314 réponses à ce sujet

[mupp3tz]

Edited. I'll also actually plug in the quotes they used as examples instead of just that 1 link.

[imooumoo]

Alright, alright F off guys, I delted it. Jesus.

Modifié par imooumoo, 25 mars 2012 - 02:12 .

[Wowlock]

I was about to do a French and war joke but meh

Welcome to the front lines. We fight Trolls and ''paid journalists'' with civility. Bring on your ''Kindness grenade '' !

[mupp3tz]

Google translate doesn't work well because some of the connotations or speech implications are lost. It's better if an actual native speaker translates it.

[imooumoo]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Google translate doesn't work well because some of the connotations or speech implications are lost. It's better if an actual native speaker translates it.

Understood, I just wanted the rest of us to know what they were talking about. Coming from non- French speaking.

[S Atomeha]

imooumoo wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Google translate doesn't work well because some of the connotations or speech implications are lost. It's better if an actual native speaker translates it.

Understood, I just wanted the rest of us to know what they were talking about. Coming from non- French speaking.

yea, it's why english signs in japan are hilarious.

[Dranume]

Welcome, French Brothers and Sisters!

[mupp3tz]

S Atomeha wrote...

imooumoo wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Google translate doesn't work well because some of the connotations or speech implications are lost. It's better if an actual native speaker translates it.

Understood, I just wanted the rest of us to know what they were talking about. Coming from non- French speaking.

yea, it's why english signs in japan are hilarious.

Oh my god.. don't even.  Those are so, so hilarious.

[rudenotginger]

Ok, I've done some more, but it's 10PM now and I'm signing out for today. If it's not finished by then I'll pitch it again tomorrow night.

The many plotholes and inconsistencies.

The frustration is amplified by a disturbing Deux Ex Machina, the Catalyst Child or Starchild.
We have the feeling that everything we have accomplished thus far is negated by the sudden apparition of an entity that gives us the illusion of choices in a finite arc in which, no matter what we decide, we feel trapped and smothered.

The experiences of each players are certainly personal, their stories written by their own choices, but all converge to a single endings arc regardless of the story molded by the player.

Furthermore, the Starchild’s explanations fail to be convincing. Harvest organics to protect them from synthetics? Why then don’t the Reapers destroy synthetics? And even that would not be coherent, given that the Quarian and the Geth can find a durable resolution to their conflict.

With this point, we want to point out a series of inconsistencies within the scenario.

Modifié par rudenotginger, 25 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[Turkeysock]

Welcome to the movement! Viva La Revolution!

[mupp3tz]

A letter from fans to the Bioware teams in charge of Mass Effect 3 (v.1.3)

Hello to the creative and production teams of Bioware.

We are the French, Belgian, and Francophone players who have finished the Mass Effect saga, through completion of the last episode of the series: Mass Effect 3.

We are aware of the controversy generated by the ending of Mass Effect 3, and have spent the last few weeks expressing our concerns about the issue through various threads on the French Bioware Social Network forum.

Our initiative to open a dialogue with you is very important to the French/Francophone players of the community.

For some time, a segment of the players have reacted in violent, aggressive, and, sometimes, downright offensive behavior towards your teams; however, a majority of us obviously condemn this despicable behavior. We want to adopt a more constructive approach, as you have given us the opportunity to express ourselves on this subject.

We are very thankful for this opportunity.

We intend to be humble, respectful, and open, and our objective is to ease the process of understanding player complaints throughout the French speaking communities. In addition, we believe that our opinions reflect those of many players throughout the world as well.

We all consider the Mass Effect trilogy to be a huge saga of rare quality, and we are deeply aware of the sizeable efforts you must have taken to give fans the games they wanted to play.

Mass Effect has deeply touched a huge quantity of players on the emotional level, more than many other video games. So, it is not a surprise that many people have waited patiently for this third and final episode.

The reaction of your most loyal fans may have shocked you, and some have been able to voice their feelings better
than others. We are a part of those fans, and we implore you to believe that our initiative is not just an immature
reaction – especially, since this feeling holds true for a majority of those who have finished the game – but a reflection of our feelings on the ending of Mass Effect 3.

We hope that you carefully consider what we have to say in the following statement, because we want to have an open discussion and not impose anything on you.

We respect the concept of intellectual property and that you have the authority to make decisions; however, we want to express ourselves in the hopes that you can give us a more fitting end than what we were given.

A majority of the Mass Effect 3 ending was well done, and, for this reason, we are hurt even more by the ending.

“Why are a majority of players not satisfied with Mass Effect 3’s ending?”

We want to clarify this through 3 points:

    1) What the community did not like
    2) What the community would have liked, and
    3) Solutions by the community to help developers for future content.

So, with that said...

1. What the community did not like:

     a. The feeling that developers did not keep their promise about the impact of decisions on the game.

As an example, here are some promises made:

(http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2)

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”

(http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/)

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

(http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2)

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2]
“Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson:
“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

Given these promises made by Bioware, a genuine feeling of frustration, even betrayal, has emerged.  Indeed, the final climax gives us three choices, choices that we can compare to endings A, B, or C.

We also wonder why the choices that we previously made throughout the adventure have no real impact, or at least not the impact that we expected, since we understand that the consequence of our choices are reflected in the Total Military Strength (TMS).

