My question to Geoff is do Bioware or EA get a cut of the app sales?
I am a little cynical after IGNs influence on the game and getting one of there people in the game, and then we learned a Gametrailers journalist had full access to the development team and free reign to create a tell all app to sell...
Talk with Geoff Keighley, Author of The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3
Débuté par
GeoffKeighley
, mars 24 2012 05:24
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#452
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 09:29
stryker1138
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Geoff,
In the past, how often have you expressed interest to developers in doing a "Final Hours" type story, only to have your request politely declined? How concerned are you about future access to developers for this kind of story, given the response from fans to the information in your app? Has the spread of quotes like "lots of speculation for everyone" as anti-Bioware ammunition changed how you plan to present information to the public in the future?
In the past, how often have you expressed interest to developers in doing a "Final Hours" type story, only to have your request politely declined? How concerned are you about future access to developers for this kind of story, given the response from fans to the information in your app? Has the spread of quotes like "lots of speculation for everyone" as anti-Bioware ammunition changed how you plan to present information to the public in the future?
#453
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 09:33
Naltair
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First off thank you Geoff, for taking this time to answer questions and for the wonderful app, I bought it the day it came out and it was really wonderful. I enjoyed the insights to the team and the behind the scenes processes that you were able to share with the fans of the series. With that said I had a few questions but I also had some commentary on the responses and the overall lack of respect that some posters seem to have to the creative process at BioWare and to what your app is about.
The App
Overall I feel that your app was amazing, it provided candid insight into a process that for the most part is obfuscated from fans. I really enjoyed the fact that you covered the whole trilogy and gave us not only technical insights but a measure of the people behind this amazing series. I think we fans forget that behind the graphics, the story, and the choices; there are actual human beings who are working feverishly to create these kinds of games.
I really enjoyed the fact that they were willing to share what they chose not to include I the game, this is something many companies don’t often do for some obvious reasons in hindsight, especially after the reaction of the fans and by your own admission that people are using your work out of context to support their fan-generated agendas. I find this detrimental to future disclosure by other companies in the industry, or at least they may be more measured and careful about the dispersal of “cut” material. I find this saddening because it really does build a bridge between the gamer and the game developer and gives more understanding to what happens all throughout the design process.
With that said I found your app a pleasure to read and enjoy, and I look forward to the additional material in the near future.
The Fans
I understand the need to be fairly negative, many fans on BSN and across the internet are upset with the ending of the game but I think we need to understand that Geoff does not work for BioWare and therefore has no more insight than we do on the actual design process of the endings. I find it disheartening that people are only focusing on the end of the game and not on the actual App and what information it actually brings to the forefront. I am also disappointed that people are using his work as evidence, out of context, to support their various agendas to change the endings or slam BioWare.
I am not sure if he is able to answer all the questions but my educated guess is that, he can’t. I would also hazard that fans want to believe that somehow BioWare was under the gun to rush things and thus this contributed to the endings, but as Geoff stated, and myself having worked in similar fast paced technical career fields, it is a rare project that isn’t behind schedule due to any number of issues. The more complex the project the greater the chance of running behind; this is common across the industry. Time and money are not infinite resources, these people at BioWare poured in some cases nearly a decade of their life into this trilogy, I highly doubt they wanted to create something terrible people would hate. It is my assessment that they had a vision, butnot every vision is going to be well received.
Like Geoff I too hope the ending is not totally redone, but we shall see in time.
In short though I hope the fans can respect Geoff’s work for what it is, and understand that he isn’t a shill for BioWare but a journalist who wanted to give people an insight into one of the most popular franchises of this generation. I highly recommend it for any fan, because it gives you insight into so much about the games and the people behind it, plus it is only $3.
My Questions
Geoff through the course of your interviews/research, were there any details that were removed from the game that you felt were surprising, i.e. that was a fantastic idea how could you get rid of that?
Given the fan backlash, including the usage of your work in said backlash, what is your take on how the industry is observing this situation? Meaning do you think that this fallout from the endings may make other big name companies be less “experimental” or do you think this will have little impact overall?
