626 réponses à ce sujet

[HBC Dresden]

Guys and gals, please tone down the ending-focused questions.

I have a question Geoff Keighley that I was wondering as I watched/read the app: Do you know why BioWare decided to reduce Harbinger's role in ME3?

He is relegated to being referenced by Anderson and a Reaper Destroyer, and to show up at the end to destroy Hammer (which I admit was pretty cool). However, I think this would have been more dramatic if Harbinger was given lines in the game. Like how The Illusive Man represented the antagonism of Indoctrination (Cerberus is not a villain, Indoctrinated Cerberus is a villain, big difference) and in-fighting, I totally expected Harbinger to represent the antagonism of the Reapers. On one hand, maybe BioWare wanted to represent the Reapers as a horde with no leader, but the Harbinger plot from ME2 should have been followed up on (its fascination with Shepard). So, do you have any info on this? Thanks!!!

[FemmeShep]

Naltair wrote...

I'm still not convinced that Mass Effect as a series will be that reviled or looked down on. In fact even if the ending of say Lost was "disappointing" there are an awful lot of shows that seem to want to emulate or capitalize on the maligned series.

Now I will admit that this ending will be remembered for polarizing the community and industry journalists alike. I think it will be an interesting episode in gaming and I am intrigued to see how it turns out. But it is too early to say that it will remembered as the worst thing ever.

You keep using "polarizing" and "contoversial" instead of "dissapointing" and "awful".

[Isichar]

FemmeShep wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I'm still not convinced that Mass Effect as a series will be that reviled or looked down on. In fact even if the ending of say Lost was "disappointing" there are an awful lot of shows that seem to want to emulate or capitalize on the maligned series.

Now I will admit that this ending will be remembered for polarizing the community and industry journalists alike. I think it will be an interesting episode in gaming and I am intrigued to see how it turns out. But it is too early to say that it will remembered as the worst thing ever.

You keep using "polarizing" and "contoversial" instead of "dissapointing" and "awful".

Artistic integrity = nahnahnahnahnah nahnahnahnahnah

[Darth_Trethon]

Isichar wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I'm still not convinced that Mass Effect as a series will be that reviled or looked down on. In fact even if the ending of say Lost was "disappointing" there are an awful lot of shows that seem to want to emulate or capitalize on the maligned series.

Now I will admit that this ending will be remembered for polarizing the community and industry journalists alike. I think it will be an interesting episode in gaming and I am intrigued to see how it turns out. But it is too early to say that it will remembered as the worst thing ever.

You keep using "polarizing" and "contoversial" instead of "dissapointing" and "awful".

Artistic integrity = nahnahnahnahnah nahnahnahnahnah

BioWare and EA are bussy at work making me eat all my pro "games are art" arguments. I always argued that conventionally the word art equalled trash in my view and that I can much rather respect games as true art but they seem to have taken it the other way around and think that since now games are officially considered art they can get away with delivering trash on par with conventional art.....like an hd picture of a rusty plate I saw posted in an "art" museum.....I wish I was kidding or exagerating....a picture of a rusty plate that someone neglected for a lot of years is considered "art".

I really hope this games are art nonsense doesn't end up destroying the gaming industry.....right now it seems like the only straw they can grasp at to defend what happened to ME3's ending and I hope they don't get away with it.

[Evenjelith]

Hi Geoff,

Do you know why Mordin seems to be the only voice actor not invited back to reprise their role from ME1 or 2? Especially when he was such a fan favorite.

Modifié par Evenjelith, 26 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[Naltair]

FemmeShep wrote...

You keep using "polarizing" and "contoversial" instead of "dissapointing" and "awful".

Becauase I don't feel disappointed and I think the game on the whole is not awful.

I do think the endings have polarized the audience; not everyone hates them, but on BSN you either love the endings or hate them... because even if you don't mind them, the community automatically puts you in the love them camp.  I am moderate, I feel it could have been better, I don't think the ME3 endings killed my dog and murdered my family though.

The endings are also extremely controversial, look at all the coverage they are getting, even from more "mainstream" markets.  So yes in my mind, polarizing and controversial is how I would describe them.

Modifié par Naltair, 26 mars 2012 - 08:48 .

[finnithe]

Evenjelith wrote...

Hi Geoff,

Do you know why Mordin seems to be the only voice actor not invited back to reprise their role from ME1 or 2? Especially when he was such a fan favorite.

Grapevine says that Michael Beattie's agent asked for too much.

[Hendrik.III]

Saku39 wrote...

GeoffKeighley wrote...


Saku39 - Are you serious? Create "real life consequences" for whoever wrote the ending? You may not like how the game ended, but like any form of creative expression we have to respect the artists behind the game....and all the amazing work they did on the series overall.

Oh, yes, I'm absolutely serious. In most industries, a mistake of these proportions would result in someone being fired. Who is going to be fired, Geoff? Who is responsible for the ending we recieved, which polls around 4 percent positive among BioWare's customers? Was it Mac Walters? Was it Hudson? Was it both? What is the full name of the person who ultimately approved the end sequence dialogue? Why has that person not been fired?

