512 réponses à ce sujet

[Banana Muffin]

Slaign wrote...

Banana Muffin wrote...

Magaloo wrote...

Slaign wrote...
Do not hide away the violence and fear it. Teach children to understand violence and it's place, understand what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in life. Education breeds knowledge and logic. Fear breeds confusion and contempt.

And it is the exact same thing with sex.  Sexual education is required, a comprehensive one that does teach both pleasures and dangers of it.  

Sex has only two dangers, unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Both are easily avoided with a comdom. Education finished.

It worries me that you think it can be brushed aside that easily.

Then please educate me of all the dangers with sex that I have
obviously of pure luck managed to avoid in my 15 years of being
sexually active

[hellodie]

Nowadays sex is absolutely everywhere. You can throw all the wise words about sexual education or whatever, it's not actually the topic at hand.

The topic is that sex is everywhere. And it's direly annoying. I'd like to see sexual/sensual content when I WANT to see sexual/sensual content. I'm tired of it being slammed in my face. It's especially saddening that advertisers think they MUST put sex in their movie/game/commercial/shampoo bottle in order to sell better. I don't want to see sex that was added in a "product" to sell better. I want to see sexual/sensual content where it's without a doubt appropriate, when it actually fits the big scheme.

Romance is fine. Kissing is fine. Passion is fine. Raw sex is not when it's as widespread as it has become. It's EVERYWHERE. That's what sucks since, again, sometimes it is very appropriate.

Nowadays sex rhymes with the image of an overly intrusive vendor who's just about as annoying as a stupid, barking pug. THAT is the problem.

Modifié par hellodie, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:22 .

[Slaign]

Banana Muffin wrote...

Then please educate me of all the dangers with sex that I have
obviously of pure luck managed to avoid in my 15 years of being
sexually active

There's no emotional dangers at all, then, right? They may not be physical, but the emotional aspects of sex and relationships are nearly as dangerous and not as easily protected against. What about exploitation? Social perceptions? There's a lot more to understanding sex than wearing a condom.

[Magaloo]

[quote]Banana Muffin wrote...

Sex has only two dangers, unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Both are easily avoided with a comdom. Education finished.


[/quote]

It worries me that you think it can be brushed aside that easily.

[/quote]

Then please educate me of all the dangers with sex that I have
obviously of pure luck managed to avoid in my 15 years of being
sexually active

[/quote]

Well HPV and Chlamydia can happen with skin on skin contact so a condom does help in those cases but there is also a lot of psychological dangers.  Some guilt over some descision, some over sexualisation at a young age and so on.  I am really not in the "save yourself camp"  but I do think that "safe sane and consensual"  needs sometimes to be explained more.

And that concludes this sex ed chapter on a video game forum!

Modifié par Magaloo, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:26 .

[Darpaek]

stzehn wrote...


This is a mainly amercan problem. In Europe rating would be different because we would easy accept sex scenes but not violence. For example in movies would a sex scene cause a rating as U/A (Unrestricted Public Exhibition but with parental guidance for children below 12 years).

There is a german movie "Keinohrhasen"  it includes a sex scene and a full frontal nudity scene. The initial Rating was U (Unrestricted Public Exhibition) it got a revised Rating of U/A after some parental protests. That Movie is rated in Singapore and South Korea as Adults only. I think the rating in the US would've been R as minimum. There is also free use of "f..." or "s..."words.You would almost never get a higher rating because of vulgar language.

Why is that ? It is caused in the US out of puritanism and religious fundamentalism. They are mainstream in the US and from their point of view Sex is evil.

God thanks I live in good old Europe.

Yeah right?  You wanna know the difference between your "Good Ole Europe" and America?  That same movie would probably be rated R.  You know what that means in America?  Absolutely nothing.  The rating system comes from an independent, private body for the service of the public good.  Movie theatres voluntarily participate in a rating system that screens viewing to ages.  Different theatres in different parts of the country can choose how to exhibit a rated movie to the public.

The German government, on the hand, chooses what is and is not acceptable for "Unrestricted Public Exhibition."

So you can take your "Good Ole Europe" and shove it up your ass.  You can't even concieve of the American concept of individual liberty.  I can be as personally vile as I want - I can fly a swastika in might front yard if I so chose - without the government telling me that my particular depravity is unacceptable.

I'll take private society whining about sex, anyday.

[Slaign]

hellodie wrote...

