512 réponses à ce sujet

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

I know but it is a perfect way to shield it to begin with, because alot of parents got many different versions of what sex actually is when it gets to different media hehe, am cool about it as it is, the box just goes all the way showing it.



In my part of the world it would probably just be put at 15 years or above, since we are more relaxed about things in Denmark.

[Banana Muffin]

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

In my part of the world it would probably just be put at 15 years or above, since we are more relaxed about things in Denmark.

The world needs more dansk gladporr!  (sorry don't know the english or danish word for it)

[Errel]

Jack_Cheze wrote...

2 thoughts.
1)Know what your kids are playing, today video games are more like interactive movies than like pacman.
2)Sex scenes in video games typically suck because most programmers have never had any

Heeeeey....
I resent that..

[Kaosgirl]

F-C wrote...

lol people only serve to prove the analogy i made to crack heads and a crack dealer on the corner.

I object to the idea of comparing sexual innuendo to addictive toxins being peddled by violent criminals.

F-C wrote...
its just pointless to try and even discuss anything with the ignorance and one sided bias from these people. all they see is their own opinion and thats it.

Take a harder look at your own biases.

F-C wrote...
there are many parents out there like my sister who did not choose to be a single parent with 2 children and a life so overwhelming she simply doesnt have the time to research every little detail of her kids life while working full time, paying bills, doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, doing the childrens activities, helping them with schoolwork, and the 100 other things she has to deal with on a nearly daily basis.

That's cute, but seriously:  If she's so overworked with everything else that she can't even look at the back of a box she's purchasing for her kids, Social Services (or whatever your local equivelant is) needs to get involved - for her sake and those of her kids.  If she can't tell this game is unsuitable for minors, she's at serious risk of using rat poison instead of baking powder in the next meal she cooks.  I mean her no offense by this - she didn't choose to be in that position, after all.  But if it's too much for her at this point, then she needs to ask for some damn help until she's a little less overwhelmed.

And maybe if her brother actually gave a damn about her, he'd step up and offer it instead of portraying her as a hopeless basket-case on the internet for the sake of some argument about how ESRB are too "watered down" to convey any meaning.

F-C wrote...
all ive ever said is that there should be an "Explicit" label on the box that is above just the plain old "mature" that is tagged on any game that even has a gunshot or curse words in it, so she cant mistakenly buy an inappropriate package for her children.

the rating system for these games is ****** poor, everything is mature rated these days and she might as well just ban her kids from games altogether if she were to base everything off of that.

You know why everything is rated mature?  Overprotective parents who think "even a gunshot or curse words" warrants throwing it in an 18+ Only category. 

Now, I'd agree that a game that is explicitly about hardcore sex or the like deserves to be in a category similar to movies that are explicitly about the same (ie. porn games = porn movies.)  But right now you're defending the idea  that a game with the same content as a Mature or Restricted rated movie *needs* to be considered equivelant to porn instead.  And that, to me, reeks of the same overprotective attitude that caused the existing rating systems to be watered down in the first place.

And seriously:  if an "M 17+" rating isn't grabbing your sister's attention already, she's probably too beleagured to catch an "X: 21+" rating either.  She needs something better than her brother making patronizing white-knight statements on some internet forum for her.

You're not trying to convince crack-heads that the dealer on the corner is bad.  You're trying to tell college students that beer is the same damn thing as methadone.

Modifié par Kaosgirl, 02 décembre 2009 - 10:02 .

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Kunne skrive på denne her måde, BUT the Moderators and people would not like it I guess hehe confused by the the gladporr... lol

[Alexus_VG]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Now, I'd agree that a game that is explicitly about hardcore sex or the like deserves to be in a category similar to movies that are explicitly about the same (ie. porn games = porn movies.)  But right now you're defending the idea  that a game with the same content as a Mature or Restricted rated movie *needs* to be considered equivelant to porn instead.  And that, to me, reeks of the same overprotective attitude that caused the existing rating systems to be watered down in the first place.

Yes this is exactly it. We need a less watered down and more accurate to the content system for rating games. At this point in time I believe due to the fact that most games are rated mature parents do not take the rating system seriously. That said however if parents are that worried about game control it takes less than 10 to 15 minutes to research for info on a new game on the net.