However, it is regrettable that everything depends on a numerical value, that our choices to save the Rachni, cure the Krogan or betray them, side with the Salarian Dalatrass, save the Collector base or not, end the war between the Quarian and the Geth, all come down to War Asset score. We feel that in the end, all we have done is accumulate points, not help galactic allies.

Our choices do write the core of the scenario, our scenario, but why are the consequences of these choices not reflected in the ending itself? The only element that reminds us that we have rallied all the races is a scene where Admiral Hackett asks for a report from each fleet before the assault on Earth.

We are aware that our choices affect game mechanics, but we would have liked that our choices affect scenario possibilities.

For example, whether or not we have the Krogan as allies, as long as we have a certain amount of Effective Millitary Strength points, the three options are offered to the player.

Our point is that we no longer feel like we have to face the consequences of our choices.  Another example would be the final dialogue with the Illusive Man. We feel that our dialogue choices have no influence on the conclusion of this confrontation, that results inexorably in the death of the Illusive Man.

     The many plotholes and inconsistencies.

The frustration is amplified by a disturbing Deux Ex Machina, the Catalyst Child or Starchild.  We have the feeling that everything we have accomplished thus far is negated by the sudden apparition of an entity that gives us the illusion of choices in a finite arc in which, no matter what we decide, we feel trapped and smothered.

The experiences of each players are certainly personal, their stories written by their own choices, but all converge to a single endings arc regardless of the story molded by the player.

Furthermore, the Starchild’s explanations fail to be convincing. Harvest organics to protect them from synthetics? Why then don’t the Reapers destroy synthetics? And even that would not be coherent, given that the Quarian and the Geth can find a durable resolution to their conflict.

With this point, we want to point out a series of inconsistencies within the scenario:

- Why does Hackett call for retreat after Shepard gets struck by the death ray, even though the way is now open due to Harbinger vacating the grounds?

- Why are there no enemy troops protecting the Citadel? ... Considering that the conduit represents a great risk to the Reapers.

- In addition, why does the conduit bring us directly to the central unit that opens the arms of the Citadel?  Wasn't this type of immediate access a careless decision by the Reapers?

- How did Anderson arrive safe and sound before Shepard, even though Anderson was supposed to have crossed the conduit after Shepard?  Also, why was he teleported to a different room than Shepard?

- Why doesn't the Illusive Man control Shepard and force him to commit suicide if Shepard was such an obstacle to his goal?

- After Anderson dies, why is Shepard wounded on the same exact place as Anderson?  Nothing indicates that he was hurt on this side.  How is this possible?

- How is Shepard's radio still working, even though his armor is completely destroyed?

- How is Admiral Hackett aware that Shepard has made it to the Citadel?  Shepard penetrates the conduit after all the human troops fell back.  How could anyone have seen him going into the Citadel?

- What happened to the two teammates who accompanies us during the rush towards the conduit?  How did they end up back on the Normandy?

- How is it possible for Shepard to survive the explosion of the Citadel and the Crucible after the ending sequence where he destroys the Reapers?

- Why does the Starchild even give Shepard the option to destroy the Reapers, even though the Starchild believes that "reaping" is necessary?  Doesn't this completely destroy all his work in the preceeding cycles?

- Why does Joker quit the fight? It is not his nature to be a coward... in fact, it's quite the opposite!

These questions may be small details, but, once accumulated, the provoke a feeling of a botched ending.  One that is rushed, incoherent, fuzzy, disconnected from the rest of the game, and does not answer some of the important questions -- on top of adding new questions, such as:

What happens to all the characters?  What happens to all the races? How does the galaxy evolve without mass relays?  How does life continue to exist if the destruction of all the mass effect relays means multiple explosions that destroy the entire solar system (as seen on Mass Effect 2's Arrival DLC)?

Will all of this said, let's move on to our next point.

2) What the community would have liked

Whatever ending we choose, there seems to be a missed opportunity for a meaningful epilogue that explains what happens to the characters, the different races, to Shepard and his/her LI, and the choices we have made.  The ending cinmeatic shows that the Normandy crashes, followed by a scene of a grandfather and a child.  It seems like there is something lacking, and this leaves us feeling extremely unsatisfied.

An epilogue would end the adventure.  It would provide a way for players to say goodbye to the world they created with passion and love.

Our hopes as players perfected by two elements: gameplay and story.

   a) Gameplay

This point overlaps with the problems linked to the lack of choice referred to in the last paragraph.  The end gave us a huge space battle occuring in Earth's orbit and a fierce ground battle that involved Shepard and his squad.

This is what we expected, but the problem in the execution is that we are given the impression of simply being spectators and not actually undergoing the events.

We expected to take part in a sort of galatic war game, where we would be able to deploy our troops and choose which race/fleet fought whom.  This is where our decisions could have been reflected!

The idea is not to transform the gameplay into a simple board game (as Mass Effect is still a TPS), but something as simple as utilizing the dialogue wheel could have made this work.

Here is an example to better illustrate this idea:

The Reapers' force puts pressure on the Human-Turian alliance.

The player would then be given the option to choose which fleet will provide aid, depending on the ones available (i.e. Asari, Geth, Quarian, Krogan, Rachni, etc.)  Each fleet has it's own advantages and disadvantages.  Each deployment would be crucial! 

We could also deploy ground troops to aid the resistance's fight.  Here, we would also have the choice to deploy another army.  If we decided to send the krogans to aid in space, then we would not have the option to mobilize them on Earth, etc.  Essentially, the battle plays out like a giant chess board, where we are able to command our armies and establish strategies that determine the outcome of the battle -- resulting in loses or victories, depending on our decisions.

