187 réponses à ce sujet

[suprhomre]

I don't care anymore I just want a real ending. I feel cheated if this was planned from day one to dig our pocket for more money, like planning to release the ending in a dlc. Company needs to treat their customer and fans more fairly. If I buy a game I want to get 100% of it not 90%. I shouldn't have to pay extra for the rest of the 10%. Expansion packs and dlc are suppose to be extra content which you can be without. By taking away the ending of ME3. EA/BioWare force me as consumer of this franchise to buy more. This is cheap and goes against all kind of business ethic. It only enhance the rumours of EA being greedy.

[hwf]

Both can work just fine.

If the indoctrination theory is correct any additional "clarification content" that Bioware releases will be appended to the game right after the RGB choice.
Who knows, maybe they'll use the Dark Energy plot for the next trilogy of Mass Effect.

[ZombifiedJake]

Indoctrination can't be used on it's own.

I'd pick the dark energy ending, despite it being far from perfect.

[Drake-Shepard]

Probably already mentioned but indoc theory is not an ending. It is the moments just before the end... i am assuming...

But the definition of crucible is ''A place or occasion of severe test or trial''. So maybe indoc theory was the test. :s

The conduit was infact a conduit after all

[OdanUrr]

xsdob wrote...

Does one star out of the whole galaxy really constitiute as a foreshadowing?

Not even close, it would still need more exposition.

[Zubi Fett]

I agree with dark energy theory. I would have prefer that much more.

[Oldbones2]

The dark energy ending (as it was in planned) would have been awesome. Exactly what Bioware was going for, bittersweet, tragic, a truly difficult choice that would have really highlighted our insignificance in the universe. It builds on themes interwoven throughout the first two games. It would have been epic.

While I respect the Indoctrination theory, and its rather (cough) enthusiastic proponents. I can't bring myself to believe it. It also builds on themes throughout the whole series. Furthermore if this had been the original intent, then I would have fallen to my knees in awe. Bioware would have created the ultimate experience. Beyond Gaming, beyond Meta-Gaming. True immersion in a story for the first time in our history. It would have been historic.

But they didn't intend that, which makes it a rather sad cop out to claim it now.

But at this point if Bioware is going to HAVE to use one of these two to fix the utter crap we have now, I'd go with Indoctrination. Dark energy needed more buildup in the third game to work and its just not there right now.

[AnthonyDraft]

Both ideas are believable.

Modifié par AnthonyDraft, 27 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[XiaShou]

i just read the Dark Energy thing, with good explanation this could have been an awesome ending..

[DreamTension]

I like both. There's still a good chance it can be both. Right?

[OdanUrr]

Han Shot First wrote...

Through three games the player was practically hit over the head with the fact that the Geth weren't evil, that they were the victims in the Morning War, and that all they wanted with the Quarians was peace.

(...)

If the writers wanted to make it so that organics and synthetics could never peacefully coexist, that should have been the theme for three games. 

If you think about it for a second, we have here the same situation we had in DA2. The Catalyst makes us ponder the question of whether synthetics, just for being synthetics, will always turn against their creators. The Catalyst is sure this will happen every time and has created the Reapers as a solution.

DA2 tries to beat us over the head with the Templar vs. Mage conflict and strongly suggests that every mage will turn to evil (become a blood mage, demon, whatever), for the sole reason of being a mage. As a result, the only definitive solution is Annulment.

Of course, the funny thing is that, while the Templar solution punishes only the subject of their flawed logic (the mages), the Catalyst's solution punishes the creators, not the created.

In any event, neither game convinced me that either the Templars or the Catalyst were right, mainly because their statements were absolute and didn't broker doubt of any kind. DA2 was worse, if possible, because it insisted, very thoroughly I might add, in portraying all mages as deranged or turning to mind-boggingly stupid solutions if backed into a corner.

Bottomline, ME3 reminded me of DA2's failings. Not a very pleasant thought.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 27 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[Getorex]

Both, I suppose (don't like the indoc thing in general). Indoc would allow an expansion on the ending that requires no actual change to the current ending code so...and the dark energy thing could be used to introduce an open-ended new threat that IS greater than the Reapers and be part of any future ME games.

Without Reapers, there's no villian or threat that can equal them for possible future games. It is a MEGA downer to go from defeating the Reapers in series 1 and then go to ... err...beating bands of terrorists or pirates. Oooooh. Scary.

The dark energy story could make a much bigger threat (used to great effect in Stephen Baxter's monstrously epic scifi novel "Ring" - monstrously epic in that is spans billions of years AND billions of lightyears).

Modifié par Getorex, 27 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[Richard 060]

I'd have preferred something else - something that doesn't undermine the stark, brutal machine logic of the Reapers (as stated since Sovereign in ME1) in favour of a last-minute 'twist', be it 'Indoctrination', 'the Catalyst', or 'Dark Energy'...