[Kaosgirl]

F-C wrote...

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

F-C wrote...




what im saying is it needs a label like this in a decent size stuck on the box. someone like my sister doesnt even know what shes looking at when shes looking at a video game box, and she could very easily miss the one line down in the corner of the back of the box.

slap a couple of these on there large enough to be very visible and she couldnt miss it. then you could call her a bad parent or whatever else you like because it would be true.

Yes if it is not listed with an Adulthood age, but it is, listed as 18 and above so technically that one is not needed, it just need to have it shown that if you don't like violence and sexual content don't buy it. it also say 'Suitable only for persons of 18 years and over, Not to be supplied to any persons below that age' is a strict enough warning to not buy it for you kids, and if you do then it would be you supplying them with content in a game they should not have and turns it down to your responsability.

borderlands has the same M rating in the corner as this game. it says 17+ just like this game.

its about as bad as diablo 2, i mean really.

Because many parents get their panties twisted over the idea of Diablo 2 being in the hands of their child.  In their eyes, Diablo 2, Borderlands and DA:O really do belong in the same category.  Throwing that label on one is just going to prompt them into demanding it go on the others as well.

And then we're back where we started, except maybe with you on the other side of the fence instead.  Or maybe with you demanding a third step be made to distinguish the games because the second  one got too watered down as well.

F-C wrote...
give me one good reason why putting those stickers on it would be bad.

Precedent indicates it'll get broken and watered down to uselessness just like the existing system did, resulting in a repeat of this conversation in five years with some new form of 'extra warning' to supplement the two layers we already added.

[Banana Muffin]

I wonder why this thread never gets locked, it's been off-topic for about 15 pages now..

[Inhuman one]

how is seeing naked people scarring to children I still wonder?



And why arent americans extinct yet? you would think with all that crazyness about nudity and sex in America that its forbidden over there.



No offense to americans of course, but as a european I am a bit pissed that over here we get to suffer from conservative zealots that seem to hail from America and censor the games I am playing here.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

I wonder if a game with less adult content sells more or less than one with. No adult content means more sales due to more available age groups.

But we all know, on the other hand, that sex sells games.

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 02 décembre 2009 - 11:12 .

[Alneverus]

Inhuman one wrote...

how is seeing naked people scarring to children I still wonder?

And why arent americans extinct yet? you would think with all that crazyness about nudity and sex in America that its forbidden over there.

No offense to americans of course, but as a european I am a bit pissed that over here we get to suffer from conservative zealots that seem to hail from America and censor the games I am playing here.

Because there are some actual intelligent American's around. Though there is a problem with people expecting someone else to do their job for them.

Also, I wouldn't simply point to America as the only country with harsh censor laws. Though the reason that many games fall into the American system is because it is easier to sell and market them as compared to an Adult rated game... It all comes down to the money.

Anyway, on the point of censorship, I'm not sure if the two examples I have changed their policy, but I recall where bodies set on fire (from explosion, etc.) was enough to be flat out rejected in Germany, unless you took steps to have them vanish real quick. One cutscene that had a character sparking up a cigarette off a corpse looked out of place since the body didn't have flame effects.

And Japan, if I recall, instantly throws you up into the adult rating if you kill police officers in a game.

Just two examples of other censorship from other countries in my experience. However, each country has their own tolerance and some I agree with (admittedly those with more lax thoughts on it) while others just seem out of place. Like America. If you show a complete female breast that throws you up into the adult rating (as I recall), but an R-rated movie can show one and still suitable for that rating... That makes no sense!

[twincast]

Darpaek wrote...

TileToad wrote...

Perhaps you can explain something to me..
I always thought governments were democratically chosen representatives for your countries society, whereas privately owned corporations (like stores) are greedy money making machines. Why would anyone prefer to be ruled by the latter? Or is being ruled by corporations your definition of liberty?

The people who sell products are never going to chose NOT to make money.  Depravity sells.

They may chose to limit certain transactions to certain age groups because it's Good PR - hence more money.  But to equate a merchant conforming to societal mores to be ruled by said merchants is fallacious.  American "corporations" designed Grand Theft Auto, after all.  The only greater depravities you can find in the world exist in Japan - a far more conservative and mercantilist society than America.  Your assertion also ignores that your own domestic power interests have a far greater role in choosing your "democratically chosen representatives" than you ever will individually.

