226 réponses à ce sujet

[Hsuzy1987]

Luc0s wrote...

Simzyy wrote...

This post is ridiculous...honestly, such an overreaction

I do sense a speck of truth in the OP's overaction. I think he does make a valid point here. Sometimes old talent has to make way for new talent. This is exactly what's happening now. BioWare will slowly make way for The CD Projekt and hopefully many other new talented developers.

old talent making way for new talent isn't necessarily a bad thing. But if all the new talent has going for them is the reputation of the old, then, well...

Bioware will continue to exist by virtue of also being responsible for SWTOR, since they'll need to keep putting out products. I'm just not convinced they can put out SP RPGs of the calibre of those that came before.

I'm desperately hoping to be proven wrong though.

[Hsuzy1987]

tschamp wrote...

Brightside8 wrote...

The simple fact is that Bioware is at the end of it's creative life span.

The original passion and fire for art and artistic integrity can't last forever, and it's fading from Bioware. It shows.
So as painful as it is, this is goodbye, Bioware.

I'm not being fatalistic, but a wonderful, passionate, artistic studio can only exist for so long before it burns itself out. We've had two decades of *incredible* games, for which I thank you, but you've all burned yourselves out on creativity, and now it's just a job.

Thanks for the Baldur's Gate series.
Thanks for Never Winter Nights.
Thanks for Knights of the Old Republic
Thanks for Mass Effect 1
Thanks for Dragon Age: Origins
Thanks for Mass Effect 2

You've stocked my shelves with memorable games for two decades, games I will replay for years. I will watch the credits roll by again and thank every name there.

So goodbye, and goodluck in your careers.

P.S. I know he's not with Bioware anymore, but a very, very special thanks and lots of fan love to Drew Karpshyn, one of the best writers the industry has ever seen, and responsible for the moving stories and characters behind four of my favorite games of all time. Thank you Drew, I'll be watching for your new novels, and hope you get the time to write something original.

Edit for clarification:
I doubt Bioware will cease to exist as a label, but they have hit the end of their creative lifespan, or so it seems. Most of the original staff is gone, including their best writers, and they've been tethered to a larger corporate entity with deadlines and a bottom line. There's nothing bad or good about that. They'll probably keep making decent but not great games for a while.

Well, here's to looking for the next Bioware
Cheers, folks.

While I understand what you are saying here, I disagree with you on the premise. I think Bioware major problem is who they partnered up with, EA. EA isn't known for their high quality games beyond the Madden series which is starting to fall off in quaility. Bioware first partner was Microsoft which limits their platform options, but I think Microsoft
has more experience in putting out quality games for the most part.

I am not saying ME 3 is low quality, quite the opposite really for 90% of the game. I do think EA doesn't value quality control and quality testing of the full product before it is release. I think if allow the time any gaming company would test the full product on cross-section of their potential customers. This is something movie companies do before
they release a big budget movie to determine how much publicity to put into a movie. I think Bioware and any smart gaming company should start using this business practice to avoid these misteps they have done
recently.

Edit: I like Dragon Age 2. I think it is a fun game. Just want to put that out there.

Seems to me that EA isn't used to operating RPG-based studios. The EA's definition of 'quality' does not match up with the old Bioware fans understanding of the term methinks. AAA has become synonymous with 'quality' in gamer lingo, but refers more to visuals and polish, rather than what might be thought of proper, meaty content.

[Cadence of the Planes]

Brightside8 wrote...

The simple fact is that Bioware is at the end of it's creative life span.

You sound rather sure of yourself.

Can you forsee the future with that much accuracy?

[Sesshaku]

Drama aside, then drama?

Why do you hate that irony? It's art! It's like Reaper's logic...don't you get it? Entitled Fools

[Denethar]

To be honest, EA makes some pretty amazing sports games. Other than that it is usually very average.

I get what the TC is saying and I agree to a point. DA 2 was average, SWTOR is average beyond belief. ME 3 is good, but 1 and 2 were better. Nothing wrong with making average games, but Bioware used to make great games.

[Hsuzy1987]

Luc0s wrote...


I never said that old talent making way for new talent is a bad thing. I actually approve. BioWare has given us some of the best story-telling RPGs ever in the past, but it seems they has lost their touch. The CD Projekt seems to become the new source of amazing story-telling RPGs.

