314 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Aveline's already drawing enough suspicion from people for deflecting the Guardsmen near Fenris' "house". To do the same for another section of the city would mean she'd be under intense scrutiny.

The previous Captain was sending guards into death-traps in order to deliver messages to bandits but no one caught on until Aveline and Hawke appeared. NPCs are stupid and incapable. Intense scrutiny is probably someone coming by once a week and asking, "So Aveline, doing anything corrupt or negligent lately? No? Carry on then!"

lol true.

Though I don't think Jeven was doing it for long, was he? I mean, we have Captain Eweld in the Prologue, so Jeven couldn't have been Captain for too long. 

And no one could really suspect anything when a Guardsmen was murdered on a mission that they were going on alone for. Jeven probably told whoever he sent to their death "Take this to X location, but don't tell anyone where you're going! This is an important mission!".

At any rate, stupid NPCs are something that should be avoided as much as possible. If Jeven was only the Captain for a few weeks, that'd be one thing. But we're given no inclination as to how long he's been Guard-Captain compared to the previous one -- who was actually a decent fellow.

Speculation exists as to how Jeven came into that position and his predecessor left it, but we don't know much of anything.

Sorry... bit of a rant there that didn't have much bearing.

Wulfram wrote...

Who wants to live with all those damn Shem, anyway?

I reckon I could live quite happily in Merrill's house. Well, as long we could get the Eluvian to give us broadband internet.

Merrill's house is nicer then Gamlen's. I'd enjoy living with her.

[Maria Caliban]

Wulfram wrote...

Well, as long we could get the Eluvian to give us broadband internet.

Eluvian broadband is Canadian Demonic. It costs a pint of blood a month unless you go over your cap, and then it's a gallon of blood for each additional 10 GB after the cap.

[Pzykozis]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

Hmm the problem I see with this stuff though is that, if you create all sorts of additional content for the mages then to a certain extent the other playthroughs feel like.. well like the red haired stepchild, if theres extra content specifically for Mages it would kind of need to be mirrored across the classes which is a lot of extra work. I belive it was said they were interested in perhaps doing stuff like this going forward though so perhaps it'll happen. I'd love t see a less static world though, it is something I want t see more of in the next gen stuff.

I suggested once that BioWare just make Hawke a mage. As Hawke was raised outside of the Circle, it would have made sense for her to have mage skills and regular skills.

Instead of Mage, Warrior, Rogue for the PC, you could play a mage who focuses on magic, a mage who's focused on martial pursuits, and a mage who's into lockpicking, sneaking, and using daggers.

That way, they could focus on the mage vs templar problem from the start without feeling as though they're excluding certain classes.

Would have been pretty much perfect to be honest, and Ethereal it's not really about extra quests as such, its just that if you recognise the choice of a mage player, then to a certain extent their has to be acknowledgement that the player is a rogue or a warrior, otherwise you end up with a game that is specifically catered to the mage player, but feels a lot worse as anything else, though that's just my opinion.

Modifié par Pzykozis, 28 mars 2012 - 09:21 .

[Dejajeva]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Aveline's already drawing enough suspicion from people for deflecting the Guardsmen near Fenris' "house". To do the same for another section of the city would mean she'd be under intense scrutiny.

The previous Captain was sending guards into death-traps in order to deliver messages to bandits but no one caught on until Aveline and Hawke appeared. NPCs are stupid and incapable. Intense scrutiny is probably someone coming by once a week and asking, "So Aveline, doing anything corrupt or negligent lately? No? Carry on then!"

lol true.

Though I don't think Jeven was doing it for long, was he? I mean, we have Captain Eweld in the Prologue, so Jeven couldn't have been Captain for too long. 

And no one could really suspect anything when a Guardsmen was murdered on a mission that they were going on alone for. Jeven probably told whoever he sent to their death "Take this to X location, but don't tell anyone where you're going! This is an important mission!".

At any rate, stupid NPCs are something that should be avoided as much as possible. If Jeven was only the Captain for a few weeks, that'd be one thing. But we're given no inclination as to how long he's been Guard-Captain compared to the previous one -- who was actually a decent fellow.

Speculation exists as to how Jeven came into that position and his predecessor left it, but we don't know much of anything.

Sorry... bit of a rant there that didn't have much bearing.

Wulfram wrote...

Who wants to live with all those damn Shem, anyway?

I reckon I could live quite happily in Merrill's house. Well, as long we could get the Eluvian to give us broadband internet.

Merrill's house is nicer then Gamlen's. I'd enjoy living with her.

I always wondered what happened to Eweld. Do they ever say? I liked him.