Again - you'll never understand liberty.  It's not the place of government to make choices for individual conduct within society.  We do not chose representatives to govern our individual conduct (unless said conduct infringes upon another's liberty - hence making certain conduct criminal).  Your country operates under a particular mode of censorship because Bismark made a decision for you concerning your conduct a century ago.  How is THAT superior?

Err, I'd be hard pressed to call Japan "a far more conservative and mercantilist society than America". To begin with, essentially all the conservative morals were imported and forced onto the Japanese people to make it look a modern superpower by then's international standards.* Even so, that didn't pervade society completely. Other than the ridiculous pixelation of the so-called naughty bits it's far closer to Europe when it comes to the human body and human sexuality, simply because Abrahamic dogmas never had a chance to cloud the brains of the majority. Also, family/company and honor/obedience historically had never been held under anywhere near quite as much esteem as during the 20th century C.E. - and it's been rapidly eroding the last twenty years or so.

*For similar reasons homosexuality is viewed as such a big, foreign(!) bad in many countries around the world. Britain put Victorian laws and morals on them and then set them free before them Britons changed those laws themselves.

ZeroPlan wrote...

Well I can't speak for
the rest of Europe but there is a very big difference between how
Americans and Swedes view nudity at least. For us nudity doesn't have
that much to do with sex at all really. Americans think it's pervertet
to let children be naked, we think that americans are perverted for
thinking about sex when they see a naked kid.

As a german i sign this statement.

As an Austrian I do, too.

Darpaek wrote...

Why the **** would anyone visit Sweden?

You do at least realize you're being offensive, right? Personally, I realize that the Scandinavian societies despite some problems are the closest to perfection we have on this world. Sadly, they don't have anything like Akihabara anywhere that I know of, so living there seems terribly boring to me and I'm not the kind of guy who goes out of his way to visit pretty buildings or landscapes, although I do enjoy it when it comes to it.

F-C wrote...

clothing
your kids is in a sense a protection from pedofiles. there are lots of
them all over the place, and having your children run around nude is
only going to serve to provoke those perverts.

i would think its
rather naive to have naked kids running around and thinking there is
nothing wrong with it in todays world where its common knowledge that
there are sick and twisted people out there who will see that as a
method of pleasuring themself.

Right, and every female in a mini skirt is just begging to be raped.

Templar Vilmon wrote...

Darpaek - many of the younger
Greek and Italian women I saw on those beaches were HAWT. Of course, I
also saw some overweight German grandmas that I'd rather have not seen.
At any rate, topless beaches would be great in places like Miami.

Of
course, I'm just waiting for the European posters to come on here and
tell me that overweight people do not exist in their wonderful
utopias.

*rolleyes* they are rarer, not nonexistant - it's a growing problem to varying degrees all over the world where famine isn't a problem and we're all* perfectly aware of it, thank you very much. (*Well, other than those with a fat fetish and those who've convinced themselves that they're better off weighing 100 kg plus.)

johnnywillow wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

The more you oppress something the more tempting it is, and the more ignorance of how to do such a thing safely.
Hence the relatively high teen pregnancy/STD issue in America, as well as underage/college alcohol problems.

I agree
100% with you. When I was in italy ( the country where so many start
drinking wine with thier parents at dinner at such a young age ) I
don't think I ever saw one kid hammered on alcohol when I went out
drinking. In fact some of them asked my friends why they drank so much,
to the point of being hammered out of thier skulls. Most of them didn't
seem to understand the need to get that drunk or drunk at all. Honestly
the only ones I ever saw hammered were the tourists. I have many
friends that have said the exact samething from returning from italy.

*nodnod*

[-Area51-Silent]

I am pretty sure I can see the difference of what would cause each game to be rated a certain way dont you? They tell you. Oh and that bottom part with the Online Interactions not being rated more than likely makes it worst than any pixelated sex considering how many sexual preditors use the web.

Modifié par -Area51-Silent, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:24 .

[Dark83]

Inhuman one wrote...

how is seeing naked people scarring to children I still wonder?

