226 réponses à ce sujet

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

man I hope not, Bioware have made some of my favorite games.

I'd like them to finish the ending, and make a decent DA3

[Brightside8]

gmboy902 wrote...
-snip-

For example, KOTOR. First one was great. Second one had gameplay improvements, but the story just kind of flatlined. They dropped that series, until the MMO came out which I've heard is half-decent. Can't comment too much on this, though.

-snip-

Kotor II wasn't Bioware, just tossing that in there.
It was handed off to Black Isle because Bioware wanted to move onto original titles. Black Isle just cobbled a game together to sell based on the name. If I recall correctly, they weren't allowed to play KOTOR while writing the first draft of the script, and it was, as one writer put it "really terrible".

So yeah.

[cuzsal]

[Archereon]

Brightside8 wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...
-snip-

For example, KOTOR. First one was great. Second one had gameplay improvements, but the story just kind of flatlined. They dropped that series, until the MMO came out which I've heard is half-decent. Can't comment too much on this, though.

-snip-

Kotor II wasn't Bioware, just tossing that in there.
It was handed off to Black Isle because Bioware wanted to move onto original titles. Black Isle just cobbled a game together to sell based on the name. If I recall correctly, they weren't allowed to play KOTOR while writing the first draft of the script, and it was, as one writer put it "really terrible".

So yeah.

Black Isles was one of the most respected RPG devs back in the day. Lucas Arts gave them a positively retarded deadline, and we ended up with a half-finished product.

[Narsilsword]

The ending was bad but it never upset me. The various and unobtainable pre order bonuses and splintering of content really frustrated me as a consumer.

[MrFob]

Well, given that you put all drama aside, this was pretty dramatic mate .
I'll wait and see how this all plays out. Tan I'll make my judgement.
That said, the waiting is killing me, get on with it BW, we need answers, REAL answers!

[Wolven_Soul]

gmboy902 wrote...

Americ4nPunk wrote...

What if they succeed with Dragon Age 3 and go beyond the stars to create the fated Baldur's Gate 3? Who am I kidding, even I doubt it. The CRPG genre is dwindling down in quality because it costs more money to make a single cut scene than write a giant non voiced script with different permutations on endings, choices, etc.

Haven't played Baldur's Gate games, so I can't comment on that. But I don't see DA 3 making a comeback. Let's face it, when stuff like this happens - when games just lose what they had - it usually doesn't come back. Especially with EA, who is bent on marketing to the masses, which like you said means more cinematics, more flashy effects, and less substance.

For example, Mass Effect. All three games (yep, even 3) are good, but the first one and first one alone had a feeling of discovery and a much less "look at us blowing sh*t up" feel. The story and the music and the setting and missions all fit together, and the galaxy was invigoratingly fresh for a sci-fi game.

For example, KOTOR. First one was great. Second one had gameplay improvements, but the story just kind of flatlined. They dropped that series, until the MMO came out which I've heard is half-decent. Can't comment too much on this, though.

For example, Call of Duty. It eventually just hit a point where the game stopped developing entirely. Modern Warfare 1.3 is all I have to offer for that.

Assassin's Creed seems to be following stuff like this. Better gameplay, sure, but the story just gets worse each game.

My point is, while it is perfectly possible to continue a great series/elements of a series (Zelda, for example), it is not easy to redeem a lost one (the only example I've seen of this is Halo, which just went garbage with ODST/Halo Wars and came back with Reach). Especially if EA is calling your shots. I predict DA3 to be a highly combat-centric, but simplified game with flashy effects, liberal use of CGI, and a decent story.

It's hard to be surprised with them losing a lot of their best writers..  I really hope that your wrong with DA 3.  I really, really want that to be a great game, and there is a lot of potential to make it one.  Your right though about EA.  They are just a virus.
 
Is anyone else starting to think that the world catching up to gaming is actually a bad thing?  It just seems that with all these giant corporations realizing that they can make so much money off of games, grabbing up developers...that it is starting to lessen the quality of games.

Maybe we were better off being under the radar and everyone thinking we were nerds and geeks.

[leapingmonkeys]

Bioware can still pull ME3 out of the fire. They just have to drop the posturing and the obvious internal political battles and focus on what every successful business focuses on - the customer. Even with this fiasco, Bioware is lucky to have such a good customer base. They are upset with ME3, and rightful so I believe. But they have not walked (at least, not yet). They are telling Bioware very clearly what they expect for the product and they are giving Bioware time to go back and correct the problems. What more could a business ask of its customers?

Though Bioware needs to understand that a DLC that provides "answers and closure" is not what the customers want - they want an ending that  provides an opportunity for Shepard to win and they want their previous decisions to actually make a tangible difference in the game play.  They want Shepard to have a chance to win, see what  happened to all the various NPCs and settle down with their LI.  Bioware really needs to acknowledge that requirement from the customer base.

This is Bioware's oppty to win or lose. They can drop the pretense and ego and politics and give the customers what they want. Or they can continue as they have been doing, and lose.

The ball is in Bioware's court.

