241 réponses à ce sujet

[Star fury]

eddieoctane wrote...


Well, Canada is a commonwealth country. Maybe if we could get William or Harry on our side....

Exactly! Do princes play video games?

[LPPrince]

Star fury wrote...
Exactly! Do princes play video games?

You're talking to an actual one.

[Wowlock]

We can name many examples for this. Sadly these won't change some people's minds as they are dead-set on looking down on us.

All I can say is, I know what I look for in ART and the GAMES. I don't go double-mouth something I say and my concience is clear since I am clearly displeased and voicing my problems....

When you defend your irresponsible act with a cheap ART defense....well what about your concience ? If being a hypocrite makes you sleep well at night, I have no other words for you.

That's how I feel. And yes, I agree that this is more about ''Pride'' than art. After all the hype, and ''good scores'' ...they cannot accept that they messed up THIS bad. Which in turn, hurts them the most.

[GoblinSapper]

Sparatus wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...
Isn't there some sort of TV show from the 80s that went back and changed an entire season because the fans reacted badly to killing off a character? Dallas? Texas? Austin? Something like that? I recall it being mentioned before.

Dallas. The entire season was a dream.

To clarify Dallas:

The director of the series changed. The original director, who had left the series previously, returned after his replacement (who had killed the aforementioned character) left the show. The new director then made the entire previous season a dream, undoing a great deal of character development and of course, reviving the character and making the drama up to that point meaningless.

It is widely reguarded as one of the worst plot devices ever and the series tanked shortly after as a direct result.

[MrRiadon]

Simple, Bioware pays websites which indoctrinate stupid people into believing that its work cannot be changed due to "artistic integrity", and that those who believe it should be changed are entitled hellspawn.

Modifié par MrRiadon, 25 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[Shloader]

Potent point, OP, especially with various quotes from Casey Hudson and other lead creators. On one side we have examples of great works of art slightly altered to accommodate fans or simply tidy up plot holes (my favorite being the first four Dark Tower books). On the other side we have Mr. Hudson telling us we will not get an A, B, C ending. There's no true need to not leave the content of the ending entirely intact. However I don't think anyone's immortal soul will be compromised in an effort to make what Mr. Hudson and others said about having wildly different endings become a true statement. Expand upon it. No need for specific wants so long as this quote becomes true.

Interviewer:
[Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson:
“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a
lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

Best thread I've read, probably because it hasn't been sabotaged by flaming and BioWare abusing.

Modifié par Shloader, 25 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[The Wumpus]

Pardon me for asking, but to clarify, has anyone from Bioware actually said "We're not changing anything because of our artistic integrity," or is that just something other people have said?

Also, pardon me if it's been mentioned already, but Stephen King also rewrote the first Dark Tower book to match the later books in the series. He also put out a revised edition of The Stand around the time of the miniseries. And I remember Mary Shelley made at least a few minor stylistic tweaks to Frankenstein.

[eddieoctane]

The Wumpus wrote...

Pardon me for asking, but to clarify, has anyone from Bioware actually said "We're not changing anything because of our artistic integrity," or is that just something other people have said?

Also, pardon me if it's been mentioned already, but Stephen King also rewrote the first Dark Tower book to match the later books in the series. He also put out a revised edition of The Stand around the time of the miniseries. And I remember Mary Shelley made at least a few minor stylistic tweaks to Frankenstein.

Well, they've said both things independently of each other so may times that it's hard to tell anymore. But their point is nonetheless clear. They believe in their "artistic vision" (although I firmly believe it's up to the audience to determine art) and they have no intention of alterning the ending in any way.

[IronVanguard]

Dominator24 wrote...

Larg_Kellein wrote...

Lanceare wrote...

syroz wrote...

CDprojekt is the new bioware, they really rocks. If only they could do some SF

They are working on a new Sci-Fi IP alongside the Witcher series. I can't wait!

Ooooh, now that is interesting. I enjoyed TW and TW2 ok, but the fantasy setting is really a very, very distant second place to sci-fi for me. Will also be interesting to see how they deal with creating their own universe, since with the witcher they've enherited a *very* detailed setting from the books.

That's one thing Bioware's always done well, despite my misgivings about what they've done to the ME universe.

Oh that is something I didn't knew.
I love Witcher 1&2 and (I loved it even before it was in game form).The second game was just superb.

CDProject maikng a Sci-Fi is (if its true) like a dream come true. I'd love to see what they can do in othere setings, I just hope the tone will stay as grim down to earth as it was in Witcher( I don't want no cookie cuter)

Yeah, that would be amazing.

[atheelogos]

Lanceare wrote...