And why arent americans extinct yet? you would think with all that crazyness about nudity and sex in America that its forbidden over there.

Isn't it obvious? While the parents are too busy blaming the public and not being parents, their children are ****ing like crazy.

[MerinTB]

F-C, I think the term "holier-than-thou" was created for you.



I think it is abhorrent that you are hiding your intolerant, protectionist, freedom restricting and demonizing views behind your sister's situation -

assuming you have a sister in this situation, I'll take your word for it, but on the anonymity of the internet people get to make up all kind of stories.



MY sister has 3 kids, 2 adult daughters and 1 teenage son. She is hyper-religious, not worried about violence but worried about sex. Her son is embarrassed and made to cover his eyes at heavy kissing scenes in PG movies and I feel for the boy. Without disparaging on my nieces I will just say the super-religious, over-protective up-bringing did them no good (and unlike you, F-C, I am not going into any more details about my family online - this was already probably too much.)



I am a father myself, and I blame PARENTS for a good deal of what happens to their children. Those warning labels from the ESRB are restrictive on sales and business, it IS true, but I also think they are an acceptable, perhaps necessary, evil. But they do enough. The ratings are ubiquitous, but those PARENTAL ADVISORY labels will only result in kids wanting the content more, you realize? They solve nothing.



As it is, you walk into any typical classroom of adolescents and ask them if they want to watch a G or a PG-13 movie (without giving a title or content) and almost unanimously they will pick the higher rated, more adult film.



The more you label things as "Kids Don't Look Here" the more kids will look there.



If the ESRB label isn't protecting kids it is partially due to the fact that kids will find ways to get the content regardless AND that many parents DON'T CARE. I worked at a couple video game stores and a couple video rental stores, in 3 cities and two states - trust me, many parents DON'T CARE that something is inappropriate for children, they buy it to get their kids to stop bugging them.



MAYBE the time you've wasted arguing this online with people whom you are never going to convince would be better spent HELPING YOUR SISTER, even if it is to only go so far as saying "Hey, I know you don't understand video games and ratings - why don't you ask me in the future of a game is appropriate for your children?"



Be part of the solution of the problem you see, not just another person complaining about a problem existing.

[agentjake4]

I reckon the partial nudity is referring to the brood mother..

[GODzilla]

agentjake4 wrote...

I reckon the partial nudity is referring to the brood mother..

It does...

[F-C]

so far all ive seen for replies directed at me is people flaming and
name calling, but not a single reason why using the standard parental
warning sticker that used on all other media is such a terrible thing.


it wont make the game cost more, it wont make the game worse, and it wont touch you in the bad place.

it will serve as an easily recognizable marker to show parents who arnt video game savvy that the game contains explicit content they might not want their children to see. its the standard warning sticker used on all other media, it is easily recognizable and obvious when stuck on the box. having a little line in the back corner printed on the box like part of the game description is pretty easy to overlook when a parent doesnt even know what they are looking at, having these stickers on it is not.



if you want to understand my views on things, ill just quote my post from the other thread :

F-C wrote...

to
me its pretty simple, but i guess some people want to blame religion
and all these other things, but that has pretty much nothing to do with
it in my view on things. my view is entirely based around people having
successful lives.

if a teenager goes out and gets in some
fights, he might even get a broken bone, but he can get patched up at
the doctors and after a couple fights he knows it hurts and he learns.
life moves on, he finishes high school, goes to college, and has a
successful life.

if a teenager goes out sexing up every other
person they meet, he thinks this is awesome and never learns until oops
i got someone pregnant. now their life is effectively over, chances are
he wont finish high school, he wont go to college, and he will be
doomed to have bottom rung jobs or be on welfare forcing us to pay for
his mistakes.

sex isnt bad, and sex shouldnt be banned, but it
also shouldnt be encouraged in youths until they are old enough and
experienced enough to realize how it can destroy their life and leave
them on the bottom rung of life mooching off of the taxpayers to pay
for their survival.

though i must honestly say most of these replies just leave me with this image in my head of those degenerate trolls our society has to offer sitting at their keyboards like "GRARRR HATE YOU RARGRAR MOAR SEX IN MY GAMES GRARAR BLARB" lol.

Modifié par F-C, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:46 .

