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What IF! MIND BLOWN (The Synthetic Theory)


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#51
Ingu

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TheMadBlimper wrote...

Too bad Javik told us he saw us walking around as primitives who lived in caves. We couldn't have evolved to the point we are now if the crucible killed everyone at the end of the last cycle, right?


Didn't he also say that they never finished the crucible in time?

If Reapers are secretly good guys (or not the real villains) it'd make sense why they still leave organics hanging around. They're actually merciful creatures who want to preserve organic life. They kill the advanced civilisations because they don't have a choice. :wizard:

#52
Guest_Arcian_*

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Senario wrote...

The crucible is the synthetic that kills all life in the galaxy. A plot twist by M. Night Shyamalan.

Wrong. The Crucible is the galaxy that creates the synthetic that will kill itself to destroy the galaxy and thus the Crucible.

THAT is a plot twist by M. Night Shallamallamuh Shyamalan.

#53
7he Island Head

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TheMadBlimper wrote...

Too bad Javik told us he saw us walking around as primitives who lived in caves. We couldn't have evolved to the point we are now if the crucible killed everyone at the end of the last cycle, right?

The protheans never connected the Crucible to the Catalyst, so the synthetic never killed all the organics, the Reapers still won in the previous cycle.

#54
Leonia

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So the Reapers are the Vorlons now?

#55
GoblinSapper

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M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

... the funny part is when you realize that this would have been a pretty great plot twist.


Yes, funny. hahaha, haha ahhh *sobs*

#56
omnic

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Ingu wrote...

omnic wrote...

There is a fatal flaw in your theory.
The crucible requires the citadel to work.
The reapers made the citadel and in mass effect 3 actually gain total control over it.
If the reapers true purpose was to stop the crucible from being used they would of destroyed the citadel.



But the catalyst also says that the reapers are his solution, implying he has some sort of control over their actions. It is entirely possible the Reapers aren't entirely aware that they're being manipulated, or even if they do, have no choice but to play into the Catalyst's plans and hope they kill the organics fast enough.

tl;dr, the reapers didn't destroy the citadel because the catalyst wouldn't let them


Alternatively the Reapers may not be true AIs. Even Shepherd suggests at one stage that he/she may just be an 'advanced VI which thinks it's Commander Shepherd'. It could be the same case with the Reapers, they're not true synthetic 'AI's, but are operating under some sort of misconceptions or secret constraints, despite believing otherwise.


so in this theory, the citadel itself is trying to stop you from using the crucible(which requires the citadel to work) which is believed to stop the reapers but it actually destroys all organic life? If this is the case than the reapers could remove whatever part of the citadel is needed for the crucible to work. In fact the reapers could prevent the creation of the crucible in the first place by simply not showing up since the crucible is something so insanely large in scale it took a galaxy wide extinction level event to get people to create it. The reapers could literally prevent the crucible from being created by doing -nothing-. If they really feel the need to do some reaping they could do so say.... 5 thousand years earlier? When understanding and creating the crucible would of been impossible for any race. Furthermore why wouldn't the reaper AI god simply explain to shepard that the crucible is actually the key to destroying all organic life in the universe and that he shouldn't do anything with it. It makes more sense than the explaination the AI deity gave shepard and gives more of an incentive to not even touch the thing.

#57
Darthlawsuit

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It..... actually makes sense o_o

#58
Ingu

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omnic wrote...

so in this theory, the citadel itself is trying to stop you from using the crucible(which requires the citadel to work) which is believed to stop the reapers but it actually destroys all organic life? If this is the case than the reapers could remove whatever part of the citadel is needed for the crucible to work. In fact the reapers could prevent the creation of the crucible in the first place by simply not showing up since the crucible is something so insanely large in scale it took a galaxy wide extinction level event to get people to create it. The reapers could literally prevent the crucible from being created by doing -nothing-. If they really feel the need to do some reaping they could do so say.... 5 thousand years earlier? When understanding and creating the crucible would of been impossible for any race. Furthermore why wouldn't the reaper AI god simply explain to shepard that the crucible is actually the key to destroying all organic life in the universe and that he shouldn't do anything with it. It makes more sense than the explaination the AI deity gave shepard and gives more of an incentive to not even touch the thing.


No, as I stated in my previous musings. Catalyst =/= Reapers. Catalyst controls the Reapers. 

Same way that Sovereign =/= Saren + Geth. Sovereign controls Saren + Geth.