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ehh... that's not really entirely valid. If the writer says that you can jump 70 feet on a setting that shares Earth's physics, then the believable isn't what the writer said.

It is somewhat skewed example, and especially so when you consider that characters in DA2 routinely do jump dozens feet in the air during combat, despite being subjected to gravity that looks very much like that of Earth otherwise.

I guess it doesn't matter whether the property became the Viscount's or not. I imagine that's the law of Kirkwall though, and can't be argued against.

Yes, and that's precisely my point -- the law of Kirkwall is what the author says it is. It could be just as easy for them to say "manors in Kirkwall don't become property of Viscount" as it was to say the opposite. Generally, you can probably expect the 'laws' to be shaped by the need of the plot more than the other way around.

(Maria has already tackled the main point so, meh

[Davillo]

Look like I somehow foretold the future and my post was deleted so quickly that nobody even noticed it.

[FedericoV]

For me a solution could be to remove the concept of the lone hero/protagonist with the idea of the "company". I mean, the characters are all somewhat set and maybe the human gets the cover and all the marketing. But you can choose to play any charachter in the party at the beginning of the game. An example to clarify my position: the default choice is Hawke, but you can even play Varric or Fenris if you like.  I don't know if it would be cheaper or not: but it would be a good way to mix the various races and have some interesting RP opportunity. It would even fit better with the general idea of the gameplay.

[WardenWade]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[...]

I've said it before and I'll say it once more: Since the DA series is about Thedas, I view the series as shifting between who the protagonist will be in terms of race:

[...]

I truly hope race options will be in the plan once again myself, TEWR.  As for the bolded portion, I agree   I had posted a rather long comment on page one of this thread that, among many other things, argued much the same.  Thedas is its various races and IMO you can't tell its story--whatever it will be--without them all having a share of the "driver's seat" in DA3.  As it is, folks on this thread have made good points about how races could even have worked in DA2.

Modifié par WardenWade, 29 mars 2012 - 11:56 .

[omnitremere]

If we can't get different races how about just having the option of different backgrounds? In my opinion that's what is truly important. My Aeducan had the perspective of an exiled noble. The dwarf commoner was a former(or current) thief and damn near a slave seeing the surface for the first time. My city elf has dealt with racism all his life and for the first time feels like other races are taking him seriously and treating him with respect. And on and on.

If you take out the race part does it diminish the power of these backgrounds that much? I really don't think so. What I hated about Hawke is that from the very beginning I never really felt like I had control of the character. And it had nothing to do with his voice or being confused by paraphrasing. It's that everything about who he is and where he comes from felt like it was already decided. I think if you give the power back to the player to decide a protagonists fundamental history and perspective it really goes a long way.

[nightscrawl]

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Anyway, ontopic, I'd love to see different player races, but, with the focus on a voiced PC, I just don´t see it happen. Dwarves and Elves have a very different dialect compared to humans in the DA games we´ve seen..and I don´t see Bioware doing 6 different voices(which is why I love a silent PC so much, leaves more choice regarding player race (or at least makes it easier to implement))

*malevolent spoilers removed*

lets remember this is still a no spoilers section.

Well true, and I apologize, though I think it's a very mild spoiler, certainly not "malevolent", in fact I didn't consider it such when I wrote it since I was primarily speaking about the voice actors, and this thread is full of such points from several posters. I don't see why I should be singled out. /shrug

Actually, pretty much none of these types of threads should be in the non-spoiler section, because talking about any of these issues practically requires that you speak about story aspects of the game(s).

LobselVith8 wrote...

I thought the scene with Bethany was poorly done. Hawke acted inhuman in that scene, simply standing idly by like a piece of furniture.

I think so too. Actually, as is being discused in this thread, I think it can be better handled by the dialogue system allowing you to pick an emotional voice option, rather than one based on personality.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 29 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[AkiKishi]

FedericoV wrote...

For me a solution could be to remove the concept of the lone hero/protagonist with the idea of the "company". I mean, the characters are all somewhat set and maybe the human gets the cover and all the marketing. But you can choose to play any charachter in the party at the beginning of the game. An example to clarify my position: the default choice is Hawke, but you can even play Varric or Fenris if you like.  I don't know if it would be cheaper or not: but it would be a good way to mix the various races and have some interesting RP opportunity. It would even fit better with the general idea of the gameplay.

I don't think that is viable because you still need someone to speak as a protagonist and those lines are going to be different. In games like Final Fantasy XIII-2 you can do it, Sarah and Noel share role depending on the scene. But those are pre-scripted cutscenes which don't have to allow for choices most of the time. Even as far back as FFVII where you had Cloud as the official protagonist, at some points of the game he was not available for whatever reason and you took on the role of someone else. It's a great idea, but I just don't see a way to run it with variable conversations.

