367 réponses à ce sujet

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

Iwillbeback wrote...

Skypain wrote...



My Shepard was never was at the Arriva, i never took part on that mission (dont have the DLC). In the GR room it is said that a marine division took out the relay. So how did my Shepard get indoc, space magic ? 

We know that soldiers can experience trauma, couldnt shepard been traumatized/stressed by his experience from ME1 to 2? And the reason that he saw a child is becuase it is more dramatic that way? 

Doesn't matter, it is Canon.
Arrival is why shepard was grounded and held on earth.

Unless BioWare steps out and says: Yes Shepard was Indoctronated it is NOT CANON. Sorry folks but your wrong about that.

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

Skypain wrote...



My Shepard was never was at the Arriva, i never took part on that mission (dont have the DLC). In the GR room it is said that a marine division took out the relay. So how did my Shepard get indoc, space magic ? 

We know that soldiers can experience trauma, couldnt shepard been traumatized/stressed by his experience from ME1 to 2? And the reason that he saw a child is becuase it is more dramatic that way? 

Doesn't matter, it is Canon.
Arrival is why shepard was grounded and held on earth.

Unless BioWare steps out and says: Yes Shepard was Indoctronated it is NOT CANON. Sorry folks but your wrong about that.

It is fanon not canon

[Walsh1980]

To me the worst possible thing they could do is an "it was all a dream" excuse. And when they don't, please be calm about it theory people.

[JesseLee202]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

Skypain wrote...



My Shepard was never was at the Arriva, i never took part on that mission (dont have the DLC). In the GR room it is said that a marine division took out the relay. So how did my Shepard get indoc, space magic ? 

We know that soldiers can experience trauma, couldnt shepard been traumatized/stressed by his experience from ME1 to 2? And the reason that he saw a child is becuase it is more dramatic that way? 

Doesn't matter, it is Canon.
Arrival is why shepard was grounded and held on earth.

Unless BioWare steps out and says: Yes Shepard was Indoctronated it is NOT CANON. Sorry folks but your wrong about that.

It is fanon not canon

I think he meant that Arrival is canon, because right now IT is still just a theory. One that makes a lot more sense than 

[Iwillbeback]

Yeah Arrival is Canon.
Someone said about someone else doing arrival, I don't know I'm pretty sure shepard does it regardless of wherever you got the DLC or not.
If someone else did then it wouldn't make sense for shepard to be grounded on earth.

Modifié par Iwillbeback, 25 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

Skypain wrote...



My Shepard was never was at the Arriva, i never took part on that mission (dont have the DLC). In the GR room it is said that a marine division took out the relay. So how did my Shepard get indoc, space magic ? 

We know that soldiers can experience trauma, couldnt shepard been traumatized/stressed by his experience from ME1 to 2? And the reason that he saw a child is becuase it is more dramatic that way? 

Doesn't matter, it is Canon.
Arrival is why shepard was grounded and held on earth.

Unless BioWare steps out and says: Yes Shepard was Indoctronated it is NOT CANON. Sorry folks but your wrong about that.

It is fanon not canon

I think he meant that Arrival is canon, because right now IT is still just a theory. One that makes a lot more sense than 

Now it doesn't. First all the prothean tech that survives is resistant to Indoced indaviduals, and if Shep is Indoced WHY do they talk to HIM/HER?

[ImmovableMover]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

Skypain wrote...



My Shepard was never was at the Arriva, i never took part on that mission (dont have the DLC). In the GR room it is said that a marine division took out the relay. So how did my Shepard get indoc, space magic ? 

We know that soldiers can experience trauma, couldnt shepard been traumatized/stressed by his experience from ME1 to 2? And the reason that he saw a child is becuase it is more dramatic that way? 

Doesn't matter, it is Canon.
Arrival is why shepard was grounded and held on earth.

Unless BioWare steps out and says: Yes Shepard was Indoctronated it is NOT CANON. Sorry folks but your wrong about that.

It is fanon not canon

I think he meant that Arrival is canon, because right now IT is still just a theory. One that makes a lot more sense than 

Arrival is Canon, Bioware have stated as much. Same Deal with lair of the Shadow Broker.

[Apollo-XL5]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

Skypain wrote...



My Shepard was never was at the Arriva, i never took part on that mission (dont have the DLC). In the GR room it is said that a marine division took out the relay. So how did my Shepard get indoc, space magic ? 

We know that soldiers can experience trauma, couldnt shepard been traumatized/stressed by his experience from ME1 to 2? And the reason that he saw a child is becuase it is more dramatic that way? 

