194 réponses à ce sujet

[Zix13]

I thought about this. Then I realized you have Jack on your crew.... Since when were you worried about psychopaths on your ship?

[Tilarta]

Well, I wouldn't trust Morinth anymore then I can push a Reaper uphill through a black hole with a broken mass relay.

She'll go on torturing and killing people as long as she lives, which for an Asari, is a very long time indeed.
Samara does mention that Morinth can stop herself for doing so, because there have been 50 year stretches where she didn't kill people, just to avoid attracting the attention of her mother.
But inevitably, she can't stop herself and picks up where she left off.

And I researched all the material at Nef's apartment, plus the stuff I learned at Omega while chasing her down paint a very unpleasant picture. To say Morinth's personal tastes are, well, extreme would be an understatement.

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter how much Morinth likes her sisters, when push comes to shove, she'd sacrifice them in a heartbeat so she could live. And anybody else who was along for the ride as well. The way I see it, her personal relationships aren't very solid, she's out for number 1.
From her point of view, she's only interested in what she wants and her survival, so nothing else, not even family matters to that.

Also, Samara states that until Morinth escaped, she was retired. She only came out of retirement to locate her wayward daughter and resolve the situation. I'm assuming in the beginning, she just wanted her to go back to the Monastery. But then the murders started and that was no longer an option.
Another example of how it's all about Morinth, the only reason she wants her sisters to leave is so that they will start living like she does, killing people and sucking them dry for the evilulz. The fact that they don't want to live like that is irrevalent to Morinth.

And as for psychotic behavior, yes, our crew is full of dangerous and aggressive people, but not one of them is a premediated murderer. They've never killed anybody without a good reason. Heck, even Subject Zero's victims did something to deserve it!

They kill out of necessity, to get rid of their enemies, Morinth does it for pleasure.
And that's the difference.

[Zix13]

Tilarta wrote...

Well, I wouldn't trust Morinth anymore then I can push a Reaper uphill through a black hole with a broken mass relay.

She'll go on torturing and killing people as long as she lives, which for an Asari, is a very long time indeed.
Samara does mention that Morinth can stop herself for doing so, because there have been 50 year stretches where she didn't kill people, just to avoid attracting the attention of her mother.
But inevitably, she can't stop herself and picks up where she left off.

And I researched all the material at Nef's apartment, plus the stuff I learned at Omega while chasing her down paint a very unpleasant picture. To say Morinth's personal tastes are, well, extreme would be an understatement.

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter how much Morinth likes her sisters, when push comes to shove, she'd sacrifice them in a heartbeat so she could live. And anybody else who was along for the ride as well. The way I see it, her personal relationships aren't very solid, she's out for number 1.
From her point of view, she's only interested in what she wants and her survival, so nothing else, not even family matters to that.

Also, Samara states that until Morinth escaped, she was retired. She only came out of retirement to locate her wayward daughter and resolve the situation. I'm assuming in the beginning, she just wanted her to go back to the Monastery. But then the murders started and that was no longer an option.
Another example of how it's all about Morinth, the only reason she wants her sisters to leave is so that they will start living like she does, killing people and sucking them dry for the evilulz. The fact that they don't want to live like that is irrevalent to Morinth.

And as for psychotic behavior, yes, our crew is full of dangerous and aggressive people, but not one of them is a premediated murderer. They've never killed anybody without a good reason. Heck, even Subject Zero's victims did something to deserve it!

They kill out of necessity, to get rid of their enemies, Morinth does it for pleasure.
And that's the difference.

ME2 Jack is less crazy than Morinth??? o.O Don't remember Morinth being all like, hey shep, can we go explode that monastary? Jacks taste are easily as extreme as well.... Difference between them is that Morinth is smarter and more predictable, and has better fashion sense.

Modifié par Zix13, 26 mars 2012 - 10:34 .

[Xellith]

Jack is a sweetheart. Shes like hard on the outside but soft on the inside. You just have to get past her defences.

[Zix13]

Xellith wrote...

Jack is a sweetheart. Shes like hard on the outside but soft on the inside. You just have to get past her defences.

She's still a big enough **** to be frozen in a prison where everyones a serial killer...

[lordmorbus]

Red Dust wrote...

Would it have been such a great stretch of the budget to put her in place of Samara, attempting to rescue and liberate her sisters?

I know I wanted to talk to Morinth so bad and they just kill her off. Makes me sick...........

