330 réponses à ce sujet

[Emberwake]

Khayness wrote...

The ending doesn't make sense at all, but closure out of the 2 options.

Ultimate Sacrifice is the best ending for DA:O, Planescape: Torment is the best RPG ever made and Gladiator is one of my favourite movies. You don't need happy endings to get an ending right.

This is a great point. There is nothing inherently wrong with a hero sacrificing themselves or being killed in the end. It just needs to be setup properly. You need to make that sacrifice part of their character.

Bioware is probably sick of being lectured on how to write at this point, but I hope they understand why there are so many posts trying to take them to school about it.

I love the Gladiator example in particular because it's NOT about sacrifice, and it could fit Mass Effect without going back and adding any tragic flaw or extra motivation for Shepard. In Gladiator, Maximus doesn't sacrifice himself, he is murdered in a situation in which he is powerless to stop it. His drive, his hate for Commodus, and the blinding need Maximus feels to avenge his family, push him to triumph even as death claims him. Its moving, because in the end, the enemy he conquers isn't just Commodus, it is death itself. Maximus defies death long enough to achieve his goals.

Why isn't that Shepard? We see him wounded, probably badly. He presses on, but the impression we are given is that he is slowly bleeding out. He's in pain, and he won't make it without medical treatment, but he isn't dead yet.

Of course, if he knew the Starchild was ahead, maybe he would have just laid down and waited for death.

Hold the line.

Modifié par Lochias WH, 24 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[Negix]

Both. Closure because its absolute necessity. Closure because the game allows the player to shape the world, the game itself, with his character, up to the point of a full rainbow world. Full rainbow world = full rainbow ending. If you dont want to include a super happy ending, dont give super happy solutions. Dont let us save the Quarians and the Geth, as an example.

[Bomma72]

YOU CAN"T WIN. It doesn't have to be happy to be good. In the end you basically are forced to do the Reapers work for them. The ultimate purpose of playing a game is to win.

Sorry for the yelling.

[Dark Specie]

Lochias WH wrote...

Khayness wrote...

The ending doesn't make sense at all, but closure out of the 2 options.

Ultimate Sacrifice is the best ending for DA:O, Planescape: Torment is the best RPG ever made and Gladiator is one of my favourite movies. You don't need happy endings to get an ending right.

This is a great point. There is nothing inherently wrong with a hero sacrificing themselves or being killed in the end. It just needs to be setup properly. You need to make that sacrifice part of their character.

Bioware is probably sick of being lectured on how to write at this point, but I hope they understand why there are so many posts trying to take them to school about it.

I love the Gladiator example in particular because it's NOT about sacrifice, and it could fit Mass Effect without going back and adding any tragic flaw or extra motivation for Shepard. In Gladiator, Maximus doesn't sacrifice himself, he is murdered in a situation in which he is powerless to stop it. His drive, his hate for Commodus, and the blinding need Maximus feels to avenge his family, push him to triumph even as death claims him. Its moving, because in the end, the enemy he concurs isn't just Commodus, it is death itself. Maximus defies death long enough to achieve his goals.

Why isn't that Shepard? We see him wounded, probably badly. He presses on, but the impression we are given is that he is slowly bleeding out. He's in pain, and he won't make it without medical treatment, but he isn't dead yet.

Of course, if he knew the godchild was ahead, maybe he would have just laid down and waited for death.

Hold the line.

Good post, but sacrifie shouldn't be mandatory, it should be an option like in DAO...

[Terraforming2154]

FemmeShep wrote...

My biggest issues with the ending is that:

I. It's incoherent.
II. It redefines the entire main plot.
III. It contains plot holes/lore errors
IV. It lacks resolution/closure.
V. It doesn't reflect your choices made throughout the game.

So for me, it has nothing to do with the lack of a happy ending. Although for a game that is all about choice, why couldn't there be a happy ending? That's the only thing I'll say in that regards. Seems weird it wasn't at least an option. Or rather, there wasn't a path to get a happy ending.

I agree. This post covers pretty much all of my issues and opinions on a happier ending as well.

[Exolyps]

Both to be honest.
Mass Effect has always been about choices, beating the odds.
In the first game Shepard walks out of the rubble.
In the second game all my squad-mates survives a suicide mission.
In the third game... I practically caused galactic extinction. That's hell of a turn.

I want to be able to build a house for Tali! I want to be able to survive. Be it I have to sacrifice half of the galaxy to get it, I still want that option.

[RyanPun1991]

Deventh wrote...

RyanPun1991 wrote...

Would like happy ending as an option (really don't understand the whole issue with happy endings anyway...)
But really need more closure.

Some people think that what they want, you should get. Really stupid logic, but hey..

Happy ending would put a smile on my face when I finish the game, but if they don't want to do it, fine. Happiness dies (in South Park goth kids voice) ending that makes sense can give me peace too lol

[M2S SOLID JOSH]

Both

[bucyrus5000]

Maybe closure, only in the sense of what is happening with my friends/squad/family.