The App
Overall I feel that your app was amazing, it provided candid insight into a process that for the most part is obfuscated from fans. I really enjoyed the fact that you covered the whole trilogy and gave us not only technical insights but a measure of the people behind this amazing series. I think we fans forget that behind the graphics, the story, and the choices; there are actual human beings who are working feverishly to create these kinds of games.
I really enjoyed the fact that they were willing to share what they chose not to include I the game, this is something many companies don’t often do for some obvious reasons in hindsight, especially after the reaction of the fans and by your own admission that people are using your work out of context to support their fan-generated agendas. I find this detrimental to future disclosure by other companies in the industry, or at least they may be more measured and careful about the dispersal of “cut” material. I find this saddening because it really does build a bridge between the gamer and the game developer and gives more understanding to what happens all throughout the design process.
With that said I found your app a pleasure to read and enjoy, and I look forward to the additional material in the near future.
The Fans
I understand the need to be fairly negative, many fans on BSN and across the internet are upset with the ending of the game but I think we need to understand that Geoff does not work for BioWare and therefore has no more insight than we do on the actual design process of the endings. I find it disheartening that people are only focusing on the end of the game and not on the actual App and what information it actually brings to the forefront. I am also disappointed that people are using his work as evidence, out of context, to support their various agendas to change the endings or slam BioWare.
I am not sure if he is able to answer all the questions but my educated guess is that, he can’t. I would also hazard that fans want to believe that somehow BioWare was under the gun to rush things and thus this contributed to the endings, but as Geoff stated, and myself having worked in similar fast paced technical career fields, it is a rare project that isn’t behind schedule due to any number of issues. The more complex the project the greater the chance of running behind; this is common across the industry. Time and money are not infinite resources, these people at BioWare poured in some cases nearly a decade of their life into this trilogy, I highly doubt they wanted to create something terrible people would hate. It is my assessment that they had a vision, butnot every vision is going to be well received.
Like Geoff I too hope the ending is not totally redone, but we shall see in time.
In short though I hope the fans can respect Geoff’s work for what it is, and understand that he isn’t a shill for BioWare but a journalist who wanted to give people an insight into one of the most popular franchises of this generation. I highly recommend it for any fan, because it gives you insight into so much about the games and the people behind it, plus it is only $3.
My Questions
Geoff through the course of your interviews/research, were there any details that were removed from the game that you felt were surprising, i.e. that was a fantastic idea how could you get rid of that?
Given the fan backlash, including the usage of your work in said backlash, what is your take on how the industry is observing this situation? Meaning do you think that this fallout from the endings may make other big name companies be less “experimental” or do you think this will have little impact overall?
Modifié par Naltair, 25 mars 2012 - 09:35 .
#454
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 09:37
Naltair
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What influence? They got one person to be in the game, Jessica Chobot.CRISIS1717 wrote...
My question to Geoff is do Bioware or EA get a cut of the app sales?
I am a little cynical after IGNs influence on the game and getting one of there people in the game, and then we learned a Gametrailers journalist had full access to the development team and free reign to create a tell all app to sell...
He has done a similar app for Portal 2, cut the conspiracy.
#455
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 10:16
MrFob
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Hi Geoff, not sure if you saw my earlier post (I am going to repost it below). It would really be great if you could comment on that. I understand however, if you won't/can't; just making sure it wasn't overlooked. Thanks again.
MrFob wrote...
Wow, thanks for the candid and insightful answers. Great thread.
Pretty much everything I wanted to know has already been asked by others so I am just going to say "Thank you" for the time and effort.
EDIT: Oh, maybe one question: At the time of your visits to BW, were you aware of BW's earlier press statements like "There won't just be an A,B,C ending", etc.? If so, did you feel (knowing in advance what the ending would be like) that there were some discrepancies between the press statements and the actual situation? Did you get a chance to ask the devs about that?
EDIT2: Link to a summary of a couple of such statements.
#456
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 10:57
lanep25
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lanep25 wrote...
@Geoff - 1. What is your favorite Harbinger line in Mass Effect 3?
2. What was your (honest and truthful ) reaction when you finished your Mass Effect 3 game? Describe some of your feelings associated with that reaction.
2a. If you felt unhappy about the ending, what specific things were you unhappy about?