How much autonomy the Reapers have, or think they have, is unclear. :wizard:

#59
7he Island Head

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so in this theory, the citadel itself is trying to stop you from using the crucible(which requires the citadel to work) which is believed to stop the reapers but it actually destroys all organic life? If this is the case than the reapers could remove whatever part of the citadel is needed for the crucible to work. In fact the reapers could prevent the creation of the crucible in the first place by simply not showing up since the crucible is something so insanely large in scale it took a galaxy wide extinction level event to get people to create it. The reapers could literally prevent the crucible from being created by doing -nothing-. If they really feel the need to do some reaping they could do so say.... 5 thousand years earlier? When understanding and creating the crucible would of been impossible for any race. Furthermore why wouldn't the reaper AI god simply explain to shepard that the crucible is actually the key to destroying all organic life in the universe and that he shouldn't do anything with it. It makes more sense than the explaination the AI deity gave shepard and gives more of an incentive to not even touch the thing.

The Citadel, is the self aware synthetic (it refers to its self as the Catalyst). The reapers did remove and destroy the Crucible at some point, but organics keep rebuilding it. If the Crucible is joined to the Citadel the Catalyst then has the means to kill all organic life. When the Catalyst is talking about how synthetics will always kill their organic creators he is really talking about him self. When he claims he is control of the reapers, and that they are his solution, he is lieing. All conversations will the reapers shows that they are noone's puppet.

The reapers must harvest those races that discover the plans for the Crucible, for organics will eventually build it, then join it to the Citadel allowing the Catalyst to pure life. The Catalyst can not be killed for he resides in the Citadel, the largest mass relay. Destroying the Citadel would cause huge super nova like explosion, and it is also the only mass relay that links to dark space. Remember it is made clear that synthetics are programs, (geth side quests) so the Catalyst probably infected the Citadel because it was the only reaper proof hardware it could hide in.

 In fact the reapers could prevent the creation of the crucible in the first place by simply not showing up since the crucible is something so insanely large in scale it took a galaxy wide extinction level event to get people to create it. 

The plans for the crucible are such that its function is only discovered on use. If organics discover the plans at all the probablity of construction is to high, for various reasons ranging from quest of knowledge, pursuits of power, or just curiosity.


To clarify, the Catalyst is the program, that must unite with the hardware of the Cruicible to kill everyone. The Reapers want to prevent this, and the Catalyst is currently residing in the Citadel, hence why the two structures must unite. And then the combined hardware with the evil synethic make death space magic.

Modifié par 7he Island Head, 25 mars 2012 - 07:57 .


#60
Ingu

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  7he Island Head wrote...

When the Catalyst is talking about how synthetics will always kill their organic creators he is really talking about him self. When he claims he is control of the reapers, and that they are his solution, he is lieing. All conversations will the reapers shows that they are noone's puppet.



This isn't necessarily true, as I said earlier, it's possible that the Reaper's -think- they aren't puppets, when in fact the Catalyst is actively using them to encourage the building of the Crucible?

Granted either interpretation could be valid.

Modifié par Ingu, 25 mars 2012 - 08:04 .


#61
Jostle

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That's actually a really good theory, and something I'm going to have to ponder on.

A note: the reapers being a perceived threat isn't a prerequisite for constructing the crucible. Finding old reaper tech on mars brought humanity into the galactic community before anyone knew the reapers existed. It would have been built regardless, or at least the possibility of its construction is too great to ignore.

Now, this theory just needs a catchy name and I think you're set.

#62
pablosplinter

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AARGH!!!! EVERY SINGLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE ENDING HAS MORE THOUGHT PUT IN TO IT THAN WHAT WE GOT

#63
drak4806.2

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pablosplinter wrote...

AARGH!!!! EVERY SINGLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE ENDING HAS MORE THOUGHT PUT IN TO IT THAN WHAT WE GOT


It's sad because it's true.Image IPB

#64
omnic

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7he Island Head wrote...

so in this theory, the citadel itself is trying to stop you from using the crucible(which requires the citadel to work) which is believed to stop the reapers but it actually destroys all organic life? If this is the case than the reapers could remove whatever part of the citadel is needed for the crucible to work. In fact the reapers could prevent the creation of the crucible in the first place by simply not showing up since the crucible is something so insanely large in scale it took a galaxy wide extinction level event to get people to create it. The reapers could literally prevent the crucible from being created by doing -nothing-. If they really feel the need to do some reaping they could do so say.... 5 thousand years earlier? When understanding and creating the crucible would of been impossible for any race. Furthermore why wouldn't the reaper AI god simply explain to shepard that the crucible is actually the key to destroying all organic life in the universe and that he shouldn't do anything with it. It makes more sense than the explaination the AI deity gave shepard and gives more of an incentive to not even touch the thing.

