287 réponses à ce sujet

[NormanRawn]

Jesusland wrote...

Looked like the combined fleets of the galaxy were holding their own when the Normandy broke off.  Could the Alliance have prevailed against the Reaper fleet using conventional means?  Discuss.

They may have been able to win at Earth, but at a huge cost to their numbers. The war would have been eventually lost if they faught conventionally. Maybe over decades they could resist, like the Protheans, but the Reapers would eventually win.

[ediskrad327]

nope, it did not work for the Protheans nor whatever came before them.....but i wish starchild at the end never appeared

[sergio71785]

Thannix cannons are just smaller, weaker imitations of the Reaper's main weapon. It's like taking a gun to a gun fight, except your gun is a lot smaller and weaker. 

[sniper1250]

I guess this is one of the topics Bioware will have to "explain" more in that DLC they keep saying will make things more clear.

[Clayless]

Calinstel wrote...

CrazyCatDude wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

It was clear in the very short space battle we could see that conventional weapons could destroy a reaper. Now, take even something like a shuttle that has FTL. Boost the speed TO FTL and drive it into even one of the Dreadnought class Reapers and it would feel it. Someone else can work up the math to show just what kilotonnage (megatonnage?) that impact would cause.
Plus, moving at that speed, the shuttle (drone) would be invisible to the Reapers sensors until it actually hit.

They blow apart a reaper dreadnaught with the opening volley of the battle.

Note really sure what you mean.
What I was pointing out is that Dreadnoughts fire 18 kg or larger rounds at about 1.3% of light.  
Now, take a ship (manned or drone) weighing in at around say 10,000 kg, moving at 100% the speed of light would be orders of magnitude more destructive.  And, if a QED is used to control, then the attacking fleet would never even need to be in range of the enemy (Reapers)

You can't do that. Read the codex.

[Costin_Razvan]

There is no way you can win conventionally against the Reapers, this is mentioned several times in the game.

The final battle? You bring most of your fleets but the Reapers don't and they still trash you pretty badly ( if you have low they almost obliterate your forces ).

[Arl Raylen]

sergio71785 wrote...

Thannix cannons are just MUCH smaller, MUCH weaker imitations of the Reaper's main weapon. It's like taking a gun to a gun fight, except your gun is a lot smaller and weaker. 

Fixed.

The most powerful Thanix Cannons (Strength of Organic Cruiser's Mass Drivers) are very weak compared to the main gun on a Sovereign class Reaper.

[Ultai]

The fleet is only there to buy time, Hackett says a few times in the game they can't win conventionally.

[ZerebusPrime]

I don't recall seeing a single non-Reaper thanix cannon fire in this game. I wanted to see what the beam that cored the Collector ship with just a few shots would do to a Reaper.

[RogueBot]

If they spent their crucible budget on M-920 Cains instead, then yes it would actually be as simple as pointing and clicking.

[CerealWar]

In ME2, it was implied that an invasion on Earth was required to finish the human reaper. If it takes billions of people to produce one reaper, how many reapers can be produced from each harvest?

Shep alone witnesses 4 reapers destroyed. The codex mentions that several capital ships are destroyed during a bold Turian attack. And one can assume that the Turians and Krogan must have at least taken out a few destroyers.

If only several reapers are produced each cycle, and more than that number are destroyed during the course of each harvest, wouldn't attrition have taken its toll on them? They've already gone through thousands of cycles.

[Arl Raylen]

Calinstel wrote...

Arl Raylen wrote...

You should read the Codex. All FTL cores/computational systems have inherent and unchangeable aspects of them which cannot allow a ship to be crashed into another ship or object in general. Therefore your strategy wouldn't work.

Also Thanix cannons wouldn't beat the Reapers either. It's also said in the codex that Thanix Cannons cannot be made on a large scale; meaning Cruisers and Dreadnoughts cannot equip them as their main gun. Therefore the strongest possible Thanix is seen on Frigates and they only give them the strength of a cruiser; which isn't enough to win conventionally.

An FTL core is just an eezo core with power flowing into it.  If that is used and is not coupled to any navigation, then there can be no inherent or unchangable aspects.
And even if true, moving at 99% light, still not FTL so these factors would not be involved, would do almost the same damage.  And come now.  If a Cerberus can, in just a few short months, learn to not only create but control their own husks, overriding limitations on a simple drive system would be childs play.

It's just not possible; the Codex makes it more clear.

Bioware made sure to at least tie up that loose end because the idea of crashing ships at FTL into other ships to win has been used in quite a few of the Sci Fi books I've read (Halo and Saga of Seven Suns if I recall correctly...)