3. Do you feel sorry for color blind people who only get one ending when playing ME3?
4. Have you received any information on why Bioware thought it would be a good idea to only change colors for the 3 same endings?
5. Has Bioware explained how it is that synthetics have DNA?
^This
#457
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:21
Bishop Cruz
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@Geoff here's a non ending related question for you. It's more on the process of the game. Who sets how much development time ME3 would have? Did Bioware say, we can do this in two years give or take a month or two? Did EA tell Bioware that the game would have to be done by X date? Or is it more like EA wants the game out around a certain time, and Bioware says, "yeah, that seems feasible."
DA2 had a pretty strict development cycle, and ME3's wasn't quite so rushed. Who sets how long each game gets?
Thanks again for answering questions.
DA2 had a pretty strict development cycle, and ME3's wasn't quite so rushed. Who sets how long each game gets?
Thanks again for answering questions.
#458
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:24
daisekihan
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Okay, since my last question got ignored, I'll try another. I'll try to be less open ended in this one.
As a gaming journalist, do you feel the gaming media's coverage of fan reaction to the endings has fairly portrayed ME fans?
I have one other question which may seem a bit harsh, but I'm going to ask it, but I really am asking it hoping for an honest answer: as a gaming journalist, how would you address the criticism that the gaming media's relationship with game companies is a bit too cozy, even compared the coverage of other entertainment mediums like movies or music in their respective journalistic outlets?
For example, when Chris Priestly said in this very post "Treat him as well as you'd treat me. No wait. Treat him much better than that." I studied journalism for my first year of college before switching to education, but based on what I read and learned in that time, I have to say that this comes off as a corporate spokesman fawning over a journalist who is covering his company's product. And while I did purchase the app and found it very interesting, it left me with the overall feeling that Game Informer and similar gaming news outlets leave me with --- that I'm reading a very well put together PR leaflet, even though the category the app is filed under is News.
I just want to add that this is in no way a personal attack on you. But I feel that many fans of ME, and indeed many gamers of all kinds, share these concerns about the gaming media --- however, many of them air these concerns in oft-repeated and nonconstructive diatribes about gaming journalists being literally paid off for good press. I am trying to raise the level of discourse on the topic while still expressing what I feel are legitimate concerns, and I hope that you will not take offense (if you manage to find this post buried among the hundreds).
As a gaming journalist, do you feel the gaming media's coverage of fan reaction to the endings has fairly portrayed ME fans?
I have one other question which may seem a bit harsh, but I'm going to ask it, but I really am asking it hoping for an honest answer: as a gaming journalist, how would you address the criticism that the gaming media's relationship with game companies is a bit too cozy, even compared the coverage of other entertainment mediums like movies or music in their respective journalistic outlets?
For example, when Chris Priestly said in this very post "Treat him as well as you'd treat me. No wait. Treat him much better than that." I studied journalism for my first year of college before switching to education, but based on what I read and learned in that time, I have to say that this comes off as a corporate spokesman fawning over a journalist who is covering his company's product. And while I did purchase the app and found it very interesting, it left me with the overall feeling that Game Informer and similar gaming news outlets leave me with --- that I'm reading a very well put together PR leaflet, even though the category the app is filed under is News.
I just want to add that this is in no way a personal attack on you. But I feel that many fans of ME, and indeed many gamers of all kinds, share these concerns about the gaming media --- however, many of them air these concerns in oft-repeated and nonconstructive diatribes about gaming journalists being literally paid off for good press. I am trying to raise the level of discourse on the topic while still expressing what I feel are legitimate concerns, and I hope that you will not take offense (if you manage to find this post buried among the hundreds).
Modifié par daisekihan, 25 mars 2012 - 11:26 .
#459
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:38
Naltair
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I didn't see it as fawning, did you see some of the first posts in this thread? BSN is notoriously bad at being civil and Chris Priestly, rightly so poked fun at that reputation by using himself as the subject of that joke you mentioned. He isn't fawning he is simply stating that people should recognize that Geoff is here at his own volition and is going out of his way to have discourse with fans that have purchased his app and clarify elements that either were unclear or add further insight to his work.daisekihan wrote...