[Sparse]

Zenoctilles wrote...

Yet you didn't see people demanding a new ending for that game - I wonder why? Deus Ex: Human Revolution had a terrible ending, but I guess the game's focus on why events occurred over their actual occurrence took the sting out the ending a little.

Yeah and the last game in the Deus Ex series before DE:HR was absolutely awful, so it didn't have much to live up to. Also it was basically a stealth-em-up rather than an RPG so everything was a bit more superficial.

[Emberwake]

Dark Specie wrote...

Lochias WH wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Good post, but sacrifie shouldn't be mandatory, it should be an option like in DAO...

You are absolutely right. I just meant to show that the ending they wrote could actually changed to accomodate a meaningful death, either in the form of sacrifice or in the Gladiator style of defying death to claim victory.

Hold the line.

[Gammazero79]

 both. 
There was enough choice in Mass Effect for a Happy ending and a dark ending.

[Gill Kaiser]

- It threw out the themes of the trilogy and directly ran counter to everything that came before it

- Our previous choices didn't matter

- The 3 options we were given lead to the same result, a nihilistic and horrible ending that destroyed the Mass Effect universe and negated everything the player had accomplished up until that point.

- In each of the choices, it seemed that Shepard had to arbitrarily die for no reason except the writers said so.

- There were plot holes all over the place.

- The Dark Energy foreshadowing and Harbinger were thrown out and replaced with a new character who didn't relate to anything, and whose motivations were downright stupid.

- No closure at all, except that everybody dies or is stranded, and all of Shepard's friends abandoned him.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 24 mars 2012 - 06:58 .

[bas_kon]

Both. But the lack of variety on personal level like say: sad, bitter-sweet, sacrifice AND happy for Shepard, was horrible.
I don't wan't to sacrifice Shepard and/or have a sad ending everytime I finish the game. That's just boring.

I'd also like to see him alive and choose what he want to do (for example: staying with his LI or not, being the next human counselor, retiring..etc) with he's life after the war. Kind of like DAO post-coronation dialogues.

And I really hate cliffhangers that are not meant to be clarified EVER.

Modifié par bas_kon, 24 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[Adamski_707]

Main problem is closure.

However i do also believe that a happy ending should be there even if it is difficult to obtain.

[Hajilestone]

I want the option or ability to get a happy ending, not just three sad ones.

[Bob3terd]

lack of sense foremost, then closure then optionally happy endings

[Kawamura]

As others said, both. I don't see all Shepards as being tragic heroes. Some are, some aren't. Dying at the end isn't a required feature for Shep because not all Sheps are the sort that die at the end.

That's circular, but what I'm saying is that a lack of a "Shep wins the day, has sex with Kaidan while wearing an Alliance hat with a jaunty tilt and drinking a Canadian lager on a balcony overlooking a rebuilt Vancouver" forces certain Sheps to be ... well, the sort of characters they aren't.

[john v rambo]

Both..ish. Closure for sure. As for how it actually ends, I`d like it to be similar to ME2 where the ending can range from everyone dying to everyone living.

[The Real Bowser]

Neither. I want a fulfilling ending that lets me feel like a hero at the end of the game, instead of a reaper's pawn. Though, yes, closure is a massive bonus and it doesn't feel right without it.  Oh, and I want it to actually make some ****ing sense, yeah.

Modifié par The Real Bowser, 24 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[Ex Tenebrae Lux]

Dark Specie wrote...
Good post, but sacrifice shouldn't be mandatory, it should be an option like in DAO...

This...

Some Shepards deserve a happy (living) ending, some sacrifice. But I want to decide... as I did in DA:O.
By the way, I don't wanna have to choose between the same ending in 3 different colours.

Oh, and yes... closure would be nice, too.

[Azarni]

Both.

I'm not saying that a game like this can't have a dark/tragic ending, and I'm not saying that this one in particular had to end happily, but I believe it should have been an option. I still think Jeremy Jahns said it best: saying "the hero has to anything" (in this case, "the hero has to die") should not apply to a game like ME where choice is supposed to be the biggest factor.

And to deny us any kind of closure to accompany the choice we were forced to make? That just made it all the more distressing.

[Dark Wyn]

Both.

[templarfrost]

Made virtually no sense. Zero closure.

It's been said a thousand times, I expected Shepard to die.
Would've been awesome if he lived and was the ultimate galactic hero in his remaining days...
But him not surviving was a sad, tragic reality for me. I prepared myself for that in this story.

But no closure, not even remotely. None. Space magic. 3 colors, your crew running away, the Normandy getting half disentigrated while attempting a FTL jump... my LI surviving and running away too? The damage done to the Normandy during isnt even remotely consistent to the damage sustained when it hits planet side.

Science fiction - You're doing it wrong.

[Senario]

Both for me, taking examples from the previous ME2 there were "happy" endings if you did everything right. Shepard is not a Tragic hero, he is an Epic hero.