314 réponses à ce sujet

[Pangaron]

Welcome brothers and sisters!
We will stand against impossible odds together and with hope.

[Cgrissom]

 Ah, it's good to so many people standing together in this fight.

Welcome, our French allies! Welcome!

[toolfan9284]

@OP

You are most welcome brothers and sisters.

[Viper371]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Okay, I'll add on as we go.. maybe instead of re-quoting, I'll just quote when it's finally done. Sounds good?

Also, if anyone wants to add further proofreading or recommendations on formatting, etc. Have at it!

yeah, maybe wait untill all it's done for the proofreading. First, let us translate, then merge all of it, and correct it as you go   Others can help you as well

It's going to be easier this way, I think.

[Divitiacus]

This is good because it unifies the complaints instead of the chaos. One voice rises above a cacophony. I recommend Anglos duplicate the effort. A "retake" manifesto.

Modifié par Divitiacus, 25 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[GeoFukari]

This one thinks it would be a good idea if a new thread would be started when there is a full translation of this beautifully written letter.

[Fame-KIllz]

Our Effective Military Status is pretty large now I'd say...

[Cgrissom]

GeoFukari wrote...

This one thinks it would be a good idea if a new thread would be started when there is a full translation of this beautifully written letter.

I second this motion.

[AlphaDormante]

This is kind of cheesy and off-topic, but...

I'd like to extend my gratitude to the French Community. After two and a half weeks of fighting, I was beginning to wear down and lose hope. I would still check into BSN every day to see what I could do, but I was beginning to grow tired and felt like we were fighting a losing battle. Even reading my own pep talks that I've given to others didn't help me.

Then you, the French Community, extended your hand to us in friendship and cooperation. Ordinarily I don't think we'd ever cross the language/region barriers, but here you are, ready to stand and fight with us. All because of our unified love for this series. I see now that we're not as alone as I thought.

Thank you. Let us Hold the Line.

[Siegdrifa]

Translation done in the middle of the nigh for France (4:30 am there, for a thread made a few hours ago).... the BSN is indeed great.

<---- This French is humbled by your community's spirit.

Thank you very much.

[mupp3tz]

About to finish the rest of Viper's post & add the rest by another poster.

[babelcarlota]

Woot we got some French Forces!

[Elysis]

AlphaDormante wrote...

This is kind of cheesy and off-topic, but...

I'd like to extend my gratitude to the French Community. After two and a half weeks of fighting, I was beginning to wear down and lose hope. I would still check into BSN every day to see what I could do, but I was beginning to grow tired and felt like we were fighting a losing battle. Even reading my own pep talks that I've given to others didn't help me.

Then you, the French Community, extended your hand to us in friendship and cooperation. Ordinarily I don't think we'd ever cross the language/region barriers, but here you are, ready to stand and fight with us. All because of our unified love for this series. I see now that we're not as alone as I thought.

Thank you. Let us Hold the Line.

Have faith!
And to be fair, the game hasn't been out for THAT long- Unfortunatly, not everyone is as awesome as us and finished the game in two days

More people will come around. I just know it.

[GeoFukari]

This one would wish to inquire how the situation is in France. Are the forums also exhibiting displeasure with the game? Are the fans equally angry and in an uproar?

[lasertank]

War assets acquired.

[Cgrissom]

AlphaDormante wrote...

This is kind of cheesy and off-topic, but...

I'd like to extend my gratitude to the French Community. After two and a half weeks of fighting, I was beginning to wear down and lose hope. I would still check into BSN every day to see what I could do, but I was beginning to grow tired and felt like we were fighting a losing battle. Even reading my own pep talks that I've given to others didn't help me.

Then you, the French Community, extended your hand to us in friendship and cooperation. Ordinarily I don't think we'd ever cross the language/region barriers, but here you are, ready to stand and fight with us. All because of our unified love for this series. I see now that we're not as alone as I thought.

Thank you. Let us Hold the Line.

This isn't cheesy, my friend, it's how a lot of us feel but don't say often enough.

Modifié par Cgrissom, 25 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[Divitiacus]

Cgrissom wrote...

AlphaDormante wrote...

This is kind of cheesy and off-topic, but...

I'd like to extend my gratitude to the French Community. After two and a half weeks of fighting, I was beginning to wear down and lose hope. I would still check into BSN every day to see what I could do, but I was beginning to grow tired and felt like we were fighting a losing battle. Even reading my own pep talks that I've given to others didn't help me.