Modifié par leapingmonkeys, 25 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[paxxton]

Mass Effect 3 is a great game overall but the technical issues and strange design decisions make it hard to play sometimes. This shows up especially in side quests (the journal is a mess). The story is decent - just the presentation lacks in some key places. I noticed that there is too much auto-dialogue where the player would expect the game to offer choice (even if that doesn't change the final outcome). Instead it flows uninterrupted and as Harbinger said "It hurts you!". It's like if Bioware just wanted the series to finally finish.

Modifié par paxxton, 25 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[Hanabii]

This thread is basically a Dramafest building up, waiting to blow at the first troll.

Truth be told, I don't think Bioware is even CLOSE to dead yet.

Companies don't die when EVERYTHING they make, including their 'failed' games make more then their invested interest.

Hell, if I design a game or a story and it 'bombs' the way ME3 'Bombed' then I'll be rolling in cash and fans all the way to part two, three, four, five and six.

Modifié par Hanabii, 25 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[DeadLetterBox]

I don't think BioWare is necessarily done. They can't continue along the DA2- ME3 line though.

[nikki191]

i tend to agree with the otiginal poster there. even if they remain in business for years to come their lifespan is over for me

[WizenSlinky0]

I miss Drew. And that's not meant as an attack against the writers still on board. There's talent there. But Drew consistently wrote stories that appealed to me. With him in control of the story I could almost guarantee I'd like what I received.

[Kenta Shuuichi]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Kenta Shuuichi wrote...

Lets not be fatalistic here. They have made a mistake, but they can get on the right track again. Im sure of it and Im relatively new (my first Bio game was NWN).

My point: While DA2 was not as good as the first, It was still awesome and I was able to BE the character. I valued that and I found the characters enticing. Sure there were mistakes, but not grisly ones.

Now, Mass Effect 3 was an exercise in awesomeness up to the final part. Sure, the ending is, for lack of a better word, a huge dissapointment, but I still find it very hard to believe that it is the definitive ending, so I would not lose hope until all is lost. That's how I am. Im not throwing the towel just yet.

So please, Bioware, dont make us do. I refuse to say goodbye to you. Im not yet prepared. Dont try to force me.

Really? Everything but the endings were awesome? Even the forced canon Shepard in rpg mode? The linear dialogue? The lack of dialogue control? The lack of dialogue choice? The zaeed dialogue everywhere? I could go on.

-Polite

Well, I played with an imported character, so I do not know how the "canon Shepard" was. I am talking from my experience, which I am aware is limited, I did not play the games with different characters, or started a new character right out of the bat. What I say is that all if not most of my decisions were respected and addressed in a satisfactory way, and the storyline was completely enjoyable up to the ending, which was incredibly disheartening.

Even then, it is a possibility that all the points you have mentioned were there not to alienate "new players" who only want to play the 3rd game and still have everything. I know I would not have given them much thought because I am aware that this game is for those of us who have played the saga from the beginning, but I understand that things must be somewhat similar even if there are some key differences.  I can reach that compromise.  Is the ending what REALLY bothers me.

I beg you will excuse me if you differ, but please, I would want to be informed. If you were so kind as to explain me why you disliked what you mentioned or detail me at least what happened, and what changed, rest assured that I would read it.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Hanabii wrote...

This thread is basically a Dramafest building up, waiting to blow at the first troll.

Truth be told, I don't think Bioware is even CLOSE to dead yet.

Companies don't die when EVERYTHING they make, including their 'failed' games make more then their invested interest.

Hell, if I design a game or a story and it 'bombs' the way ME3 'Bombed' then I'll be rolling in cash and fans all the way to part two, three, four, five and six.

They do when theyre owned by EA. although since bioware isn't a company anymore but a label, maybe it won't be as bad for them. But if this was any other studio acquired by ea, they'd be closed and the remaining members reallocated to different projects.

-Polite

[Brightside8]

Hanabii wrote...

This thread is basically a Dramafest building up, waiting to blow at the first troll.

Truth be told, I don't think Bioware is even CLOSE to dead yet.

Companies don't die when EVERYTHING they make, including their 'failed' games make more then their invested interest.

Hell, if I design a game or a story and it 'bombs' the way ME3 'Bombed' then I'll be rolling in cash and fans all the way to part two, three, four, five and six.

I'm talking more about creative lifespan than existence as a company.

Bioware as a corporate entity will exist for years, but it won't be the fresh, artistic studio that produced Baldur's Gate and KOTOR.

The majority of the original staff; artists, writers, devs, etc, are already gone.

It's not fatalistic or dramatic to say so, it's just fact.
Bioware had a great run. It's over, with a lot to show for it.

[ed87]

I guess this is what happens when you sell out to EA

[xxskyshadowxx]

Torga_DW wrote...

I think the problem is the original team has/is left. Now we've got people who think they automatically deserve the reputation for quality the original team worked so hard to establish.

Yeah....they are like Squaresoft (SqEnix) now.

[Aleriah]

I really enjoyed ME3 until like so many others, the ending. It felt rushed, and lacked the closure of a the trilogy. So many what happen to X, and Y. In a series where all of our choices we've made in the past meant something, this time were bundled up and fit into basically 1 ending with differences between that are very laughable.

