367 réponses à ce sujet

[spz123]

As much as some members of this forum might like it, I seriously doubt Bioware are going to excise the Starchild scene. Therefore, the indoctrination theory would in my eyes, the only way that can remain but for the story to reach a satisfying conclusion.

It uses an idea that is already part of the ME lore to undo the Starchild mess. An alternative? It was all a dream. Now that would be a big story telling no-no.

After indoctrination has been broken, another mission can be added to conclude the story. This could even include the War Assets you've been collecting all game to make a difference to the eventual outcome.

[Namz89]

Let's just agree on that they should create different endings, where out decisions in the past games have an noticeable and logical effect (like they promised).<_<

The Indoctrination Theory was created by trying to make sense out of all the strange things that happen at the end, in hope that this was one (more or less) satisfying explanation to pave the way for the promised endings.

So, put shortly, the indoctrination theory tries to raise a connection between the current ending and the (maybe) coming alternate "true" endings. The theory is not the ending, but the beginning, a possibility to end the Mass Effect series right.

Modifié par Namz89, 24 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Warden130 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

There is plenty resistance. It's just tiring to combat the level of sheer denial of IT proponents. They seem to think if they say it long enough it'll suddenly be true.

This statement reminds me the take back Mass Effect "movement". Say "Hold the line" enough and Bioware will change the endings .

There's a difference between pushing for something to change and telling everyone you can that it's already there.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 24 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[BlackAlpha]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

I love that BioWare is listening to us, but I think that those of us that don't believe in the Indoctronization theory need to stand up, before our favorite game is destroyed by an ending we don't want. I mean how many of us are there? Since BioWare listens to these forms and it seems to be drowning in this Indoc Theory we may be given that without our voice being heard right?

There's no way Bioware will make such a dramatic change to the game. They have no reason to do so. Bioware has already stated that the endings are what they are. They can now only make the endings a bit more clear. So, you have nothing to worry about.

The indoctrination theorists are simply people who cannot accept that the endings are the real endings. So they fool themselves because it makes them feel better. Just let them dream inside their imaginary world, I say.

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 24 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[Dreogan]

My problem right now is indoctrination gives credit to Bioware when they absolutely do not deserve it. They might deserve it in the future, but at this present time and with what is currently in the game they do not deserve any credit for this ending.

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

As for why I think it causes more holes: 1 Vigil would not have responded to Shep if he/she was even in the begining stages of Indoc. 2 Shepard DIED in the begining of ME2 whic wipes out any Indoc that had been don to her/him. 3 He/She spent maybe in total two and a half hours in the presence of a fully grown reaper in ME2, and even less time in the presence of a Reaper embryo. 4. The idea that the little boy he/she sees is a halucination caused by the Reapers is just as poor as the holes you are trying to solve. Finally 5. The headaches Shep had towards the end of ME3 were all in the last 10 Min what everyone did not like so again BAD IDEA. Any more question?

[ZiegenkonigIII]

petipas4141 wrote...

i think everyone who dislikes the ending should just stand together

intended ending = very poor

indoctrination = incomplete game

the one thing everyone can agree on is that we do not like the endings. Thus, we should just agree to disagree.

I share this belief.

However, it still doesn't change the fact that making posts like this even further divides the gap between the two, and that both are viable especially given the ending as it is.

[Tiax Rules All]

Penitent wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

[I]t is still thier best option going forward.

According to whom? You? What Reaper army made you arbiter of ending options? Making IT "the" story is, indubitably, the worst possible thing that could happen to this franchise.

Pre-IT: Ending sucks.

Post-IT: Ending still sucks, but now has convoluted malarkey justifying its suckiness. 

I dont know what you want here, but IDT allows for a DLC ending with no re-write...
It doesnt make the ending we have better. not at all really, it makes the ending we have a NON-ending
you seem to think IDT is meant to be the ending. its just a segue into IDT DLC.
and no, its not indubitably the worst possible thing that could happen. Dial it back a notch.

[vAzn]

guys with the whole ffxiii-2 n7 dlc costume and all I think it's the same deal as to be continue only they choose to leave it out so people wont **** about it not being complete. Wait for DLC and just leave it alone for now and accept it for what it is.

[Tiax Rules All]

Namz89 wrote...

Let's just agree on that they should create different endings, where out decisions in the past games have an noticeable and logical effect (like they promised).<_<

The Indoctrination Theory was created by trying to make sense out of all the strange things that happen at the end, in hope that this was one (more or less) satisfying explanation to pave the way for the promised endings.

So, put shortly, the indoctrination theory tries to raise a connection between the current ending and the (maybe) coming alternate "true" endings. The theory is not the ending, but the beginning, a possibility to end the Mass Effect series right.