[Rabbidsquirrel88]

Never tried this on my me2 games, but is it possible to scare morinth off at the bar, not get samaras loyalty, and keep her alive through the suicide mission?

I wonder if you would find both samara and morinth fighting it out...

[The Angry One]

Goneaviking wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

How is it a stupid risk, Morinth would know any renegade Shepard would nail her ass to the wall if she tried anything with the crew. She's not stupid.

If she can control herself that well for an extended period of time, despite regular opportunities, the "addict who can't control herself" argument seems even more shallow and ill-advised.

True but personally I don't put much stock into that argument.
I know she's a sicko. But to me Morinth and Samara are a choice between a completely unrepentant sicko and a sicko who sticks to a set of rules to justify her murderous urges.

Even with that rationale, it's a choice between someone who kills apparent criminals and someone who kills the beautiful and that talented. Someone who is sworn to protect the innocent even if it means letting a criminal escape or someone who only values her own life.

Except Samara doesn't just kill the apparently guilty, she kills everyone in her way.
The cop in Ilium was petrified that Samara would just start murdering anyone, suspect, police or bystander alike and Samara doesn't deny that she'll do just that.

[Silhouett3]

Tilarta wrote...

..They've never killed anybody without a good reason. Heck, even Subject Zero's victims did something to deserve it!

They kill out of necessity, to get rid of their enemies, Morinth does it for pleasure.
And that's the difference.

Krogan don't kill for pleasure? They all say "it's in our blood" for gods sake!
Jack? She crashed a space station into a moon for fun. In her loyalty mission she even admits that Cerberus's drugs and tortures made her still experience "warm feelings during a fight"
And Zaeed? In Ilium he says something like "most of my victims are nothing more than a name on some piece of paper"
Even Thane has very naive (or religious) views of being a gun for hire: "my body doesn't kill, my employers does". Ummm.... right.

All have very good reasons to kill I see.

[Tilarta]

Krogan have always been hot-tempered, so it's not exactly a perfect argument.

Subject Zero, well, she's so messed up psychologically, can you really blame her for anything she does?
So glad Cerberus never got their hands on Gillian......

Massani and Thane, paycheck.
But it's not like they're finding specific targets to kill for the "fun of it".

Heck, the only kills Thane made that he wasn't paid for was the guys who killed his wife and the evil Asari crimelord. And well, she had it coming!

[Dendio1]

bobobo878 wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...
Nope.

Morinth and Samara are bother murderers, but at least Morinth is honest with herself about what she does. Morinth may not have a religious code to justify killing Nef, but that does not make this act any more monsterous than the murders Samara commits. If Shepard hadn't come to her rescue, Samara would have murdered that cop on Illium just for doing her job.

Samara said she saw him kill an unarmed civilian, but she didn't bother to stop and ask him why she killed that person. Being a Spectre, Nihilus could have had a very good reason for killing that person. The person Nihlus killed could have been a spy, who would have put people in danger with the information he would have sent if Nihlus had killed him later. Or, he could have been a terrorist, bearing a concealed weapon of mass destruction that Samara did not see. But Samara herself said that she did not know why Nihlus killed him.

When Samara said that she didn't need to know why she was helping you eradicate the collectors, saying "If I have to kill a man, do I need to know he's a loving father?" it revealed a deeply disturbing facet of her character. Samara simply does not care to know if what she does is wrong. After she discovered that her daughters were ardat-yakshi she ceased to trust in her own judgement, and being too afraid to make her own choices anymore, she lets her code think for her. For all she knew, Nihlus could have just saved more lives than she ever will, but that doesn't matter to her because allowing her code to think for her saves her from having to make hard choices.

I'm not saying it's okay for Morinth to commit serial murder against hipsters on Omega, but Samara is a trigger happy zealot meddling in galactic security affairs that she simply does not care to understand. At least when Morinth murders in cold blood, she put galactic security at risk.

Well said. Honestly Samara came off cold to me in me2. I was curious as to the possibilities having someone like morinth could entail. Bioware sorta dropped the ball on her, but what can you do

[Solmanian]

Red Dust wrote...

Would it have been such a great stretch of the budget to put her in place of Samara, attempting to rescue and liberate her sisters?

yes. it would.

[DevilBeast]

Red Dust wrote...

Would it have been such a great stretch of the budget to put her in place of Samara, attempting to rescue and liberate her sisters?

