512 réponses à ce sujet

[Darpaek]

Sex is "necessary" insofar as directed to a single person, within the confines of a societally invented attachment, in your private home, in the dark, quietly... etc.



Violence, on the other hand, is a tool one uses publicly to address society at large.



To all you filthy "pro-marriage" people on these boards: It's YOUR fault. Society has been trying to lock away sex since the invention of... well... society. You buy in to this stupid societal construct by participating in the practice of marriage, and perpetuate society's drive to lock away and hide sex.

[Slaign]

Banana Muffin wrote...

Well I actually argue that sex is not bad  at all  while violence is.

And the reason why that argument comes up is because ESRB accepts violence but not the teeniest bit of sex. So obviously there are people who think sex is worse than violence and I'd like to understand how they think.

Violence may be bad on the level that it's never pretty. But it is necessary whether you like it or not. Violence is meerly the last resort response to a threat. It's the deciding moment, do or die, you survive or I do. It's a part of evolution. Survival without violence is an oxymoron.

Once you accept that, you have to also realize it's a responsibility. Violence is an option, but it's the last one. It's a needed tool for survival, but it's dangerous and should be avoided. There are better ways.

And that refers to real, actual violence. It needs to be accepted that sometimes you need to fight for something.

When it comes to DEPICTIONS of violence, there is no real harm. There is no inherent harm in seeing violence. Knowing it is fictional especially. When CG characters decapitate each other there is no harm done. It's the obsession over it and our fear of it that eventually hurts us. Our fear of it prevents intelligent discussion of it and it's purpose. It's not logical to fear depictions of violence. If you can accept it as fictional, and not escalate it beyond it's place.

Do not hide away the violence and fear it. Teach children to understand violence and it's place, understand what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in life. Education breeds knowledge and logic. Fear breeds confusion and contempt.

[SinYang]

What sex?



GTA4 never had sex in it either, unless u count a hooker screaming & rubbing up/down as sex - ?

imagine the dirty clothes.



LOL ..taking any girlfriend for coffee in gta4 was a cutscene of a noisey house

Its all childish, but its PC to get cut heads off, pick out random targets to splatter.. beat the crap out of someone with pools of blood.



Very worrying.

[Magaloo]

Slaign wrote...
Do not hide away the violence and fear it. Teach children to understand violence and it's place, understand what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in life. Education breeds knowledge and logic. Fear breeds confusion and contempt.

And it is the exact same thing with sex.  Sexual education is required, a comprehensive one that does teach both pleasures and dangers of it.  

[pathenry]

Yeah, after all, there is NO WAY that kids can get hold of this game!
Its esrb rating is a protective magic ward that will not let the DVD play for them.

And implied Beastiality is perfectly appropriate content for people of all ages anyway.

And why would those crotchety old fossils think that video games are mostly for kids? Who cares if every time they've been to Gamestop or EB Games, 90% of the customers there are under 18? Or that video games are in the 'Toys' section of many stores? Those blasted fools!

[Banana Muffin]

[quote]Slaign wrote...

[quote]Banana Muffin wrote...

Well I actually argue that sex is not bad  at all  while violence is.

And the reason why that argument comes up is because ESRB accepts violence but not the teeniest bit of sex. So obviously there are people who think sex is worse than violence and I'd like to understand how they think.
[/quote]

Violence may be bad on the level that it's never pretty. But it is necessary whether you like it or not. Violence is meerly the last resort response to a threat. It's the deciding moment, do or die, you survive or I do. It's a part of evolution. Survival without violence is an oxymoron.

Once you accept that, you have to also realize it's a responsibility. Violence is an option, but it's the last one. It's a needed tool for survival, but it's dangerous and should be avoided. There are better ways.

And that refers to real, actual violence. It needs to be accepted that sometimes you need to fight for something.

When it comes to DEPICTIONS of violence, there is no real harm. There is no inherent harm in seeing violence. Knowing it is fictional especially. When CG characters decapitate each other there is no harm done. It's the obsession over it and our fear of it that eventually hurts us. Our fear of it prevents intelligent discussion of it and it's purpose. It's not logical to fear depictions of violence. If you can accept it as fictional, and not escalate it beyond it's place.