You have already used a similar system during the Suicide Mission in Mass Effect 2.  The choices we made regarding which squad member to place in charge of certain tasks were extremely important for survival.  This idea was absolutely amazing and engaged the player on a strategic and emotional level.

We were expecting something similar at the end of Mass Effect 3: the choice to coordinate the different battle fronts via acquired War Assets, and see how they impacted the war.

Concerning the scenario

There are events that we would have liked to experience during the ending of Mass Effect 3.

First of all, a confrontation with Harbinger.  After Mass Effect 2, two enemies became clear to us: The Illusive Man and Harbinger.  

The Illusive Man (TIM) was incorporated in a very satisfactory way in Mass Effect 3, even though we would have liked to see him play a more important part in the grand finale; however, Harbinger was always the real threat as he is the head entity of the Reapers.  Other than a description in the codex and a brief appearance during the final battle, Harbinger was absent during a majority of the game.

In the same way we confronted Sovereign, we would have liked to be confronted by Harbinger via dialogue and also combat (physical or psychological.)  There should have been a fight against him where all the companions we met during the adventure were able to take part -- as this is as much their fight as it is Shepard's.

We also have some regrets concerning our companions.

The possibility to communicate one last time with the companions of Mass Effect 2 through an intercom was a great idea, and we felt that this was an emotional moment; however, we would have preferred it if we could have just said our goodbyes in person.  The idea of being on the battlefield at the head of a squad that included all our companions seems justified: everyone fighting together in an epic and emotional battle where the collective desire to overcome the enemy is mixed with the fear of losing the people we have come to love throughout the years.

Imagine: receiving the ongoing assault of marauders, weakening under their fire, and suddenly seeing Jack and her students make the enemies burst with biotics.  Suddenly, enraged brutes emerge from the blazing grounds.  Soldiers begin to feel fear... until the powerful krogan and rachni army, led by the Rachni Queen, Wrex/Wreave, and Grunt, appear and assault the enemy.  During this, a violent fight could be taking place between the banshees and the asari commandos led by Samara and the other matriarchs.

Just imagine it.

Everyone would be united and all the choices we made throughout the game would be really meaningful.  New choices would naturally come to us, such as what strategy to adopt for the ground battles, as everything leads to the final confrontation between Shepard and Harbinger.

In regards to moral choices and the endings:

The ones presented to us at the end don't seem to make much sense and are too confining.  We understand your position in wanting to conclude on a bittersweet note, but the problem is that no matter what we choose... there is only one ending.  Bittersweet.  No matter what.

We would have liked to see very different endings.  For example: a happy one, a bittersweet one, and a tragic one, with all the subtlety and complexity that each of our decisions would have made. 

Moreover, you could have further exploited the repercussions of using Reaper tech and artifacts in fighting the Reapers, or the decision to keep the Collector base. 

In conclusion, the writing seems to be the problem.

The staging of the story has always been, throughout the games, a complete success.  We just think that all the emotion you managed to create at the end of the game would have been better amplified by different endings and developments.

We hope that this opinion, shared by most of our community, will help you understand our reactions, interrogations, and doubts surrounding the endings.  Following this controversy, we have decided to act.  To propose content to enlighten the endings and bring something that will satisfy the fans.

The bond of trust between your studio and us plauyers has always been special.  We feel like we are being listened to and want to help you in building this adventure that has lasted for over five years.

We do not know the nature of the content that you are working on, but what we do have are some ideas and solutions that might come in handy.

3) Solutions brought by the community to help the developers in their future artistic journey

We understand that it is very hard for you to change the endings.  We also know that the content in preparation will be extra content, and not an actual change.  We can only assume that whatever will be released will take place after the events of Mass Effect 3.

The question we ask ourselves is:
"How do you overcome player deception and, at the same time, include elements they would like to see?"

An answer to this question has emerged on the web, and it is probably something that you have already heard about: the indoctrination theory.

Here are a few links that explain what this is all about:





The indoctrination theory is extremely interesting for 3 different reasons:
   - It solves the problems addressed in point number 1.
   - It provides a way for Bioware to keep the endings that they created, and
   - It opens the possibility to directly include elements from point number 2.

If you take a look at the forums, you'll realize that this theory is highly praised by the fans.  They see it as an intelligent and coherent way to explain the endings.

There is also another solution provided by the community: the chance for Shepard to refuse the Catalyst's solutions and ignore them.  Shepard would make his own decision to fight the Reapers the conventional way.  Such a reaction makes sense with the character of Commander Shepard, who, throughout the games, has always refused to give in to the Reapers and finds another way.

In conclusion,

We are aware that you are in a delicate position.  We also know that gamers should not impose their decisions on the developers.  Nevertheless, we hope that you take the ideas in this letter into consideration.

The ball is in your court and the choice is ultimately yours.

We have no intention to put you under pressure, despite the content of this letter.

We emphasize that our goal is to provide vision, clarity, and aid.

We are aware that it is difficult to respond positively to these comments and requests, but we also believe that consistent and realistic solutions have been provided in this letter.

We hope to have an open dialogue with you that will lead to an ending that satisfies not only the fans, but also, you, the Bioware team.

To end on a positive note, we wish to sincerely thank you for this saga that has been such a profoundly influencial and fasinating experience us for during these past five years.  The journey will remain in our memories for a long time.