I have one other question which may seem a bit harsh, but I'm going to ask it, but I really am asking it hoping for an honest answer: as a gaming journalist, how would you address the criticism that the gaming media's relationship with game companies is a bit too cozy, even compared the coverage of other entertainment mediums like movies or music in their respective journalistic outlets?
For example, when Chris Priestly said in this very post "Treat him as well as you'd treat me. No wait. Treat him much better than that." I studied journalism for my first year of college before switching to education, but based on what I read and learned in that time, I have to say that this comes off as a corporate spokesman fawning over a journalist who is covering his company's product. And while I did purchase the app and found it very interesting, it left me with the overall feeling that Game Informer and similar gaming news outlets leave me with --- that I'm reading a very well put together PR leaflet, even though the category the app is filed under is News.
#460
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:39
Lexagg
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Report and move on. I'm pretty sure impersonating BioWare employees goes against at least some forum rule.
#461
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:41
Naltair
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Umm a few things, Geoff Keighley does not wrok for BioWare. This is the real person behind that account and he has answered a variety of questions already. Please do some curosry research before blathering such nonsense.Lexagg wrote...
Report and move on. I'm pretty sure impersonating BioWare employees goes against at least some forum rule.
#462
Posté 25 mars 2012 - 11:51
metamorphyse
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great app,... needs a bit more ME3 in there though, you seemed to be going around ME3 instead of in it, But i finally know how Bioware ended up like this, and that its nerve racking making a game with a time limit.... and that fans expect too much
the app really needed some interviews with more people that helped work on the game, less biography, more recent and during ME3 making (of course without spoilers to future ME3 content)
the app really needed some interviews with more people that helped work on the game, less biography, more recent and during ME3 making (of course without spoilers to future ME3 content)
#463
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 12:01
Saku39
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GeoffKeighley wrote...
Saku39 - Are you serious? Create "real life consequences" for whoever wrote the ending? You may not like how the game ended, but like any form of creative expression we have to respect the artists behind the game....and all the amazing work they did on the series overall.
Oh, yes, I'm absolutely serious. In most industries, a mistake of these proportions would result in someone being fired. Who is going to be fired, Geoff? Who is responsible for the ending we recieved, which polls around 4 percent positive among BioWare's customers? Was it Mac Walters? Was it Hudson? Was it both? What is the full name of the person who ultimately approved the end sequence dialogue? Why has that person not been fired?
No, I DON'T have to respect the artists behind the game. Is that rule written down somewhere? Perhaps you should speak to my attorney. The artists in question (whomever is personally responsible for the worst recieved ending to a video game property in history) are not deserving of respect, they are deserving of scorn and anger and ridicule. I bought a product with advertised features and benefits, and they were just a pack of LIES, Geoff. This was an ABORTION, and its nothing but deflection and PR bullcrap from BioWare since. They KNEW this ending sucked, and they LIED to us about it. Thats one of the main reasons people are upset. We are sick of being talked to as if BioWare's products are both unassailable art and crass profit making enterprises simultaneously. If it's art, why did they lie about it?
THEY answer to US, Geoff. Their art answers to our whims and desires as paying customers, not Mac Walter's personal sense of accomplishment. (rasberry) WE are in charge of the gaming industry. BioWare's future sales will reflect this, and then you will see heads roll.
Why wait?
#464
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 12:02
daisekihan
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Naltair wrote...
I didn't see it as fawning, did you see some of the first posts in this thread? BSN is notoriously bad at being civil and Chris Priestly, rightly so poked fun at that reputation by using himself as the subject of that joke you mentioned. He isn't fawning he is simply stating that people should recognize that Geoff is here at his own volition and is going out of his way to have discourse with fans that have purchased his app and clarify elements that either were unclear or add further insight to his work.daisekihan wrote...
I have one other question which may seem a bit harsh, but I'm going to ask it, but I really am asking it hoping for an honest answer: as a gaming journalist, how would you address the criticism that the gaming media's relationship with game companies is a bit too cozy, even compared the coverage of other entertainment mediums like movies or music in their respective journalistic outlets?
For example, when Chris Priestly said in this very post "Treat him as well as you'd treat me. No wait. Treat him much better than that." I studied journalism for my first year of college before switching to education, but based on what I read and learned in that time, I have to say that this comes off as a corporate spokesman fawning over a journalist who is covering his company's product. And while I did purchase the app and found it very interesting, it left me with the overall feeling that Game Informer and similar gaming news outlets leave me with --- that I'm reading a very well put together PR leaflet, even though the category the app is filed under is News.
