287 réponses à ce sujet

[Nicator]

spychi wrote...
who gives a rat ass about what she says, the game treats you like a fool after all

Just because you wave your hands and loudly proclaim you don't care doesn't mean it's any less true.
Unlike your numbers, which are just randomly made up,  the prediction I've given comes from the volus, a quite credible source on matters of economy.

[spychi]

Nicator wrote...

spychi wrote...
who gives a rat ass about what she says, the game treats you like a fool after all

Just because you wave your hands and loudly proclaim you don't care doesn't mean it's any less true.
Unlike your numbers, which are just randomly made up,  the prediction I've given comes from the volus, a quite credible source on matters of economy.

No **** for a second I thought we had some facts here

this is all speculations nothing will come out of this either way, just a clarification on people's opinion; who think it was possible and people who think otherwise

[MakeMineMako]

SNascimento wrote...

Seriously, there is no evidence that the repaers could be defeated. All major battles were lost, in the galaxy map before the Battle for Earth the reapers are pushing agaisnt all systems.
.
The strongest argument is that the reapers would be stretched thin. But this is just a supposition based in no facts. Just look at the Battle for Earth, even though the reapers are everywhere, there are dozens of them to fight the combined fleet of the galaxy.

The reason the Reapers spread through so much territory in that time has more to do with the strength of opposing forces. The militaries of some of the larger powers were frustrating the efforts of the Reapers in a major way.

Most colonies in Human space don't have large garrisons. And most of the minor players in Citadel space have smaller militaries. Pirates, mercenary, and slaver groups are only a minimum threat to Reaper space-bourne forces.

The Asari Republics did not have a large standing military, due to their historical reliance on diplomacy and economic means to deal with other races (a major reason Thessia fell so quickly). Their military was loosely organized and focused on small unit actions. This could also be said of the Salarian Union, but with a more centralized military structure and government.

When looking at the powerhouse militaries in Mass Effect, we see a slightly different "big picture". In these cases, the Reapers were shown, for the most part, not be be infallible or invincible.

The Batarian Hegemony (the exception to this) was taken down in a classic Reaper "cut the head off of the snake" strategy. They came into Batarian Space without warning, used indoctrinated agents (Leviathan of Dis), and quickly disrupted C3 networks. Similar to what they did with the Prothean Empire, just without the Citadel. In my opinion, the Batarians would have been as much a thorn in the Reapers side as the Turians and Humans, if not for that.

Despite their blitzkrieg assault on Alliance space, a fair precentage of the Alliance Navy survived (enough to remain combat effective). The Reapers, despite having decimated the Alliance presence on Earth, and reducing the effectivness of the national militaries' operations, still did not completely subjugate Earth. This was due mostly to Shepard's warnings finally being heeded. While late in coming, it kept the Alliance from completely falling apart quickly and allowed the fight to continue (presumably coordinated/led by David Anderson Earth-side; Hackett off-world).

The Turian Hierarchy was holding fast (and like the Alliance, had some forewarning). They were taking hellacious losses, but the Reapers hadn't yet won by the time the final assault on Earth began (to my knowledge). The Krogan (potent ground forces) getting involved not only bought the Turians time, but allowed a major victory against the Reapers ( "Miracle at Palaven").

The Migrant Fleet and Geth would have been a big boost to the allies from the start, if not for their private little war. But they don't factor into my argument, unless peace is brokered between the two parties. Afterward, despite their losses in the war for Rannoch; the sheer size of their fleets, the Geth Corps, and their logistical capabilities, would have been sufficent to deny the Reapers a quick victory (even without assets of the other powers). Combined with the other allied forces, it gave the allies a chance at long term victory, even without the Crucible. A pyrrhic victory in the end. But a victory in the war, nonetheless.

This "cycle" was different from the previous one, thanks to losing the Citadel as a quick way in the back door.  The Reapers had to use brute force for the most part, world by world. System by system. Cluster by cluster. Slow and steady. The good guys had time to prepare to varying degrees, thus fierce resistance. Those little Reaper icons on the galaxy map only indicate Reaper activity, not Reaper conquests. The strategic situation allowed for a fighting chance against the Reapers.

From an in-universe point of view, Hackett's opinion that the Reapers couldn't be beat conventionally was only an educated opinion as a military man. Understandable, considering the situation before Shepard organized the "grand alliance" to take the war back to the Reapers. Without that alliance, even the big kids on the block would have eventually been destroyed.  With it, even if the Crucible failed (which it did, in a way), there was a fighting chance. Which was better than the situation before ME3.


Nerd moment complete. Just my opinion, by the way. Others will differ.

[Troubleshooter11]

MakeMineMako wrote...


*Snipped for length*

I agree with your points. I was kinda hoping Hackett meant the conventional tactics they employed would only work vs the known organic opponents but proved ineffective against the Reapers. Sadly he meant: "Sheppy! We need Space Magic!".

Personally i think Hammer and Sword should NOT have suffered the sheer amount of losses they did, unless you got into battle with minimal EMS, risking yourself a high "Critical Mission Failure" ending and being thrown back to the pre-Cerberus Base savegame it appearantly makes so you could try getting more allies.

Dispite the fact that the Reapers are superior, the entire combined fleet if you include the Quarians and Geth is massive. With the new Reaper-based weapons and organized counterattack, i think the plot should have been about gathering allies, investigating Reaper weaknesses and winning enough small victories to turn the tide here and there so your allies give you ships. After which you liberate Earth using the combined fleet and TAKE EARTH BACK, which was the motto they plastered all over ME3. Maybe Shepard lives, maybe he dies, depending on your choices.

DLC's could then be added to further kick the Reapers out of the galaxy if Shepard survived, with a "grand finale" DLC at the end which will determine Shepard's final destiny, where and how he dies, or how he survives, depending on your choices throughout the entire series. 