A BIG THANK YOU FROM,

The Francophone community of Bioware Social Network.

Submitted: gendocrono (representing some of the French BSN fans)
French > English Translations: ginger, S Atomeha, elysis, and Viper371
Format / Proofread: M U P P 3 T Z

Any other French speakers want to translate more?  It's about halfway done + I added credit where it's due.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 25 mars 2012 - 03:22 .

[Divitiacus]

Nice to see Orange hasn't kicked everyone off the Internet.

[QuarianHIV]

I heard French tanks have 6 reverse gears. No matter. Just make sure your turrets can swing 180 degrees.

[Viper371]

Should have read the whole thread before continuing my translation, ah!

Well, I'm going for another batch, then.

[Shinobu]

My French is not great, but with the Google translation, I can help some:

Letter from the fans to the teams in charge of Bioware Mass Effect 3. v.1.3


Hello to Bioware's entire creative and development team.

We are male and female players from France, Belgium and other French-speaking nations who have finished the Mass Effect saga through the conclusion of the last episode, Mass Effect 3.

We are aware of the controversy that was prompted by the ending of Mass Effect 3, and in the subsequent weeks we have expressed ourselves on this subject through a variety of topics on the French Bioware Social Network.

It is therefore as representatives of a significant portion of the French/French-speaking gaming community we take the initiative to open a dialogue with you.

Lately, some of the players have reacted violently, aggressively and sometimes abusively towards your teams, but we represent the majority who, of course, condemn these abhorrent behaviors.
We wish to adopt a much more constructive approach, to the extent that you have given us the opportunity to express ourselves in this direction.

We thank you.

This approach is intended to be humble, respectful, open, and aims to help you understand the reactions of players across France, Belgium and French-speaking countries (but we also believe that our opinions overlap the views of many players on the planet).

We consider all the Mass Effect trilogy as an immense saga of exceptional quality and are very aware of how much effort you have made to deliver fans the games they expected.
Mass effect has deeply influenced a huge number of players on an emotional level, more than many video games, so it is not surprising that many people looked forward to this third episode.
The reaction of the most loyal fans was shock, some better expressed this than others. We are part of these fans and please believe that our initiative is not an immature whim (not when most players who have finished the game feel this way), but a reflection on our feelings about the ending of Mass Effect 3.

We ask you to carefully consider what we say in what follows, as we seek to open a dialogue, not to demand anything.
We respect your intellectual property and know for a fact you make the decisions.
Nevertheless, we wish to speak about the ending and hope you can take steps to make the saga more brilliant than it has been.

We find almost all of Mass Effect 3 is a success, and join all those who praise it for that reason, but we are much more conflicted about the finale.


"Why are the vast majority of players not satisfied with the end of Mass Effect 3? "

We try to enlighten you through three subjects:

1) What has displeased the community.
2) What the community would have liked.
3) The solutions provided by the community to help developers move forward.


1) What has displeased the community.

a) The feeling that the developers have not kept their promises towards the players on the impact of our decisions on the outcome.

Indeed, here are some excerpts from statements/promises made by Bioware:




"There is a huge set of consequences stacking up That home as you approach the end-game. And Even In terms of the soi ending, it continued to break down to very wide Some decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending Where everything is linear and you make a choice Between a Few Things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the end times, where 'it's going to be different for everyone Who plays it . "


http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

"The Whole Idea of ​​Mass EFFECT3 is Resolving all of the biggest questions about the Protheons and the Reapers, and Being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of These big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die : All of These things are Answered in Mass Effect 3. "




Interviewer:
[Regarding the endings can Numerous of Mass Effect 2] "Is that
same type of Complexity built Into the ending of Mass Effect 3? "

Hudson:
"Yeah, and I'd say much more so, Because We Have the Ability to build
the endings out in a way That We Do not Have to worry about Eventually
tying 'em back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to year end
with this game. That means clustering the endings Can Be a lot more different. At
Into this account the point we're Taking So Many Decisions That you've made
Reflecting as a player and a lot of stuff That. It's Not Even In Any Way
like the traditional game endings, Where you can say How Many Endings
There are gold whether you got ending A, B, or C. The endings .... Have a
lot more sophistication and Variety in 'em. "

Given certain promises made by Bioware, there is a real sense of frustration, even of betrayal, that has emerged among the fans.


Indeed, in the final climax we are given three choices, choices that could ultimately be equated to A, B or C.
And we wonder why the choices we've made previously, throughout the adventure do not have a real impact, or at least, not the impact that we were entitled to expect, because the possibilities of these choices emerge depending only on the final EMS.
But then, it is unfortunate that everything depends on a computational mechanic: that our choices for saving the Rachni, curing the Krogan or betraying them, supporting the Salarian Dalatrass, keeping or destroying the Collector base, and reconciling the Geth and Quarians boils down to the EMS. We feel that ultimately we have been content to accumulate points, and not to have helped the galactic races.
While our choices enter the main storyline, why are the consequences of those choices not found in the scenario at the end?
The only thing that reminded us that we brought together all the races, was the scene where Hacket requests a report from each fleets before the attack on Earth.

We realize that our choices affect a game mechanic, but we would all like our choices to affect the scriptwriting.

For example, no matter whether or not we have the Krogan as allies, the moment we have 6,000 EMS the same three choices will be offered to the player.

Do you see where we're coming from?

We had the impression these choices mattered. Where we hoped to take matters into our own hands.