No, I DON'T have to respect the artists behind the game. Is that rule written down somewhere? Perhaps you should speak to my attorney. The artists in question (whomever is personally responsible for the worst recieved ending to a video game property in history) are not deserving of respect, they are deserving of scorn and anger and ridicule. I bought a product with advertised features and benefits, and they were just a pack of LIES, Geoff. This was an ABORTION, and its nothing but deflection and PR bullcrap from BioWare since. They KNEW this ending sucked, and they LIED to us about it. Thats one of the main reasons people are upset. We are sick of being talked to as if BioWare's products are both unassailable art and crass profit making enterprises simultaneously. If it's art, why did they lie about it?

THEY answer to US, Geoff. Their art answers to our whims and desires as paying customers, not Mac Walter's personal sense of accomplishment. (rasberry)  WE are in charge of the gaming industry. BioWare's future sales will reflect this, and then you will see heads roll.

Why wait?

*fetches popcorn*

I agree with you, but Geoff will never adress this thoroughly nor is it his place to do so. Personally, if they keep coming at us with this art defence and "planned" ending, I'm done with BW. Not that I like to do so, but if you truly think disappointment, frustration and/or anger surging into a customer after using your product is a good thing, you are raving mad. Who wants that?! If looking for entertainment after a long day of work, I don't want to feel like that... but it's art, so it's okay? Preposterous.

These emotions weren't invoked by emotional happenings in the storyline, but because of deception outside of the game and overall dissatisfaction - that's something entirely different. 

[Thornquist]

I recommend everyone getting this app.
Its a great way to get inside Bioware and understanding how their design choices are made.

[Evenjelith]

finnithe wrote...

Evenjelith wrote...

Hi Geoff,

Do you know why Mordin seems to be the only voice actor not invited back to reprise their role from ME1 or 2? Especially when he was such a fan favorite.

Grapevine says that Michael Beattie's agent asked for too much.

Thanks,

What a kick in the Quad 

[Necroscope]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Hey Geoff. Do you understand why many of us are frustrated with said endings? For me personally, the developers said repeatedly that Mass effect wouldn't end like lost, it would not have an A,B,C ending, and that it would provide full closure. Obviously, we got a completely different game than what they promised (at least regarding the endings).

So with that said, whether you liked the endings or not, do you believe that bioware should at least add in more variations to the endings, maybe add in a "golden ending" where you have the absolute best outcome with mostly everyone surviving, but they make it harder for players to achieve?

I know they did that with synthesis but let's be honest, it really isn't much different from the other two endings don't you think?

These are my questions as well.

[Darth_Trethon]

For the whole real consequences for those responsible argument....I somewhat agree. Not destroying their careers or even firing them on any bad terms but I think that making absolutely sure they are never able to ruin a part of any game in such a way ever again would be fitting. Diminishing what they are responsible for....take them off writing anything important and maybe let them write for smaller things.....like Morinth's appearance in ME3....or the space hamster's extensive dialogue and story.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 26 mars 2012 - 11:23 .

[ziloe]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Isn't dismissing the endings as just colors just as bad as complaining about comments of "entitlement"?

The thing about the endings is that they mirror themes brought forward beforehand in the rest of the series. Think about the 3 choices. Destruction, Control, and Unity. Many of the big choices in the games revolve arround these themes.

At the end of ME1 you could choose to focus on sovereign (destroy) abandon the council (control) or save them (unity). in ME2 you choose if the collector base is saved (control) or not (destroy). unity was the oiverall theme of the suicide mission itself. The end of Legion's Loyalty mission is a direct reflection of the choice at the end of ME3. Destroy the geth for what they might become, or Control them with the virus to gain support.

There are many situations like this and I dont think its fair to just disregard the rest of the series to that end. Playing through all 3 games in a row gives a unique impression of the way that series wraps up.

Are you really trying to justify yourself? I picked all three endings, one after the other. They were the same. We were promised a unique experience, and yet all the endings basically followed the same path. I don't care that they appeared to be different options. You're clearly deluding yourself, as a way to pacify the fact that you know Bioware went against their word. The fact that they blatantly reused the same content for each ending is 
very cheap, and ruins any sense of accomplishment. Not because of how it ends, but because there is barely any difference no matter how different each individual playthrough. Having issue with this does NOT make you entitled. 

Secondly, I believe I asked "Geoff" the question. Thanks. 

Modifié par ziloe, 26 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[pro5]

My questions (sorry if already asked before, did not read through the whole thread):

1. Is it possible some footage and materials were not included in the public release of Final Hours (say, to be revealed at a later date to clarify the endings)?

2.  Is it possible Bioware intentionally used the Final Hours to spark further controversy and discussion about the endings by showing "development notes" and the like that weren't actually accurate or complete?