Something like this:

HARBINGER, not the Star-Child, as the final enemy, presents Shepard with a choice, as is only fair for getting so far in defiance of the cycle. The options:

- 'Control': Accept that ultimately, the cycle must continue to guarantee that organic life continues in some form or other. Without the Reapers to control the development and advancement of organics, there is the possibility that organics completely destroy each other. In short, better to life to be preserved by the Reapers than risk all life rendering itself extinct.

- 'Destroy': Shepard exacts his promise and destroys all Reaper tech, burning out the Citadel and Mass Relays in the process and rendering them useless. Life is now free of the cycle and can determine it's own destiny, at the cost of all the benefits of the Mass Relays. Furthermore, the Reapers believe that without them, organics are now open to the possibility of unchecked chaos and self-destruction. Is the right to exercise free will worth the possible cost, and just how dependant is the universe on Reaper technology after all these millennia?


IMO, that's a much better scenario, since it doesn't commit the cardinal sin of serial fiction - undermining the premise that your entire first installment (which is always the most important, since it's what defines the series - disregard it at your peril...). Plus, it underlines the real defining theme of Mass Effect - CHOICE. Not just Shepard's choices, but those of you, the player.

Honestly, if BioWare was trying to make some kind of philosophical message with the Catalyst ending, how much better would it have been to have a meta-textual statement on the nature of free will and personal decisions having much larger effects (mass effects, even - ha!)?


Y'know, I'm tempted to flesh this one out in full (including things like paragon/renegade versions, factoring in reputation, and then using EMS as a way of determining how well the allied forces have fared against the Reapers - with each version having it's own specific cutscene. Any thoughts?

Modifié par Richard 060, 27 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[thehomeworld]

But Harbi shouldn't present the destroy option either he should only give shep the option of hybrid or the reapers controlling him shep should be the one to go FU Harbi and destroy them in some manner no bad guy ever should give their antagonist the option to control them or destroy them no one ever would do that its shep's job to destroy them on his own or if he teams up with Cerberus attempt to control them shep's antagonist should never ever give him the option of control or destroy only say you'll willingly become like Saren or your kind will die right now.


Right now the whole situation of control, hybrid, and destroy looks like this:

Your town has exploded with a bloodthirsty gang who is causing super chaos and murdering people you run into a house to and find the gang's leader in there who then presents YOU with 1 of 3 options you can take his gun and take him hostage and demand the gang leave your town, you can sign up with him and be the first to join with the gang and convince the rest of your town to do the same, or you can take his gun and kill him and the gang will stop killing your town's people too. See how ridiculous this sounds? Why the hell would an antagonist do this for anybody? Starchild, Harbi, I dont' care who shouldn't be handing out these options.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 27 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[AxisEvolve]

Dark Energy isn't perfect but it would have been better. If for no other reason than to remain consistent. You can hear numerous references building up to the Dark Energy ending in the 2nd game... and then nothing. However, Indoctrination theory is both interesting and acceptable. But I do not believe it.

[masterthehero]

Is it too much to ask that Shepard just manages to defeat or be defeated by the reapers?

Indoctrination, Dark Energy, I don't care about any of that crap. I want my Shepard to have successfully destroyed the reapers and settle down with his lady Ashley, but still leave certain questions lingering in order to continue the Mass Effect universe.

Let me see what happened to my surviving squadmates and enjoy a fully fleshed out conclusion to Shepard. Whether he overcomes indoctrination or ended up falling unconscious when the beam hit, I just want a clear cut Shepard won or lost. Leave the questions for the sequels, but allow my Shepard to rest in peace.

[CroGamer002]

Both are worse then this current endings, which makes me really depressed.


Current endings are awful, but could have done it way worse. In fact, they planned to make it even worse.

[Zubi Fett]

I have no problem with the reason of the reapers to do what they do. My problem is that ALL ending have great sorrow.

On the other hand(I read this in this forum), why the hell didn't the catalyst activate the citadel instead of Sovereign trying it.

[AlanC9]

Oldbones2 wrote...

The dark energy ending (as it was in planned) would have been awesome. Exactly what Bioware was going for, bittersweet, tragic, a truly difficult choice that would have really highlighted our insignificance in the universe. It builds on themes interwoven throughout the first two games. It would have been epic.

It would also have pissed off almost as many people as the current ending does. An ending that "highlighted our insignificance in the universe" would have been intolerable to a lot of posters here.

Doesn't make it a bad ending, though.

[Getorex]

masterthehero wrote...

Is it too much to ask that Shepard just manages to defeat or be defeated by the reapers?

Indoctrination, Dark Energy, I don't care about any of that crap. I want my Shepard to have successfully destroyed the reapers and settle down with his lady Ashley, but still leave certain questions lingering in order to continue the Mass Effect universe.

