287 réponses à ce sujet

[Calamity]

In the codex it talks about reaper shielding and how they are vulnerable at certain times. I think it may have been possible after reading that...

[jameshawking]

Initially it was supposed to be possible.

In-game you max out at a bit over 7k, so if you went past 7,000 you were supposed to actually, militarily, be winning that fight.

keep in mind, that was when it was supposed to be the Dark Matter ending, so beating the Reapers, at that time, was supposed to possibly be a bad thing.

[fafnir magnus]

Via unconventional Guerilla warfare, yes. Static defense is technically impossible unless the reapers coalesce their forces like the did at earth, because in space you have a three dimensional avenue of attack. The shocking thing is that the reapers were not actively monitoring the arcturus Relay.

As far as plan-of-action for the war goes, unless you're willing to lose a LOT of planets when the reapers attack each one en masse, no, you can't "win" conventionally.

You can attack isolated reapers, and even overwhelm some reaper presences. The reaper numbers are neither properly demonstrated, documented, etc etc. Too many unknowns left in the ending, conclusion impossible to reach

[Nobrandminda]

 Possibly.

The Reapers have never had to take on the combined might of the galaxy in a straight up fight before, they've always relied on the element of surprise that comes with taking out the seat of government.

[Baronesa]

From the codex:

"Reaper Vulnerabilities

Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.

Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding deactivated. Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.

In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction. Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.

The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before they are themselves destroyed.

The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's kinetic barriers at only partial strength.

Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren. The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw.

Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts, but to do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in combat situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought to emerge from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to bear faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic, however, against Reapers flying in proper formation."

Now, we must remember what Garrus and Shepard say at the beginning... you can't win against the Reapers with conventional tactics. Guerrilla warfare on a big scale with the fleet would minimize loses while really hurting the Reapers. As long as you ar eok with sacrificing a few homeworlds. Earth and Thessia would most likely be too destroyed if you follow the path of liberating systems with a small presence of Reapers

[CrazyCatDude]

Calinstel wrote...

It was clear in the very short space battle we could see that conventional weapons could destroy a reaper. Now, take even something like a shuttle that has FTL. Boost the speed TO FTL and drive it into even one of the Dreadnought class Reapers and it would feel it. Someone else can work up the math to show just what kilotonnage (megatonnage?) that impact would cause.
Plus, moving at that speed, the shuttle (drone) would be invisible to the Reapers sensors until it actually hit.

They blow apart a reaper dreadnaught with the opening volley of the battle.

[Calamity]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

I think if they'd spent those months building dreadnaughts instead of the crucible, refitting all their ships with Thanix cannons and Javelin launchers etc, they would have been able to take the Reapers in a straight up fight. After all, the Thanix was reverse engineered from the Reaper's own weapons. Add to that sending a team to reverse engineer the barriers on the reaper you destroyed on Rannoch (Have the Geth do it, since they can't be indoctrinated or huskified) and you'd have had much higher chance, since you could go toe to toe on equal terms.

Agree completely with this post.

[Bocks]

On Earth?

Possibly.

In the entire galaxy?

Reapers would have mopped the floor with Shepard and his puny fleets.

[Moosasarous]

No. The fleet was getting donkey stomped.

[Lyria]

Crocmon wrote...

Shoot the big eyes, which are their main guns. Then yea, they were weak to conventional warfare. Problem was there was just so many.

Again, this is a detail Bioware seemed to render along with Phoenix Down. (Phoenix Down doesn't work in cut-scenes, et cetera)

*cries for Aeris*

In the cut scenes, I only lost a few ships. I had every race, both mechanical and biological, united and the weakness if tue Reapers was known....yet Starchild said no.

[General User]

ZiegenkonigIII wrote...

Seeing as how the krogan/turian alliance managed to destroy several destroyer-class Reapers on Palaven I think it's very possible.

Aye and a few capital ships too.

[corkey sweet]

Agamo45 wrote...

The fleet was getting torn to shreds from what I understood. The fleet was basically providing a distraction while 'Hammer' stormed the beam up into the Citadel.

the fleet was doing fine. i even saw some reapers getting blown up in my endings

[Artking3]

Conventionally, using traditional ship to ship combat? Probably not.

Unconventionally, using special operations teams and clever tactics? A much better chance.

[Alamar2078]

I doubt a purely conventional victory would be possible. Somewhere you need an anti "SOB" machine [to borrow a phrase from Halo].

[DarkSpiral]

Zix13 wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Nope. 

Capital class Reapers are incredibly tough to destroy. It would take down hundreds of ships before you could kill it. And theres atleast hundreds if ot thousands of them.

Codex says 4 dreadnaughts can destroy a reaper capital ship.