It's true their was incivility, but at that point there was no way to know if this was really the creator of the app or not.
I admit it may just be my opinion or skewed perception, but to me Mr. Priestly's remarks do not reflect the level of distance I would hope for between a journalist covering a product's release and a the head of marketing for that product.
#465
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 12:02
FemmeShep
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Lexagg wrote...
Report and move on. I'm pretty sure impersonating BioWare employees goes against at least some forum rule.
Lol
Chris Priestly alaready confirmed it. Geoff has confirmed it on his twitter. Are you being serious?
#466
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 12:14
whitey4444
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I highly recommend the app, at a few bucks it's a steal.
Geoff
Good app, provided great insight into the development process. Going the opposite way from the ending everyone is banging on about, I really liked the insight into the really early development process. Also suprised how few people play engineer, and how many people looked at the leaked script.
Is it just my imagination though, or does one of the early quarian prototypes look exactly like a volus (fourth screen in pg4 ch4)? Do you know if that is an early quarian prototype which later became the volus one in development, or did a volus picture make its way in there accidentally?
I get the impression that Casey Hudson really likes flying as well
Geoff
Good app, provided great insight into the development process. Going the opposite way from the ending everyone is banging on about, I really liked the insight into the really early development process. Also suprised how few people play engineer, and how many people looked at the leaked script.
Is it just my imagination though, or does one of the early quarian prototypes look exactly like a volus (fourth screen in pg4 ch4)? Do you know if that is an early quarian prototype which later became the volus one in development, or did a volus picture make its way in there accidentally?
I get the impression that Casey Hudson really likes flying as well
#468
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:09
FemmeShep
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lanep25 wrote...
I think we scared off Geoff, guys.
#469
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:14
Oxy Clean
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lanep25 wrote...
I think we scared off Geoff, guys.
Well that is highly unfortunate. I'm actually extremely happy that he took time out of his obviously busy schedule to answer some of our questions. Some of these questions really needed to be answered.
#470
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:18
BobbyTheI
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I'm sure he expected to get a wide variety of questions on the making of the game, and not 100 different variations on "So, the ending is all a big joke, right? They're holding back the real endings for later, right? Or did they really think it was actually a good idea?" But unfortunately for him, there's really only one topic regarding ME3 that we're interested in right now.
I'll be looking forward to the information we get when he updates the documentary with the devs reacting to the ending outcry. Just to see how much they're still deluding themselves into thinking we're a vocal minority, and the rest of the world thinks they're geniuses.
I'll be looking forward to the information we get when he updates the documentary with the devs reacting to the ending outcry. Just to see how much they're still deluding themselves into thinking we're a vocal minority, and the rest of the world thinks they're geniuses.
#471
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:20
Reptilian Rob
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He had no idea the inferno he had walked into.lanep25 wrote...
I think we scared off Geoff, guys.
#472
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 04:11
honkayjeezus
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Did you ever get the feeling as an insider that there was something pretty wrong or rushed with the game?
#473
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 04:17
Edrick1976
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Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time out of your weekend to come on the forms and talk with us. Because you did this I am buying your app on my PC and I have to say its well worth the 3 bucks.
I would like to ask a question, why do you hope they dont change the ending to much? WHy do you feel this way?
I would like to ask a question, why do you hope they dont change the ending to much? WHy do you feel this way?
Modifié par Edington, 26 mars 2012 - 04:18 .
#474
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 04:18
GeoffKeighley
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Hey guys - I am still around, I will try to answer some more questions soon!
#475
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 04:20
jcmccorm
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I think he thought he was doing a light fun project. And that's what it should have been.Reptilian Rob wrote...
He had no idea the inferno he had walked into.
When the questions turn tough, he has to ask himself, "Am I willing to knife the people who set me up with all this wonderful access in the first place?" Mind you, this is the same position that many authors at video game magazines may find themselves in. This is what makes an outside, such as Forbes, so attractive.
Modifié par jcmccorm, 26 mars 2012 - 04:21 .