[justafan]

Ultai wrote...

The fleet is only there to buy time, Hackett says a few times in the game they can't win conventionally.

They also said it was impossible to get to Ilos or go through the Omega 4 relay and survive.  

[Warden130]

Being able to defeat the Reapers conventionally = Biggest disappoint of an antagonist since General Grievous.

[AnethmA]

It's possible, but it would be a LOOOONG shot.
In my last playthrough I had well over 8000 units, and even then (due to the cutscenes only showing what races you have, not how many) the reapers were barely being touched.
A few pieces break off but they are still functional, hell it took what... 8 shots over all from a turian warship to bring down a single reaper?

Or 2 warheads from a mobile ground unit into the firing chamber.
Given that the Reapers have been doing this for likely millions of years, what we saw at earth was probably no more than 5% of their collective.
Conventional methods would more likely delay the inevitable, I don't see how the races of just one galaxy could stop the reapers when the protheans couldn't.

[Nette]

Yes, I think it could be possible. Take a look in the codex (secondary) about reaper vulnerabilities. With the right strategy it's very possible.

[Arl Raylen]

CerealWar wrote...

In ME2, it was implied that an invasion on Earth was required to finish the human reaper. If it takes billions of people to produce one reaper, how many reapers can be produced from each harvest?

Shep alone witnesses 4 reapers destroyed. The codex mentions that several capital ships are destroyed during a bold Turian attack. And one can assume that the Turians and Krogan must have at least taken out a few destroyers.

If only several reapers are produced each cycle, and more than that number are destroyed during the course of each harvest, wouldn't attrition have taken its toll on them? They've already gone through thousands of cycles.

Well they were pretty close to finishing one Human Reaper core with a couple hundred thousand people abducted. They can probably make at least 50 Capital Ships and Possibly hundreds of Destroyers per cycle.

[ZerebusPrime]

It should have been possible to conventionally defeat the Reaper fleet at Earth.

But the costs to the combined galactic florce used to do so would be such that Reaper reinforcements from everywhere else would quickly crush them.

[Baronesa]

Nette wrote...

Yes, I think it could be possible. Take a look in the codex (secondary) about reaper vulnerabilities. With the right strategy it's very possible.

I copied that entry above


Also, dont focus on the battle of Earth...

Hackett states that Earth has the biggest concentration of Reapers... ok.. then go liberate other places!!!

Let Earth burn and attack weaker targets, thin the numbers of the Reapers... a frontal assault is suicide, hit and run, guerrilla tactics are what CAN defeat the Reapers. Unlike other cycles, we have a united galaxy and MOBILITY. We can go to different sectors because this time, the Reapers can't turn off the Relays to stop reinforcements and trap the enemies on their systems.

Modifié par Baronesa, 25 mars 2012 - 12:27 .

[DarkSpiral]

justafan wrote...

Ultai wrote...

The fleet is only there to buy time, Hackett says a few times in the game they can't win conventionally.

They also said it was impossible to get to Ilos or go through the Omega 4 relay and survive.  

Neither of which have anything to do with defeating a vastly superior enemy in a strightforwrd battle.  Useless comparisson is useless.

[Clayless]

CerealWar wrote...

In ME2, it was implied that an invasion on Earth was required to finish the human reaper. If it takes billions of people to produce one reaper, how many reapers can be produced from each harvest?

Shep alone witnesses 4 reapers destroyed. The codex mentions that several capital ships are destroyed during a bold Turian attack. And one can assume that the Turians and Krogan must have at least taken out a few destroyers.

If only several reapers are produced each cycle, and more than that number are destroyed during the course of each harvest, wouldn't attrition have taken its toll on them? They've already gone through thousands of cycles.

Not billions, millions. And they can use the other races to make smaller Reapers.

And this cycle is different due to the Protheans.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If the crucible was actually the superweapon it was supposed to be without the "god child" then yes. But no. Because the writer decided to insult our intelligence we got the ending we got. Horrible. Just horrible.

[Iwillbeback]

Surely if they casted magical spelled the Reapers would of been defeated.

[Johnnycide]

sergio71785 wrote...

Thannix cannons are just smaller, weaker imitations of the Reaper's main weapon. It's like taking a gun to a gun fight, except your gun is a lot smaller and weaker. 

A .22lr may be smaller and weaker than a .44 but you hit someone in the right place they're just as dead. 

Though it seemed like a conventional win was possible if the entire fleet fired on one Reaper at a time instead of a mass volley of shoot whereever you feel like.