other rich family maged must've had ****ty families who refused to pay them out of the Circle. Poor Connor/Rowan/Amells/ect.

For Connor, it's possible that Isolde wasn't aware that money could help Connor stay out of the Circle. We don't know much about her family's history other then that magic has always been a part of it.

Unless the Stolen Throne went into her family's history more. I understand she's the daughter of the Orlesian arl of that time, but I don't know if she says anything about magic being in her line in there.

For the Amells, remember that much of their fortune and luck went to hell after Revka had a mage child. And when Bethany is taken to the Circle, it's because she wants to be there. She'd probably fight her family to stay in that wretched place. But Hawke is able to stay out of the Circle with his money if he's a mage.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Well, technically, that's true. Sandal's prophecy suggests everybody turning into mages or the normies must be culled until all of Thedas is Tevinter Imperium 2.0. Protag #(?) will try and stop that at all costs, however.

I think his prophecy applies more to the Dwarves then to society as a whole, given the Nexus Golem's comment of "We were once more then we are."

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 mai 2012 - 12:52 .

[Dave of Canada]

 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For Connor, it's possible that Isolde wasn't aware that money could help Connor stay out of the Circle. We don't know much about her family's history other then that magic has always been a part of it.

Nobody pointed it out to either Isolde or Eamon, though? They'd rather break chantry law, hire a random apostate who lived most of his adult life in the Circle and tell him "teach my son, pls"?

Perhaps it's only an Orlesian thing, I mean we've got the Baroness (though I doubt her actions were approved by Emperor Florian / King Meghren assuming they knew she was a mage at all).

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote... 

For the Amells, remember that much of their fortune and luck went to hell after Revka had a mage child. And when Bethany is taken to the Circle, it's because she wants to be there. She'd probably fight her family to stay in that wretched place. But Hawke is able to stay out of the Circle with his money if he's a mage.

Revka's child occured before most of the problems which befell the Amells family, they weren't completely bankrupt until afterwards when the family started falling apart and even then, you had Gamlen who still had the estate and what was left of the fortune. They could've afforded something as soon as the kid got taken, rather than wait until the family fell apart with the charges and Leandra running off with Malcolm.

---

Act 3 Bethany probably didn't want to stay in the Circle, the Champion of Kirkwall could've most likely have used his influence to push her out or afford her better treatment / quarters. 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think his prophecy applies more to the Dwarves then to society as a whole, given the Nexus Golem's comment of "We were once more then we are."

Always took the comment as being a general "we", there's references of all elves having magic long ago and we've got hints at human mages growing more and more problematic in recent years (which is causing the Circle system problems and  led to the current Templar/Mage war) compared to before.

Whatever "change" is coming involves magic and it isn't going to be pretty and my protagonist will try to stop it, despite Morrigan/Flemeth's mentions of fighting change/fate.

[dragonflight288]

Nobody pointed it out to either Isolde or Eamon, though? They'd rather break chantry law, hire a random apostate who lived most of his adult life in the Circle and tell him "teach my son, pls"?

Nope. Just Isolde. She made it very clear that Eamon was not to know that Connor was a mage because he would send him to the Circle. He didn't find out until after he wakes up in Origins when either Connor or Isolde is dead, or they both live and most of the village he rules is dead. And then he had other problems to deal with (he was almost assassinated, the king was dead, a blight was ravaging the land and he was plotting to depose Anora so he could get Alistair on the throne.)

Act 3 Bethany probably didn't want to stay in the Circle, the Champion of Kirkwall could've most likely have used his influence to push her out or afford her better treatment / quarters.

Not likely. Meredith uses a mage Hawke's magical nature to blackmail him/her into doing her bidding (badly veiling a threat to have him locked up in the Circle and the only reason she hasn't done so is political reasons) or uses Bethany as leverage to get Hawke to do stuff for her. Meredith had more power and influence than the Champion did because she was the acting Viscount at the time.

[GavrielKay]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Nobody pointed it out to either Isolde or Eamon, though? They'd rather break chantry law, hire a random apostate who lived most of his adult life in the Circle and tell him "teach my son, pls"?

Eamon didn't know.  And he was presented as a level headed law abiding sort who might not have wanted to push for it anyway.  Besides, even rich connected mages have to be trained.  Which means that the circle would raise Connor at least until adulthood before there would be a chance to make other arrangements.  For a distraught (and stupid) mother, that might have been too much.