Then you, the French Community, extended your hand to us in friendship and cooperation. Ordinarily I don't think we'd ever cross the language/region barriers, but here you are, ready to stand and fight with us. All because of our unified love for this series. I see now that we're not as alone as I thought.

Thank you. Let us Hold the Line.

This isn't cheesy, my friend, it's how a lot of us feel but don't say often enough.

Group hug you guys. I'm glad we weren't forced by some godchild to all merge into one nationality to learn to love each other and work together.

[Blindspy]

Dear French BSN,

<3

Thank you for your contributions.  So far the letter looks really well-written and thought out.  It's awesome that a region that is mostly isolated from us came up with almost the exact same reasons for disliking the ending as we did.  This helps our cause in many ways.

Thanks again!
-Blind

[MrCabal]

I was about to begin the translation on the french BSN when I saw you already did 

I'd like to express my deepest gratitude for your lightspeed-work!

So, Battle Group Belgium reporting in and...

Hold the line!

[wicked_being]

I attempted to translate the letter using my super rusty knowledge of the French language and by the goddess...massive blood loss due to nosebleed. My brain just ruptured. Though I did get the gist of it. Thank you French fleet :wub:

DinoSteve wrote...

you know that letter makes, our letters and stuff look like they were written by savages

That's uh..true. Kind of sad and funny at same time haha. Their letter's elegantly presented while ours is uh...passionately raw?

Modifié par wicked_being, 25 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[wicked_being]

double post T_T post didn't appear.

Modifié par wicked_being, 25 mars 2012 - 03:22 .

[mupp3tz]

THE FINISHED LETTER.

[quote]
A letter from fans to the Bioware teams in charge of Mass Effect 3 (v.1.3)

Hello to the creative and production teams of Bioware.

We are the French, Belgian, and Francophone players who have finished the Mass Effect saga, through completion of the last episode of the series: Mass Effect 3.

We are aware of the controversy generated by the ending of Mass Effect 3, and have spent the last few weeks expressing our concerns about the issue through various threads on the French Bioware Social Network forum.

Our initiative to open a dialogue with you is very important to the French/Francophone players of the community.

For some time, a segment of the players have reacted in violent, aggressive, and, sometimes, downright offensive behavior towards your teams; however, a majority of us obviously condemn this despicable behavior. We want to adopt a more constructive approach, as you have given us the opportunity to express ourselves on this subject.

We are very thankful for this opportunity.

We intend to be humble, respectful, and open, and our objective is to ease the process of understanding player complaints throughout the French speaking communities. In addition, we believe that our opinions reflect those of many players throughout the world as well.

We all consider the Mass Effect trilogy to be a huge saga of rare quality, and we are deeply aware of the sizeable efforts you must have taken to give fans the games they wanted to play.

Mass Effect has deeply touched a huge quantity of players on the emotional level, more than many other video games. So, it is not a surprise that many people have waited patiently for this third and final episode.

The reaction of your most loyal fans may have shocked you, and some have been able to voice their feelings better
than others. We are a part of those fans, and we implore you to believe that our initiative is not just an immature
reaction – especially, since this feeling holds true for a majority of those who have finished the game – but a reflection of our feelings on the ending of Mass Effect 3.

We hope that you carefully consider what we have to say in the following statement, because we want to have an open discussion and not impose anything on you.

We respect the concept of intellectual property and your authority to make decisions; however, we want to express ourselves in the hopes that you can give us a more fitting end than what we were given.

A majority of the Mass Effect 3 ending was well done, and, for this reason, we are hurt even more by the ending.

“Why are a majority of players not satisfied with Mass Effect 3’s ending?”

We want to clarify this through 3 points:

    1) What the community did not like
    2) What the community would have liked, and
    3) Solutions by the community to help developers for future content.

So, with that said...

1. What the community did not like:

     a. The feeling that developers did not keep their promise about the impact of decisions on the game.

As an example, here are some promises made:

(http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2)

[quote]“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.” [/quote](http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/)

[quote]“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”
[/quote]
(http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2)

[quote]Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2]
“Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson:
“Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.” [/quote]

Given these promises made by Bioware, a genuine feeling of frustration, even betrayal, has emerged.  Indeed, the final climax gives us three choices, choices that we can compare to endings A, B, or C.

