59 réponses à ce sujet

[Saurel]

Now I wasn't one the people who fell into the camp pre-game release of thinking Chantry/Templars= evil Mages= good and oppressed.

But after the PA comic and some commentary that it accurately represented them, I was kinda expecting them to be more cold blooded. And was a bit sad at this expectation.

Have to say I was pleasantly surprised to find they are generally the most decent individuals in the game whenever you come across them. Anyone else? Or am I the only one?

[mousestalker]

 Well we know from party chatter that they like pillow fights and wearing pretty frocks.

:innocent:

[Alex Savchovsky]

Playing as a mage, I wasn't so charmed by the templars. I had some respect for the knight-commander still.

[Saurel]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Playing as a mage, I wasn't so charmed by the templars. I had some respect for the knight-commander still.

Hmm I'll have to play-through other areas as a mage. Do you  get a lot of bias outside of the circle?

[Behindyounow]

I was very disappointed with them. The way they're described makes you think ten of them will be breaking down the door as soon as you get blood magic.



What happens instead? Nothing. No repurcussions whatsoever for making a deal with a demon for forbidden magic in the slightest.

[Recidiva]

I have respect for the templars and I particularly think Cullen, Gregoir and Alistair are excellent models for what might be considered their best.



Carroll on the other hand, funny, but not their best.

[ninjafast]

The templars ripe young kids out of there homes, lock them in a tower until they undergo the harrowing, or become tranquil. The templars don't give you a choice in the matter, it's not like Hogwart's, the is no invitation, come and learn to be a mage, die or have all your emtions removed. Hardly warm and fuzzy.



In the PA comic the templars were tracking down a with of the wild, to kill her. Why? because she doesn't belong to a circle. Seems keeping character and not warm and fuzzy as well.

[Seagloom]

I came into the game without too many expectations so I wasn't shocked. I did like that they were portrayed as any other large organization. Some of them were noble and well-intended while others were shady and accepting lyrium bribes from the Mages' Collective. I think Cullen was the only fanatical templar we saw, and that was only after his experiences in the tower.

Basically, they came across as very human and IMO nobler than the Grey Wardens by a league in most cases. My first disappointment mirrors what Behindyounow wrote above: that there didn't seem to be any consequences for recklessly loosing magic or openly flaunting Blood Magic powers. This can be extended to every specialization though. I really disliked how all of them were handled from a role-playing perspective.

My second disappointment was that we didn't get to see more of their extreme side. We're told of how they treat mages and see a little of it, but don't really witness anything like say, a mage falsely accused of being a maleficar and ruthlessly killed, or some such. And no, I don't count Jowan since he *was* a Blood Mage.

Modifié par Seagloom, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:17 .

[cutieyum]

I am conflicted with the Templars and the Chantry. They have done a lot of good, yet they are one of the most horrific and oppressive institutions in Thedas.

Lyrium addiction leads the Templars to a sad end-of-life. The Chantry probably needs a lot of young initiates, just to wipe the drool of the hundreds of older/retired Templars housed at the cathedral in Orlais.

Eamon is a 'bastard' for sending a defenseless boy to the Chantry to be raised and become a Templar, knowing full well that Maric's son would become a pawn of the Chantry, addicted to lyrium and with a chastity/obidience vow on him. Duncan's rescue/conscription of Allistair is a marginally better outcome for him.

Modifié par cutieyum, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:25 .

[Curlain]

Yep, the Templars and the Chantry also don't react if you learn the Temp specilisation from Alistair, even though their anti-magic abilities are supposed to be a closely guarded secret in which the Chantry uses lyrium addiction to keep control of (and them Temps). The only one so far I've come acrossso far that has any real fallout (haven't done all the rogue specs yet so mabye there is a conquence to assassin or not yet) is the Reaver spec.

Arcane Warrior was funny in this respect as well, you learn an ability virtually lost, and no one comments on the fact that your mage can now run around in the heaviest armour, welding all weapons and spells etc, and everyone seems oblivious to that fact

Modifié par Curlain, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:25 .

[Saurel]

ninjafast wrote...


In the PA comic the templars were tracking down a with of the wild, to kill her. Why? because she doesn't belong to a circle. Seems keeping character and not warm and fuzzy as well.

And they heartlessly kill one of their own at the slightest sign of doubt. That part seemed more Grey Warden-ish.

I was speaking more of personalities of the Templars as opposed to their methods. Per se. Even though the game kinda doesn't really make them seem all that effective in terms of hunting rogues with the mage collective running around.

[MalikCaligulaBey]

Really? Cullen? I wasn't a fan at all, I was playing as a city elf and while imprisoned in the tower he advocated killing all the magi just to be sure all the blood mages/abmoinations were gone. I wasn't down with that. 

ninjafast wrote...

The templars ripe young kids out of there homes, lock them in a tower until they undergo the harrowing, or become tranquil. The templars don't give you a choice in the matter, it's not like Hogwart's, the is no invitation, come and learn to be a mage, die or have all your emtions removed. Hardly warm and fuzzy.

In the PA comic the templars were tracking down a with of the wild, to kill her. Why? because she doesn't belong to a circle. Seems keeping character and not warm and fuzzy as well.