Exactly, OP is missing that point.
IDT is not a current ending explaination as it is a cliffhanger to the DLC ending.

[Randalf84]

IDT is like the Crucible, we don't know what it'll do it gets used, buts it is our best, perhaps only, option.

[Warden130]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

There is plenty resistance. It's just tiring to combat the level of sheer denial of IT proponents. They seem to think if they say it long enough it'll suddenly be true.

This statement reminds me the take back Mass Effect "movement". Say "Hold the line" enough and Bioware will change the endings .

There's a difference between pushing for something to change and telling everyone you can that it's already there.

The evidence is there, buried in the data. But despite that, yes it is still just a theory and I agree that there is no guarantee that the indoctrination theory is true. There is some people who will try to force the theory on others but they are no better than people saying that anyone who believe in this theory is delusional.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

I love that BioWare is listening to us, but I think that those of us that don't believe in the Indoctronization theory need to stand up, before our favorite game is destroyed by an ending we don't want.

Bioware has said that they're not going to change the intent of their ending, merely clarify and add additional closure. There's no reason to think they're not telling the truth about that. So, if they run with the Indoctrination Theory, it's because they always planned it, and your favorite game was already destroyed.

Same logic goes to the ITists who will cry all over the place if they are wrong.

[Aiyie]

I would suggest anyone who doesn't like the indoc theory develop something to counter it.

I'm not talking about simply disproving it, im talking about an alternative.  Like it, or hate it, it seems like they are the only ones looking for a way to solve the ending problem, or at least give Bioware an easy way to give us a real ending without scrapping everything they've already done.

Most of the indoc theory haters I've seen on these forums (most, not all) appear to prefer wallowing in self-pity and hate rather than look for an actual solution.  In a nutshell, they appear to want everyone else to lose hope because they themselves have.  "If I can't be happy, then nobody should be happy."

Its extremely unlikely that Bioware is going to completely scrap the ending we already have.  The most likely options are either they give us mid-game dlc in an attempt to fill in the plotholes, or they tack something on after the starchild scene.  At least indoc theory explains the starchild scene somewhat... what do the anti-indoc people offer as an alternative? 

and again, please don't just ask for the entire last 15 minutes to be scrapped... its very unrealistic to expect that outcome.

[Darknessfalls23]

Or they could be telling you that to buy time so people stop tanking their user ratings...

[ref]

People who hate the IT don't understand it, they claim "Oh well, if that's true then Shepard didn't stop the reapers afterall, that makes no sense!"

The whole point for the IT to work is for follow up DLC that continues on it.

[Jaze55]

Aiyie wrote...

I would suggest anyone who doesn't like the indoc theory develop something to counter it.

I'm not talking about simply disproving it, im talking about an alternative.  Like it, or hate it, it seems like they are the only ones looking for a way to solve the ending problem, or at least give Bioware an easy way to give us a real ending without scrapping everything they've already done.

Most of the indoc theory haters I've seen on these forums (most, not all) appear to prefer wallowing in self-pity and hate rather than look for an actual solution.  In a nutshell, they appear to want everyone else to lose hope because they themselves have.  "If I can't be happy, then nobody should be happy."

Its extremely unlikely that Bioware is going to completely scrap the ending we already have.  The most likely options are either they give us mid-game dlc in an attempt to fill in the plotholes, or they tack something on after the starchild scene.  At least indoc theory explains the starchild scene somewhat... what do the anti-indoc people offer as an alternative? 

and again, please don't just ask for the entire last 15 minutes to be scrapped... its very unrealistic to expect that outcome.

I am only speaking for myself here but I want Bioware to come up with an idea. They were brilliant for 99.9% of the Mass Effect Series I think we should allow them the opportunity to fix what nees to be fixed. 

Modifié par MassEffected555, 24 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[Penitent]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

you have no idead what your talking about. the endings sucked.. its pretty much impossible for indoc theory to be as bad or worse. I dont understand why (some) hate it so much. It would make for a great segue into the DLC.

The alternatives are what suck. complete re-writes and BS simple closure and explaination is crap.

I still feel you people don't fully get the theory and all its points. You simply couldn't say its worse the the current endings or creates more holes if you did.

The only BS here, is your effort to impose this execrable plot band-aid upon us all, simply because you're enamored with it.

IT is rubbish. I'd rather have Shepard die as is, than be some servile pawn. I didn't play through THREE games, to "go out like a *****," as some might say.

