Next what I thought about was infrastructure. Denver was a dump in the 70s and early 80s. What'd they do? Urban renewal. REAL urban renewal. In Detroit urban renewal is to build a new ball park and leave the rest of the ghetto as is and pocket the money that was meant to fix up downtown. In Denver, very different. They deconstructed and reconstructed the entire downtown over a period of years making it beautiful, durable, and clean. Again, I noticed a stark contrast in attitude of the citizens. In one city it was a dump, so the citizens treated as such. In the other, it was well maintained, and as such folks treated it well.
Now this isn't an apples to apples comparison here. But infrastructure was the key theme that occured to me. In Thedas, is it really a good idea to build mage quarters of any sort in regions where the Veil is all tore up to pieces? Of course not. But Dragonflight has given us 2 perfect examples of just such a decision - Kirkwall and Fereldan. Codexes and notes abound all point toward major catastrophies and Veil-sundering phenomena occuring in these two places well before Circle Towers were ever put there. It's like the City Counsel of Detroit did the planning for these two facilities. No research, no real experts consulted - just pay somebody off to pick a spot and go for it. It's ridiculous. Kirkwall should have been evacuated and demolished for everybody. It's like the site of a nuclear meltdown - you can't put people there. Not unless you get a truly expert clean-up crew in there to repair the Veil. And that's not a job for a church - the Chantry. That's a job for the experts - Avernus and Company. The guy obviously had the knowledge to do it - he just needed a few adventureres to hold back a few demons to complete the job at Soldier's Peak.
Of course, by now I should be moving to my next paragraph. The topic of which is who makes decisions on where the Veil is torn and where it's not. Where it is safe to live and where it's not. Well first and foremost these need to be people of character with the public's best interest at heart. Again, not the Chantry. Obviously it would need to be some political people, some Templars who know a bit about defending against demons and magical phenomena. Oh, hey . . . but who really knows about magic? Yup - as I started getting into last paragraph - mages. Avernus can't be the only guy out there who knows how to close a tear in the Veil. Get a crew of mages on it with a crew of templars to kill any demons that try to stop the mages from cleaning things up.
So now what is forming are some ideas. 1) As Nizaris pointed out, lets get the Templars seperated out from the chantry (that's actually exactly where I as going with the Templars - thanks for jumping all over that and I still luv you too). Instead, Templars should be a specially trained cadre of city watch or guards or like a SWAT squad, but publicly visible. Get rid of this Chantry Army nonsense. 2) Mages need high placed positions in governance along side Teryns, Arls, Knight-Commanders, Generals, and diplomats. That way the decisions I've discussed and the ones I will later discuss can be made intelligently instead of based on religion and ignorance. Secret deals between parnoids like Loghain and lunatics like Uldred aren't really the best way to get things done. If there's an actual system in place, things would be less likely to de-evolve because there would be a larger body involved.
Anyway . . . I'll get to the Towers later. But for now - no more building on Veil-Torn sites until the nuclear clean-up has been organized and undertaken. Magically toxic waste dumps just pre-dispose the people living on them to turn all glowy-green and blow up.
*claps* Very nice, well thought-out response. Not completely done yet, I recognize, I'm going to take it point by point, like I said I would.
Now, I read the previous post, about the difference in attitudes of authority figures (the police) in Denver and Detroit. Makes reasonable sense and also adds a large factor to the sociology factor. I can't readily accept that the attitudes of the police are the only factor that changed things and made it safer. There's more to it. I know this because I live in a very small town and I hardly see any police at all. But no one in my small town of 5000 is afraid to leave their keys in the car. Their front doors are unlocked, and the crime rate is largely limited to the college campus.
Attitudes of the citizens, the general belief anf acceptance of others creates that situation where trust is easily given. We don't have much of a police presence because it isn't really needed.
What does this have to do with mages and templars, or your point? Pretty simple. While the templars and police make excellent analogies of each other, and the damage that can come with corruption among authority figures with swords (or guns), but it's also the citizenry that helps contribute to the attitudes. The environment may help shape the views, but people still have free will and can choose to shape their own environment as well. Even if it's getting out of Dodge.
But for the most part, I agree with your point. I just felt it was missing the human element outside of it. Prejudice and intolerance isn't strictly related to authority and religion. Those are simply major contributors.
As for the bit on infrastructure...makes sense. We watched a video in my sociology class on rebuilding the infrastructure of a downtown area in he 70's in Chicago. And for awhile, it was working. New shops were built, the local gangs got honest jobs and made a living (they were specifically hired to help rebuild, as a way to try and keep them from committing crimes, a form of prevention) and this one neighborhood's economy bloomed and it became a safe place to live.
Then a gang fight occured and someone was killed. The leader of the gang that helped rebuild the neighborhood was in the area, and the shooter was described with a build similar to his. There was no evidence linking him to the shooting, but he was arrested, and the whole rebuilding the infrastructure was shot. Within a few years, the once thriving neighborhood was reduced to a ghetto and gang infested street again, and crime was once again on the rise.
