226 réponses à ce sujet

[RedShft]

"Drama Aside", That really must have been a sarcastic title.

[sergeym1990]

Well i don't think things are that bad. While the ending was a disaster, there are still tons of awesome moments in ME3.

[Melancholic]

We're now all agreeing to this? I thought the popular opinion was 95% of the game is great?

[FemmeShep]

RedShft wrote...

"Drama Aside", That really must have been a sarcastic title.

Hah, nice one. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 25 mars 2012 - 06:12 .

[somewherenoplace]

I'm sure it's been said, but you can't forget Jade Empire.

[FemmeShep]

Melancholic wrote...

We're now all agreeing to this? I thought the popular opinion was 95% of the game is great?

I felt that way on my first play through. But after playing the game a 2nd time, I really started to notice a lot  of the flaws in ME3. There is just something very streamlined and a real lack of depth with ME3's world, that ME1 and 2 didn't have an issue with. In fact, almost every game since DA2 has feels like it has a similiar watered down forumla.

I think ME3 really does deliver on big story moments, but it feels hollow in the grand scheme of the game. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 25 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[Darthbill52]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@Kenta Shuuichi - Yep. I totally agree with everything you said. It's somewhat tolerable, what can we do at this point, to play as paragon, but I feel bad for renegade or neutral players.

-Polite

As one who's decision as shepard does kinda tread to the Chaotic Good range.  I'll save the space puppies but i am not adverse to throwing mercs out windows, destroying the council and shooting human council members and crazy indocrinated father of a "WINNING" actor.  My shepard toes the line ..it did feel sickening to play more of a goodie goodie than usual.  

[Skyblade012]

Melancholic wrote...

We're now all agreeing to this? I thought the popular opinion was 95% of the game is great?

I'd say more like 75%.

Side quests are not as good as previous entries.  You get less choices, less impact, less character development, and less actual sidequests.

The technical issues have only increased since ME2.  Why does the Journal now not track things?  Why don't faces import correctly?  Why do characters still use guns they aren't carrying (seriously, why am I using an Avenger, a weapon I hated and never carried, since the first time I could drop it, when I have a Mattock stuck to my shoulder)?  Why does the Journal not default to my open frelling quests?  Why does my Shepard freeze if you stand in the right spot at the bridge?  Why are there no discoverable codex entries?

It's still a good game, but it's not as brilliant as it should have been.

[Imp of the Perverse]

They consistently provide amazing games and seem to be able to learn from their mistakes. Mass Effect 2 improved upon Mass Effect 1 in terms of gameplay, visuals, and characters. Mass Effect 3 managed to improve upon Mass Effect 2 in a lot of areas, offered some of the greatest dramatic scenarios I've encountered, and entirely avoided any of the shortcomings of Dragon Age 2. Even Dragon Age 2 had some notable improvements over Dragon Age: Origins (more balanced combat and a more streamlined interface.) The ambiguous ending is Mass Effect 3's only failing that I can think of, which basically boils down to a single poorly received decision. One they're sure to learn from (and possibly even rectify.)

[jkflipflopDAO]

MercenaryNo wrote...

Atleast I can still look forward to Bethesda.

Indeed. Skyrim is incredible and with the workshop thing it's just over the top awesome. Plus we have the expansion packs for skyrim and then fallout 4 coming. 

Bethesda knows how to do DLC right. Yeah, they came up with horse armor, but look at Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine - those were some pretty meaty DLC. All the DLC for Fallout 3 was excellent value for the price (including the one THAT CHANGED THE ENDING TO CLOSE GLARING PLOTHOLES).

BioWare did good with some DLC, some of it has been kinda bad. Witch Hunt sticks out as particularly bad for the same reason ME3's ending sucks. We were promised answers to our burning questions, but all we got was a little tease and no answers at all.

We STILL haven't heard about Morrigan and OGB. 

[Hunter_Wolf]

MercenaryNo wrote...

Atleast I can still look forward to Bethesda.

The day Bethesda learns how to make good interactive stories is the day Bioware will have something to worry about. It is kind of sad, the two have so much they could learn from one another.

[Kanner]

*ahem* Yeah, it would be nice if Bioware remembered to make an interactive story, instead of... whatever that was.

[GuardianAngel470]

I'm not going to say that the end of Bioware isn't nigh, but there's a problem with your premise.