J. R. R. Tolkien released several iterations of The Lord of the Rings in order to improve things, clarify and fix problems. He also went back and rewrote parts of The Hobbit years later in order to bring it in line with the Lord of the Rings (i.e. fix plot holes and provide foreshadowing for the LotR). The version of The Hobbit we have now is not the version that was originally published, and it's better for it.

Eight years after killing off Sherlock Holmes, Sir Aurthur Conan Doyle went back and retroactively un-killed him based on overwhelming fan feedback. Then he wrote 'The Hounds of the Baskervilles'. His work, and he, benefited greatly.

CD Project Red, the developer behind the amazing 'The Witcher' and 'The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings' (which were already excellent) have retroactively made major changes to both games; changed content, added content, changed and added dialog, changed and added cut-scenes - based on interaction with fans and their own artistic integrity and desire to make the best games possible.

In The Witcher 2 they have both added a new beginning to the game as well as changed/expanded the ending of the game, based upon fan feedback. And they've done it all at no cost to the player. If you bought the game, you get all updates to the game, all new content and DLC, for free.

As a result they have some really excellent games and have garnered a great deal of love from the community for having such integrity and love for the fans.

Fans and critics alike have praised CD Project Red for all of this. Yet over this issue with Bioware and Mass Effect 3 people do a 180 and claim that if they fix the problems with the very unworthy ending to ME3, they are somehow violating some 'artistic integrity'.

False. Hypocrites.

Mass Effect could be a masterpiece. Instead it is a very good series with a terrible ending. The right thing to do, for the integrity and legacy of the series and for the fans is to redo the ending of ME3 as well as fix a couple of other missteps in the game (the Rachni being present no matter what you do, Tali not getting a proper reveal, etc.).

After all, Bioware did this for the Mass Effect novel - Mass Effect: Deception. Or maybe they should have just left it full of plot holes and inconsistencies...

all good points there^_^

[TheDarkShape]

You don't see the difference between an artist changing his/her ending for creative reasons and an artist changing his/her ending because customers are upset and demand it?

[Wabajakka]

benj919 wrote...

Do not forget the book "mass effect:deception" which is obviously not art as bioware announced they are fixing the plot-holes... hypocrites indeed

Wow really? I wasn't aware. 

I really don't see their "artistic" argument stance at all then.

[ellcia]

TheDarkShape wrote...

You don't see the difference between an artist changing his/her ending for creative reasons and an artist changing his/her ending because customers are upset and demand it?

The customers are upset because the ending(s) is an exercise in bad writing, riddled with plot-holes, and completely nonsensical.
They are upset because, obvoiusly, they know the ME lore better than the people in charge of making the final 15 minutes of the game.
Introducing changes to, or simply expanding the ending will only do the story good.
Had JRR Tolkien lived in the times of e-democracy, who knows what would have happened if he'd finished his LotR like that: 
http://img535.images.../5116/rsauv.jpg 

[SCK barman]

 Erm...Wasn't this the reason given for putting Anders back into DA2 after id KILLED HIM 

[Lugaidster]

@OP You're making the same mistake that most gaming journalists are making when saying that changing the ending establishes a bad precedent. The decisions of an artist don't affect the decisions of other artists. Hypocrisy has nothing to do in this context when you use it like you are. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle can change his story all he wants, that doesn't mean that I should change mine. The opposite is also true, if Bioware doesn't change the ending because of whatever, that doesn't mean that the next studio shouldn't either.

If we all criticize the gaming journalists for creating irrelevant connections in Bioware's decision, we shouldn't create irrelevant connections either.

What this all means is that if Bioware changes the ending, they aren't affecting other developers or the industry like IGN and others imply, and if they don't change it, they aren't worse artists because of it. The only thing they should take into consideration here is that the endings suck, and the community wants a more fitting one. We'll see how they react.

Modifié par Lugaidster, 25 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[HenchxNarf]

TheDarkShape wrote...

You don't see the difference between an artist changing his/her ending for creative reasons and an artist changing his/her ending because customers are upset and demand it?

Of course they don't. Because to them, they don't care. They just want what they want, whoever created the story be damned. Because to them, it isn't concitered art because they buy it. They don't care who they screw over as long as they get what they want.

Even though, you know, the Smithsonian created a whole exhibit for Video Games in their art museum. But they're not art, right?

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 25 mars 2012 - 10:15 .

[ellcia]

HenchxNarf wrote...

TheDarkShape wrote...

You don't see the difference between an artist changing his/her ending for creative reasons and an artist changing his/her ending because customers are upset and demand it?

Of course they don't. Because to them, they don't care. They just want what they want, whoever created the story be damned. Because to them, it isn't concitered art because they buy it. They don't care who they screw over as long as they get what they want.

Even though, you know, the Smithsonian created a whole exhibit for Video Games in their art museum. But they're not art, right?

Since you've mentioned Art, maybe have a look at ME3 from the point of view of a literary scholar?
http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/