Another example concerns the dialogue with the Illusive Man in the finale. We did not feel that our dialogue choices affected the outcome of this confrontation, which inevitably ends in his death.

Many inconsistencies scriptwriting.

Moreover, this frustration is amplified by a very disturbing deus ex machina, the catalyst child.

We feel that everything we've accomplished so far is swept aside by the capricious appearance of an entity that gives us the illusion of choice in a finished bow, bow in which, no matter what you decide , you feel trapped and suffocated.
The experiences of each player are certainly personal, peculiar to each, their history was made according to their choices, it is undeniable, but converges to a single conclusion independent of the history written by the player.
Similarly, explanations of the child catalyst failed to be convincing. "Harvest the organics to protect them from Synthetics?" So why don't the Reapers destroy the synthetics? And it's not even logical, knowing that the Geth and Quarians managed to come to a sustainable peace agreement.

With this point we want to highlight a number of inconsistencies in the script.

Why, when Shepard enters the beam, is Hammer Squad ordered to retreat when it is safe, Harbinger having left the scene?

-Since entering the Citadel through the beam would represent a big risk to the Reapers, why isn't it better guarded by enemy troops?

-In the same vein, why does the beam lead directly to the central unit that opens the arms of the citadel? Knowing that this beam has been set up by the Reapers, is not it irresponsible on their part?

How did Anderson arrive unscathed and before Shepard when he is supposed to have reached the beam after Shepard? Similarly, why has he been teleported to a different place from Shepard on his arrival?

-If Shepard is an threat to the Illusive Man, why didn't he compel Shepard to commit suicide? After all, Shepard was forced to shoot Anderson.

Why does Shepard, after the death of Anderson, have an injured left side of his abdomen when there is no indication that he was wounded there? Why have this scene?

-How can Shepard's radio still work when his armor was practically destroyed?

How is Admiral Hackett aware that Shepard is inside the Citadel?
Indeed, Shepard enters the beam after all human troops have withdrawn, no one has seen Shepard enter the Citadel.

-Where are the two teammates who accompanied us during the assault to the beam? How do they wind up on the Normandy?

In the ending where Shepard destroys the Reapers, how is it possible that he can survive after the explosion of the Citadel and the Crucible?

Why, if the catalyst harvests organics in order to save them, does he gives us the opportunity to destroy the Reapers and so destroy all his work from previous cycles?

Why did Joker flee the fighting? We are used to him being more of a daredevil than a coward.

These questions may be details, but all these details accumulate, causing the players to feel that the ending is sloppy, inconsistent, vague, somewhat disconnected from the rest of the game, and does not answer some important questions while posing new issues, with top of the list:

"But what becomes of all the characters? What happens to the other races? How the galaxy will be able to continue to move forward without Mass relays? And how can life survive if each exploding mass relay is expected to destroy an entire solar system (as seen in Arrival)?

Given these remarks, we approach the next point.


2) What the community would have liked.

In our view the end is missing an epilogue that summarizes what happens to the characters, galactic races, even Shepard and his/her love interest, and every choice we made. The cut scenes which portray the Normandy crash on a planet X Eden and the dialogue between the man and the child after the credits seem to us very insubstantial, we remain woefully none the wiser.
The epilogue ends the adventure, and it is also a way for players to say goodbye to the world they created with passion and love.

Our hopes as players crystallized on two elements, the gameplay and story.

a) The gameplay

This point overlaps with the problems of choice the players identified in the previous point.
The end we offer a huge space battle in orbit around the Earth and a fierce ground battle in which Commander Shepard and his squad are involved.

This is what we expected, the problem again is that we seem to suffer and just watch the events.
We were hoping to actually play on a "galactic war scale," where we could decide how to move our troops, what race or what fleet to fight in each place, rather than another, and this is where our choices would have mattered.
The idea is not to change the gameplay to an RTS, Mass Effect is a TPS, but the use of the dialogue wheel for decision-making is a mechanism that could work in this direction.
It is at this moment for example, that having more Krogan than Salarians would impact the game: the Krogans being a more powerful military force. Also having the Geth and Quarian fleets on our side would have represented a strategic advantage, an advantage which would disappear if we had not been able to reconcile them.
Similarly, having saved the Rachni in ME1 and having them in our ranks would represent a major asset in this war, if not the decisive one.

Here is an example devised to better illustrate this:

In space, the Reapers are numerous, they would defteat the Human alliance and Turian fleets.
So we can choose what fleet will help them, according to all fleets at our disposal, Asari, Geth, Quarian, Krogan, Rachni, etc.
Each fleet has its advantages and weaknesses, and each troop movement is really important!
At the same time, we must send ground troops to fight on Earth, to help the resistance. And so we would have the choice: what corps are we going to send to Earth? Knowing that if we have mobilized the Krogans in space, we cannot send them to Earth, the same for each race.
In this way, as on a giant chessboard, we move our pieces to establish a strategy that will determine the outcome of the fight, with good decisions and losses that would result.

You set up a system at the end of Mass Effect 2 during the suicide mission, where the way we managed our squad determined who would survive or die.
This idea was just great and the players were involved both strategically and emotionally.

We hoped to have something similar at the end of Mass Effect 3.

Ultimately to have the choice to lead and coordinate the various war fronts via our "war assets," and that these choices shape the final outcome of this war.

on the scenario.

There are events that we would have liked to experience at the end of Mass Effect 3.

First, a confrontation with Harbinger.