Is it merely coincidence or prejudice from those in power (and the jury) to make snap judgements without evidence because of a person's history (and his was shady. He
was a gang-leader)
So yes, the infrastructure is also important, as you said. And I have long argued that the templars needed to be removed from the Chantry and the lyrium addiction had to be removed entirely. It's debatable if lyrium actually is needed, but with Alistair having never taken his vows or ingested lyrium but was still able to use templar abilities, I'm leaning towards it not being needed. Whether or not it amplifies a templars abilities....jury is still out on that one for me. Until we get more lore on the subject, that's the best I can offer in regards to the templars abilities.
And your opinion that templars need to be a visible presence. I actually like that idea, so long as the templars aren't abusing their authority. I know not all templars do that and some take the charge of "protect the mages from the world, and the world from the mages" very seriously and try to be fair about it. But when we have the templar order's leaders, along with the Lord-High Seeker (whose supposed to oversee the templars) rebelling against the chantry because the Divine wanted to be more fair to the mages....I don't see many willingly giving up the authority or beliefs in Divine Right over mages. It's ingrained into their beliefs and has been for centuries. You'd have to disband the Templar Order in its entirety and train a new one to take its place, without that belief.
In Thedas, is it really a good idea to build mage quarters of any sort in regions where the Veil is all tore up to pieces? Of course not. But Dragonflight has given us 2 perfect examples of just such a decision - Kirkwall and Fereldan. Codexes and notes abound all point toward major catastrophies and Veil-sundering phenomena occuring in these two places well before Circle Towers were ever put there. It's like the City Counsel of Detroit did the planning for these two facilities. No research, no real experts consulted - just pay somebody off to pick a spot and go for it. It's ridiculous. Kirkwall should have been evacuated and demolished for everybody. It's like the site of a nuclear meltdown - you can't put people there. Not unless you get a truly expert clean-up crew in there to repair the Veil. And that's not a job for a church - the Chantry. That's a job for the experts - Avernus and Company. The guy obviously had the knowledge to do it - he just needed a few adventureres to hold back a few demons to complete the job at Soldier's Peak.
This paragraph stood out to me. I agree that building a Circle where the veil is torn or incredibly thin is incredibly stupid. It increases the risks of abominations, demons can more easily force their way through, etc. But at the same time, David Gaider said that the thinner a veil is, it also becomes that much easier to cast spells and practice magic. It creates a delicate balance that must be met.
Add in that magic isn't the only thing that can sunder the veil. The Brecillian Forest was a great battleground, and had been many times. Thousands died there and the veil weakened. Spirits came through and possessed the trees. Some possessed wolves and became werewolves. Witherfang was created by the summoning of a spirit and binding her into the body of a great wolf. Any time you have a huge battle, blood, violence, and death can tear the veil as well. No mages required. And when a demon comes through and is no longer in the Fade, the average Tim or Joe can just as easily be made an abomination as the mages. Gaider said in order to become an abomination,
it is required to make a deal with the demon...or to lose a battle of wills while in the Fade.
Mages are only unique in that they can enter the Fade conscious and aware. If someone says mages are at risk of possession every night they sleep (Somniari are, but they are special cases and most don't survive.) then so too is the average templar. Every race, save dwarves, go to the Fade every night to dream. The spirits and demons of the fade observe and shape these dreams. It's what potentially draws demons to the mortal world in the first place.
And when they're drawn to our world, they seek mages who are conscious in the fade, or for tears in the veil to force their way through in, and then possess whatever they come in contact with.
And so I'm back to the torn or weakened veil. Having a multitude of mages in that area increases the risk of possession, not only by mages, but non-mages when a demon breaks through. But the mages being set up anywhere, all their practicing of magic will eventually weaken the veil in that area and it would have to be strengthened again. It's true the mages are the most qualified for that, and the templars shouldn't be involved in that decision making process, save keeping demons off of the mages repairing the veil.
....wow, this is a complicated subject. But it's fun to discuss.
2) Mages need high placed positions in governance along side Teryns, Arls, Knight-Commanders, Generals, and diplomats.
I like this idea, but for the sake of argument (I'd honestly like to hear your answer to this) I'll play devil's advocate. What if the mage in power was corrupt, and used blood magic to influence the minds of the other leaders, all to increase their own influence? They don't attack anyone, they don't even control their political rivals. But rather, 'nudge' them as Avernus did to gather support for the rebellion?
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In downtown Denver, and honestly in the wealthier "Metro Detroit Area" I noticed that when there was a problem, the police knew how to put folks at ease. Again, they were clear in their purpose, but they didn't grab their nightsticks and start threatening to haul everyone off. In truth, I noted the few times I've seen the poice here and there act physically, there was no threatening or aggressive warning. It was polite but firm, polite butfirm, then BAM! I'm not ****in around on the ground now. Conversely, in the crappier areas of Detroit, any encounter with the police almost immediately begins with antagonism. Cops act like asses, the civilians mouth off, and pretty soon it's impossible to tell who created the problem, but the citizens always get the citation or arrested.