It says it takes the sustained fire of four dreadnaughts to take their shields down.  Care to make a wager on what the Reaper would be DOING while four dreadnaughts are shooting at it?  Considering it can one-shot any ship the current cycle has produced?

The combined fleet had no chane at conventional victory.  None.  It is made clear many different times in conversation with Hackket.  I don't like the MacGuffin they introduced with the Crucible either, but the Reapers power is what it is.

[Clayless]

No they couldn't have won. They hammer this into over the course of 3 games.

[luzburg]

i think so you start picking off sovergin class reapers quite early in the sword battle when ems is high enough. and i thought the thanix cannons is underated in me3 cause it took two shots to destroy a reaper tech ship in mass effect 3.
and a whole fleet with it is gonna cause serius dammage

[sergio71785]

No of course not. It's absolutely impossible to defeat the reapers conventionally. You need a minimum of 4 dreadnaughts to kill one capital reaper, and yet there is a very limited number of dreadnaughts in the galaxy. In fact, Reaper main guns can one-shot any other ship. Without dreadnaughts, you could throw entire fleets of smaller ships at a reaper and have no real effect. The only reason Sovereign was defeated was because killing Saren knocked out its shields.

That huge fleet you can amass to take to earth, consisting of every race in the galaxy, is just to take on the reapers around one planet. There's reaper forces all over the galaxy.

Modifié par sergio71785, 25 mars 2012 - 12:07 .

[Jack_Forest]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

They blow apart a reaper dreadnaught with the opening volley of the battle.

BW confirmed that it was actually a cruiser.
But each race, afaik, is supposed to have like 6-8 dreadnaughts. Well, I am sure they build a few dozens between ME1 and ME2, but hey...

[corkey sweet]

luzburg wrote...

i think so you start picking off sovergin class reapers quite early in the sword battle when ems is high enough. and i thought the thanix cannons is underated in me3 cause it took two shots to destroy a reaper tech ship in mass effect 3.
and a whole fleet with it is gonna cause serius dammage

yep, if your ems is high enough, multiple reapers are destroyed in the opening fleet battle.

[justafan]

A victory at Earth? well maybe if they decide to use those thanix cannons they might prevail. But it would be a heavy loss, and there are still lots of reaper in other systems. So they could win the battle conventionally yes, but they would still probably lose the war.

[Arl Raylen]

Calinstel wrote...

It was clear in the very short space battle we could see that conventional weapons could destroy a reaper. Now, take even something like a shuttle that has FTL. Boost the speed TO FTL and drive it into even one of the Dreadnought class Reapers and it would feel it. Someone else can work up the math to show just what kilotonnage (megatonnage?) that impact would cause.
Plus, moving at that speed, the shuttle (drone) would be invisible to the Reapers sensors until it actually hit.

You should read the Codex. All FTL cores/computational systems have inherent and unchangeable aspects of them which cannot allow a ship to be crashed into another ship or object in general. Therefore your strategy wouldn't work.

Also Thanix cannons wouldn't beat the Reapers either. It's also said in the codex that Thanix Cannons cannot be made on a large scale; meaning Cruisers and Dreadnoughts cannot equip them as their main gun. Therefore the strongest possible Thanix is seen on Frigates and they only give them the strength of a cruiser; which isn't enough to win conventionally.

[Sir_Alric]

_NF_Von_Lipwig wrote...

I tink it should have been possible. In my opinion, it would have made for a much better game experience overall.

After all, the Reapers' main strategic advantage throughout all their cycles was the fact that they could completely annihilate enemy mobility (disabling Mass Relays) and central leadership (taking over the Citadel), meaning they could focus on slaughtering gigantic empires system by system. However, this time their clever plan failed and they had to fight against a united galaxy.

THAT is what I thought would be the clincher; the Reapers' plan failed and now they faced odds they never anticipated they would. Unfortunately, Bioware opted for the easy way out: a big superweapon to wipe out Reapers: that bloody Crucible.

I still think the Crucible is A) an unnecessary story mechanic and a waste of resources better spent on building up a fleet with improved shielding, mobility and weaponry.

^ This.

[Arl Raylen]

corkey sweet wrote...

luzburg wrote...

i think so you start picking off sovergin class reapers quite early in the sword battle when ems is high enough. and i thought the thanix cannons is underated in me3 cause it took two shots to destroy a reaper tech ship in mass effect 3.
and a whole fleet with it is gonna cause serius dammage

yep, if your ems is high enough, multiple reapers are destroyed in the opening fleet battle.

In the first cinematic or in a later one? Cause in my low EMS and high EMS playthroughs the initial Space Battle cinematic looked pretty identical in each one.