[Aiyie]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

But the Indoc theory creates even more holes than it solves, so it is no better.

i don't want to turn this into another "why indoc is right" thread... but im sincerely curious what new plotholes it creates?

i know it doesn't solve all the current plotholes, but I've yet to see any new ones come from it.  Most the issues that people have with indoc theory seem to stem from misunderstandings of the theory and in-game lore.

[Dreogan]

Aiyie wrote...

I would suggest anyone who doesn't like the indoc theory develop something to counter it.

I'm not talking about simply disproving it, im talking about an alternative.  Like it, or hate it, it seems like they are the only ones looking for a way to solve the ending problem, or at least give Bioware an easy way to give us a real ending without scrapping everything they've already done.

Most of the indoc theory haters I've seen on these forums (most, not all) appear to prefer wallowing in self-pity and hate rather than look for an actual solution.  In a nutshell, they appear to want everyone else to lose hope because they themselves have.  "If I can't be happy, then nobody should be happy."

Its extremely unlikely that Bioware is going to completely scrap the ending we already have.  The most likely options are either they give us mid-game dlc in an attempt to fill in the plotholes, or they tack something on after the starchild scene.  At least indoc theory explains the starchild scene somewhat... what do the anti-indoc people offer as an alternative? 

and again, please don't just ask for the entire last 15 minutes to be scrapped... its very unrealistic to expect that outcome.

There's no need to disprove indoctrination or provide alternative interpretations to the ending. This only gives credit to Bioware's ham-fisted storytelling, when it's their storytelling throughout the ending that destroys the suspension of disbelief.

The alternative to indoctrination is to simply reject the ending as it is. It is wrong; invalid fiction.

In the end, though, indoctrination isn't relevant. It's another way to reject the ending at its best, a conspiracy theory to mull over (like the space hamster being a spy for Harbinger) at worst. 

Modifié par Dreogan, 25 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[Kylie Nightbreeze]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

I would suggest anyone who doesn't like the indoc theory develop something to counter it.

I'm not talking about simply disproving it, im talking about an alternative.  Like it, or hate it, it seems like they are the only ones looking for a way to solve the ending problem, or at least give Bioware an easy way to give us a real ending without scrapping everything they've already done.

Most of the indoc theory haters I've seen on these forums (most, not all) appear to prefer wallowing in self-pity and hate rather than look for an actual solution.  In a nutshell, they appear to want everyone else to lose hope because they themselves have.  "If I can't be happy, then nobody should be happy."

Its extremely unlikely that Bioware is going to completely scrap the ending we already have.  The most likely options are either they give us mid-game dlc in an attempt to fill in the plotholes, or they tack something on after the starchild scene.  At least indoc theory explains the starchild scene somewhat... what do the anti-indoc people offer as an alternative? 

and again, please don't just ask for the entire last 15 minutes to be scrapped... its very unrealistic to expect that outcome.

I am only speaking for myself here but I want Bioware to come up with an idea. They were brilliant for 99.9% of the Mass Effect Series I think we should allow them the opportunity to fix what nees to be fixed. 

Thank you I completly agree it is not for us fans to fix this proble it is for BioWare to do it in what ever way they want.

[Aiyie]

I dont understand why (some) hate it so much. It would make for a great segue into the DLC.

If I can't be happy... then you shouldn't be happy either.

They're so filled with anger and self-pity about what Bioware did to a game that they love that they feel everyone else must feel the same way.

Personally, if its a choice between that or actually offering something constructive towards fixing the mistakes... ill take the second option.  The first option is just self-defeating emo bull****.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Kylie Nightbreeze wrote...

But the Indoc theory creates even more holes than it solves, so it is no better.

No it doesn't. If done right, Bioware could fix every plot hole if they would go with indoc. theory.
No plot holes can be bigger then the ones we recieved from last 10 min of the game and RGB endings.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 25 mars 2012 - 12:02 .

[Cuddieee]

Penitent wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

you have no idead what your talking about. the endings sucked.. its pretty much impossible for indoc theory to be as bad or worse. I dont understand why (some) hate it so much. It would make for a great segue into the DLC.

The alternatives are what suck. complete re-writes and BS simple closure and explaination is crap.

I still feel you people don't fully get the theory and all its points. You simply couldn't say its worse the the current endings or creates more holes if you did.

The only BS here, is your effort to impose this execrable plot band-aid upon us all, simply because you're enamored with it.

IT is rubbish. I'd rather have Shepard die as is, than be some servile pawn. I didn't play through THREE games, to "go out like a *****," as some might say.

Then choose the destroy option? 

[Blackmind1]

 Of course you think that, every movement needs an anti-movement. It's the way of the world.

The balance must be kept, yin and yang and all. It's built into human nature to question popular theory and interpretation.