As you yourself said, Bioware's original team is basically no longer at Bioware. It is possible that this means that Bioware no longer has the personnel necessary to create the same quality but you seem to have forgotten that this fact also invalidates comparisons to individual artists.

It is absolutely true that artists burn out eventually. They lose the drive to create and end up simply going through the motions. However if you create a situation where burnt out artists are replaced, it is possible to avoid this situation (given the replacements meet or exceed the current level of talent).

While many people have left Bioware, it doesn't necessarily mean they have been replaced by artists of lower quality. Remember that most of Mass Effect 3 was great so obviously they still have people that can create excellent content.

What seems to have happened is those people weren't applied to the ending.

[FemmeShep]

games.on.net/article/15190/RPG_on_Rails_Mass_Effect_3_and_the_Illusion_of_Choice

This article explains a little better what I was trying to say about ME3 feeling streamlined and lacking depth to the world. 
This is a problem that DA2 had as well. It felt "on the rails". 

[JerusPI]

Bleachrude wrote...

I always find it amusing that people like the "story" about ME1 yet also love "the exploration" stuff...

I never understood how it was a "race against time" to stop Saren, yet you could casually go exploring...

Is the mission to stop Saren important or not?

[Brightside8]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I'm not going to say that the end of Bioware isn't nigh, but there's a problem with your premise.

As you yourself said, Bioware's original team is basically no longer at Bioware. It is possible that this means that Bioware no longer has the personnel necessary to create the same quality but you seem to have forgotten that this fact also invalidates comparisons to individual artists.

It is absolutely true that artists burn out eventually. They lose the drive to create and end up simply going through the motions. However if you create a situation where burnt out artists are replaced, it is possible to avoid this situation (given the replacements meet or exceed the current level of talent).

While many people have left Bioware, it doesn't necessarily mean they have been replaced by artists of lower quality. Remember that most of Mass Effect 3 was great so obviously they still have people that can create excellent content.

What seems to have happened is those people weren't applied to the ending.

No, the artists won't necessarily be lower quality, but they won't be invested in the work the same way. They might really get into it, and put in 16 hours a day on an endless coffee binge, or they might just do the work they're hired to do and think nothing of it, because they didn't come up with the material in the game, so they aren't as concerned about where it goes. 

The original team was there because they all shared a passion for making games and telling stories. That's how most of these studios start. 

The new team was hired to fill chairs. I can't say about they're talent, but they probably won't be as emotionally invested in their work. There's nothing unique here, this is just the cycle producers of art/entertainment follow. They can't last forever.

Modifié par Brightside8, 25 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[DnVill]

I wont be buying anymore DA series game after DA2.

Never thought I'd say this but the same goes for Mass Effect. sigh...

[Brightside8]

DnVill wrote...

I wont be buying anymore DA series game after DA2.

Never thought I'd say this but the same goes for Mass Effect. sigh...

No need to be so certain.
If they somehow turn it around, and make a 10/10, masterpiece of storytelling with DA3, I will buy it in a heartbeat.
Best to just keep a cautious eye out. You never know.

[Aurica]

I have to agree with OP here. There are alot of games that I enjoyed not just from BW but from other publishers. But the moment EA acquires them... the quality goes down the drain. Now its just quantity. A whole bunch of expensive DLC or expansions that don't really add much to the gaming experience.

For me its a done deal as well. I might still buy products from them... but I would be VERY careful and even then wait for the price to come down.

[pavi132]

Brightside8 wrote...

The simple fact is that Bioware is at the end of it's creative life span.

The original passion and fire for art and artistic integrity can't last forever, and it's fading from Bioware. It shows.
So as painful as it is, this is goodbye, Bioware.

I'm not being fatalistic, but a wonderful, passionate, artistic studio can only exist for so long before it burns itself out. We've had two decades of *incredible* games, for which I thank you, but you've all burned yourselves out on creativity, and now it's just a job.

Thanks for the Baldur's Gate series.
Thanks for Never Winter Nights.
Thanks for Knights of the Old Republic
Thanks for Mass Effect 1
Thanks for Dragon Age: Origins
Thanks for Mass Effect 2

You've stocked my shelves with memorable games for two decades, games I will replay for years. I will watch the credits roll by again and thank every name there.

So goodbye, and goodluck in your careers.

