287 réponses à ce sujet

[Sainta117]

The clear statement made repeatedly by most of the characters is no, they can't win conventionally. The "odds" you see in your "War Assets" display are the odds of successfully delivering the crucible to it's target (although they don't really know what its supposed to do at that point, so who knows what that means anyway).

[Arl Raylen]

Johnnycide wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

Thannix cannons are just smaller, weaker imitations of the Reaper's main weapon. It's like taking a gun to a gun fight, except your gun is a lot smaller and weaker. 

A .22lr may be smaller and weaker than a .44 but you hit someone in the right place they're just as dead. 

Though it seemed like a conventional win was possible if the entire fleet fired on one Reaper at a time instead of a mass volley of shoot whereever you feel like.

The difference between the Thanix and the Reaper Main Gun is more the difference between a BB Gun and the main gun on a WWII era Fighter Plane.

It says in ME2 that the strongest Thanix Cannons are about the equivalent to Cruiser level Mass Drivers. And as we've seen Cruisers have little effect on Reapers by themselves, while they get one shot by Reapers.

[Jadebaby]

FS3D wrote...

I'd be willing to say it's possible. High enough EMS and the ending should allow a conventional win.

[Arl Raylen]

Calinstel wrote...

Arl Raylen wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Arl Raylen wrote...

You should read the Codex. All FTL cores/computational systems have inherent and unchangeable aspects of them which cannot allow a ship to be crashed into another ship or object in general. Therefore your strategy wouldn't work.

Also Thanix cannons wouldn't beat the Reapers either. It's also said in the codex that Thanix Cannons cannot be made on a large scale; meaning Cruisers and Dreadnoughts cannot equip them as their main gun. Therefore the strongest possible Thanix is seen on Frigates and they only give them the strength of a cruiser; which isn't enough to win conventionally.

An FTL core is just an eezo core with power flowing into it.  If that is used and is not coupled to any navigation, then there can be no inherent or unchangable aspects.
And even if true, moving at 99% light, still not FTL so these factors would not be involved, would do almost the same damage.  And come now.  If a Cerberus can, in just a few short months, learn to not only create but control their own husks, overriding limitations on a simple drive system would be childs play.

It's just not possible; the Codex makes it more clear.

Bioware made sure to at least tie up that loose end because the idea of crashing ships at FTL into other ships to win has been used in quite a few of the Sci Fi books I've read (Halo and Saga of Seven Suns if I recall correctly...)

So had Deus Ex devices.
That said.  A device could still be made that has both and eezo core capable of FTL as well as standard thrusters.   And, to be honest, the only thing written in stone in the codex is that it will change when BW needs it to.
EDIT*  Please link the codex you are referring too.  What I find has nothing on limitations.

You'll have to find it yourself. I have to go.

[Johnnycide]

Arl Raylen wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

Thannix cannons are just smaller, weaker imitations of the Reaper's main weapon. It's like taking a gun to a gun fight, except your gun is a lot smaller and weaker. 

A .22lr may be smaller and weaker than a .44 but you hit someone in the right place they're just as dead. 

Though it seemed like a conventional win was possible if the entire fleet fired on one Reaper at a time instead of a mass volley of shoot whereever you feel like.

The difference between the Thanix and the Reaper Main Gun is more the difference between a BB Gun and the main gun on a WWII era Fighter Plane.

It says in ME2 that the strongest Thanix Cannons are about the equivalent to Cruiser level Mass Drivers. And as we've seen Cruisers have little effect on Reapers by themselves, while they get one shot by Reapers.

I don't even recall Cruisers using their Thanix cannons during the fight. Can you maybe use modern weapon references? Still, a mass volley of BB's on one target would most likely bring it down.

[hakwea]

Of course they otherwise why would I need an effective military score, a galactic readiness level and a long list of war assets to collect? Oh wait it doesn't matter...

In the long run? Maybe not. Though they did hold out a long time while Shepard did operation hammer and talked to the child AI. I think much of their victories would have been in the short run with them eventually doing a strategic retreat when more reaper forces arrived.

[Clayless]

Johnnycide wrote...

Arl Raylen wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

Thannix cannons are just smaller, weaker imitations of the Reaper's main weapon. It's like taking a gun to a gun fight, except your gun is a lot smaller and weaker. 

A .22lr may be smaller and weaker than a .44 but you hit someone in the right place they're just as dead. 

Though it seemed like a conventional win was possible if the entire fleet fired on one Reaper at a time instead of a mass volley of shoot whereever you feel like.

The difference between the Thanix and the Reaper Main Gun is more the difference between a BB Gun and the main gun on a WWII era Fighter Plane.

It says in ME2 that the strongest Thanix Cannons are about the equivalent to Cruiser level Mass Drivers. And as we've seen Cruisers have little effect on Reapers by themselves, while they get one shot by Reapers.

I don't even recall Cruisers using their Thanix cannons during the fight. Can you maybe use modern weapon references? Still, a mass volley of BB's on one target would most likely bring it down.