[bleachorange]

Darkrider296 wrote...

The Gallows has some screwed up stuff going on. Listen to what the mages walking by you say. Listen to what the Tranquil's walking by you say. Listen to the whippings and sceams you hear when you go by those gates in the Gallows. You can kill all the bad Templars you want yet the sexual abuse doesn't stop even in Act III its mentioned. Mages are made Tranquil for political purposes more and more. Also look for a scene involving an elf who sees his lover turned into a Tranquil. That scene was beyond disgusting. Screw the Templars they prove what Flemeth said. Sometimes the hearts of men hold things darker than any demon. STOP OPPRESSING THE MAGES  Its beyond disgusting what the Templars do to them And screw all the fans who like that bigot Cullen <_<

The Templars sometimes don't even let Mages go outside. And people wonder why so many Mages go insane

yeah, but the fact is there are bad mages and bad templar. the templar need to exist, but that doesn't mean what they are doing is right.

and we've always known there are bad mages, especially after one murders your mother in a twisted magical experiment.

there needs to be a balance of power, and mutual respect between the two parties for them to peacefully coexist. but anders and meredith effed that up. oh well.

Modifié par bleachorange, 12 mai 2012 - 01:26 .

[GodWood]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Well that's some hyperbole and a half.

Even the Kirkwall Circle which was terrible and riddled with corrupt templars and dangerous maleficar was nothing like what you described.

Personally, if I lived in Thedas, I'd happily live in a proper Circle (e.g. Fereldan's circle). I'd get free food, free education, nice shelter, a room to myself, get to hang with my buddies, **** who I want, practice my magical powers without fear of persecution and best of all they'd lessen my chances of being possessed by a demon.

Plus there's the fact that I'd be living better then 99% of the population.

And if you were born a mage in Qunari lands, you'd have your tongue cut out, mouth possibly sewn shut if that didn't happen, be forced to wear a collar, and you wouldn't be trusted to look after yourself for any length of time because the time between watchment may have had a demon make a deal with you and you would be immediately executed.

So? I made no mention of Qunari customs.

And if you're in the Andratian circles (outside of Tevinter) then how well the mages are treated is tied directly into the beliefs and attitude of the Knight-Commander at the time. And if you were in Kirkwall's circle, you could be locked in your cell for days, beaten for talking to civilians who visit, raped in the middle of the night and wouldn't have anyone to report that too, and possibly illegally made tranquil if you passed your harrowing.

Sounds like a great place to live. I mean, free food and education has to make up for all that right?

Sounds like you completely failed to comprehend a single post and got caught up in some strawman argument against no one.

Because I'm nice I'll reiterate it for you. If I lived in Thedas, I'd happily live in a proper Circle (e.g. Fereldan's circle). In this institution I'd get all the benefits I previously mentioned all the while having the common folk adequetly protected from the inherent dangers of my magic.

The problem with the Circles you mentioned (that I did not support living in) is that they do not seem to follow a strictly enforced set of standardized rules and regulations for Circle management. Ideally all circles should submit to one sovereign power that would be the only one to have jurisdiction over how mages can and can not be treated. The role of the Knight Commander and the Templars within a Circle, would simply be to enforce and uphold these set of rules and regulations. Those who don't would be punished by another branch of the system that's role is to make sure Templars act appropriately within their position.

That's how you solve the supposed 'mage issue'. Those clamouring for 'complete and total mage liberation' are just fanatical morons who refuse to accept the inherent dangers of magic and who have absolutely no perspective in regards as to just how comfortable a mage's life is in comparison to the common man.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Nobody pointed it out to either Isolde or Eamon, though? They'd rather break chantry law, hire a random apostate who lived most of his adult life in the Circle and tell him "teach my son, pls"?

Perhaps it's only an Orlesian thing, I mean we've got the Baroness (though I doubt her actions were approved by Emperor Florian / King Meghren assuming they knew she was a mage at all).

Eamon never knew. He would've sent Connor to the Circle to begin with.

GavrielKay summed up my thoughts more or less. Connor still would've had to have been trained and based on what we know of Isolde, that may have still been too much for her to deal with.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Revka's child occured before most of the problems which befell the Amells family, they weren't completely bankrupt until afterwards when the family started falling apart and even then, you had Gamlen who still had the estate and what was left of the fortune. They could've afforded something as soon as the kid got taken, rather than wait until the family fell apart with the charges and Leandra running off with Malcolm.