After Mass Effect 2, there are two known enemies that lie ahead, the Illusive Man, and Harbinger.
The Illusive Man was treated in Mass Effect 3, very satisfactorily, although we would have liked him to becoming a greater obstacle in the finale, but Harbinger was the most frightening threat, lurking in the darkness, the entity at the head of the Reapers, an entity which had attracted considerable attention during Mass Effect 2.
Apart from a description in the codex, and a very brief appearance at the visual end of the adventure, he was absent.

Just as we confronted Sovereign, we would have liked to oppose Harbinger, through dialogues on the one hand, or by a fight on the other (either physical or mental).
A fight in which all the companions with whom we met in the adventure are involved, because it is their fight.

On this second point that we have regrets.

The ability to communicate one last time with our Mass Effect 2 squad via intercom was a good idea. This was a moving passage, but we would have liked to say goodbye face to face.
The idea of ​​ending up on a battlefield at the head of squads including our companions seemed to us the most sensible idea, in an epic struggle the desire to win and the fear of losing people with whom we have created a strong bond for years would be mixed together.

Imagine seeing the shields of marauders weakening, and seeing Jack and her followers arrive to shatter opponents with biotic bursts.
It would be at that point that tons of Brutes emerge. Fear would cause our ranks to hesitate, but an army of super-powerful Krogan and Rachni, frantically rush the enemy, led by Grunt, Wrex and the Rachni Queen. Then a furious battle would rage between Banshees and Asari commandos led by Samara and other Justicars ...

Imagine.

Everything would be fulfilled, the circle is completed, the choices that we made would shape the outcome. And new choices logically come to us, how will we decide the strategy for fighting on the ground?
This again suggests that the player moves forces that would determine how and under what circumstances Commander Shepard defeats Harbinger and the Illusive Man.

Then come the moral choices, specific end of each episode.

As stated in the first point, the moral choices offered in the end sound too confining and rooted in the same logic.

We understand your desire to offer a bittersweet end. The problem is that no matter what we choose, the end always turns out to be bittersweet.

We would have liked to have outcomes very different from each other, for example, a happy ending, bittersweet, and finally a tragic ending. With all the subtlety and complexity entailed by our decisions.

Add elements that might be present in the story; for example, being able to use the Reaper artifacts (e.g., The Arrival) recovered by Shepard to turn against them, the same way that the possibility to use the Collector Base was offered to us.

To summarize, it is the substance screenplay problematic.
The staging in turn has always been, over the episodes, a total success, we think that just all the emotion that you've managed to transcribe the end of Mass Effect 3 could be amplified by development choices different.

We hope that this opinion is shared by the majority of the community, will help you understand our reaction, our questions and our doubts about the end of Mass Effect 3.

Following this controversy, you decided to act, to provide content to clarify the end, and bring something that will satisfy the fans.

Given your attitude, we humbly thank you.

The bond of trust between your studio and the fans has always been something special, we feel listened to and we want to help you in this adventure that has lasted for over 5 years.

We do not know the nature of the content on which you are working, and so we offer ideas and solutions that you may find useful.

3) The solutions provided by the community to help developers in their future approach.

We know it is very complicated for you to change the ending of Mass Effect 3. We also know that the new content will be an addition, not an overhaul. So we start from the principle that the content will be directly after the end of Mass Effect 3.

The question which arises then is:

"How to overcome the disappointment of the players while including elements they wanted? "

To this, there is an answer that began to emerge on the internet, an answer you have probably already heard, the indoctrination theory.

I can link to videos explaining this theory.





This theory is extremely interesting for three reasons:

-This would solve the inconsistencies listed in point 1)
-This is possible since the three endings you proposed in Mass Effect 3 may be retained in full and would not require an overhaul.
-This opens the possibility to directly include the elements proposed in point 2).

Just browse the forums in Europe and the U.S. to find that this theory, this idea is highly praised by fans, who think it is the most intelligent and coherent end of this incredible saga.

Another solution proposed by the players, add an option where Commander Shepard refutes the arguments of the Catalyst and would ignore the choices.
Shepard would impose his choice for military confrontation, Crucible or no Crucible.
The advantage of this would be staying true to the character of Commander Shepard, who from the beginning refused to yield to the Reapers, and who has always found a solution anyway.


In conclusion,

We are aware that you are in a difficult position, we also realize that players do not have the right to impose their decisions.

We ask you to please take this letter as a proposal of ideas to bring more clarity and solutions. The ball is in your court and the choice is yours.
We have no intention to harm or pressure you, even if it is awkward to say given the current context.
We emphasize that our goal is to provide vision, clarity, attention, please believe in the expression of our support.
We are aware that it will be very difficult to respond positively to all these comments and requests, but also believe that the solutions in this letter are consistent and realistic.
Where applicable, we hope to open a dialogue that will lead to an ending that will satisfy all the fans and you, the Bioware team.

To end on a positive note, we wish to sincerely thank you for this saga that has profoundly influenced and fascinated us all these years, and will continue to remain in our memories for a long time.



A big THANK YOU!

[mupp3tz]

Okay, I'll add on as we go.. maybe instead of re-quoting, I'll just quote when it's finally done. Sounds good?

Also, if anyone wants to add further proofreading or recommendations on formatting, etc. Have at it!

[Noatz]

This is great. Shows disgust at the ending is international.

Bienvenue à nos amis Française tout la monde!