I haven´t interacted with Morinth much since I always let Samara kill her in my playthroughs, but wouldn´t that be a bit out of character for her, considering her sociopathic behaviour and the fact that her sisters, clearly don´t like her (see LotSB).

[DevilBeast]

Dendio1 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...
Nope.

Morinth and Samara are bother murderers, but at least Morinth is honest with herself about what she does. Morinth may not have a religious code to justify killing Nef, but that does not make this act any more monsterous than the murders Samara commits. If Shepard hadn't come to her rescue, Samara would have murdered that cop on Illium just for doing her job.

Samara said she saw him kill an unarmed civilian, but she didn't bother to stop and ask him why she killed that person. Being a Spectre, Nihilus could have had a very good reason for killing that person. The person Nihlus killed could have been a spy, who would have put people in danger with the information he would have sent if Nihlus had killed him later. Or, he could have been a terrorist, bearing a concealed weapon of mass destruction that Samara did not see. But Samara herself said that she did not know why Nihlus killed him.

When Samara said that she didn't need to know why she was helping you eradicate the collectors, saying "If I have to kill a man, do I need to know he's a loving father?" it revealed a deeply disturbing facet of her character. Samara simply does not care to know if what she does is wrong. After she discovered that her daughters were ardat-yakshi she ceased to trust in her own judgement, and being too afraid to make her own choices anymore, she lets her code think for her. For all she knew, Nihlus could have just saved more lives than she ever will, but that doesn't matter to her because allowing her code to think for her saves her from having to make hard choices.

I'm not saying it's okay for Morinth to commit serial murder against hipsters on Omega, but Samara is a trigger happy zealot meddling in galactic security affairs that she simply does not care to understand. At least when Morinth murders in cold blood, she put galactic security at risk.

Well said. Honestly Samara came off cold to me in me2. I was curious as to the possibilities having someone like morinth could entail. Bioware sorta dropped the ball on her, but what can you do

Samara is a warrior, a soldier. Just like Shepard. Ever wondered if the mercs Shep was so busy killing in ME2 had families and just tried to feed their famliy?? 
Morinth is a serial killer no matter how you look at it. Not even her medical condition can justify that because most AY choose to live in isolation or at least try to control their urges. Morinth does neither of those things. 
She kills because she likes it. For her it´s a source of pleasure and power. 
Samara kills because she follows the orders laid out by her code, just like a soldier who follows the orders given by his superiors. Now the nature of the code and wether it´s teachings are wise can of course be debated, but you can´t deny the fact that Samara strives towards one goal: To protect the innocent. Can you say the same about Morinth??

Again, think about it: All Morinth´s actions bears extremely uncanny resemblence to real-life serial killers and their urges for killing. She is basically the ME universe´s mixture between a succubus and Ted Bundy.   

Modifié par DevilBeast, 27 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[lordofthejewsjr]

Goneaviking wrote...

MjK wrote...

Morinth is a great character... Ardat-Yakshi are forced to live into a monastery or die... That's pretty harsh especially when you are a young (teen?) asari who planned something your futur.

"Hey sweetie, it seems you have a genetic failure, you'll kill every sexual partners you'll have.
Die or play chess for a millenia ?"

D:

She's not a serial killer on purpose. 

Yes she is. Having a tragic backstory and a lethal STD does not negate free will. Nor does addiction. Morinth made her choices, and she chose to be a sexual predator.

edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Noah22/ChrisHansen.png

[p__q]

From what I've read a lot of people think its justified because they didn't like the character, its certainly ok to hate Morinth but I hope the people who hate her still appreciate how disappointing this cameo was for people who did choose to save her (especially when she could have easily taken her mothers place on the AY monastery mission, fits with the emails she sends her sisters), its like the Jacob thing, I think he's a worthless character but I can at least agree fem sheps who romanced him got screwed over by the game big time.

[Icinix]

p__q wrote...

From what I've read a lot of people think its justified because they didn't like the character, its certainly ok to hate Morinth but I hope the people who hate her still appreciate how disappointing this cameo was for people who did choose to save her (especially when she could have easily taken her mothers place on the AY monastery mission, fits with the emails she sends her sisters), its like the Jacob thing, I think he's a worthless character but I can at least agree fem sheps who romanced him got screwed over by the game big time.

Its Analytics. They see a tiny number took her, so they don't bother with it.