3. Is it really true that they were still arguing and unsure how to conclude the trilogy as late as November?

Modifié par pro5, 26 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Naltair]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

For the whole real consequences for those responsible argument....I somewhat agree. Not destroying their careers or even firing them on any bad terms but I think that making absolutely sure they are never able to ruin a part of any game in such a way ever again would be fitting. Diminishing what they are responsible for....take them off writing anything important and maybe let them write for smaller things.....like Morinth's appearance in ME3....or the space hamster's extensive dialogue and story.

Because people make mistakes?  Especially in the entertainment industry where the audience can be fairly fickle.  Will their be consequences of course, will they probably change what they do, they would be a terrible company if they didn't.  I beelive BioWare to be competent despite what many fans will say in between their mindless bashing.

They made a mistake, or misjudged, or who knows.  But they are taking the feedback and will incoporate that into future work.  I am sorry just firing or diminishing someone for this is asinine and just speaks to how petty and angry/bitter some fans are.  Because ultimately it was a group effort and if heads do roll that should be an internal matter not a witch hunt conducted by a journalist or instigated by fans.

[Jaysh]

Deventh wrote...

Is the indoctrination theory true?

this

[Naltair]

pro5 wrote...

My questions (sorry if already asked before, did not read through the whole thread):

1. Is it possible some footage and materials were not included in the public release of Final Hours (say, to be revealed at a later date to clarify the endings)?

2.  Is it possible Bioware intentionally used the Final Hours to spark further controversy and discussion about the endings by showing "development notes" and the like that weren't actually accurate or complete?

3. Is it really true that they were still arguing and unsure how to conclude the trilogy as late as November?

1. Unsure, that is for Geoff.

2. Geoff has stated this was his personal project, this was his agenda not BioWare's.  They worked with him and he ran information by them to be fact checked but this was not a response by BioWare to fans.  The bulk of the work was done before the game even released.

4. As stated in the app, they had issues with how they wanted to do the ending, the wording and the like.  I don't think it was described as arguing per se in the Final Hours, just they were trying to get it right.  Which I am sure will not appease the ending bashers.

[Naltair]

Jaysh wrote...

Deventh wrote...

Is the indoctrination theory true?

this

I am pretty sure Geoff can't answer this, not sure why people think he can.

[The Spamming Troll]

*removed because of logic*

[Ashilana]

Naltair wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

You keep using "polarizing" and "contoversial" instead of "dissapointing" and "awful".

Becauase I don't feel disappointed and I think the game on the whole is not awful.

I do think the endings have polarized the audience; not everyone hates them, but on BSN you either love the endings or hate them... because even if you don't mind them, the community automatically puts you in the love them camp.  I am moderate, I feel it could have been better, I don't think the ME3 endings killed my dog and murdered my family though.

The endings are also extremely controversial, look at all the coverage they are getting, even from more "mainstream" markets.  So yes in my mind, polarizing and controversial is how I would describe them.

Ah yes, promoting the righteousness of genocide is polarizing and advocating social darwinism is controversial.  Now I understand.

(edit)  I am sorry if anyone feels this is going too far.  I keep getting riled up.  (edit)

Modifié par Ashilana, 26 mars 2012 - 03:17 .

[Naltair]

Ashilana wrote...

Ah yes, promoting the righteousness of genocide is polarizing and advocating social darwinism is controversial.  Now I understand.

I never said those things, but sure put words in my mouth.

[Ashilana]

Naltair wrote...

Ashilana wrote...

Ah yes, promoting the righteousness of genocide is polarizing and advocating social darwinism is controversial.  Now I understand.

I never said those things, but sure put words in my mouth.

I did not put words in your mouth, I merely question your choice of words and was attempting to use some humor to keep from being downright insulting. 

Polarizing and controversial are words that attempt to make discussion of the ending into a merely intellectual endeavor.  I find that a very strange way to view the ending.

[Jaysh]

Naltair wrote...

Jaysh wrote...

Deventh wrote...

Is the indoctrination theory true?

this

I am pretty sure Geoff can't answer this, not sure why people think he can.

You never know. 

Modifié par Jaysh, 26 mars 2012 - 03:24 .

[Naltair]

Ashilana wrote...

I did not put words in your mouth, I merely question your choice of words and was attempting to use some humor to keep from being downright insulting. 

Polarizing and controversial are words that attempt to make discussion of the ending into a merely intellectual endeavor.  I find that a very strange way to view the ending.

Because it is an intellectual endeavor?  Just like the rest of the series?  It is quite apt, the ending has polarized the fans, journalists, and industry pundits.  They are also highly controversial, thus all the coverage from various media outlets many of them not typically video game focused.

Not sure how that terminology is off.

To put it another way there is no universal consensus; some people love it, others hate it, and some people just don't care.

Modifié par Naltair, 26 mars 2012 - 03:31 .

[Naltair]

Jaysh wrote...

You never know.

Just seems outside the scope of his article and research.  He didn't just focus on the end of the game but the series as a whole and the people behind it.  Not sure why he would know if a fan based theory is true.

But like you said, you never know.  My money though is that he just does not know.