[GeoFukari]

Its been quite a while since I posted on these forums. Lately I've been lurking at all the updates, but this time I wanted to say something.
Seeing this post made me laugh. I thought it was a joke. But as I read the thread, I grinned larger than I have in a while.
After the 4 years of French I've taken, I learned I am not even on a 4th grade level. Such a sad reality.
BUT, getting back to the topic.... I wish to say to French Players, Welcome on behalf of a member of the English Speaking Bioware Forums. And while my words don't really hold much weight, as I have just returned to this area, I hope you guys can help us all reform the ending of the game for EVERYONE around the world.

[Shinobu]

I really like the ideas for the fight at the end. Epic!

[Viper371]

Ok doing up to part 2:

- Whis it that, when Harbinger strikes Shepard with his death ray, the Major calls for retreat while the way is now free, Harbinger having vacated the grounds?

- Given that penetrating into the Citadel with the conduit [NOTE: forgot the name of the "beam" used to get in the Citadel at the end, please replace all "conduit" by whatever is the proper word] represents such a great risk to the Reapers, why was it not more heavily garded by ennemy troops?

- In the same way, why is it the conduit brings us directly to the central unit that opens the arms of the Citadel?  Knowing this was put in place by the Reapers themselves, was it not careless of them?

- How did Anderson arrived safe and sound before Shepard while he was supposed to have crossed the conduit after him?  Also, why was he teleported in another room than Shepard was?

- If Sheppard is an obstacle to the Illusive Man, why doesn't he then control Shepard to have him commit suicide?  After all, he could force Shepard to shoot Anderson.

- Why does Shepard, after the death of Anderson, his wounded  on his left side?  Noithing indicates he was hurt on htis side?  Why this?  [NOTE: wasn't he holding his left side before going into the Citadel? If so, might want to delete this part, if not, I am simply confused :) ]

- How come is Shepard's radio still working while his armor is almost completely destroyed

- Why is admiral Hacket aware that Shepard has made it to the Citadel?  Shepard penetrates the conduite after all human troops fell back, no one saw Shepard going into the Citadel.

- Where are the two teammates who accompanied us toward the conduit ?  How come they are on the Normandy?

- In the end sequence where Shepard destroys the Reapers, how is it possible for one moment that he can survive after the explosion of the Citadel and the Crucible?

- Why, if reaping organics is for the Catalyst a way to save them, does he give us the possibility to destroy the Reapers and all his work on preceding cycles?

- Why does Joker quit the fight?  It's not in his way to be a coward, quite the opposite!


These questions maybe small details, but all these small details, once accumulated, provoque on players a feeling of a butched ending, rushed, incoherent, fuzzy, disconnected from the rest of the game and wich does not answer some important questions while asking new ones, wich at the top would be:
"What happens to all the characters? What happens to all the races?  How does the galaxy will be able to evolve without mass relays?  How does life can still exist if all mass effect relays, by exploding, are supposed to destroy an entire solar system (the Arrival)?

Given these, let's talk about our next point.

'nuff for tonight
Assez pour ce soir.

Si il en reste demain, je vais jeter un coup d'oeil.
If anything is left to do tomorrow afternoon, I'll take a look.

Modifié par Viper371, 25 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[Elysis]

Finished translating from "2) What the Community would have liked" to the end - It's past 4am here so sorry if I made any mistakes, translating is a real pain in the ass, may I add Proofreading might be a good idea.

2) What the community would have liked

Whatever the ending we choose, there seems to be missing a meaningful epilogue which explains what happens to the characters, the different races, to Shepard and his/her LI, along with all the choices we made. The ending cinematic that shows the Normandy crash, along with the cut scene with the grandfather and the child, seems like it is lacking something, and left us extremely unsatisfied.

An epilogue would end the adventure, and it would also be a way for players to say goodbye to the world they created with passion and love.

Our hopes as players crystallized on two elements, the gameplay and story.

a) Gameplay

This point overlaps the problems linked to choice (or lack thereof) enounced in the previous paragraph.
The end offered to us is a huge space battle in orbit around Earth and a fierce ground battle in which Commander Shepard and his squad are involved.

This is what we were expecting, but the problem is that we have the impression of not undergoing the events, and of being simple spectators.
We were expecting to take part in a galactic war « board game », where we would have been able to deploy our troops, choose which race and which fleet fought, and where our decisions could have been reflected!
The idea is not to transform the gameplay into a simple board game, Mass Effect is still a TPS, but the use of the dialogue wheel could have worked in such a way.

Here is an example we imagined to illustrate this idea better:

The Reapers’ force puts a real strand on the Human-Turian alliance.
We would have the possibility to choose which fleet could go aid them, depending on the fleets that were available (Asari, Geth, Quarian, Krogan, Rachni, etc.). Each fleet has its advantage and disadvantage. Each deployment would be crucial!
We would also have to deploy ground troops to aid the resistance’s fight. Here, we would also have the choice to deploy another army. If we had deployed the Krogans in Space, we would not be able to mobilize them to Earth, etc. That way, as if on a giant chess board, we would move our armies to establish a strategy that would determine the outcome of the battle, resulting in losses or victories according to our decisions.
You had already put such a system in place during the Suicide Mission in Mass Effect 2, where the choices we made with our squad were extremely important for survival. This idea was absolutely amazing and implicated the player on a strategic and emotional level.

We expected something similar at the end of Mass Effect 3: having the choice to coordinate the different battlefronts via out war assets, and see how they impacted on the war.