CDPR (The CD Projekt Red) has proven to be quite capable of producing epic, hardcore story-telling RPGs that stay true to the RPG francise, no "streamlining", just hardcore RPG gameplay with an epic story, that's what CDPR has achieved with The Witcher so far. I can't way to see what the future has in story for us. I except that we're going to hear a lot more from CDPR in the future.

Yep I think they've lost that magic spark too. Their games aren't *bad* per se, they just don't seem to quite reach the heights of what they've done before. As Mordin would say: 'Unfortunate'.

I'm still wondering, however, if we can pinpoint exactly where it all started unravelling. Would be interesting if it could be quantified or at least identified. At least that will constitute proper feedback.

Anyway, I don't think I've played any game from CDPR though, any recommendations?

[Mavaras]

Hsuzy1987 wrote...
Bioware will continue to exist by virtue of also being responsible for SWTOR, since they'll need to keep putting out products. I'm just not convinced they can put out SP RPGs of the calibre of those that came before.

I'm desperately hoping to be proven wrong though.

I'm seriously wondering if SWTOR is going to end up being a complete bust.

I have been slowly watching the server population decay. For instance, when I played the game at launch my server would have 500 in fleet on a friday night. This past friday, it had 73. It's not looking pretty from where I'm sitting.

Modifié par Mavaras, 25 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[Hsuzy1987]

Sesshaku wrote...

Drama aside, then drama?

Why do you hate that irony? It's art! It's like Reaper's logic...don't you get it? Entitled Fools

Nearly, so nearly blasted the post when I saw 'entitled fools'. Then I reread the post, and lol-ed. 

Good one sir.

[Sashimi_taco]

I don't want to watch bioware die. It is too much, I can't let them go. I need to face the facts though, they are already gone.

Does anyone know any games where I can get the same level of depth of character relationships and story?

[Hsuzy1987]

Mavaras wrote...

Hsuzy1987 wrote...
Bioware will continue to exist by virtue of also being responsible for SWTOR, since they'll need to keep putting out products. I'm just not convinced they can put out SP RPGs of the calibre of those that came before.

I'm desperately hoping to be proven wrong though.

I'm seriously wondering if SWTOR is going to wind up as a fiasco.

I have been slowly watching the server population decay. For instance, when I played the game at launch my server would have 500 in fleet on a friday night. This past friday, it had 73. It's not looking pretty from where I'm sitting.

Maybe not a fiasco as in premature shutdown of the game altogether. I think it has enough of a long term subscriber base to last. But WoW-killer it is not. 

I haven't logged in for a while (I have a Jugg in JJT), but like you I did notice the drop in active players.

[tomcplotts]

Not to be a jerk or anything, but technically Bioware *is* dead and have been the day they were bought by EA, which is the company we're really doing business with. Bioware is simply a sub-label now; an appendage. Honestly, after DA3, I expect the Bioware label to be dropped entirely since no future titles hinge on the Bioware brand at the moment.

[agathokakological]

BrightSide8 wrote...

Drama aside, Bioware has hit the end of its lifespan 

Jesus, not to be dramatic or anything! I really hope this isn't the case, but if it is, I can see why. As a business, you shouldn't be able to get away with treating your customers like this. It's horrible etiquette.

[Brownfinger]

Sesshaku wrote...

Drama aside, then drama?

Yeah, that made me laugh.
All of these tearful "goodbye Bioware" posts are like people who weren't even invited to a party announcing their departure from it. No one cares how invested you were and how hurt you now are from some imaginary slight, dude. Just go. If you flake out over seemingly nothing in the big picture, then you really weren't much of a fan to begin with.

World keeps on spinnin'.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 25 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[kegNeggs]

it may not even be Biowares fault, more like the overlords at ea pushing them to do stuff they don't 100% agree with..

But as OP said, we've had countless hours of solid golden entertainment with series such as Baldur's Gate and NWN, Mass Effect 1/2 and DA and so on

I guess its back to tabletop rpg's for now

Modifié par kegNeggs, 25 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[curdy]

EA destroys everything it touches.

EA = Reapers
Bioware = Indoctrinated

They are kidding themselves if they say EA are not controlling them...

[tschamp]

Hsuzy1987 wrote...

tschamp wrote...

Brightside8 wrote...

The simple fact is that Bioware is at the end of it's creative life span.