Doesn't matter, it is Canon.
Arrival is why shepard was grounded and held on earth.

Unless BioWare steps out and says: Yes Shepard was Indoctronated it is NOT CANON. Sorry folks but your wrong about that.

It is fanon not canon

I dont get why people are saying that he was indoctrinated right then.  I think that moment he was touched by the reaper artifact only opened his mind to the reapers and from that moment to the very end of ME3 the reapers were slowly wearing his mental state down.  Think about it, shep is a very strong willed person, but the amount of s**t that he goes through and the people he loses would take its toll and leave him open to the reapers influcence.  THe reapers would have to be patient and do it very slowly so that shep wouldnt question any of it.

[JesseLee202]

The whole point of the theory is that the reapers TRY to indoc Shep at the end, all those dreams are subtle and its a safe assumption that VI's can't always detect sleeper agents. The entire part after the beam is a battle for his mind. You need to read up on the theory before you start a thread against it...

[Apollo-XL5]

The reapers know that killing shepard wont help them , because there will be someone to take his place (one of his friends) so the reapers would rather control him, because as it says in the codex,

"if a highly placed political or military leader were to be in docrinated, the repercussions would be catastrophic.

[JesseLee202]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

The reapers know that killing shepard wont help them , because there will be someone to take his place (one of his friends) so the reapers would rather control him, because as it says in the codex,

"if a highly placed political or military leader were to be in docrinated, the repercussions would be catastrophic.

Indoc is also a weapon that can destroy morale, Javik explains that the Reapers used there own children againts them.

[thegame30]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

But the Indoc theory creates even more holes than it solves, so it is no better.

The way i see it so is leaving the endings as they are. One perfect example the Arrival DLC.
Mass relay destruction means the entire system is destroy.

[Apollo-XL5]

THe reapers want to put order over chaos so control is their main objective. They dont want to destroy all organic life but to harvest it. I believe that part of what the starchild/harbinger tells shepard. You know give him some truth intertwined in the lies so that it is easier for him to believe.

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

ImmovableMover wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

Skypain wrote...



My Shepard was never was at the Arriva, i never took part on that mission (dont have the DLC). In the GR room it is said that a marine division took out the relay. So how did my Shepard get indoc, space magic ? 

We know that soldiers can experience trauma, couldnt shepard been traumatized/stressed by his experience from ME1 to 2? And the reason that he saw a child is becuase it is more dramatic that way? 

Doesn't matter, it is Canon.
Arrival is why shepard was grounded and held on earth.

Unless BioWare steps out and says: Yes Shepard was Indoctronated it is NOT CANON. Sorry folks but your wrong about that.

It is fanon not canon

I think he meant that Arrival is canon, because right now IT is still just a theory. One that makes a lot more sense than 

Arrival is Canon, Bioware have stated as much. Same Deal with lair of the Shadow Broker.

I understand that, but to say Shep was Indoced in Arrival is saying Rapid Indoc which would only last a couple of weeks or so not the Months between Arrival and the start of ME3

[JesseLee202]

OP, you should at least try to understand the theory before you start hating on it. I personally believe BW didn't plan for IT, but it is really the best course of action to salvage whats left of the franchise.

[curdy]

in my opinon the person who created the indoc theory should be hired by bioware to sort this out lol

[JesseLee202]

curdy wrote...

in my opinon the person who created the indoc theory should be hired by bioware to sort this out lol

lol indeed. My first reaction to the end was "NOPE that was a dream! Shep wakes up in Huerta with his LI!"

[dmickeyc]

Never read too much into the whole indoctrination theory, but at a glance, it appears to be sometrhing like the old 80s-90s action hero kind of ending, like Die Hard or something, where the Hero survives against overwhelming odds...
Well, we already had a ME2 suicide mission, where, no one died...
Sacrifice is a major theme of ME3, so Shepard becoming a martyr (sort of) follows this theme.
Well except for renegade Shep where survival at all costs seems to be the modus operandi...

It does seem the only way to please everyone is to create DLC for every eventuality, but overall that is economically unsound...

[InsaneAzrael]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

Now it doesn't. First all the prothean tech that survives is resistant to Indoced indaviduals, and if Shep is Indoced WHY do they talk to HIM/HER?