Nowadays sex is absolutely everywhere. You can throw all the wise words about sexual education or whatever, it's not actually the topic at hand.

The topic is that sex is everywhere. And it's direly annoying. I'd like to see sexual/sensual content when I WANT to see sexual/sensual content. I'm tired of it being slammed in my face. It's especially saddening that advertisers think they MUST put sex in their movie/game/commercial/shampoo bottle in order to sell better. I don't want to see sex that was added in a "product" to sell better. I want to see sexual/sensual content where it's without a doubt appropriate, when it actually fits the big scheme.

Romance is fine. Kissing is fine. Passion is fine. Raw sex is not when it's as widespread as it has become. It's EVERYWHERE. That's what sucks since, again, sometimes it is very appropriate.

Nowadays sex rhymes with the image of an overly intrusive vendor who's just about as annoying as a stupid, barking pug. THAT is the problem.

That's another effect of the taboo. We all want it, but it's fobidden. So we squeeze in these teasing images and references to it, skirt the line of whats appropriate and give teases of what we all know we want. This makes it a pursued thing, something advertisers can use to lure. Instead of just having sex where it's appropriate, and addressing it fully and unmodestly, we spread vague and tantalizing bits all throughout our society.

[Darpaek]

Magaloo wrote...

Banana Muffin wrote...

Then please educate me of all the dangers with sex that I have
obviously of pure luck managed to avoid in my 15 years of being
sexually active

Well HPV and Chlamydia can happen with skin on skin contact so a condom does help in those cases but there is also a lot of psychological dangers.  Some guilt over some descision, some over sexualisation at a young age and so on.  I am really not in the "save yourself camp"  but I do think that "safe sane and consensual"  needs sometimes to be explained more.

And that concludes this sex ed chapter on a video game forum!

There's also the dangers of being choked to death as your suspended from a harness...

Like I said earlier, read more books with words about sex. 

Modifié par Darpaek, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:29 .

[Banana Muffin]

stzehn wrote...

And the reason why that argument comes up is because ESRB accepts
violence but not the teeniest bit of sex. So obviously there are people
who think sex is worse than violence and I'd like to understand how
they think.

This is a mainly amercan problem. In Europe rating would be different because we would easy accept sex scenes but not violence. For example in movies would a sex scene cause a rating as U/A (Unrestricted Public Exhibition but with parental guidance for children below 12 years).

There is a german movie "Keinohrhasen"  it includes a sex scene and a full frontal nudity scene. The initial Rating was U (Unrestricted Public Exhibition) it got a revised Rating of U/A after some parental protests. That Movie is rated in Singapore and South Korea as Adults only. I think the rating in the US would've been R as minimum. There is also free use of "f..." or "s..."words.You would almost never get a higher rating because of vulgar language.

Why is that ? It is caused in the US out of puritanism and religious fundamentalism. They are mainstream in the US and from their point of view Sex is evil.

God thanks I live in good old Europe.

Well unfortunately it affects us anyway since the US is the biggest market and every game has to work there.

Also it's interesting to note that the PEGI rating that we have also do place more weight on sexual contents than violence it's just that they are not as extreme as ESRB. For ESRB exposed boobs are equvialent to someone being dismembered, fed his limbs, and then set on fire, while for PEGI it would probably take at least an implied intercourse to get the same rating.

[Ghandorian]

In Canada it is much less about the visual and more about the implied act. That is how the law works for public nudity anyway. A woman is allowed to walk in public with no shirt provided she is not Selling sex.



I think the sex in DAO is about people and not violence or done with any dark intent. And the intent is the only legitimate issue. Teens will not develop the maturity to deal with these issues until they have the opportunity to deal with them. this whole line of crap about keeping a kid in a bubble until they turn 18 is ridiculous. It is resulting in way too many problems.



The human body is sexually mature far earlier than the current social environment allows it to be. You can't just say, "well we think people should work like this" People work the way they do from a physical standpoint and society needs to conform to that time-line.

[Aidunno]

Always find it hilarious.. sex sells.. music industry uses it left right and center for instance but show a nipple and oh no....The human body naked is quite laughable, there is a reason lingerie is so popular.... Just some people's attitude is one of "what is natural must be hidden".



Killing people, splattering blood guts and gore all over the place, that's fine of course.

[Ancastna]

Slaign wrote...

Banana Muffin wrote...