We also wonder why the choices that we previously made throughout the adventure have no real impact, or at least not the impact that we expected, since we understand that the consequence of our choices are reflected in the Total Military Strength (TMS).

However, it is regrettable that everything depends on a numerical value, that our choices to save the Rachni, cure the Krogan or betray them, side with the Salarian Dalatrass, save the Collector base or not, end the war between the Quarian and the Geth, all come down to War Asset score. We feel that in the end, all we have done is accumulate points, not help galactic allies.

Our choices do write the core of the scenario, our scenario, but why are the consequences of these choices not reflected in the ending itself? The only element that reminds us that we have rallied all the races is a scene where Admiral Hackett asks for a report from each fleet before the assault on Earth.

We are aware that our choices affect game mechanics, but we would have liked that our choices affect scenario possibilities.

For example, whether or not we have the Krogan as allies, as long as we have a certain amount of Effective Millitary Strength points, the three options are offered to the player.

Our point is that we no longer feel like we have to face the consequences of our choices.  Another example would be the final dialogue with the Illusive Man. We feel that our dialogue choices have no influence on the conclusion of this confrontation, that results inexorably in the death of the Illusive Man.

     The many plotholes and inconsistencies.

The frustration is amplified by a disturbing Deux Ex Machina, the Catalyst Child or Starchild.  We have the feeling that everything we have accomplished thus far is negated by the sudden apparition of an entity that gives us the illusion of choices in a finite arc in which, no matter what we decide, we feel trapped and smothered.

The experiences of each player is certainly personal, their stories written by their own choices, but all converge to a single endings arc regardless of the story molded by the player.

Furthermore, the Starchild’s explanations fail to be convincing. Harvest organics to protect them from synthetics? Why then don’t the Reapers destroy synthetics? And even that would not be coherent, given that the Quarian and the Geth can find a durable resolution to their conflict.

With this point, we want to point out a series of inconsistencies within the scenario:

- Why does Hackett call for retreat after Shepard gets struck by the death ray, even though the way is now open due to Harbinger vacating the grounds?

- Why are there no enemy troops protecting the Citadel? ... Considering that the conduit represents a great risk to the Reapers.

- In addition, why does the conduit bring us directly to the central unit that opens the arms of the Citadel?  Wasn't this type of immediate access a careless decision by the Reapers?

- How did Anderson arrive safe and sound before Shepard, even though Anderson was supposed to have crossed the conduit after Shepard?  Also, why was he teleported to a different room than Shepard?

- Why doesn't the Illusive Man control Shepard and force him to commit suicide if Shepard was such an obstacle to his goal?

- After Anderson dies, why is Shepard wounded on the same exact place as Anderson?  Nothing indicates that he was hurt on this side.  How is this possible?

- How is Shepard's radio still working, even though his armor is completely destroyed?

- How is Admiral Hackett aware that Shepard has made it to the Citadel?  Shepard penetrates the conduit after all the human troops fell back.  How could anyone have seen him going into the Citadel?

- What happened to the two teammates who accompany us during the rush towards the conduit?  How did they end up back on the Normandy?

- How is it possible for Shepard to survive the explosion of the Citadel and the Crucible after the ending sequence where he destroys the Reapers?

- Why does the Starchild even give Shepard the option to destroy the Reapers, even though the Starchild believes that "reaping" is necessary?  Doesn't this completely destroy all his work in the preceeding cycles?

- Why does Joker quit the fight? It is not his nature to be a coward... in fact, it's quite the opposite!

These questions may be small details, but, once accumulated, they provoke a feeling of a botched ending.  One that is rushed, incoherent, fuzzy, disconnected from the rest of the game, and does not answer some of the important questions -- on top of adding new questions, such as:

What happens to all the characters?  What happens to all the races? How does the galaxy evolve without mass relays?  How does life continue to exist if the destruction of all the mass effect relays means multiple explosions that destroy the entire solar system (as seen on Mass Effect 2's Arrival DLC)?

With all of this said, let's move on to our next point.

2) What the community would have liked

Whatever ending we choose, there seems to be a missed opportunity for a meaningful epilogue that explains what happens to the characters, the different races, to Shepard and his/her LI, and the choices we have made.  The ending cinmeatic shows that the Normandy crashes, followed by a scene of a grandfather and a child.  It seems like there is something lacking, and this leaves us feeling extremely unsatisfied.