Based on the codex, it seems that all of this happened in quick succession.

But this isn't a case of the rich mage being free for all their life. They still have to be trained. The issue about rich mages is that some mages get to leave the Circle because their family is wealthy. Not that they get to stay out their whole life.

Though I imagine that if they were willing to search, a rich mage's family could hire a private tutor for the mage. Isolde tried this, but she didn't know that Loghain had purposely sent Jowan to achieve his own ends.

Shame really. Jowan had just begun to teach Connor and hadn't been able to get into the more critical aspects. The poison was fast-acting I imagine and once Eamon fell into a coma Connor made the bargain with the Demon then and there.

I'm certain that Jowan would've still taught Connor what he needed to know, had Isolde not discovered what Jowan did and imprisoned him and had Connor not made a pact with the Demon.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Act 3 Bethany probably didn't want to stay in the Circle, the Champion of Kirkwall could've most likely have used his influence to push her out or afford her better treatment / quarters. 

Unfortunately, she couldn't leave. Meredith would've killed her and tries to blackmail Hawke into aiding her by using Bethany as leverage.

The Champion wouldn't have been able to do much to help his sister in Act III.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Always took the comment as being a general "we", there's references of all elves having magic long ago and we've got hints at human mages growing more and more problematic in recent years (which is causing the Circle system problems and  led to the current Templar/Mage war) compared to before

Ah that's right. Elves did have the gift of magic long ago, according to the stories.

Maybe it does deal with society as a whole. If so, the Qunari are in for a rude awakening when they all find out they're Saarebas.

Godwood wrote...

Those clamouring for 'complete and total mage liberation' are just fanatical morons who refuse to accept the inherent dangers of magic and who have absolutely no perspective in regards as to just how comfortable a mage's life is in comparison to the common man.

Barely anyone has said that the Mages should roam free with no restrictions in place. To think that's the prevailing opinion amongst pro-mage people is foolish.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 mai 2012 - 07:38 .

[Lazy Jer]

Filament wrote...

It is, The Baconer is right. The lessers must be purged, and the rest put back in their place if the mages ever want freedom for themselves.

This again?

[dragonflight288]

Because I'm nice I'll reiterate it for you. If I lived in Thedas, I'd happily live in a proper Circle (e.g. Fereldan's circle). In this institution I'd get all the benefits I previously mentioned all the while having the common folk adequetly protected from the inherent dangers of my magic.

I have no problem with proper circles. Problem is they can change based on whose the Knight-Commander. I recall in Origins, if you annul the circle, Cullen eventually becomes the Knight-Commander there (according to the epilogue before DA2 came out) and he's a hardliner and the epilogue described it similar to that of Kirkwall's circle. A proper circle can easily change on whose in charge of the templars.

And I shall also be nice and reiterate an argument I have made repeatedly in the past. I don't dispute the need for templars and their abilities. I fully recognize the danger of abominations and blood magic. But the templars having full control of the Circle, addicted to lyrium (the trade of it is controlled by the Chantry) and largely recruited from hardcore religious masses who won't question their orders (and largely zealots) is not the way to go. You can't reason with a drug addicted religious zealot. It's their way or a sword through your heart. My argument has always been that the Circle must still be mandatory, the templar order still exist, but remove all control the templars have, and turn that control over to the crown of their country. Not a perfect system, but the crown will most certainly want healthy mages to serve as healers or soldiers or whatever, rather than keep them locked in a tower and only let seven out of hundreds go fight in a war.

The problem with the Circles you mentioned (that I did not support living in) is that they do not seem to follow a strictly enforced set of standardized rules and regulations for Circle management. Ideally all circles should submit to one sovereign power that would be the only one to have jurisdiction over how mages can and can not be treated. The role of the Knight Commander and the Templars within a Circle, would simply be to enforce and uphold these set of rules and regulations. Those who don't would be punished by another branch of the system that's role is to make sure Templars act appropriately within their position.