Then please educate me of all the dangers with sex that I have
obviously of pure luck managed to avoid in my 15 years of being
sexually active

There's no emotional dangers at all, then, right? They may not be physical, but the emotional aspects of sex and relationships are nearly as dangerous and not as easily protected against. What about exploitation? Social perceptions? There's a lot more to understanding sex than wearing a condom.

When I was younger we also talked about family planning, the contraception that was right for us, and when we thought was the right time to start being sexually active. I agree with Slaign. There is a lot more to sex and relationships than that.

[hellodie]

Slaign wrote...

That's another effect of the taboo.
We all want it, but it's fobidden. So we squeeze in these teasing
images and references to it, skirt the line of whats appropriate and
give teases of what we all know we want. This makes it a pursued thing,
something advertisers can use to lure. Instead of just having sex where
it's appropriate, and addressing it fully and unmodestly, we spread
vague and tantalizing bits all throughout our society.

See no disrepect in that, but that's a post-fact analysis made from a comfortable chair, Slaign.

In reality, on the battle field if I may say, advertisers didn't make this analysis. They haven't been vertuous people trying to tantalize in the hope it would make our lives more "salty". They just want to sell their stuff, and they noticed that sex was good at that. Just look at music clips, they're the worst of that kind.

Isn't it tiring for you to see some woman with delighted expressions, moving sensually on a bed, barely clothed at all......to advertise COFFEE?

Sex for sells. That's the trend nowadays. I want sex or sensuality when there's actually an appropriate reason; and that does include "vague and tantalizing" bits, it's not necessary to be thorough every time ain't it?

I feel that anyone using sex for sells is just lowering himself, prostituting being the term I had in mind first (admittedly a bit tough).

Modifié par hellodie, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:40 .

[stzehn]

Also it's interesting to note that the PEGI rating that we have also do place more weight on sexual contents than violence it's just that they are not as extreme as ESRB. For ESRB exposed boobs are equvialent to someone being dismembered, fed his limbs, and then set on fire, while for PEGI it would probably take at least an implied intercourse to get the same rating.

The german rating causes on the other hand problems as well because violence is rated extreme. If there is a single drop of blood to be seen it garanties a rating Adults only. Because of that many games are published in Germany without blood or recolored blood (mostly green). But i can live with that or use a blood patch  

[Ancastna]

Darpaek wrote...


So you can take your "Good Ole Europe" and shove it up your ass.  You can't even concieve of the American concept of individual liberty.  I can be as personally vile as I want - I can fly a swastika in might front yard if I so chose - without the government telling me that my particular depravity is unacceptable.

I'll take private society whining about sex, anyday.

Listen, this is not about our differences. This is getting way too personal.

[TileToad]

hellodie wrote...

Nowadays sex is absolutely everywhere. You can throw all the wise words about sexual education or whatever, it's not actually the topic at hand.

The topic is that sex is everywhere. And it's direly annoying. I'd like to see sexual/sensual content when I WANT to see sexual/sensual content. I'm tired of it being slammed in my face. It's especially saddening that advertisers think they MUST put sex in their movie/game/commercial/shampoo bottle in order to sell better. I don't want to see sex that was added in a "product" to sell better. I want to see sexual/sensual content where it's without a doubt appropriate, when it actually fits the big scheme.

Romance is fine. Kissing is fine. Passion is fine. Raw sex is not when it's as widespread as it has become. It's EVERYWHERE. That's what sucks since, again, sometimes it is very appropriate.

Nowadays sex rhymes with the image of an overly intrusive vendor who's just about as annoying as a stupid, barking pug. THAT is the problem.

The same can be said about violence.

[Ghandorian]

Darpaek wrote...

stzehn wrote...


This is a mainly amercan problem. In Europe rating would be different because we would easy accept sex scenes but not violence. For example in movies would a sex scene cause a rating as U/A (Unrestricted Public Exhibition but with parental guidance for children below 12 years).

There is a german movie "Keinohrhasen"  it includes a sex scene and a full frontal nudity scene. The initial Rating was U (Unrestricted Public Exhibition) it got a revised Rating of U/A after some parental protests. That Movie is rated in Singapore and South Korea as Adults only. I think the rating in the US would've been R as minimum. There is also free use of "f..." or "s..."words.You would almost never get a higher rating because of vulgar language.

Why is that ? It is caused in the US out of puritanism and religious fundamentalism. They are mainstream in the US and from their point of view Sex is evil.

God thanks I live in good old Europe.

