103 réponses à ce sujet

[Toalhinha]

*Spoilers not only about the game

Why an ending where Shepard lives and reunites with crew/ LI would be considered "rainbows and ponies" or a "Disney" ending?

Even if you go Full Paragon, still:

- Kaidan/Ashley died on Virmire to get the job done, and you have to live with the decision of who you left behind throughout the games.

- Mordin died on Tuchanka to make up for all the wrongs he and the Salarians did to the Krogans, a tragic death of redemption.

- Thane died on the Citadel to aid you and save the Salarian councilor, so even though he was already dying, he had to suffer a violent death instead of a natural one.

- Legion died on Rannoch to basically give his people free will and self awareness. Self-sacrifice that happens just after you and Tali acknowledge he has a soul. (to me, his death was the saddest part of the whole game)

- Joker lost his father.

- Garrus saw the very place he was born as a giant fire spot on the face of Palaven.

- Miranda had to kill her own father.

- Jack finds a place in society and then has to throw a bunch of KIDS in the line of fire to make barriers for the soldiers against a completely unknow and powerful enemy.

- Tali saw a great number of ships from the migrant fleet being destroyed and countless Quarian lives lost in the Quarian/Geth space battle.

- Grunt had his unit obliterated and almost died.

- Javik hints suicide after mission is over.

- Samara lost another daughter and had to leave the last one behind, unsafe from harm.

- Admiral Anderson dies before even seeing the crucible "firing" (well, with this ending, lucky him I guess).

- Earth burns
- Palaven burns
- Thessia burns
- Numerous colonies from various races are probably lost forever

- The Batarians are in extinction
-  The Elcor are probably in extinction too (when asked about how many civilians they were able to save, the ambassador replies "not enough")
- The Volus aren't a military race so their losses must be tremendous.

Shepard saw more death and destruction than WW I and II combined. And I don't believe those wars had a "happy" ending.

If I forgot something, please let me know.

I can't understand how surviving the near destruction of the galaxy is a "Disney" ending. It's happy? maybe, in a certain point of view, but definitely not rainbows & ponies.

It's like losing your parents in a car accident and getting a raise on the same day, and people start calling you "Lucky". That makes no sense.

Or saying that The Green Mile had a happy colorful rainbow ending just because the protagonist was cured from the infection.

Just for the record, I love bleak / dark / nihilistic endings or themes and stories tha make you think, but I like them where they belong, in context and when they are actually well built and make sense. There are good ways to make a bittersweet story/ending, this was definitely not one of them.

[Hashbeth]

Because art is cut and dry! Rainbows and Ponies or Violence and death.
Duh OP. ^ww^

[Pee Jae]

Pretty much. Yep. *nods* Nothing wrong with bad endings, but considering this series has supposedly always been about choices, how about a choice for a happy ending?

Modifié par t_skwerl, 25 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[HKR148]

http://browse.devian...effect#/d4rz25k

[Taboo]

People still don't understand that you cannot have a happy ending when billions and billions of people are dead.

How is this so hard to understand?

Did World War II have a happy ending because some people made it out alive?

NO.

[tempAE0F]

Yep, you can have either. I mean, Mass Effect 2 allowed you to do the end mission perfectly, lose some but finish it out, loss most and then die.

There's no reason why we shouldn't have the same approach available in this game. The limitation seems so arbitrary.

[tempAE0F]

Taboo-XX wrote...

People still don't understand that you cannot have a happy ending when billions and billions of people are dead.

How is this so hard to understand?

Did World War II have a happy ending because some people made it out alive?

NO.

Uh, actually it did.

The war was horrible and what happened was bad, but those people who survived and moved on certainly had a happy ending.

And last I checked, billions dying in a war doesn't mean that Shepard has to die under all circumstances. What kind of logic is that?

[Toalhinha]

HKR148 wrote...

http://browse.devian...effect#/d4rz25k

That would actually be a better ending than the one we got -.-

[Taboo]

tempAE0F wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

People still don't understand that you cannot have a happy ending when billions and billions of people are dead.

How is this so hard to understand?

Did World War II have a happy ending because some people made it out alive?

NO.

Uh, actually it did.

The war was horrible and what happened was bad, but those people who survived and moved on certainly had a happy ending.

And last I checked, billions dying in a war doesn't mean that Shepard has to die under all circumstances. What kind of logic is that?

Dude I was being sarcastic. Seriously. I'm referring to bittersweet endings.

[nevar00]

Why an ending where Shepard lives and reunites with crew/ LI would be considered "rainbows and ponies" or a "Disney" ending?

Because people are stupid.