Games had more variety and choice back before they started tracking details giving the games a greater sense of open world and freedom. They had to have those options because they had no idea what people chose to do beyond the forums. Now they have those details, they don't need to worry about it.

DA2 is a good example, characters are forced on you because no-one would pass up more character content and good choices were always forced because the majority would alwyas go for the 'good' options (such as saving Hawkes Mother etc).

The problem is, where is the fun in being good if being bad is not an option? If we know the game is going to put us on a set path - and its not your own moral struggle in your mind - then you're not really engaging and playing the game. You're just going through the motions.

[DevilBeast]

CaFé87 wrote...

I always ahd the impression, that Morinth was sad about being forced to be lonely and that she really was hoping for Shepard to survive their romance.
I dont know why she would lie to you.

Ehmm... It´s not unusual for sociopaths to lie, you know..

[Five1thOUsanD]

Interesting tidbit:

I actually tried to 'romance' Morinth in ME2 and she wouldn't do it, even after the suicide mission. That really helped to redeem her in my mind; knowing that she wouldn't go all space-vampire on me even if I wanted her to.

Beyond that, Morinth and Samara are equally psychotic in my mind. One threatened to kill me, the other tried to kill me and failed.

[count_4]

Red Dust wrote...
Would it have been such a great stretch of the budget to put her in place of Samara, attempting to rescue and liberate her sisters?

The mails to her sisters even suggest such a thing. But it was probably cut like a lot of other things... :/

[CasbynessPC]

Why isn't there a "deserves better ending" banner for Morinth?

[Fenrisfil]

Shows the Reapers made a mistake, she was much more dangerous without being turned into a Banshee.

Running around secretly shag killing anyone interesting, or taking a Cain to the face before she can get close enough for most people to even notice it's her. Hmmm.

Still she died a hero, that's twice she tried to save Shepard from the ending.

On a more serious note, I couldn't justify saving her even on a renegade Shepard. I figured Samara would at least be less likely to try and kill me before the end of the mission.

[ObserverStatus]

DevilBeast wrote...
Samara is a warrior, a soldier. Just like Shepard. Ever wondered if the mercs Shep was so busy killing in ME2 had families and just tried to feed their famliy?? 
Morinth is a serial killer no matter how you look at it. Not even her medical condition can justify that because most AY choose to live in isolation or at least try to control their urges. Morinth does neither of those things. 
She kills because she likes it. For her it´s a source of pleasure and power. 

 

We don't necessarily know that Morinth left so she could kill.  Maybe she just didn't want to be cooped up in that creepy ass monastery for the rest of her life?  In my headcanon she thought she could control herself when she first left, but when she discovered that she couldn't it was already too late.

DevilBeast wrote... 
Samara kills because she follows the orders laid out by her code, just like a soldier who follows the orders given by his superiors. Now the nature of the code and wether it´s teachings are wise can of course be debated, but you can´t deny the fact that Samara strives towards one goal: To protect the innocent. Can you say the same about Morinth??

Right, Samara just murders innocent people because she is compelled to and believes that it is for the greater good.  Kinda like the guards at Auschwitz.

DevilBeast wrote... 
Again, think about it: All Morinth´s actions bears extremely uncanny resemblence to real-life serial killers and their urges for killing. She is basically the ME universe´s mixture between a succubus and Ted Bundy.   

She seems to me more like Bo from "Lost Girl" than Ted Bundy to me.  Originally she had to kill a whole bunch of people to survive, until this one doctor lady taught her how to feed on people without killing them.

[ReallyRue]

I think it was daft. If they were going to turn her into a banshee, then it should at least have been part of the monastary mission, and we should have been able to talk to her before it happened, and then fight her after it happened. Instead of her being just another random banshee you fight. What's even the point of that?

[Zix13]

Fenrisfil wrote...

Shows the Reapers made a mistake, she was much more dangerous without being turned into a Banshee.

Running around secretly shag killing anyone interesting, or taking a Cain to the face before she can get close enough for most people to even notice it's her. Hmmm.

Still she died a hero, that's twice she tried to save Shepard from the ending.

On a more serious note, I couldn't justify saving her even on a renegade Shepard. I figured Samara would at least be less likely to try and kill me before the end of the mission.

Three times.... Samara's loyalty mission, after suicide mission, and as a banshee. Seriously though, she deserved a real cameo.