Yeah right?  You wanna know the difference between your "Good Ole Europe" and America?  That same movie would probably be rated R.  You know what that means in America?  Absolutely nothing.  The rating system comes from an independent, private body for the service of the public good.  Movie theatres voluntarily participate in a rating system that screens viewing to ages.  Different theatres in different parts of the country can choose how to exhibit a rated movie to the public.

The German government, on the hand, chooses what is and is not acceptable for "Unrestricted Public Exhibition."

So you can take your "Good Ole Europe" and shove it up your ass.  You can't even concieve of the American concept of individual liberty.  I can be as personally vile as I want - I can fly a swastika in might front yard if I so chose - without the government telling me that my particular depravity is unacceptable.

I'll take private society whining about sex, anyday.

Umm yea you wont be put on a FBI watch list and have your e-mails and phone monitored or anything like that?

but the point of discussion here is sex and it is an interesting note that Canada just passes a law requiring all ISP's to report any child porn activity or face prosecution for supporting it. Things are evolving. Society is catching up to the computer medium and laws are being put on the books as we speak.

The sex in dao is not gratuitous or deviant in any manner. The intent of the scenes is within acceptable social norms for all but the most hardline religious fanatics. The desire demons are more of a boundary issue then the character relations.

[hellodie]

Mostly agreed TileToad, though it hasn't stroke me as much yet. May be that I don't live in the same country.

[Darpaek]

Then these Europeans need to NOT blame American society because Morrigan's wearing a bra during a 20 second sex cutscene!



You know what else? The ESRB is private, and not government enforced, either. Again, most stores voluntarily chose to enforce ESRB ratings. We're not the Aussies who banned whole games outright from sale in their country!



To harp on American society because Americans chose to govern their own conduct free of government intervention is enraging! Whatever faults our society may have - liberty and responsibility trump their heavy-handed garbage ANYDAY.

[bethanyw]

It's about as hot as watching Family Guy, come on people

[Slaign]

hellodie wrote...

Slaign wrote...

That's another effect of the taboo.
We all want it, but it's fobidden. So we squeeze in these teasing
images and references to it, skirt the line of whats appropriate and
give teases of what we all know we want. This makes it a pursued thing,
something advertisers can use to lure. Instead of just having sex where
it's appropriate, and addressing it fully and unmodestly, we spread
vague and tantalizing bits all throughout our society.

See no disrepect in that, but that's a post-fact analysis made from a comfortable chair, Slaign.

In reality, on the battle field if I may say, advertisers didn't make this analysis. They haven't been vertuous people trying to tantalize in the hope it would make our lives more "salty". They just want to sell their stuff, and they noticed that sex was good at that. Just look at music clips, they're the worst of that kind.

Isn't it tiring for you to see some woman with delighted expressions, moving sensually on a bed, barely clothed at all......to advertise COFFEE?

Sex for sells. That's the trend nowadays. I want sex or sensuality when there's actually an appropriate reason; and that does include "vague and tantalizing" bits, it's not necessary to be thorough every time ain't it?

I feel that anyone using sex for sells is just lowering himself, prostituting being the term I had in mind first (admittedly a bit tough).

Oh I agree. I'm just saying that the reason it works is it's taboo. If sex were completely acceptable where appropriate, we would seek it where it's appropriate. But it's not, so we seek bits, peices, and glances everywhere. Of course the people who seek a way to manipulate us latched on to that. I'm demonizing the issue, not justifying it, trust me. I just mean that sex is the victim not the problem.

[fro7k]

There was no sex in DA:O because penetration cannot occur while wearing underpants.

[Darpaek]

That's an interesting analysis...



At 16, my girlfriend and I too thought that if we kept our underpants on that would prevent penetration. Boy... were we wrong... LOL

[TileToad]

hellodie wrote...

Mostly agreed TileToad, though it hasn't stroke me as much yet. May be that I don't live in the same country.

To be perfectly honest, it's not the sex or violence that's tiring to me, it's the incessant media that carries it.
If we wouldn't be bombarded by all the media crap every day, we wouldn't be exposed to it so much either.

[hellodie]

fro7k, it can lol you can move the clothy parts on the side.

Slaign and TileToad...yes that's the summarize, sex is the victim not the problem.

Modifié par hellodie, 01 décembre 2009 - 05:03 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Its all the right-wing Christian watchdog groups, really. God doesn't have an issue with killing (thou shall not kill?), but once a nipple is flashed he apparently throws a hissyfit according to these people.