As long as said target:

1. Doesn't decide to use their one shot kill weapon
2. Doesn't have tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of teammates all with one shot kill weapons
3. Doesn't have to ability to brainwash people when they get near over a period of time

[Arl Raylen]

Calinstel wrote...

Sainta117 wrote...

The clear statement made repeatedly by most of the characters is no, they can't win conventionally. The "odds" you see in your "War Assets" display are the odds of successfully delivering the crucible to it's target (although they don't really know what its supposed to do at that point, so who knows what that means anyway).

EDI herself says differently when she speaks about the Reaper being killed by a worm.

Actually here it is:

Desperate Measures data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit
Faced with utter annihilation, military planners have considered
extreme solutions in their quest to stop the Reapers. The two most
plausible are the destruction of mass relays and the use of starships as
suicide weapons.
Destroying a mass relay to stop the Reapers' advance is
infeasbile. Although it has recently been proven that mass relays can be
destroyed, a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any
terrestrial world in the relay's solar system. It would take too long to
evacuate the millions or billions of people living near each relay, and
the Council is unwilling to sacrifice that many lives when combat
stands a chance of saving them. Even if a garden world were to survive
the relay's destruction, the Reapers have infinite patience. They
traveled out of dark space using conventional FTL--travel within galaxy
is not an insurmountable barrier.
Meanwhile, starships are too costly to be used as projectiles,
given that it would take many collisions to seriously harm a Reaper.
Some armchair admirals suggest that a single starship traveling faster
than light could obliterate a Reaper capital ship, but all ships based
on mass effect technology possess hardwired safety features to prevent
FTL collisions. If a ship's FTL plotter finds a significant object in
the path of a planned jump, the FTL drive refuses to fire in the first
place. This is not a perfect safety feature--the sensors can only scan
for objects within a reasonable distance at light speed, and a navigator
must plot he rest of the course--but it is so inherent to the FTL
warm-up process that removing it is nigh impossible. Cynical
intelligence analysts note that the secret of mass effect technology,
including that safety system, has always been attributed to the
Protheans--just as the mass relays were.

[Elyiia]

There's way too many unknowns to be able to decide. Firstly, we don't know how many Destroyers and Capital ships the Reapers actually have. We also don't actually know the strength of our own fleet. If you look at the final cinematic for the space battle there's quite a few ships from certain races missing, leading me to believe that it was only Sword being shown. I don't know if it was mentioned but if it was me, the main firepower would have been defending the Crucible if we had to follow their plan.

We'd also not be fighting directly at Earth. We'd be using the majority of the fleet for strike actions against lesser Reaper forces, drawing the Reapers away from Earth.

It takes about 3-4 Dreadnoughts to take out a Reaper capital ship, but as far as I can tell we never saw a Thanix cannon fired.

There's also the fact that Reapers are largely more vulnerable when planet side, they have less shield strength.

With smart tactics, it would be possible I think.

[Arl Raylen]

http://masseffect.wi.../The_Reaper_War

[spirosz]

No, but my Shepard would rather go down fighting in what he believed in, compared to the ending we got.

Modifié par spiros9110, 25 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[H. Birdman]

Guys, it's a work of fiction. More to the point, it's a work of fiction with writers who have made it clear they don't care about following the rules they've established. So, much like the NFL, anybody can beat anybody else on any given Sunday. Just depends on what the plot requires.

[Arl Raylen]

Johnnycide wrote...

Arl Raylen wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

Thannix cannons are just smaller, weaker imitations of the Reaper's main weapon. It's like taking a gun to a gun fight, except your gun is a lot smaller and weaker. 

A .22lr may be smaller and weaker than a .44 but you hit someone in the right place they're just as dead. 

Though it seemed like a conventional win was possible if the entire fleet fired on one Reaper at a time instead of a mass volley of shoot whereever you feel like.

The difference between the Thanix and the Reaper Main Gun is more the difference between a BB Gun and the main gun on a WWII era Fighter Plane.

It says in ME2 that the strongest Thanix Cannons are about the equivalent to Cruiser level Mass Drivers. And as we've seen Cruisers have little effect on Reapers by themselves, while they get one shot by Reapers.

I don't even recall Cruisers using their Thanix cannons during the fight. Can you maybe use modern weapon references? Still, a mass volley of BB's on one target would most likely bring it down.

I'd imagine a frigate with Thanix Cannons equipped going against a Reaper Capital ship would be like a guy with an UZI 9mm going up against an M1 Abrams tank. Sure you have a chance...it's just very poor.

An organic dreadnought would be a guy with an RPG

[lillitheris]

I was kind of thinking - with franchise continuation in mind - that ME3 could have ended with an indecisive defensive victory fighting off the main reaper force, leaving the long tail of the war to be fought out in an RTS (or even *shudder* an MMO), with the RPGs picking up either amidst the war and/or long after it.

Shepard and crew could have been either dead, stranded, or otherwise out of commission (e.g. moved to strategic command rather than front lines) for the rest of the war, bringing their arcs mostly to a close.


Edit: Obviously this would have limited the canon-possible endings to ME3; synthesis wouldn't make much sense in that context.

Modifié par lillitheris, 25 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[General User]

Arl Raylen wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Sainta117 wrote...