An epilogue would end the adventure.  It would provide a way for players to say goodbye to the world they created with passion and love.  Our hopes as players perfected by two elements: gameplay and story.

     a) Gameplay

This point overlaps with the problems linked to the lack of choice referred to in the last paragraph.  The end gave us a huge space battle occuring in Earth's orbit and a fierce ground battle that involved Shepard and his squad.

This is what we expected, but the problem in the execution is that we are given the impression of simply being spectators and not actually undergoing the events.

We expected to take part in a sort of galatic war game, where we would be able to deploy our troops and choose which race/fleet fought whom.  This is where our decisions could have been reflected!

The idea is not to transform the gameplay into a simple board game (as Mass Effect is still a TPS), but something as simple as utilizing the dialogue wheel could have made this work.

Here is an example to better illustrate this idea:

The Reapers' force puts pressure on the Human-Turian alliance.

The player would then be given the option to choose which fleet will provide aid, depending on the ones available (i.e. Asari, Geth, Quarian, Krogan, Rachni, etc.)  Each fleet has it's own advantages and disadvantages.  Each deployment would be crucial! 

We could also deploy ground troops to aid the resistance's fight.  Here, we would also have the choice to deploy another army.  If we decided to send the krogans to aid in space, then we would not have the option to mobilize them on Earth, etc.  Essentially, the battle plays out like a giant chess board, where we are able to command our armies and establish strategies that determine the outcome of the battle -- resulting in loses or victories, depending on our decisions.

You have already used a similar system during the Suicide Mission in Mass Effect 2.  The choices we made regarding which squad member to place in charge of certain tasks were extremely important for survival.  This idea was absolutely amazing and engaged the player on a strategic and emotional level.

We were expecting something similar at the end of Mass Effect 3: the choice to coordinate the different battle fronts via acquired War Assets, and see how they impacted the war.

     Concerning the scenario

There are events that we would have liked to experience during the ending of Mass Effect 3.

First of all, a confrontation with Harbinger.  After Mass Effect 2, two enemies became clear to us: The Illusive Man and Harbinger.  

The Illusive Man (TIM) was incorporated in a very satisfactory way in Mass Effect 3, even though we would have liked to see him play a more important part in the grand finale; however, Harbinger was always the real threat as he is the head entity of the Reapers.  Other than a description in the codex and a brief appearance during the final battle, Harbinger was absent during a majority of the game.

In the same way we confronted Sovereign, we would have liked to be confronted by Harbinger via dialogue and also combat (physical or psychological.)  There should have been a fight against him where all the companions we met during the adventure are given a role in the battle -- as this is as much their fight as it is Shepard's.

We also have some regrets concerning our companions.

The possibility to communicate one last time with the companions of Mass Effect 2 through an intercom was a great idea, and we felt that this was an emotional moment; however, we would have preferred it if we could have just said our goodbyes in person.  The idea of being on the battlefield at the head of a squad that included all our companions seems justified: everyone fighting together in an epic and emotional battle where the collective desire to overcome the enemy is mixed with the fear of losing the people we have come to love throughout the years.

Imagine: receiving the ongoing assault of marauders, weakening under their fire, and suddenly seeing Jack and her students make the enemies burst with biotics.  Suddenly, enraged brutes emerge from the blazing grounds.  Soldiers begin to feel fear... until the powerful krogan and rachni army, led by the Rachni Queen, Wrex/Wreave, and Grunt, appear and assault the enemy.  During this, a violent fight could be taking place between the banshees and the asari commandos led by Samara and the other matriarchs.

Just imagine it.

Everyone would be united and all the choices we made throughout the game would be really meaningful.  New choices would naturally come to us, such as what strategy to adopt for the ground battles, as everything leads to the final confrontation between Shepard and Harbinger.

In regards to moral choices and the endings:

The ones presented to us at the end don't seem to make much sense and are too confining.  We understand your position in wanting to conclude on a bittersweet note, but the problem is that no matter what we choose... there is only one ending.  Bittersweet.  No matter what.

We would have liked to see very different endings.  For example: a happy one, a bittersweet one, and a tragic one, with all the subtlety and complexity that each of our decisions would have made. 