It will be a very sad day that Bioware stops making games, I've enjoyed them since Baldur's Gate. I think getting into bed with EA was probably the worst thing that could of happened to the company for the fans. Big monstrous companies only care about one thing, making money. When Bioware first broke out into the gaming world I think all they cared about was making great games. Now they answer to EA and have to make good games as fast as they can.

[mulwin444]

"Drama aside, Bioware has hit the end of its lifespan"

Haha...no

[Americ4nPunk]

gmboy902 wrote...

Americ4nPunk wrote...

What if they succeed with Dragon Age 3 and go beyond the stars to create the fated Baldur's Gate 3? Who am I kidding, even I doubt it. The CRPG genre is dwindling down in quality because it costs more money to make a single cut scene than write a giant non voiced script with different permutations on endings, choices, etc.

Haven't played Baldur's Gate games, so I can't comment on that. But I don't see DA 3 making a comeback. Let's face it, when stuff like this happens - when games just lose what they had - it usually doesn't come back. Especially with EA, who is bent on marketing to the masses, which like you said means more cinematics, more flashy effects, and less substance.

For example, Mass Effect. All three games (yep, even 3) are good, but the first one and first one alone had a feeling of discovery and a much less "look at us blowing sh*t up" feel. The story and the music and the setting and missions all fit together, and the galaxy was invigoratingly fresh for a sci-fi game.

For example, KOTOR. First one was great. Second one had gameplay improvements, but the story just kind of flatlined. They dropped that series, until the MMO came out which I've heard is half-decent. Can't comment too much on this, though.

For example, Call of Duty. It eventually just hit a point where the game stopped developing entirely. Modern Warfare 1.3 is all I have to offer for that.

Assassin's Creed seems to be following stuff like this. Better gameplay, sure, but the story just gets worse each game.

My point is, while it is perfectly possible to continue a great series/elements of a series (Zelda, for example), it is not easy to redeem a lost one (the only example I've seen of this is Halo, which just went garbage with ODST/Halo Wars and came back with Reach). Especially if EA is calling your shots. I predict DA3 to be a highly combat-centric, but simplified game with flashy effects, liberal use of CGI, and a decent story.

Umm sorry but either I misinterpreted what you wrote, or you misinterpreted what I wrote. If it's the former, my bad I'm saying DA3 ain't making a comeback. Obviously Bioware didn't grasp that people don't want to be rail roaded around after DA2

Modifié par Americ4nPunk, 25 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[Thornne]

Possibly. The last few releases don't seem up to earlier standards. But there's no reason they can't turn it around if they really want to.

But if they just want to shovel out crappy games as cheaply as possible, then yeah, it's over I guess.

[Voidster]

Ive had a...change of perspective lately. I dont like the ending, never have. I doubt anything short of them completely rewriting the ending will make me happy. However, if i get a form of closure, ill be content with ME3.

Nearly three weeks after its release and ...im just tired of the stress. Might sound crazy but im ready for them just to do whatever it is they plan to do so I can move on. Yes the endings...are confusing, fall short of the epic choices etc etc...*sigh* I have no idea what the future will be for the series, i hope it doesnt die off here. Id miss seeing the Asari dancers. (hahah sorry had to)

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Kenta Suuichi - I imported as well. Since me1. What I refer to as forced canon is bioware making Shepard into a specific character despite what you've established over the last two games. In me3 you don't get to roleplay Shepard as in me1/2. He does/says his own thing, and this is in rpg mode where we're supposed to have "full decisions" in conversations. Shepard has become canon in me3, and not just with action mode, but rpg mode, with imports, as well. The only time the dialogue wheel comes up is to make a plot choice, or to express if you're happy or sad. That's it. Whereas in previous games the dialogue wheel was used for not only plot choices, but to interact with the crew on a more personal and interactive level. For example, Jack and Jacob. You could choose to be friends with them or not in Me2. But despite your choice, in me3 through forced canon Shepard is BFFs with Jack and Jacob.

Let's look at Conrad Verner. Unless there was a missing portion online, the video I saw which was in rpg mode had absolutely no dialogue control in the conversations with him. It was 100% automatic, linear. Canon Shepard just acted on their own. There are many examples in me3 where this has taken place. This to me is worse than the endings because they significantly watered down a mechanic which worked quite well and was essential to the mass effect experience. Now in an effort make it a blockbuster movie, they take player control of Shepard away unless it's a plot choice.
You could roleplay Adam Jensen more than ME3's Shepard, and that's sad because Jensen is more predefined than shep.



-Polite

[Hunter_Wolf]

Americ4nPunk wrote...

What if they succeed with Dragon Age 3 and go beyond the stars to create the fated Baldur's Gate 3? Who am I kidding, even I doubt it. The CRPG genre is dwindling down in quality because it costs more money to make a single cut scene than write a giant non voiced script with different permutations on endings, choices, etc.

It's a pointless argument. We'll never know whether an individual lives up to their word because they'll either be gone or they'll make up excuses. That's the only way you can surely tell someone was true to their word, that you never see or hear from them again. 

9 out of 10 times people who make claims double back down. So even in the event DA3 is great, those who said they'll never return - end up coming back anyways.