[SonvarTheMighty]

Cullen was fine in the Mage Origin as he seemed nice and willing to be a friend. However, once you meet him in the tower later on he's too full of rage to be even reasoned with because he feels all mages are blood mages. If you do end up siding with him a mage's life becomes much more harsh and even more distrusted. Cullen seems more like what the PA comic showed.

[Valmy]

ninjafast wrote...

The templars ripe young kids out of there homes, lock them in a tower until they undergo the harrowing, or become tranquil. The templars don't give you a choice in the matter, it's not like Hogwart's, the is no invitation, come and learn to be a mage, die or have all your emtions removed. Hardly warm and fuzzy. 

And then you do the Redcliffe Castle quest and it all becomes very clear why they do this.  It is amazing the sort of havoc one child mage can wreck.

[Tristera]

What I enjoy about the templars are the probably extremely varied reasons for becoming one. It seems impossible for one to become a mage; it's something of an affliction (curse) that horrifies the nobility and creates fear in commoners. I like the idea of one templar becoming one for righteous reasons (to protect people from forces unseen) and another becoming one for corrupt ones (hatred and oppression). It's sort of like that adage about the two types of people who become police officers: those kids who wanted to stand up to bullies...and bullies.

[TuringPoint]

Templars just seem like normal people. I'm glad they're portrayed that way.



But they only know that magic "should be restricted," and little beyond that. They have a certain military enthusiasm about their job that doesn't please me.

[Kosh_Naranek]

Having played a mage up to about level 12 so far, I can definitely see why the Chantry and the Templars want to control mages...They're walking tactical nukes in stylish robes. When someone can create a three-hundred-foot tall self-sustaining FIRE TORNADO merely with the power of his mind, you want to keep an eye on them. And in a world as religious as Thedas, that translates into the major religion keeping an eye on them.

[Saurel]

SonvarTheMighty wrote...

Cullen was fine in the Mage Origin as he seemed nice and willing to be a friend. However, once you meet him in the tower later on he's too full of rage to be even reasoned with because he feels all mages are blood mages. If you do end up siding with him a mage's life becomes much more harsh and even more distrusted. Cullen seems more like what the PA comic showed.

Taking into account Cullen just saw all his comrades get slaughtered left and right, I didn't think he was right in the head at that point in time. Especially since he was relatively green (in the mage origin; he never had to put a mage down).

He could potential become what the PA comic showed. But really the PA comic leader seemed like a utter zealot without any neurosis (granted we didn't see much, but he certainly didn't seem like he was in a state of panic).

But regarding the person who mentioned Cullen,  when I speak of Templars I mean mostly of the ones you encounter on your travels. Such as Ser Bryant (lothering), Ser Otto, the guy in the dungeon, and few others here and there that had similar roles.

[ComTrav]

Most of the individual Templar you come across seem like pretty decent guys. Ser Otto, in particular, stands out, as the only human in the alienage who seems to care about what's going on there.



They do haul mage children to the tower, but Wynne gives a good perspective on this: given suspicion of mages in the world at large, this is as much for the mage's protection as it is everyone else's.

If there was no restriction at all on mages, they'd probably end up in charge. This is exactly what happened in the Tevinter Imperium. The mages in charge came to regard non-mage life as little more then fuel for magic rituals. (And, if you believe the Chantry version, this all led to storming the Golden City, leading to the darkspawn.) If you want to avoid a magocracy, there needs to be some check on the power of the mages.

The Templar are one response; the Mages Collective, where the mages police themselves (maybe they're even led by Professor Xavier), is an interesting alternative. At the other end of the extreme from Tevinter we have the Qunari way of dealing with mages, which makes the Templar look downright humane.

[The Angry One]

I'll admit one interesting thing about the templars is how the Chantry keeps them addicted to Lyrium to keep them from taking over.

Ironically the templars are on as much of a leash as the mages. Perhaps even a worse one seeing as how it drives them nuts later in life.

[Bhatair]

They're all high on Lyrium.

[ReubenLiew]

A tad dissapointed, actually. Would've liked them slightly more like how the PA comics showed them, but I'm guessing those are more zealot than the usual templars I guess.

[Saurel]

ReubenLiew wrote...

A tad dissapointed, actually. Would've liked them slightly more like how the PA comics showed them, but I'm guessing those are more zealot than the usual templars I guess.

A side quest like that would have been interesting...but I didn't encounter anything like that. I'm assuming there isn't one I got the side-tracked achievement and for some reason I think if there was such a quest they would make it easily found.

[ReubenLiew]

Yeah, the templars like the PA comic was only mentioned in stories, and even then it wasn't quite depicted like how PA did it. I kinda like the idea of zealot gaolers whose grim and dour demeanor makes them seem like some sort of machine, whose faith in the Maker never faltered and would accept death rather than retreat.



But that's just me really.

[Saurel]

Well I think the fear I had was that they were gonna completely villain-ize the Chantry and the Templars. Y'know since Organized Religion is a relatively easy target (and I'm saying this as a non-christian).

So I found it a bit refreshing they didn't resort to that. But I can see your point.

It may have been more interesting if they focused on how duty is distributed. For some reason I feel like Alistair mentioned the more zealous ones are given duties as hunters. But I may have been imagining things.

edit: a bit of "Passion of Joan of Arc" intrigue/darkness I would not have minded.

Modifié par Saurel, 01 décembre 2009 - 11:00 .