Moreover, you could have further exploited the repercussions of using Reaper tech and artifacts in fighting the Reapers, or the decision to keep the Collector base. 

In conclusion, the writing seems to be the problem.

The staging of the story has always been, throughout the games, a complete success.  We just think that all the emotion you managed to create at the end of the game would have been better amplified by different endings and developments.

We hope that this opinion, shared by most of our community, will help you understand our reactions, interrogations, and doubts surrounding the endings.  Following this controversy, we have decided to act.  To propose content to enlighten the endings and bring something that will satisfy the fans.

The bond of trust between your studio and us players has always been special.  We feel like we are being listened to and want to help you in building this adventure that has lasted for over five years.

We do not know the nature of the content that you are working on, but what we do have are some ideas and solutions that might come in handy.

3) Solutions brought by the community to help the developers in their future artistic journey

We understand that it is very hard for you to change the endings.  We also know that the content in preparation will be extra content, and not an actual change.  We can only assume that whatever will be released will take place after the events of Mass Effect 3.

The question we ask ourselves is:
"How do you overcome player deception and, at the same time, include elements they would like to see?"

An answer to this question has emerged on the web, and it is probably something that you have already heard about: the indoctrination theory.

Here are a few links that explain what this is all about:





The indoctrination theory is extremely interesting for 3 different reasons:
   - It solves the problems addressed in point number 1.
   - It provides a way for Bioware to keep the endings that they created, and
   - It opens the possibility to directly include elements from point number 2.

If you take a look at the forums, you'll realize that this theory is highly praised by the fans.  They see it as an intelligent and coherent way to explain the endings.

There is also another solution provided by the community: the chance for Shepard to refuse the Catalyst's solutions and ignore them.  Shepard would make his own decision to fight the Reapers the conventional way.  Such a reaction makes sense with the character of Commander Shepard, who, throughout the games, has always refused to give in to the Reapers and is determined to find another way.

In conclusion,

We are aware that you are in a delicate position.  We also know that gamers should not impose their decisions on the developers.  Nevertheless, we hope that you take the ideas in this letter into consideration.

The ball is in your court and the choice is ultimately yours.

We have no intention to put you under pressure, despite the content of this letter.

We emphasize that our goal is to provide vision, clarity, and aid.

We are aware that it is difficult to respond positively to these comments and requests, but we also believe that consistent and realistic solutions have been provided in this letter.

We hope to have an open dialogue with you that will lead to an ending that satisfies not only the fans, but also, you, the Bioware team.

To end on a positive note, we wish to sincerely thank you for this saga that has been such a profoundly influencial and fascinating experience for us during these past five years.  The journey will remain in our memories for a long time.

A BIG "THANK YOU!" FROM,

The Francophone community of Bioware Social Network.

[quote]
Submitted: gendocrono (representing some of the French BSN fans)
French > English Translations: ginger, S Atomeha, elysis, and Viper371
Format / Proofread: M U P P 3 T Z[/quote][/quote]
[/quote]

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 25 mars 2012 - 05:22 .

[GeoFukari]

Now that the translation is done, this one's previous statement of making a new thread would likely be a sufficient idea.

[Siegdrifa]

GeoFukari wrote...

This one would wish to inquire how the situation is in France. Are the forums also exhibiting displeasure with the game? Are the fans equally angry and in an uproar?

This look like here, you find some people who doesn't have problem with the ending, few days ago one of them said he was okay on a french site, saying "well Mass Effect is like a movie to me, i watched it, saw how it ended, and moved on, so i don't care".
But other fans who loved deeply the games for his story and characters are impacted as the others world wide, and they are waiting for a "fix" in order to play the game again, and every time i see a thread about Mass Effect 3 ending, the list of people complaining an voicing their opinion is more important than those who are satisfied.

So, nothing different from this place, may be minus the strong infighting.... our neibors know we are the best (or the worst, up to you, each fit us) complainers in the world, we couldn't stay a nation if we had to get at each other throat for not tolerating others opinion, that's why we have many political parties even for a small country.
Check Asterix comics if you want a funny cliché of our legendary infighting for every and any reasons.

[mupp3tz]

Thanks for the update! I've been very curious about the response by gamers around the world regarding the ending. It's quite nice (and a little unfortunate considering what we are discussing) to see that others got the same feeling as us.

Also, no worries, there is more than enough infighting on the US BSN as well. There is no doubt about that!