The clear statement made repeatedly by most of the characters is no, they can't win conventionally. The "odds" you see in your "War Assets" display are the odds of successfully delivering the crucible to it's target (although they don't really know what its supposed to do at that point, so who knows what that means anyway).

EDI herself says differently when she speaks about the Reaper being killed by a worm.

Actually here it is:

Desperate Measures data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit
Faced with utter annihilation, military planners have considered
extreme solutions in their quest to stop the Reapers. The two most
plausible are the destruction of mass relays and the use of starships as
suicide weapons.
Destroying a mass relay to stop the Reapers' advance is
infeasbile. Although it has recently been proven that mass relays can be
destroyed, a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any
terrestrial world in the relay's solar system. It would take too long to
evacuate the millions or billions of people living near each relay, and
the Council is unwilling to sacrifice that many lives when combat
stands a chance of saving them. Even if a garden world were to survive
the relay's destruction, the Reapers have infinite patience. They
traveled out of dark space using conventional FTL--travel within galaxy
is not an insurmountable barrier.
Meanwhile, starships are too costly to be used as projectiles,
given that it would take many collisions to seriously harm a Reaper.
Some armchair admirals suggest that a single starship traveling faster
than light could obliterate a Reaper capital ship, but all ships based
on mass effect technology possess hardwired safety features to prevent
FTL collisions. If a ship's FTL plotter finds a significant object in
the path of a planned jump, the FTL drive refuses to fire in the first
place. This is not a perfect safety feature--the sensors can only scan
for objects within a reasonable distance at light speed, and a navigator
must plot he rest of the course--but it is so inherent to the FTL
warm-up process that removing it is nigh impossible. Cynical
intelligence analysts note that the secret of mass effect technology,
including that safety system, has always been attributed to the
Protheans--just as the mass relays were.

Can't they just spoof the sensors tied to the FTL plotter?  You know feed them false data.

[Clayless]

spiros9110 wrote...

No, but my Shepard would rather go down fighting in what he believed in, compared to the ending we got.

Too bad you doom the infinite amount of lives the galaxy would ever see due to your stupidity.

[spirosz]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

No, but my Shepard would rather go down fighting in what he believed in, compared to the ending we got.

Too bad you doom the infinite amount of lives the galaxy would ever see due to your stupidity.

Due to my stupidity? lol.

[Johnnycide]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

No, but my Shepard would rather go down fighting in what he believed in, compared to the ending we got.

Too bad you doom the infinite amount of lives the galaxy would ever see due to your stupidity.

Why would you insult someone for the ending they would choose? It may not work out, but it shouldn't invalidate their choice.

Arl Raylen wrote...

I'd imagine a frigate with Thanix Cannons equipped going against a Reaper Capital ship would be like a guy with an UZI 9mm going up against an M1 Abrams tank. Sure you have a chance...it's just very poor. 

An organic dreadnought would be a guy with an RPG

 

I was just asking for weapon to weapon comparisons. So it'd be like a 9mm fully automatic submachine gun against a tank's main cannon? 

Modifié par Johnnycide, 25 mars 2012 - 12:46 .

[GnusmasTHX]

To people who are saying it's possible because the Reapers never used the Citadel trap and divided our forces, you have to realize that even with our forces together, we're outnumbered, by a lot, in JUST dreadnought numbers. If you consider Destroyers are the equivalent of cruisers, we're probably outnumbered in that area as well. Frigates and fighters are what we have more of.

[DarkSpiral]

spiros9110 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

No, but my Shepard would rather go down fighting in what he believed in, compared to the ending we got.

Too bad you doom the infinite amount of lives the galaxy would ever see due to your stupidity.

Due to my stupidity? lol.

Pride, perhaps, is a better term.

[MassEffect762]

Yes.

That Cain took one smaller class reaper down no problem. Equip larger nukes on fighters and have them do suicide runs on the Reapers weakest points.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 25 mars 2012 - 12:46 .

[Clayless]

Johnnycide wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

No, but my Shepard would rather go down fighting in what he believed in, compared to the ending we got.

Too bad you doom the infinite amount of lives the galaxy would ever see due to your stupidity.

Why would you insult someone for the ending they would choose? It may not work out, but it shouldn't invalidate their choice.

Calling a stupid decision stupid.

Calling said person stupid.

Don't get them mixed up.

Also, letting the Reapers win WOULD invalidate their choice.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 25 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[Giantdeathrobot]

No. They were barely holding their own above Earth, and that's with high EMS, so almost every single fleet in the friggin galaxy assembled. They could destroy a few Reapers, even Capital ships (which is definitely impressive for us puny fleshbags) but conventional victory would and should have been impossible after all the hard evidence pointing out to the Reaper's crushing superiority. It took all the guns of the Migrant Fleet to bring down one Reaper destroyer, remember, and it takes 4 dreadnaughts to bring down 1 capital ship. Combined, the galaxy has, what, 20 dreadnaughts? Max 30. While for what we know there are hundreds of Reaper capital ships. Not to mention it's stated that at this rate the Citadel economy would collapse within a year. Even faster since now the Citadel would be under Reaper control.