P.S. I know he's not with Bioware anymore, but a very, very special thanks and lots of fan love to Drew Karpshyn, one of the best writers the industry has ever seen, and responsible for the moving stories and characters behind four of my favorite games of all time. Thank you Drew, I'll be watching for your new novels, and hope you get the time to write something original.

Edit for clarification:
I doubt Bioware will cease to exist as a label, but they have hit the end of their creative lifespan, or so it seems. Most of the original staff is gone, including their best writers, and they've been tethered to a larger corporate entity with deadlines and a bottom line. There's nothing bad or good about that. They'll probably keep making decent but not great games for a while.

Well, here's to looking for the next Bioware
Cheers, folks.

Not sure about calling it all art, but I know what you are saying and what you mean. Their other games seem to just have much more effort put into them and better writing and storytelling. Now, it seems that has gone to make room for better action and combat mechanics, which are great but why should one suffer to make room for the other? It's a sad realization, but one that seems to be true. It seems that many great companies go this route.

[Flashflame58]

gmboy902 wrote...

yEAh that about sums it up.

icwatudidthar

[Icetea07]

Here is what happened. A bunch of very talanted creative artists came together to make something memorable. The original Bioware crew. Some leave and then are replaced by others who also have passion. At some point along this turnover they are bought out by somone only interested in money (EA). This is were the important turnover happens. Whereas before the buyout it was the small writers, now the leaders are trying to create very artistis products, and the money makers are saying no, we own you so you will do what we want. The heads of the original company disagree and say screw you we quit. Without the leaders the rest of the artists are left to try and make it but fall under the pressure of the money makers. When this happens the company as it was orignally meant to be fail to exist. Yes the name still exists but what it becomes is nothing more than a shell of itself. It happens all the time. Sadly it has happened to bioware.

[Darthbill52]

FemmeShep wrote...

games.on.net/article/15190/RPG_on_Rails_Mass_Effect_3_and_the_Illusion_of_Choice

This article explains a little better what I was trying to say about ME3 feeling streamlined and lacking depth to the world. 
This is a problem that DA2 had as well. It felt "on the rails". 

Its a good article and I agree with it.  I am going through a second playthrough now and it feels more like a movie than an rpg even in rpg mode, if you can figure that our your good.   It makes a good point, like chasting Vega for crashing the shuttle. I would have picked the option ..ok man you were reckless but you stopped cerberus from taking off.  I am buying the minute we get somewhere with a bar. 

Also I was hoping for some interaction or a cut scene at the poker table...nada. Why install a poker table on the normandy if your not going to use it.  My shepard would be the type of captain to play cards with his crew, I am a Kirk captain ..not a picard. I enjoy interaction not sipping earl grey tea in my cabin ..alone. 

[ObserverStatus]

Brightside8 wrote...

The simple fact is that Bioware is at the end of it's creative life span.

The original passion and fire for art and artistic integrity can't last forever, and it's fading from Bioware. It shows.
So as painful as it is, this is goodbye, Bioware.

I'm not being fatalistic, but a wonderful, passionate, artistic studio can only exist for so long before it burns itself out. We've had two decades of *incredible* games, for which I thank you, but you've all burned yourselves out on creativity, and now it's just a job.

Thanks for the Baldur's Gate series.
Thanks for Never Winter Nights.
Thanks for Knights of the Old Republic
Thanks for Mass Effect 1
Thanks for Dragon Age: Origins
Thanks for Mass Effect 2

You've stocked my shelves with memorable games for two decades, games I will replay for years. I will watch the credits roll by again and thank every name there.

So goodbye, and goodluck in your careers.

P.S. I know he's not with Bioware anymore, but a very, very special thanks and lots of fan love to Drew Karpshyn, one of the best writers the industry has ever seen, and responsible for the moving stories and characters behind four of my favorite games of all time. Thank you Drew, I'll be watching for your new novels, and hope you get the time to write something original.

Edit for clarification:
I doubt Bioware will cease to exist as a label, but they have hit the end of their creative lifespan, or so it seems. Most of the original staff is gone, including their best writers, and they've been tethered to a larger corporate entity with deadlines and a bottom line. There's nothing bad or good about that. They'll probably keep making decent but not great games for a while.

Well, here's to looking for the next Bioware
Cheers, folks.

Why is it that I can't read this post without picturing the author in a suit standing in front of a chalkboard crying? Drama aside, this sounds like the kind of theory Glenn Beck would think up.

Modifié par bobobo878, 25 mars 2012 - 06:48 .