I think there would have been a whole lot less complaining and dissapointment about the plot and it's single tri-coloured ending. Even those who dont mind the ending or the plot would probably have to admit that this kind of 'conventional warfare' plot would be more gratifying and above all: EPIC.

I am guessing the allies were suffering horrendous losses regardless of your EMS so Bioware could justify using the galaxy destroying SPACE MAGIC ending they were appearantly so dead set on using.

[Troubleshooter11]

It's just my opinion though, no need to go spreading it around...

[Tunasandwich395]

I think they could have handled this war like the Allies handled the Japs in WWII. A planet hopping campaign, working it's way to Sol. The place that they seem to imply has it the worst.

They would need to be even worse that the Allies towards the end though.... anti-mass weapons? Something rewiring sacrifice? Only conventional method I see.

[Corrik Ronis]

Yes, though it would require more strategy than "throw ships at reapers".

Hold the line.

[Pepitobenito]

 It would pretty much nullify the threat of the Reapers, and render any belief that they've done this thousands of times (if not more) completely unbelievable.  Even if they'd beaten the contingent of Reapers at Earth, we can be sure there would be hundreds, if not thousands more in other systems ready to launch a second offensive.  Sovereign did say their numbers would darken the skies of every world...

[Warp92]

thesnake777 wrote...

I think so. It would take a great toll on the the fleets but I think it could have been done.

This, but I am sure they would prefer to take a toll then to not being able to return home IE exploding relays.

[Corvus74]

Pepitobenito wrote...

 It would pretty much nullify the threat of the Reapers, and render any belief that they've done this thousands of times (if not more) completely unbelievable.  Even if they'd beaten the contingent of Reapers at Earth, we can be sure there would be hundreds, if not thousands more in other systems ready to launch a second offensive.  Sovereign did say their numbers would darken the skies of every world...

Never before have the Reapers faced a unified galaxy who can mass a fleet that outnumbers the Reapers on such a massive scale.

Every single other time the Reapers have hit the Citadel first and then shut down the mass relays, isolating their victims in small pockets that have been unable to aid each other and then systematically picking them off, and even that is a fight that takes centuries.

The Reapers went out of their way to avoid such a confrontation as they are forced into in ME3, first by Rachni, then Saren and then Collectors.  When all had failed they had no other option left than to try to slug it out, which in my mind says they were worried it may not have worked if the galaxy managed to unify against then.  It was why the struck at the homeworlds first, trying to isolate each race from the others.

[Pepitobenito]

Corvus74 wrote...

Pepitobenito wrote...

 It would pretty much nullify the threat of the Reapers, and render any belief that they've done this thousands of times (if not more) completely unbelievable.  Even if they'd beaten the contingent of Reapers at Earth, we can be sure there would be hundreds, if not thousands more in other systems ready to launch a second offensive.  Sovereign did say their numbers would darken the skies of every world...

Never before have the Reapers faced a unified galaxy who can mass a fleet that outnumbers the Reapers on such a massive scale.

Every single other time the Reapers have hit the Citadel first and then shut down the mass relays, isolating their victims in small pockets that have been unable to aid each other and then systematically picking them off, and even that is a fight that takes centuries.

The Reapers went out of their way to avoid such a confrontation as they are forced into in ME3, first by Rachni, then Saren and then Collectors.  When all had failed they had no other option left than to try to slug it out, which in my mind says they were worried it may not have worked if the galaxy managed to unify against then.  It was why the struck at the homeworlds first, trying to isolate each race from the others.

That's an assumption; we can't know how previous cycles went.  Chances are most of them were taken completely unawares like the Protheans, but with the process taking place over and over hundreds or thousands of times, there's a good chance that some past organic civilizations had put up a good fight.

Anyways, I'd always gone with the reasoning that the Reapers subvert organics with these cloak and dagger tactics (the Rachni, the Citadel ambush, etc) for the purpose of simply making the harvest that much easier and cleaner.  They would rather not destroy the crop they seek to harvest, and there's no point in taking unnecessary losses.  They're machines, and think like machines; efficiency and calculating patience produce the greatest result, but I'd highly doubt they'd risk losing everything each cycle on the dependence of indoctrination and trickery entirely.  

Failing all that, just take into consideration the effort it took to take down Sovereign alone.

Modifié par Pepitobenito, 26 mars 2012 - 12:13 .

[Lexagg]

Considering that alliance ships had access to advanced weaponry that bypassed kinetic barriers completely (Thanix cannons or whatever they are called), of course they had a chance. Target the "eye" with shields-bypassing weapon should have been viable tactic. They could also try to BOARD the reapers and disable them from the inside. We know reapers do have a drive core. Get a team of krogans in and sabotage it!

To be honest, I don't really like how movies or games portray massive battles because there's hardly ever any strategy or tactics involved, just a massive melee. Think Dragon Age Ostagar. Same problem with ME3.

[Corvus74]

Another factor I think people may be forgetting is the Geth.

Their fleet seems to be as large as the Quarians from the footage we saw. While both sides suffer losses, if you manage to resolve things peacefully and get both sides in your alliance, that is, what, another sixty or eighty thousand ships?

More, as true AI now, the Geth can't be indoctrinated, can't be taken over by the Reapers anymore, don't rest or sleep, and work constantly. They would be able to churn out ships at a prodigious rate.

Image a few more of those monster dreadnoughts we saw? From what we were shown they would appear to be able to go one on one with a Reaper.

It would have been the height of irony if the very things (synthetic AI) that the Reapers were worried about proved to be the means of their downfall.

Modifié par Corvus74, 26 mars 2012 - 01:38 .