[Jisai]

In Japan things are looked at alot differently due to the fact that the belief system is about family and helping all and the greater good of Japan, not the typical 'me, me, me' syndrom. 

I already stated my thoughts earlier in the thread. So far the only 'partial nudity' I have seen is when the Desire Demoness and you battle, as she is topless for the fight. Seriously, did you really expect that little string pasty outfit to stay on? 


The sticker is not a terrible thing, it just means nothing.
Seriously, most 15 year olds know as much as an elder about sex and sexuality.
Not like it isnt all over the media, net, books, periodicals and the like to reference...

Modifié par Jisai, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:53 .

[MerinTB]

F-C wrote...

but not a single reason why using the standard parental
warning sticker that used on all other media is such a terrible thing.

...

though i must honestly say most of these replies just leave me with this image in my head of those degenerate trolls our society has to offer sitting at their keyboards like "GRARRR HATE YOU RARGRAR MOAR SEX IN MY GAMES GRARAR BLARB" lol.

Misrepresentation.  Either deliberately poisoning the well, or you are not reading responses to you.

Didn't answer your question?

Let me quote back to you what I said so you can either read it and see that answers were given - or you can ignore it again and claim I'm a sex-craved pervert (sorry, you didn't say that, you implied I was one "of those degenerate trolls our society has to offer sitting at their
keyboards like "GRARRR HATE YOU RARGRAR MOAR SEX IN MY GAMES GRARAR
BLARB"")

I RESPONDED -
Those warning labels from the ESRB are restrictive on sales and
business, it IS true, but I also think they are an acceptable, perhaps
necessary, evil. But they do enough. The ratings are ubiquitous, but
those PARENTAL ADVISORY labels will only result in kids wanting the
content more, you realize? They solve nothing.

As it is,
you walk into any typical classroom of adolescents and ask them if they
want to watch a G or a PG-13 movie (without giving a title or content)
and almost unanimously they will pick the higher rated, more adult film.

The more you label things as "Kids Don't Look Here" the more kids will look there.

If
the ESRB label isn't protecting kids it is partially due to the fact
that kids will find ways to get the content regardless AND that many
parents DON'T CARE. I worked at a couple video game stores and a couple
video rental stores, in 3 cities and two states - trust me, many
parents DON'T CARE that something is inappropriate for children, they
buy it to get their kids to stop bugging them.

In short - another label won't solve the problem.  You can plaster the whole cover in a big "NOT FOR KIDS" sticker and you'd get basically the same results as the ESRB rating at the back.

I worked at two video game stores.  I repeatedly asked Mothers, Fathers, Grandparents if they knew what they were purchasing when they got their pre-teens copies of GTA and Medal of Honor and what-not, and the almost universal response I got from them was annoyance as if I was insulting their intelligence.

The parents who care don't get the M games for their kid - it takes no longer to read the back of the box of a game or movie for ratings than it does to drive to the store to pick up said game or movie.

You want all of society and business to continue to bend over more and more to compensate for bad parenting.

And you, F-C, continue to use ad hominem attacks, basically insulting, anyone who disagrees with you.  Those ad hominems, those insults, those personal attacks of yours such as

F-C's many insults and personal attacks:

some of you trolls are just so block headed.
...
classy people indeed.
...
arnt you just living in your own little world.
...
trying to discuss this issue with people in this thread is like trying
to discuss why having a crack dealer on the street corner is bad to a
bunch of crack heads. they will never understand, lol.
...
well i came to the conclusion you were ignorant some hours ago, so i guess you are late to the party.
...
deal with the reality of life, which many of you obviously have never had to face.
...
but oh no, these crack heads have to get their panties in a wad
...
these people who live these sheltered little lives so far away from the
harsh reality of many peoples lives is about the same as trying to
explain to a crackhead why crack dealers on a street corner is bad.
they will never understand and only come up with excuses why its ok
because they love their crack
...
i guess people are just too trollish and have to Hate on someone for
even thinking anything outside of "zomg more hot pixels bumping uglies
on my screen pl0x!!"

im doing my best not to comment on how pathetic these people must be to think thats entertaining anyhow.

Small sampling.  So when I said -

F-C, I think the term "holier-than-thou" was created for you.