Do not hide away the violence and fear it. Teach children to understand violence and it's place, understand what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in life. Education breeds knowledge and logic. Fear breeds confusion and contempt.

[/quot]

Well where does this threat come from if I may ask?

Also it several scientific studies has pointed towards the fact that children who are exposed to a lot of violence become more violent themselves. And a society like USA that glorifies violence is more violent than a a society that does not. America has more violent crimes per capita than Sweden and a study also showed that american toddler where much more violent towards each other that swedish toddlers.

[AiyanaLindari]

Magaloo wrote...

Slaign wrote...
Do not hide away the violence and fear it. Teach children to understand violence and it's place, understand what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in life. Education breeds knowledge and logic. Fear breeds confusion and contempt.

And it is the exact same thing with sex.  Sexual education is required, a comprehensive one that does teach both pleasures and dangers of it.  

I completely agree. I wish parents would use sex in games as a teaching opportunity, rather than simply treating it as something horrible.

[Darpaek]

That's interesting. Are you making a normative comparison between Americans and Swedes?



WTF have the Swedes done in the last 400 years?

[Banana Muffin]

Magaloo wrote...

Slaign wrote...
Do not hide away the violence and fear it. Teach children to understand violence and it's place, understand what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in life. Education breeds knowledge and logic. Fear breeds confusion and contempt.

And it is the exact same thing with sex.  Sexual education is required, a comprehensive one that does teach both pleasures and dangers of it.  

Sex has only two dangers, unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Both are easily avoided with a comdom. Education finished.

[Ancastna]

SinYang wrote...

What sex?

GTA4 never had sex in it either, unless u count a hooker screaming & rubbing up/down as sex - ?
imagine the dirty clothes.

LOL ..taking any girlfriend for coffee in gta4 was a cutscene of a noisey house
Its all childish, but its PC to get cut heads off, pick out random targets to splatter.. beat the crap out of someone with pools of blood.

Very worrying.

It wasn't so much the sex in GTA IV, it was the violence that the media hooked on and tried to blow it way out of proportion.

[Slaign]

Banana Muffin wrote...

I don't want my kid to be exposed to to much violence to early because it would tend to make her think that violence is natural and might make her more violent.

Look, I really don't want to sit here and act like I can tell people how to raise their kids. That's a recipe for disaster, people don't tend to handle other peoples opinions on that matter very well. But this is my opinion, which you seemed to be curious about, so please don't get upset.

It's that kind of logical falicy that perpetuates the problem. I don't think I can control my child's world completely and keep violence away so she doesn't accept it as part of her world. The world isn't like that, and when one day I do not govern her life and she finds all this violence I protected her from seeing now in her world, she will be confused and not know how to deal.

Further, I cannot keep it all out. She's going to catch bits and peices and she is going to be curious. But if I allow fear to keep it from being addressed and explained, then she will be left to try to understand it on her own. So she sees a bit of violence I couldn't stop her from seeing, and now I'm not there to explain it all, and this leaves confusion, which leads to the misuse of violence.

Instead of taking a passive approach and hoping that keeping violence away from her will make her just grow into a good person, I'd take an active approach, raise her in the real world, teach her about what she's seeing and teach her how she should handle it. That way she knows. Better she sees violence and is taught how to address it than I keep her sheltered and she is not prepared when the time comes.

[Darpaek]

Banana Muffin wrote...

Education finished.

Wow.  Your sex must be dull.  Maybe you need to stop spending so much time around Swedes...

[Banana Muffin]

Darpaek wrote...

That's interesting. Are you making a normative comparison between Americans and Swedes?

WTF have the Swedes done in the last 400 years?

Making love not war?

[Slaign]

Banana Muffin wrote...

Magaloo wrote...

Slaign wrote...
Do not hide away the violence and fear it. Teach children to understand violence and it's place, understand what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in life. Education breeds knowledge and logic. Fear breeds confusion and contempt.