The original passion and fire for art and artistic integrity can't last forever, and it's fading from Bioware. It shows.
So as painful as it is, this is goodbye, Bioware.

I'm not being fatalistic, but a wonderful, passionate, artistic studio can only exist for so long before it burns itself out. We've had two decades of *incredible* games, for which I thank you, but you've all burned yourselves out on creativity, and now it's just a job.

Thanks for the Baldur's Gate series.
Thanks for Never Winter Nights.
Thanks for Knights of the Old Republic
Thanks for Mass Effect 1
Thanks for Dragon Age: Origins
Thanks for Mass Effect 2

You've stocked my shelves with memorable games for two decades, games I will replay for years. I will watch the credits roll by again and thank every name there.

So goodbye, and goodluck in your careers.

P.S. I know he's not with Bioware anymore, but a very, very special thanks and lots of fan love to Drew Karpshyn, one of the best writers the industry has ever seen, and responsible for the moving stories and characters behind four of my favorite games of all time. Thank you Drew, I'll be watching for your new novels, and hope you get the time to write something original.

Edit for clarification:
I doubt Bioware will cease to exist as a label, but they have hit the end of their creative lifespan, or so it seems. Most of the original staff is gone, including their best writers, and they've been tethered to a larger corporate entity with deadlines and a bottom line. There's nothing bad or good about that. They'll probably keep making decent but not great games for a while.

Well, here's to looking for the next Bioware
Cheers, folks.

While I understand what you are saying here, I disagree with you on the premise. I think Bioware major problem is who they partnered up with, EA. EA isn't known for their high quality games beyond the Madden series which is starting to fall off in quaility. Bioware first partner was Microsoft which limits their platform options, but I think Microsoft
has more experience in putting out quality games for the most part.

I am not saying ME 3 is low quality, quite the opposite really for 90% of the game. I do think EA doesn't value quality control and quality testing of the full product before it is release. I think if allow the time any gaming company would test the full product on cross-section of their potential customers. This is something movie companies do before
they release a big budget movie to determine how much publicity to put into a movie. I think Bioware and any smart gaming company should start using this business practice to avoid these misteps they have done
recently.

Edit: I like Dragon Age 2. I think it is a fun game. Just want to put that out there.

Seems to me that EA isn't used to operating RPG-based studios. The EA's definition of 'quality' does not match up with the old Bioware fans understanding of the term methinks. AAA has become synonymous with 'quality' in gamer lingo, but refers more to visuals and polish, rather than what might be thought of proper, meaty content.

The visuals in ME 3 is stunning. I think we can all agree about that aspect of the game. I do agree that EA has little or no experience with RPG games due to the emphise on their sport game which they are well known for. I think it would be in Bioware's best interest to end their partnership with EA and find a company that understand what they need as far as time frame in production of a quaility game. EA at on time used to put out high quaility games, but that was over 15 years ago. EA has become more about the money and less about what makes them money in the long run. Eventhough it would mean the lost of the Playstation platform, Bioware should go back to working with Microsoft. This would give them greater time and some resources that only Microsoft can provide with techological advances in software.

I don't think Bioware is bad company, quite the opposite really. I think they made bad business choice by partnering up with EA midway thru the creation of ME 2.

[nevar00]

I'm giving them a chance to fix this mess, but if not I'm right up there with you.

I imagine sooner or later EA will have a conversation with Bioware that will go something like this: "YOU HAVE FAILED. WE SHALL FIND ANOTHER WAY. RELEASING CONTROL."

[Risselda]

Someone made a really clever statement taking Harby's quote about civilization rising and being destroyed abd fit bioware and corporations in there. I cant find it now, but ti was so fitting.

I hope bioware surprises us.

[Rombomm]

"The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Developers rise, evolve, advance, and at the apex of their glory they are extinguished." ~ EA

---

I assume that's what you were thinking of, Risselda?

Modifié par Rombomm, 25 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Hsuzy1987]

tschamp wrote...

The visuals in ME 3 is stunning. I think we can all agree about that aspect of the game. I do agree that EA has little or no experience with RPG games due to the emphise on their sport game which they are well known for. I think it would be in Bioware's best interest to end their partnership with EA and find a company that understand what they need as far as time frame in production of a quaility game. EA at on time used to put out high quaility games, but that was over 15 years ago. EA has become more about the money and less about what makes them money in the long run. Eventhough it would mean the lost of the Playstation platform, Bioware should go back to working with Microsoft. This would give them greater time and some resources that only Microsoft can provide with techological advances in software.