Concerning the scenario
There are events we would have liked to experience during the ending of ME3.
First of all, a confrontation with Harbinger.
After ME2, two enemies shaped before us: TIM, and Harbinger.
TIM was incorporated in a very satisfactory way in ME3, even if we would have liked to see him take more amplitude in the grand finale. But Harbinger was the real threat, and the more menacing; the entity at the head of the Reapers. Other from a description in the codex and a brief appearance during the final battle, Harbinger was absent from the outcome of the game.

In the same way we were confronted to Sovereign, we would have liked to be confronted to Harbinger, via dialogue, but also combat (physical or psychological). A fight in which all the companions we had met during the adventure would have been a part of; since this is also their fight.

We also have regrets concerning our companions.
The possibility to communicate one last time with the companions of Mass Effect 2 through intercom was a good idea, and we experienced it as an emotional moment, but we would have preferred it if we could have done so in person. The idea of being on the battle field at the head of a squad that included all of our companions seemed judicious: everyone fighting together in an epic and emotional combat where the desire to overcome the enemy together would be mixed with the fear of losing the people we have come to love over the years.

Imagine, receiving the ongoing assaults of marauders, weakening under their fire, and suddenly seeing Jack and her students make the enemies burst with biotics. Then, enraged brutes would emerge from blazing grounds. Fear would reach the soldiers. But the powerful Krogan and Rachni army, lead by the Rachni Queen, Wrex and Grunt, would frenetically assault the enemy. In the meantime, a violent fight would be taking place between Banshees and Asari commandos led by Samara and other matriarchs.

Imagine.

Everyone would be united, and the choices we had made throughout the games would really take meaning. New choices would naturally come to us, like what strategy to adopt for the ground battles, all of them leading to a final confrontation between Shepard and Harbinger.

Concerning moral choices, and the endings.
The ones presented to us don’t seem to diverge much and are too confining.
We understand your position in wanting to offer us a bittersweet ending. The only problem is that whatever we chose, the ending is bittersweet. No matter what.

We would have liked to see very different endings. For example, a happy one, a bittersweet one, and a tragic one, with all the subtlety and the complexity that would offer each decision we would have taken.
Moreover, you could have exploited more the recuperation of Reaper tech and artefacts in order to use them against the Reapers, and the choice of having kept the Collector base.

In conclusion, the writing seems to be the problem.
The staging of the story has always been throughout the games a complete success. We just think that all the emotion you have managed to create at the end of the game would have been amplified by different endings and developments.

We hope that this opinion, shared by most of the community, will help you understand our reactions, our interrogations, and our doubts concerning the endings.
Following this controversy, we have decided to act, to propose content to enlighten the endings and bring something that would satisfy the fans.

The bond of trust between your studio and us has always been special, we feel listened to and we want to help you in this adventure that has been lasting for over five years.
We do not know the nature of the content that you are working on, but here are a few ideas and solutions that might come handy.

3) Solutions brought by the community to help the developers in their future artistic journey

We know it is very hard for you to change the endings. We also know that the content in preparation will be extra content, and not an actual change. We can only assume then that whatever will be released will be situated after ME3.

The question we ask ourselves is:
« How can you overcome the players deception and at the same time include elements they would like to see? »

To this, there is an answer that as emerged on the web, and is something you probably already heard about: the indoctrination theory.

Here are a few links that explain it:





This theory is extremely interesting for 3 different reasons:
- This would solve the incoherencies enumerated in 1)
- Such a theory is plausible in a way that you get to keep the endings you have created
- It opens the possibility to directly include elements from 2)

If you take a look at the forums, you’ll realize that this theory is extremely praised by the fans, and see it as an intelligent and coherent way to explain the endings.

There is another solution that has been proposed by the community, in which Commander Shepard would refuse the Catalyst’s solutions and ignore them. Shepard would impose his own resolution: fighting the reapers the conventional way. Such a thing seems more in character to Shepard, who throughout the games always refused to give in to the Reapers, and always managed to find another way.

In conclusion,

We are aware that you are in a delicate position. We also know that gamers should not impose their decisions on the developers. Nevertheless we hope you will take the ideas in this letter into consideration. The ball is in your court and the choice is yours.

We have no intention to make you undergo any pressure, even with the content of this letter.
We emphasize that our goal is to provide a vision, clarity, and aid.
We are aware that it will be very difficult to respond positively to all these comments and requests, but we also believe that consistent and realistic solutions are in this letter.
We hope to open a dialogue that will lead to an ending that will satisfy all the fans, but also you, the Bioware team.

To end on a positive note, we wish to sincerely thank you for this saga that has profoundly influenced and fascinated us all these years, and that will remain in our memories for a long time.

A big THANK YOU!

The Francophone community of Bioware Social Network.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

you know that letter makes, our letters and stuff look like they were written by savages

[mupp3tz]

I'll finish putting it together completely and will requote the finalized draft. Thanks to everyone, and hopefully this guy will see this and be happy tomorrow.

[Razzandi]

Well color me impressed.  

Bioware, hats off to you!  You're actually completing Shepards goal of uniting many cultures towards a common goal!

I say we commission a Dreadnaught named the Lafayette for them to honor this occasion. 

[GeoFukari]

DinoSteve wrote...

you know that letter makes, our letters and stuff look like they were written by savages

This one would like to thank the French Community. Based on this ones expeiriance, This one has observed that they are a culture who are thorough and elegant.
This one deems that this is a major plus to our War Assets.