The Citadel, is the self aware synthetic (it refers to its self as the Catalyst). The reapers did remove and destroy the Crucible at some point, but organics keep rebuilding it. If the Crucible is joined to the Citadel the Catalyst then has the means to kill all organic life. When the Catalyst is talking about how synthetics will always kill their organic creators he is really talking about him self. When he claims he is control of the reapers, and that they are his solution, he is lieing. All conversations will the reapers shows that they are noone's puppet.

The reapers must harvest those races that discover the plans for the Crucible, for organics will eventually build it, then join it to the Citadel allowing the Catalyst to pure life. The Catalyst can not be killed for he resides in the Citadel, the largest mass relay. Destroying the Citadel would cause huge super nova like explosion, and it is also the only mass relay that links to dark space. Remember it is made clear that synthetics are programs, (geth side quests) so the Catalyst probably infected the Citadel because it was the only reaper proof hardware it could hide in.

 In fact the reapers could prevent the creation of the crucible in the first place by simply not showing up since the crucible is something so insanely large in scale it took a galaxy wide extinction level event to get people to create it. 

The plans for the crucible are such that its function is only discovered on use. If organics discover the plans at all the probablity of construction is to high, for various reasons ranging from quest of knowledge, pursuits of power, or just curiosity.


To clarify, the Catalyst is the program, that must unite with the hardware of the Cruicible to kill everyone. The Reapers want to prevent this, and the Catalyst is currently residing in the Citadel, hence why the two structures must unite. And then the combined hardware with the evil synethic make death space magic.


I'm not saying removing the crucible and destroying it i'm talking about removing whatever part the citadel uses that the crucible ends up using as well.

All of this doesn't matter though because the theory requires that the reapers for no good reason take a gamble on the idea of being able to manipulate shepard when they could literally have anything with a gun shoot at the tube. Its not like the synthesis ending where it requires untainted organic material to use as the basis for example. 

It comes down to this: why would the catalyst wait for shepard to destroy the tube.

#65
xxskyshadowxx

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It still blows my mind that the fans of the game are putting tons more effort into the ending than those who had the "Artistic vision."

#66
lordofthejewsjr

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so in simpleton words, this means......


sorry, i just saw 21 jump street my brain is still in stupid mode. it was funny though.

#67
AllThatJazz

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LOTS OF SPECULATION!!!!!!111

#68
XPMUser

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mind is blown

#69
7he Island Head

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omnic wrote...

I'm not saying removing the crucible and destroying it i'm talking about removing whatever part the citadel uses that the crucible ends up using as well.

It seems that they containted the program well enough, but the physical components of the Citadel seems to the same parts used for the mass relay, so they can't get rid of it.

All of this doesn't matter though because the theory requires that the reapers for no good reason take a gamble on the idea of being able to manipulate shepard when they could literally have anything with a gun shoot at the tube. Its not like the synthesis ending where it requires untainted organic material to use as the basis for example. 

It comes down to this: why would the catalyst wait for shepard to destroy the tube.

The choice is an illusion, all three endings allow the Catalyst to destroy the mass relay systems, the most efficent way of destroying all organics. Plus the reapers think Shepherd is dead, shot him/her with a laser and all. And are trying to use TIM to prevent Anderson from releasing the Catalyst. Shepherd's survival was unexpected, not a gamble.

#70
Iwillbeback

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natalZ wrote...

Wow... makes more sense than the actual ending!


Its genius.
I actually like it a lot, too bad the game is already ruined.

#71
JulienJaden

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Senario wrote...

The crucible is the synthetic that kills all life in the galaxy. A plot twist by M. Night Shyamalan.


Which reminds me: Could anyone look if Shyamalan's name is somewhere in the credits? If the Lost director didn't consult on the ending, it had to be him.

#72
AlexXIV

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M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

... the funny part is when you realize that this would have been a pretty great plot twist.

Yep, thought the same. It is kind of astonishing what people can come up with.

#73
N7Infernox

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Is it wrong that I LOVE this idea?

#74
7he Island Head

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JulienJaden wrote...

Senario wrote...

The crucible is the synthetic that kills all life in the galaxy. A plot twist by M. Night Shyamalan.


Which reminds me: Could anyone look if Shyamalan's name is somewhere in the credits? If the Lost director didn't consult on the ending, it had to be him.

I checked IMDB, he wan't involved...

#75
NPH11

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I thought you plebs would've figured this out by now.

You just can't fathom Bioware's GENIUS!!!!!!!!

!!