I don't think Bioware is bad company, quite the opposite really. I think they made bad business choice by partnering up with EA midway thru the creation of ME 2.

yeah I get what you mean. I think that EA didn't quite get that while 'cinematic experience' is a good way to go in FPS shooters, it doesn't necessarily produce quite the same effect in RPGs.

Cinema is, to my understanding, typified by a sort of voyueristic viewing of another individual's experiences. Might look good, but doesn't always work when you're supposed to BE the character in question.

[Ziggeh]

Sorry, what?

Of the games they've released in the last half a decade one was great but had a cack ending, one was ok but not as good as it's predecessor and the some of the rest have been the some of the best games ever produced.

Seriously, I'm not even sure that consitutes a whole strike, let alone three. I'm not sure you can declare them out on the basis that the last thing you remember wasn't so good.

[NekOoNinja]

Hsuzy1987 wrote...

tschamp wrote...

Brightside8 wrote...

The simple fact is that Bioware is at the end of it's creative life span.

The original passion and fire for art and artistic integrity can't last forever, and it's fading from Bioware. It shows.
So as painful as it is, this is goodbye, Bioware.

I'm not being fatalistic, but a wonderful, passionate, artistic studio can only exist for so long before it burns itself out. We've had two decades of *incredible* games, for which I thank you, but you've all burned yourselves out on creativity, and now it's just a job.

Thanks for the Baldur's Gate series.
Thanks for Never Winter Nights.
Thanks for Knights of the Old Republic
Thanks for Mass Effect 1
Thanks for Dragon Age: Origins
Thanks for Mass Effect 2

You've stocked my shelves with memorable games for two decades, games I will replay for years. I will watch the credits roll by again and thank every name there.

So goodbye, and goodluck in your careers.

P.S. I know he's not with Bioware anymore, but a very, very special thanks and lots of fan love to Drew Karpshyn, one of the best writers the industry has ever seen, and responsible for the moving stories and characters behind four of my favorite games of all time. Thank you Drew, I'll be watching for your new novels, and hope you get the time to write something original.

Edit for clarification:
I doubt Bioware will cease to exist as a label, but they have hit the end of their creative lifespan, or so it seems. Most of the original staff is gone, including their best writers, and they've been tethered to a larger corporate entity with deadlines and a bottom line. There's nothing bad or good about that. They'll probably keep making decent but not great games for a while.

Well, here's to looking for the next Bioware
Cheers, folks.

While I understand what you are saying here, I disagree with you on the premise. I think Bioware major problem is who they partnered up with, EA. EA isn't known for their high quality games beyond the Madden series which is starting to fall off in quaility. Bioware first partner was Microsoft which limits their platform options, but I think Microsoft
has more experience in putting out quality games for the most part.

I am not saying ME 3 is low quality, quite the opposite really for 90% of the game. I do think EA doesn't value quality control and quality testing of the full product before it is release. I think if allow the time any gaming company would test the full product on cross-section of their potential customers. This is something movie companies do before
they release a big budget movie to determine how much publicity to put into a movie. I think Bioware and any smart gaming company should start using this business practice to avoid these misteps they have done
recently.

Edit: I like Dragon Age 2. I think it is a fun game. Just want to put that out there.

Seems to me that EA isn't used to operating RPG-based studios. The EA's definition of 'quality' does not match up with the old Bioware fans understanding of the term methinks. AAA has become synonymous with 'quality' in gamer lingo, but refers more to visuals and polish, rather than what might be thought of proper, meaty content.

This. I yearn for a well done KotoR'esque game, something ME 1 delivered. Afterwards, I'm not so sure. ME 3 is atleast really far from that.

Bring back the RPG.

[Hsuzy1987]

NekOoNinja wrote...

This. I yearn for a well done KotoR'esque game, something ME 1 delivered. Afterwards, I'm not so sure. ME 3 is atleast really far from that.

Bring back the RPG.

Probably lies in how RPGs, at least in my understanding, seem to be less dependent on graphics for the /win factor. I used to think that the whole striving towards 'cinematic experience' was a good thing, but recently I've started questioning that. I figure it works well for some games, not necessarily so well for others. RPGs seem to fall into the latter category.