I
think it is abhorrent that you are hiding your intolerant,
protectionist, freedom restricting and demonizing views behind your
sister's situation

I was basing it on watching you trash anyone who disagreed with you.  I'm not trying to dismiss your relevant questions (example: why not put PARENTAL ADVISORY stickers on games) nor the thrust of you legimate points (example: busy parents need help deciding what is appropriate for their children.)

But you are attacking and dismissing anyone who disagrees that ANOTHER label is needing.  You are basically calling them perverts, degenerates, reality-challenged, block heads, crack addicts, and such that has nothing to do with your (or their) arguments and are simply attacks attempting to belittle them.

I answered you questions about why not another label.  Others have as well.  But you repeatedly say that no one has answered you -

F-C continues to dismiss people responding to him by saying -

but not a single reason why using the standard parental
warning sticker that used on all other media is such a terrible thing
...
i just want a good reason why it shouldnt be there, i still havent seen one.
...
give me one good reason why putting those stickers on it would be bad.

Despite numerous people telling you about the existing labels, how prevalent they are, how much it is the parents responsibility to read about what they buy their kids, about how employees at retail outlets TRY to warn customers . . .
you are dismissing their arguments.  You have every right to declare that, in your opinion, all those arguments are not good arguments, but every time you repeat that you haven't been given a single reason and only been attacked-
YOU. ARE. LYING.

[Dark83]

F-C wrote...

so far all ive seen for replies directed at me is people flaming and
name calling, but not a single reason why using the standard parental
warning sticker that used on all other media is such a terrible thing.


it wont make the game cost more, it wont make the game worse, and it wont touch you in the bad place.

it will serve as an easily recognizable marker to show parents who arnt video game savvy that the game contains explicit content they might not want their children to see. its the standard warning sticker used on all other media, it is easily recognizable and obvious when stuck on the box. having a little line in the back corner printed on the box like part of the game description is pretty easy to overlook when a parent doesnt even know what they are looking at, having these stickers on it is not.

It's irrelevant, and unnecessary. If you think Dragon Age's cuddling deserves an Adult-Only designation, that's already rendered such a sticker pointless. The lady next door thinks bloodless stabbing is evil and Adult-Only, so that other game is Adult-Only.

Shortly, Adult-Only becomes the new Mature. Only they wasted time and effort on it, and now an Adult-Only label garners more knee-jerk reactions from ignorant nutjobs* simply because it's "Adult Only". If you want to be a good parent, pay attention. If you don't know what it is, say no, or spend the minute necessary to look over what they're buying.

*Like the moron who went on national TV to decry Mass Effect's "porno". <_<

Modifié par Dark83, 02 décembre 2009 - 09:36 .

[stubbieAussie]

thisisme8 wrote...

I find it disturbing that we don't mind our kids chopping people to pieces with knives, swords, axes, and what-not, but a little side-boob sends us all in a panic.

QFT

[X106]

The worst part about the people arguing to get sex out of video games is that they are probably all the same F#*%ing people that are ruining the R rated movies in the theater with their four year old kids.

[F-C]

same old nonsense over and over.

there is a reason the parental warning stickers are used. its because they are obvious and they cant be missed, you cant overlook them.

its the standard method used so you cant overlook them.

having a little line printed on the box like its part of the game description is crap in my opinion. its basically made so you can overlook it very easily if you arnt looking specifically for it.

many parents arnt video game savvy, they dont play them, and they dont care about them beyond how much its going to cost when they check out at the register.

the stickers are standard because of this, you cant overlook it when its stuck on the box. its obvious and plain as day to any parent. its jumps out at you the first time you glance at it.

none of that matters to you trolls though, its just RARG BLARG HATE HIM GLARR BLARB.

lol.

Modifié par F-C, 02 décembre 2009 - 09:48 .

[Jisai]

Its an 18+ game for a reason.
If you let your 'kids' play it, well fine. Its a VIDEO GAME.

Now if your child is torturing little animals and cutting the heads off things, they need to see a professional, but thats NOT a direct result or even a result of adult-oriented gaming, its a mental problem from the get-go. Get over it people. I swear Americans are WAY too prudish when it comes to sexuality in public and the idea of it in pixelated gaming. Its the human body, everyone has one, kinda like a-holes...