Let me see what happened to my surviving squadmates and enjoy a fully fleshed out conclusion to Shepard. Whether he overcomes indoctrination or ended up falling unconscious when the beam hit, I just want a clear cut Shepard won or lost. Leave the questions for the sequels, but allow my Shepard to rest in peace.

No.  Having Dark Energy in place allows Shepard to deal with the Reapers one way or another in the first Mass Effect series AND it leaves in place another, longer-term threat that is vastly larger than the Reapers, for a possible future Mass Effect series to deal with.  It does it all.  

The Reapers turn out to be good guys, of a sort, but simply not to the victim organics - but ultmately what they are doing is to save the galaxy (universe?) for organics AND synthetics in general.  If the Reapers ultimately lose that fight, then organics and synthetics both have no future at all (down the line...you could be talking about a Dark Energy threat that would play out its end-game in a million (or millions) years.  The Reapers have already been around for millions building up to do their fight, harvesting organics as part of it, so a threat that is still millions of years away is nothing to them.  

A big story gets bigger still - allows for future games but does't require them.  With or without Shepard, though probably without as you would likely want to place it some fairly long time post-Shepard story.

Modifié par Getorex, 27 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[mumatil]

How about both?

Shepard survives the indoctrination using the right choice in the DLC. They find out something about dark energy and have 1 or 2 new missions to finally kill the retreating reapers or something.

Meh.

I like the indoctrination twist myself. But yeah it leaves the whole dark energy foreshadowing blank. And I hate unused foreshadowing.

[OdanUrr]

mumatil wrote...

How about both?

Overkill, mate.

[Getorex]

OdanUrr wrote...

mumatil wrote...

How about both?

Overkill, mate.

Not really.  You merely take the Dark Energy thing further from ME2.  They already introduced it so this brings it out more (and sets up future Mass Effect universe games).

You still deal with the Reapers THIS series.  It just gives them and us a possible future series too.

[Getorex]

My ending with the Reaper Harbinger actually conversing with Shepard rather than just railroading him as if he is a fly:

The Reapers were created by an advanced organic race that has long since vanished (Tens of millions of years ago). This organic race advanced to a stage beyond even that of the most advanced organic species today or in any other previous cycle. They discovered a threat to all life, organic or synthetic, involving Dark Energy. They built the Reapers to ultimately deal with it. The Reapers are to harvest advanced species at or near their prime, take in their strengths and best aspects, and in so doing make themselves stronger. The harvested races are catalogued and their civilizations are stored, protected, and incorporated into the Reapers, adding up with each cycle. Each cycle makes the Reapers stronger and greater still. Their creators sacrificed their own civilization, themselves, to start the Reaper cycle going.

Harbinger deigns to speak to this organic because he recognizes something in him/her that is an echo of their own creators. He tells Shepard this and asks him a question: "When you plow a field in preparation for planting crops, do you concern yourself with the grains of soil you disturb? Do you avoid disturbing the various insects, bacteria, fungi that make that soil home?

Dark energy is being used as a plow by a race of being of unimaginable scale and power. They do not see even the greatest organic race. They did not see the creators of the Reapers. They were but grains of soil in the field to them. Even now, after many many cycles of Reaping, as great as we Reapers have become, they barely notice us at all. We are an ant in the soil of their field. This use of dark energy threatens the existence of organic and synthetic alike. If it proceeds to the end, any existence in the galaxy, perhaps many others, will be impossible. Even stars will be impossible.

You organics concern yourselves with vanishing short timespans. You concern yourselves with hundreds or even thousands of years. We have existed for tens of millions of years and we concern ourselves with timespans of tens and even hundreds of millions of years. Most organics eliminate themselves before they reach the level of civilization of our creators. Most before they are ever able to build mass relays. Those that do reach an advanced state eliminate themselves as well. We have provided the relays and the technology to guide you to this level, to help you attain a peak before you can destroy yourselves and harvest you at your best. We must make ourselves more than just insects barely noticed by these dark energy using beings. We must reach a state where they will notice us an hear us. A state where they WILL perhaps concern themselves with our fate and stop this plowing of the field before it is too late. The danger is still millions of years off but it grows with each passing millenium.

Your concerns with your brief flash of advanced civilization is but a trifle to us who think on terms of millions of years. Your concern for your own small survival now is nothing compared to the survival of even the possibility of life itself. That is our reason, that is our purpose."

Now, defeating the Reapers or causing them to pause, becomes a not so black and white issue. Perhaps they are too powerful for them to defeat and the best they can do is delay them. If Shepard does stop or delay them, organics have to start concerning themselves with the threat the Reapers were created to deal with. Big sh*t.

[JexyG]

I THOUGHT it was going to be dark energy anyway since how it was talked about in ME2! THAT would have made sense at least!