I'll get to the bolded part in a moment.
Again, changes based on whose in charge of the templars at the time. Under Gregoire, it looked like he and Irving while at each others throats, genuinely respected one another and listened to each other's council. Gregoire, although complained that seven mages were too many to send to war, was not unreasonable. He saw a greater threat in the blight than he did in mages potentially being a danger, as is shown by his willing acceptance of Irving's word over Cullen's. But under Meredith, things are radically different. Same order, supposedly same standards. Completely different environment for the templars and mages.

Now for the bolded part. I agree. The templars need an overseer. The problem therein is, there already is one. The Seekers. But was it not the Head Seeker who led the templars against the Divine and the Chantry because she wasn't hard enough on mages in his eyes? Did not this very same overseer of the templars also try to commit genocide in Asunder because of prejudice? (granted, some mages weren't making the problems go away either, all sides have guilty parties) We need a watchdog and oveseer of the templars not affiliated with the chantry. At all.

Or even a new group with templar talents without the lyrium addiction (Alistair never ingested lyrium and can use templar talents without a problem, he didn't take his vows, and he said they only start taking lyrium once they take their vows. He also said it doesn't give templars their abilities, only makes them more effective....supposedly) and loyal to the crown. Not some chantry headquartered in another country should you live outside of Orlais.

That's how you solve the supposed 'mage issue'. Those clamouring for 'complete and total mage liberation' are just fanatical morons who refuse to accept the inherent dangers of magic and who have absolutely no perspective in regards as to just how comfortable a mage's life is in comparison to the common man.

You'll only find the hardcore libertarians are calling for complete liberation. I can't think of a single mage supporter here on the forums calling for that. Merely for Circle reformation.

[MichaelFinnegan]

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...

[quote]GavrielKay wrote...

Rich mages[/quote]

Do not live among the people, they live among the Circle like everybody else. They have an entire fraternity devoted to commerce.[/quote]
A fraternity in the Circles for rich mages dedicated to commerce?  Which one is that?

[quote]
[quote]
apostates[/quote]

Dangerous and irresponsible, don't care for others and place every one in danger. Left to their own devices, they can cause untold destruction. Too many examples to list.[/quote]
Maybe you should list down a few examples....

[quote]
[quote]
Dalish mages[/quote]

Have limitations and restrictions, including ways to deal with abominations should it come to that (or they get wiped out and don't show up to the next gathering of the clans). Not a long term solution for every mage, only works cause Dalish are nomads and all know each other. There's no way to impose a limit of how many mages per group anywhere else.[/quote]
How does one impose such a limit, I wonder... Also I did not understand how the Dalish being nomadic has anything to do with it, unless you mean a Circle cannot exist since they move around a lot. But why assume they'd even want a Circle-like system in the first place?

In any case, there must have been a time before the Dales were forced out of their homes when they must have settled in numbers somewhere. Do we, in such cases, hear of systems such as the Circles being set up?

[quote]
[quote]
Rivaini seers, Chasind shamans[/quote]
Both dangerous and the people around them deal with possessions by viewing them as similar to natural disasters, not a solution which everyone would accept or tolerate.[/quote]
The point is perhaps just that? That there really is no single solution that everyone would accept or tolerate?

[quote]
[quote]
cirlces mages with special permission[/quote]
Mages who recieve special permission still keep in touch with the Circle and it's affairs. They aren't completely integrated into society. Wynne, Ines, Finn, ect are still "shackled", they're just given breathing room until they screw up or become a threat to society. [/quote]
Yes, guilty until proven innocent, right? Or, wait... was it the other way around? I easily get confused sometimes...

[quote]
Just a few more examples.

Grey Wardens are restricted to one mage at a time, Tevinter still takes away mage children and tutors them and has vigilant Templar (though they're more crooked to serve the magisters).

The idealist's world of mages coexisting with people is a pipe dream. [/quote]
Perhaps, perhaps not. It remains to be seen.

[Urzon]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

A fraternity in the Circles for rich mages dedicated to commerce?  Which one is that?

That would be the Lucrosians. They seem to be one of the smaller (if not the smallest) fraternities of the Circle, and they like to gather wealth and politcal influence. So, i'd imagine they work alot with the Formaris. Since, i'm sure that enchanted goods are very expensive. Not to mention, the tranquil Formaris allows them to run shops outside the Circles in major cities.

How does one impose such a limit, I wonder... Also I did not understand how the Dalish being nomadic has anything to do with it, unless you mean a Circle cannot exist since they move around a lot. But why assume they'd even want a Circle-like system in the first place?

