1194 réponses à ce sujet

[Urzon]

"Are mages trying to indoctrinate the children of Thedas!?" at 6.

"Blood Mage Death Panels!" at 7.

"Radical spirit healers, who are they after now?" at 8.

"Pigeons. Innocent disease carrying birds? or... Shapeshifting Mage Spies?!" at 9.

[Reznore57]

Urzon wrote...

"Pigeons. Innocent disease carrying birds? or... Shapeshifting Mage Spies?!" at 9.

Ouh i like that one.It totaly needs an interview with Shale.She could join the templar and form a Killing pigeon shapeshifting mage Units.

[yaselvuz]

To be the viscount.

[dragonflight288]

Hanz

So many "yup, I'm with you there," and, "I disagree becauses" in your post alone is why I typicaly don't do these discussions on-line. By the time I finish responding to your response in order to clarify my position and have fun . . . the entire conversation has side tracked. But I liked your post and I'll add more as I go.

I understand. Online things can get convoluted fast. But for that very same reason, I have to respond as you post your responses fast, otherwise someone else will respond and it'll end up off topic. Online debates can be annoying like that. But I understand where it's coming from. I like your posts as well. They're very well thought out, and we can have a respectful discussion on the subject itself.

This gal is hilarious!

Fixed.

Nizaris

Meredith suspect Orsino hide some blood mages, and there are blood magic thingies at Orsino place, at the same time a bulding being blown up by Ander, that give the excuse for Meredith to invoke Right of Annulment

gorge.W.Bush suspect Saddam Hussein hiding Al Qaeda, and Iraq have a weapon of mass destruction, at that time WTC being blown up by Osama, that give an excuse to Gorge.W.Bush to declare War on Terror

Don't you guys see that?

Very....umm...interesting. Thing is, I go to video games to escape reality. It's a fictional world with its own fictional problems. I don't need them to compare to real life...except in Overlord 2, with that one noble demandinga bailout from the Overlord as he was conquering the capitol city. That was hilarious.

And this is probably going to be the only thing I mention in regards to this, but the biggest difference between what happened then and in the game, is that Anders acted alone, using the Champion while at the same time trying to keep him/her from getting involved. And Meredith forced the issue so all mages were involved. Bin Laden had an orginization working with him from the start.

Again, that's all I'm going to say on that subject. It's an unneeded controversy. I would like to keep the focus on the game, as it is. A game that we the fans can freely debate, and at the end of the day, nothing is lost because ultimately, it's just a game we all enjoy, or at least enjoy complaining about. lol.

[dragonflight288]

i just give a comparison, of course it is in a game, the story is about Templar vs Mage, but some do compare Templar with police, that is not accurate. They are more to US Army. And the story also resembles War on Terror, too much about it in fact.

I can capture the base story line the first time looking at it. It is so obvious. Even in DA:O i still can relate Mage resembles Muslims and Templar resembles US Army/Medieval Crusaders

Grey Warden is The Order of The Skull/322/Illuminati

I can relate everything in DA universe with real life

Just change these word in the game

Mage ---> Muslim
Templar ----> US Army
Blood Mage ----> Terrorist/Al Qaeda/Taliban/Mujahideen

You can see what i mean

.....okay? Quite frankly, comparing mages to muslims or templars to US army makes absolutely no sense to me. I know a few muslims myself, and they're genuinely cool people. I had a class with a foreign exchange student from Yemen. I go to church with a guy from Syria.

Quite frankly...I don't see it. I can see that you can compare it to real life, but the differences between the groups are so staggering to me personally that I just don't follow that line of logic.

Templars are templars, mages are mages. Muslims are like any other religion. You have genuine honest people who have their own beliefs and are willing to live and let-live. And then you have the zealots. Some are willing to kill. You'll find examples of such throughout history for EVERY religion. Even non-religios people. I know some of those, people who leave churches and become atheist, but for whatever reason, find themselves unable to leave religion alone either.

So from this point on, I'll be treating templars, mages, elves, dwarves, qunari, and whatever else in the Dragon Age universe as just that. In the Dragon Age Universe. I won't compare Dalish to the Scoi-tael from Witcher, and say they're both elves, so they are similar.

Completely different cultures and beliefs change what they may or may not be.

[Dave of Canada]

There's no real world parallels to Templar/Mages. doing so invites offense and confusion. Perhaps Godwin.

[Lazy Jer]

Dave of Canada wrote...

There's no real world parallels to Templar/Mages. doing so invites offense and confusion. Perhaps Godwin.

Which will also lead to someone telling you you're using Godwin's Law wrong.

[Reznore57]

Nizaris , the big difference is you ain't born muslim , it's a choice and being muslim doesn't make you dangerous.
Maybe you feel some injustice towards your religion , and it's fair .
But the mages/templars is not just "racism" for the sake of racism.
And i agree that some theme in Da are a bit of a reflection of real world problem but I really don't think it's been written to reflect this very special conflict you mentionned.
That's what you want to see in it , ...someone could pop up and say hey i think it's about the IRA...