I'm here for the banter.
Let's talk about Shepard and his "upgrades" through the series.
ME1 - Shepard gets the Prothean Cypher uploaded into his brain
ME2 - Shepard is rez'd by Project Lazarus and implanted with tech (possibly Cerberus reaper tech)
ME2/3 Epilogue/Prologue: Arrival - Shepard is knocked out for Hours/Days in the vicinity of object rho.

So if Shep has the Prothean Cypher he can interface with Prothean tech.
In the first game Saren was indoctrinated but could interface with Protean Beacons. Saren (indoctrinated) also had the cipher and interacted with Vigil on Ilos.

Shepard may have been embedded with Reaper tech (cerberus standard practice) as well as numerous exposures to dormant and active reaper tech throughout the game. Why not indoctrinated? Who knows?

Arrival: Shepard's full exposure and knock out could have been the initiation of the sleeper agent indoctrination process. The more long term form which may require a "stronger mind" to resist. Benezia and Saren both note the subtlty of the process. Both characters appear to be powerful and influential.

In the third game we are exposed to Anderson and EDI both making reference to indoctrination of high-ranking humans. When the humans are being herded, it notes the Reapers getting the leaders together for "talks" and indoctrinating them.  Even Javik (the prothean) notes the process.

On Thessia, the VI DOES make reference to an indoctrinated presence being detected. Then this cuts to Kai Leng. But after all it is just a machine. One which later has its security protocols deactivated. So they are not fool-proof.

As for the use of indoctrination as a subplot not only in the games but also the peripheral literature. Then dropping this plot is yet another failure in the writing really. It means the juggling act of plot (reapers) /sub-plot (indoc.) is being poorly handled together.

You get to the present ending with the clear message "Shepard you have become an annoyance, you fight against inevitability" www.youtube.com/watch

[DemGeth]

Yes....just what bsn needs.....being against more things.

[JesseLee202]

dmickeyc wrote...

Never read too much into the whole indoctrination theory, but at a glance, it appears to be sometrhing like the old 80s-90s action hero kind of ending, like Die Hard or something, where the Hero survives against overwhelming odds...
Well, we already had a ME2 suicide mission, where, no one died...
Sacrifice is a major theme of ME3, so Shepard becoming a martyr (sort of) follows this theme.
Well except for renegade Shep where survival at all costs seems to be the modus operandi...

It does seem the only way to please everyone is to create DLC for every eventuality, but overall that is economically unsound...

Well, depending on how you play almost everyone can die. There was a good post explaing why Shep is not a tragic hero, (can't find it) It seems outta place for a lot of people that he dies.

[Ricvenart]

Did you just quote and reply to yourself?

We get it Kylie, you don't like it. But you aren't making a good case or coming off well with the low blows and putting your fingers in your ears goings "na na na I can't hear you".
I'm not going to attempt to point to signs on a theory that goes against you, but you calling everyone crazy or religious for liking it isn't going to change my mind either.

Btw, Arrival happened, but not always with Shep, I'd guess he's being held on charges for Treason if you didn't do it for working with Cerberus.
@Azreal: Saren didn't interact with Vigil iirc, he didn't reveal himself to Saren because he sensed his deep indoctrination.
See theres something to help you.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 25 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

curdy wrote...

in my opinon the person who created the indoc theory should be hired by bioware to sort this out lol

LOL I agree so they can hammer out what the hell to do with as an alternate BAD (as in you did everything wrong) ending.

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

Ricvenart wrote...

Did you just quote and reply to yourself?

We get it Kylie, you don't like it. But you aren't making a good case or coming off well with the low blows and putting your fingers in your ears goings "na na na I can't hear you".
I'm not going to attempt to point to signs on a theory that goes against you, but you calling everyone crazy or religious for liking it isn't going to change my mind either.

Btw, Arrival happened, but not always with Shep, I'd guess he's being held on charges for Treason if you didn't do it for working with Cerberus.
@Azreal: Saren didn't interact with Vigil iirc, he didn't reveal himself to Saren because he sensed his deep indoctrination.
See theres something to help you.

Yes because I left something out

[dmickeyc]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Well, depending on how you play almost everyone can die. There was a good post explaing why Shep is not a tragic hero, (can't find it) It seems outta place for a lot of people that he dies.

Ah, right.. I think I forgot about that... And assumed most people would play through the suicide mission for maximum surival rate.
I think I just remembered why I played through ME2 so many times now...

And well, self-sacrifice doesn't necessarily = tragic hero. It'd be tragic is Shepard tried and failed, which actually, is one of the options of the ending sequence that makes more sense than the rest! Except for the the stargazer epilogue that doesn't seem to tie in with anything...