And it is the exact same thing with sex.  Sexual education is required, a comprehensive one that does teach both pleasures and dangers of it.  

Sex has only two dangers, unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Both are easily avoided with a comdom. Education finished.

It worries me that you think it can be brushed aside that easily.

[Banana Muffin]

Darpaek wrote...

Banana Muffin wrote...

Education finished.

Wow.  Your sex must be dull.  Maybe you need to stop spending so much time around Swedes...

This is the only worded education you need, the rest is better learned by doing.

[Darpaek]

...And collaborated with the ****s? (EDIT: 80 year old German fascist regime which is apparently a cuss word...)

No, seriously - there are whole books involving sex and lots of words. If the only two "dangers" you can think of involving sex are pregnancy and disease, you should read more books with words concerning sex.

I remember my mom giving me her copy of the Joys of the Sex when I went off to college. I was a little wierded out at the time, but I appreciated the sentiment and the gift. Then I opened it and realized she had annotated the margins when she had read it at that age... THEN I WAS WIERDED OUT! LuLz!

Modifié par Darpaek, 01 décembre 2009 - 03:56 .

[Magaloo]

Darpaek wrote...
I remember my mom giving me her copy of the Joys of the Sex when I went off to college. I was a little wierded out at the time, but I appreciated the sentiment and the gift. Then I opened it and realized she had annotated the margins when she had read it at that age... THEN I WAS WIERDED OUT! LuLz!

THe Joy of Sex!! My mom had that book and it was kept on a low shelf as I was growing up.  I loved that book.  I found it two years a go in a church yard book sale of all places.  So much harm pit hair. 

[Ghandorian]

My first wife was sexually active by 13 . . . . . my second by 14. And no not with me. . . We are talking 30 years ago here. Does society consider the retardation of mental maturity as a progress? Because if a 16-18 year old is not ready to deal with introductory sexual content like we see in DAO are we really sure things are headed in the right direction?



Now GTA with running over pregnant women and hookers . . thats something all together different.

[Slaign]

Heh. The Swiss are the classic neutrals. But did you know they won their independance with a revolutionary war like we did? Did you also know, every male of 20 is required to serve in the military for a short period? Did you also know that every one of those males takes his rifle home with him, so 90% of the homes are armed?



I'd say they have a logical view on violence. They know it's necessity, but they don't revel in it's use. They train their young instead of trying to hide it away and hoping for the best.



Do you think they could remain free and neutral if it weren't for their military prowess? When Germany considered invading Switzerland in WWII, it was decided it would be foolish because the citizens were heavily armed, trained, and willing to defend themselves. That and the mountainous terrain means that Switzerland is a fortress. Peace through strength.

[Banana Muffin]

Slaign wrote...

Banana Muffin wrote...

I don't want my kid to be exposed to to much violence to early because it would tend to make her think that violence is natural and might make her more violent.

Look, I really don't want to sit here and act like I can tell people how to raise their kids. That's a recipe for disaster, people don't tend to handle other peoples opinions on that matter very well. But this is my opinion, which you seemed to be curious about, so please don't get upset.

It's that kind of logical falicy that perpetuates the problem. I don't think I can control my child's world completely and keep violence away so she doesn't accept it as part of her world. The world isn't like that, and when one day I do not govern her life and she finds all this violence I protected her from seeing now in her world, she will be confused and not know how to deal.

Further, I cannot keep it all out. She's going to catch bits and peices and she is going to be curious. But if I allow fear to keep it from being addressed and explained, then she will be left to try to understand it on her own. So she sees a bit of violence I couldn't stop her from seeing, and now I'm not there to explain it all, and this leaves confusion, which leads to the misuse of violence.

Instead of taking a passive approach and hoping that keeping violence away from her will make her just grow into a good person, I'd take an active approach, raise her in the real world, teach her about what she's seeing and teach her how she should handle it. That way she knows. Better she sees violence and is taught how to address it than I keep her sheltered and she is not prepared when the time comes.