Mages and templars thing is interesting to "study" specialy because you can take it out of our world perception ,it gives us the possibilty to look at this type of trouble without the baggage of our irl culture , let's keep it that way^^

[Reznore57]

I don't think you read what i wrote...
If you felt insulted i'm sorry it was not what i meant.

[Reznore57]

I've been to school with a lot of muslim , my cousin became muslim at the age of 20 so no people "with turban and beard " doesn't scare me .
I'm far more uncormfortable when there's group of teen acting like hyena or really drunk /depressed people, they tend to sit near me and tell me everything about how life sucks.

When i went to school there's been a lot of "bomb prank" , you know some jerk phone the school and everybody has to get out.Nobody took that seriously , even the teachers .
The only time i was scared is when there was a prank about a nuclear problem( there's nuclear electricity thing near where i live) everybody peed their pants and call their familly.

Anybody with a brain knows that being muslim (or being of any kind of religion) doesn't make you a terrorist.

And again being a mage =/= being muslim , being a mage ain't a religion and it does make you dangerous.

[Reznore57]

I'm not denying Islamphobia , i'm not denying that you may have suffered from it neither.
If this is what you want to see in Dragon Age , well it's up to you.
But saying that players that are pro templars are almost "racist" is very over the top.

And again a mage can be tricked and became possessed , and kill people againts his will.
I tend to see it as a mental disorder because I know some people with some (and parents calling an exorcist , for real...) .That's the way i personaly sometimes relate to it.
Doesn't mean that templars and mages are about people with mental disorder , the circle are asylum and templars are nurse ready with electroshocks.

[Ivucci]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Now see, Anders is inspired by the Fade spirit of...JUSTICE! What he do is to bring terror into the Templar heart. ... This spirit sometimes make him lost his mind. he bring terror to Kirkwall (and the world) because want to teach the Templar how it is living in fear...

I can't agree with that. There's absolutely no indication of Anders intending to unleash terror onto the world or "show the Templars how does it feel to live in fear". He never says that, he doesn't use fear as a leverage or weapon in any way, quite on the contrary, he condemns the practices that make mages feared in the first place.

Him using fear as a weapon would be going against every point he ever tried to make. In this respect, the comparison to terrorism doesn't work.

[Lazy Jer]

Anders, obstensibly, was trying to remove the possibility of compromise "Becasue there can be no compromise." According to his words. That being said his history of resentment towards the Circle and by extension the Chantry, compined with his association with Justice, which was corrupted when it joined with Anders, are primary factors as well.

Basically what I'm saying is that Anders may have had a lot of "reasons" bumping around his head for blowing up the Chantry, but there are more then a few subconcious reasons he did what he did.

[Dave of Canada]

Ivucci wrote...

Him using fear as a weapon would be going against every point he ever tried to make. In this respect, the comparison to terrorism doesn't work.

He destroys the Chantry to send a message across Thedas, to mages and non-mages alike. He's starting fear and panic in Kirkwall to incite rebellion / trigger Meredith's crackdown. He--including everyone else--knows that everybody is watching Kirkwall.

[TJX2045]

To me it was a no brainer to side with the mages. I believe the Circle is necessary but there are other examples of how mages and normal people can live in peace.

The Dalish have mages who know not to trust demons and do not use blood magic. Some have, but so have all other mages. There are always the bad apples in all bunches. Also bad templars who believe they are doing things in "the will of the Maker" are also to blame.

An example is Cullen. I have noticed this even more when I replayed it recently. He was in DA:O and right from the beginning if you converse with him enough you realize how much of a COWARD he was. In DA2, he wasn't being oppressive to the mages because they should be oppressed and "we cannot be their friends," he was doing it because he was scared out of his wits at what happened at the Ferelden Circle.

I understand there's a reason he was so terrified and he has all the reason in the world to be. Horrific things happened there. But even Greagoir, the Knight-Commander there, did not agree with Cullen's harsh judgment of the mages and saw he was reacting not out of Chantry law but out of fear and prejudice. In the end of DAO the Circle was restored to its former glory (if you sided with the Mages; I dunno how the outcome is if you side with the Templars for the rite). So guess what Cullen does? He goes to a place where mages are even more oppressed where he can continue to justify his fear and hatred after what happened: Kirkwall.

Even though Greagoir pissed me off some in DAO when I played the Magi origin, I still respected him and knew that he did what he felt was best and they were doing well. The problem is the whole reason the Circle event happened was because mages wanted their freedom (shock). They may not have been oppressed too much by all Templars, but throw in mages similar to how Cullen is now and the new ones who are terrified of the "possible" monster even after many mages survive their Harrowing and never fall to the temptation of demons and you're sure to have quite a few mages driven crazy. Funny thing is it was only a few of those mages and, even though they did a lot of damage, the other mages fought against them and survived or fought the demons and the temptation and died trying to protect themselves and also protecting others from the consequences.