Modifié par nevar00, 25 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[Taboo]

nevar00 wrote...

Because people are stupid.

[Esoretal]

This exactly. The galaxy would already be in ruins, even if we won against the Reapers. Everyone lost something, everyone will be burying someone. Not exactly a sunshine and fluffy bunnies business.

Modifié par Esoretal, 25 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[yukon fire]

After ME3 I feel like the only time they didn't "go for the throat" is they didn't kill shep's mom, not that it mattered but still way to draw the line Bioware.

[raizathestorm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

People still don't understand that you cannot have a happy ending when billions and billions of people are dead.

How is this so hard to understand?

Did World War II have a happy ending because some people made it out alive?

NO.

In terms of dark themes and doom 'n gloom, Mass Effect as a franchise has NOTHING on Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne. if one of Nocturne's... six endings? seven? if one of those can be a happy one, I don't see why one can't fit into Mass Effect's narrative.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

Good point OP I think this hits it on the head perfectly.

[Toalhinha]

tempAE0F wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

People still don't understand that you cannot have a happy ending when billions and billions of people are dead.

How is this so hard to understand?

Did World War II have a happy ending because some people made it out alive?

NO.

Uh, actually it did.

The war was horrible and what happened was bad, but those people who survived and moved on certainly had a happy ending.

And last I checked, billions dying in a war doesn't mean that Shepard has to die under all circumstances. What kind of logic is that?

Man, the wars didn't have a happy ending, there's nothing happy about wars. People suffer PTDs, loses family members, homes, identities, even sense of right and wrong, and live with the memories of war for their whole lives. That's not a happy ending, that's a better ending than dying, and it doesn't stop you from being happy AFTER , but the ending itself isnt happy. There are people who overcome, and people who don't.

[babelcarlota]

Where are my rainbows and ponies!? You tricked me!

[Esoretal]

yukon fire wrote...

After ME3 I feel like the only time they didn't "go for the throat" is they didn't kill shep's mom, not that it mattered but still way to draw the line Bioware.

My Shepard doesn't even have a mom, she's an orphan.

Modifié par Esoretal, 25 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[Taboo]

Toalhinha wrote...

tempAE0F wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

People still don't understand that you cannot have a happy ending when billions and billions of people are dead.

How is this so hard to understand?

Did World War II have a happy ending because some people made it out alive?

NO.

Uh, actually it did.

The war was horrible and what happened was bad, but those people who survived and moved on certainly had a happy ending.

And last I checked, billions dying in a war doesn't mean that Shepard has to die under all circumstances. What kind of logic is that?

Man, the wars didn't have a happy ending, there's nothing happy about wars. People suffer PTDs, loses family members, homes, identities, even sense of right and wrong, and live with the memories of war for their whole lives. That's not a happy ending, that's a better ending than dying, and it doesn't stop you from being happy AFTER , but the ending itself isnt happy. There are people who overcome, and people who don't.

There are no victors in war, only victims of people who believe they are right. That's what war is.

[Ares14916]

* initiate sarcastic straw-man mode *

TRUE ART IS ANGSTY!!!!!!!!

And if you don't agree you are a ***ing philistine who doesn't know how reality REALLY AND SHOULD work!!!!

*end straw man mode*

Seriously though...the above...any modicum of happiness/positive emotion from the outcome somehow renders things == disney in the eyes of the modern hipster artistic nihilist. Apparently this IS a thing nowadays. See famous sci-fi writer complaint:

http://www.smithsoni...essimistic.html 

Modifié par Ares14916, 25 mars 2012 - 02:41 .

[yukon fire]

Esoretal wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

After ME3 I feel like the only time they didn't "go for the throat" is they didn't kill shep's mom, not that it mattered but still way to draw the line Bioware.

My Shepard doesn't even have a mom, she's an orphan.

True enough but I find it odd that they have hackett distinctly mention that she is alive at least before the final battle.

[sistersafetypin]

Hashbeth wrote...

Because art is cut and dry! Rainbows and Ponies or Violence and death.
Duh OP. ^ww^

And wouldn't Rainbows describe the current ending, anyway?

[Ares14916]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Hashbeth wrote...

Because art is cut and dry! Rainbows and Ponies or Violence and death.
Duh OP. ^ww^

And wouldn't Rainbows describe the current ending, anyway?

A rainbow has more than 3 colors...and rainbows make sense...

[Taboo]

Sometimes they even have double rainbows.

Twice the fun!

[thehomeworld]

I agree OP but now adays the trend is hero dying is uber cool he can't be happy. Even if shep + LI live together they've lost tons already no one's throwing a party.

Also you forgot the Hanar you can make them extinct too.