The Dalish like to stick to only having two mages per clan (the Keeper and their First). If their is a surplus in one of the clans, they usually give them to another clan's Keepers that is in need of an First. Which is how Merrill became Marethari's First.

That and one of the many reason the Dalish are nomads (other than the mutual hatred between them and the humans and not having a land to call their own), is that the templars usually like to hunt down their Keepers and Firsts if they stay in an area to all.

Another unexplained mystery of Kirkwall, is how Marethari's clan was able to stay around for so long in the area.

Modifié par Urzon, 12 mai 2012 - 08:25 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

Urzon wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

A fraternity in the Circles for rich mages dedicated to commerce?  Which one is that?

That would be the Lucrosians. They seem to be one of the smaller (if not the smallest) fraternities of the Circle, and they like to gather wealth and politcal influence. So, i'd imagine they work alot with the Formaris. Since, i'm sure that enchanted goods are very expensive. Not to mention, the tranquil Formaris allows them to run shops outside the Circles in major cities.

How does one impose such a limit, I wonder... Also I did not understand how the Dalish being nomadic has anything to do with it, unless you mean a Circle cannot exist since they move around a lot. But why assume they'd even want a Circle-like system in the first place?

The Dalish like to stick to only having two mages per clan (the Keeper and their First). If their is a surplus in one of the clans, they usually give them to another clan's Keepers that is in need of an First. Which is how Merrill became Marethari's First.

Ah, I see. Thanks. I did not know.

[Rinshikai]

I know many my not agree with me on this, but if reforming the circle is to happen. The chantry needs to loose control over it.

Guardians will need to be around to watch over the Mages, but Templars have not shown that they are competent in this task. Integrity and a sense of duty is required, not blind devotion and divine right.

Overall I think that this task would better suited for the grey wardens. The reason I say this is because they are neutral. No loyalty to one group or land, they go through a ritual similar to the hallowing, and from what I have seen in DAOA and DA2 the wardens are trying to expand there influence to show that they are needed blight or not.

If they worked with a group like the collective they maybe able to create something along the lines of a school rather the a jail.

but that's just my view from what I have seen so far.

Modifié par Rinshikai, 12 mai 2012 - 05:44 .

[Dave of Canada]

Quick mobile phone post.

Hanz54321 wrote...

I think what you are getting at really comes down to Chantry corruption.  The Chantry needs to choose more level headed fighters for Templars and needs to quit addicting them to lyrium to control them as an army.
 

Lyrium increases the strength of their powers, weaker templars = stronger chance of them being overrun.

[Rinshikai]

You give a fair point of the wardens duty to battle the dark spawn, the main reason I point to them is that after playing through DAOA we learn that the first warden is trying to expand the wardens influence in order to prepare for the next blight.

I don't think that the chantry will be changing their methods or views anytime soon. Unless more Templar's like Greagoir, or the female Templar from Asunder become common place, but I don't see this happening. Even though they are more level headed they have absolute authority of the mages, which is more along the lines of a jailer the a guardian. Its unfortunate that most of the Templar's we see in DA2 don't appear to have a fear of repercussions for their actions. Had they many of the abuses my not have happened.

From my understanding these are some of the major problems with the Chantrys authority. Even when you have Justina trying reform the Circle. its not possible without the trust of those shes trying to help. As president Abraham Lincoln says " A house divided against itself can not stand." Justina may want to reform but she is not able to keep all the groups under her together. In the End she loses them all.

Modifié par Rinshikai, 21 mai 2012 - 06:29 .

[dragonflight288]

Lyrium increases the strength of their powers, weaker templars = stronger chance of them being overrun.

Or if you quote Alistair, maybe it doesn't even do that. But the Chantry feels completely justified getting templars addicted to lyrium. We don't know if it does or doesn't. But if in DA3 they do a spec for a templar if you're a warrior and gives you the choice to ingest lyrium to strengthen your templar abilities, or even learn new ones faster than conventional leveling up, I will happily believe it.

Actually that would be a cool thing to have. Choose to take a longer route to get all the templar capabilities, or swear service to the chantry and get the better ones sooner if lyrium actually does help improve their powers. We still have the option of being a templar, but we can choose if we're members of the chantry or not, and get holy smite sooner or something like that.