I said I didn't want her exposed to too much violence not that I'd shelter her completey and I definitely didn't say I wouldn't talk to her about it.
My daughter is three years old so no, I don't think she is old enough to play DAO.
I don't really see how playing violent video games would be good education. It's not like she's likely to meet darmspawn.

[voidcommander9111980]

Sex and the right violence when the time is right is always nice mmmm

[stzehn]

And the reason why that argument comes up is because ESRB accepts
violence but not the teeniest bit of sex. So obviously there are people
who think sex is worse than violence and I'd like to understand how
they think.

This is a mainly amercan problem. In Europe rating would be different because we would easy accept sex scenes but not violence. For example in movies would a sex scene cause a rating as U/A (Unrestricted Public Exhibition but with parental guidance for children below 12 years).

There is a german movie "Keinohrhasen"  it includes a sex scene and a full frontal nudity scene. The initial Rating was U (Unrestricted Public Exhibition) it got a revised Rating of U/A after some parental protests. That Movie is rated in Singapore and South Korea as Adults only. I think the rating in the US would've been R as minimum. There is also free use of "f..." or "s..."words.You would almost never get a higher rating because of vulgar language.

Why is that ? It is caused in the US out of puritanism and religious fundamentalism. They are mainstream in the US and from their point of view Sex is evil.

God thanks I live in good old Europe.

Modifié par stzehn, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:14 .

[Darpaek]

@Loo Armpit hair is the funneh. This was one of the early first editions and the pages still smelled like hash 25 years later... LOL



@Ghand: Maybe you'd have fewer marriages if you stopped marrying ****s? =P



I think the Alps had more to do with German strategic thinking concerning Switzerland than the Swiss espirit du corps... that and Switzerland's defacto capitulation, and it was a handy place for senior German officials to stash their ill-gotten loot from both their own government and a potential foreign victor down the road...

[Slaign]

Banana Muffin wrote...

I said I didn't want her exposed to too much violence not that I'd shelter her completey and I definitely didn't say I wouldn't talk to her about it.
My daughter is three years old so no, I don't think she is old enough to play DAO.
I don't really see how playing violent video games would be good education. It's not like she's likely to meet darmspawn.

And I never said that your 3 year old daughter should play DAO. I said you shouldn't fear for such a case. If you look back at what I actually wrote in previous posts, I said if they are old enough to be curious, they are old enough to learn. Your daughter isn't interested in DAO. She's not curious about it because she doesn't yet have a cursory understanding of it. The extent of her interest in the game is that you are playing it, if that.

So no, I don't think your 3 year old daughter should be playing DAO, and I never indicated that. However, I don't think her seeing mommy or daddy slaying darkspawn in a video game is going to effect her development. If it does, and if it's handled well, it could effect her positively. Maybe if she sees you slaying darkspawn and asks "What's that?" and you honestly answer "A video game." and she says "Are you hurting those people?" and you answer honestly again "They aren't real people so it's OK, games aren't real, hurting real people is bad." Maybe that would give her the proper perspective on what fiction and reality is and what is acceptable in each. Likely, she would just accept it quietly and go on playing with her toys that interest her. Then maybe one day she will make you grin with pride when she interjects in a conversation your having with a friend about your new video game that "It's ok cause it's a game but hurting real people is bad."

We give kids a lot less credit for being able to understand things than we should.

[LynxAQ]

kevinwastaken wrote...

Dragon Age is for the kids. If kids see sex in Dragon Age, they might have sex in real life. VERY dangerous.

You might wanna check your facts. Last time I checked Dragon Age: Origins was rated 18, aka not for kids as you so claim. So any parent buying the game for their 12 year old has no foot to stand on and complain about the "sex" in this game. BTW last time I also checked there was only cuddle scenes etc, no actual sex scenes in this game...

What also always makes me laugh is you talk about the sex in the game, yet there is none, but for some reason people don't seem to think the violence is bad... I love this game but if we are going to get pendantic, please at least get pendantic over the right things.