[PinkShoes]

David Gaider wrote...

ICevoL wrote...
if the PC is able to be elven in DA3, please let them wear shoes!  I remember finding it extremely distracting that Fenris and Merrill were tromping around through Maker-knows-what in their bare feet, not to mention if a melee enemy with massive boots would have stomped on their toes...

I think I can safely say that this is a battle I appear to be winning.

I didnt mind the dalish not wearing shoes but why not fenris? You'd think city elves would wear shoes. Or is it like in harry potter where you are only truely free once you get a sock? 

[nightscrawl]

PinkShoes wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

ICevoL wrote...
if the PC is able to be elven in DA3, please let them wear shoes!  I remember finding it extremely distracting that Fenris and Merrill were tromping around through Maker-knows-what in their bare feet, not to mention if a melee enemy with massive boots would have stomped on their toes...

I think I can safely say that this is a battle I appear to be winning.

I didnt mind the dalish not wearing shoes but why not fenris? You'd think city elves would wear shoes. Or is it like in harry potter where you are only truely free once you get a sock? 

Rofl. Danarius, here's your blood magic manual back...

[TwistedComplex]

David Gaider wrote...

I think that if one were to ask a fan "do you want more options?" the answer would always be yes-- regardless of the cost. Cost is not an issue to a fan, and neither should it be. We, of course, have no such luxury.

A Bioware developer talking about how they don't have enough money to go above and beyond is the most vomit enducing thing I've ever seen.

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 29 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[omnitremere]

TwistedComplex wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I think that if one were to ask a fan "do you want more options?" the answer would always be yes-- regardless of the cost. Cost is not an issue to a fan, and neither should it be. We, of course, have no such luxury.

A Bioware developer talking about how they don't have enough money to go above and beyond is the most vomit enducing thing I've ever seen.

Sometimes I wonder why developers bother posting on these boards at all.  How was that comment in any way productive?

[The_11thDoctor]

hopefully we'll get multiple races

[Dejajeva]

I012345 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I think that if one were to ask a fan "do you want more options?" the answer would always be yes-- regardless of the cost. Cost is not an issue to a fan, and neither should it be. We, of course, have no such luxury.

A Bioware developer talking about how they don't have enough money to go above and beyond is the most vomit enducing thing I've ever seen.

Sometimes I wonder why developers bother posting on these boards at all.  How was that comment in any way productive?

Seconded. I get really nervous that one day they are all gonna be like, "You know what? Screw you guys. It's not worth being harassed and answering dumb questions and repeating ourselves over and over and over again." And then we're all screwed because it's a pretty awesome thing they come on here at all.

[WardenWade]

aang001 wrote...

hopefully we'll get multiple races

This, absolutely!   Adding qunari to this would be excellent, too.  I'd like to see Circle mages return, as well.  Rebellion or not, IMO mageling children will need some sort of education and mages having trouble coping with their abilities will need support.

[CARL_DF90]

After reading through the majority of this thread I can honestly say that not having multiple race options doesn't really bother me. I'm always going to be more about "quality" over "quantity" any day of the week. If resources are saved to improve the overall quality of the final product then I'm all for it. There an old cliche that's fits here perfectly, "sometimes you can't having everything."

[John Epler]

TwistedComplex wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I think that if one were to ask a fan "do you want more options?" the answer would always be yes-- regardless of the cost. Cost is not an issue to a fan, and neither should it be. We, of course, have no such luxury.

A Bioware developer talking about how they don't have enough money to go above and beyond is the most vomit enducing thing I've ever seen.

Why? Because David was honest?

Games have a finite budget, both in money and man hours. Sure, we'd love to be able to spend years and years and as many millions of dollars as we need to make the absolutely perfect, no holds-barred best game ever, but that's unrealistic. Eventually, we have to release a game. And, more than that - we have to at least break even, if not make a profit. That's how the world works.

If that's the most 'vomit inducing thing' you've ever seen, then you've lived an incredibly sheltered life. Or you feel that hyperbole is the best way to get your point across - which it really isn't.

Modifié par John Epler, 30 mars 2012 - 05:46 .

[flub3]

John Epler wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I think that if one were to ask a fan "do you want more options?" the answer would always be yes-- regardless of the cost. Cost is not an issue to a fan, and neither should it be. We, of course, have no such luxury.

A Bioware developer talking about how they don't have enough money to go above and beyond is the most vomit enducing thing I've ever seen.

Why? Because David was honest?

Games have a finite budget, both in money and man hours. Sure, we'd love to be able to spend years and years and as many millions of dollars as we need to make the absolutely perfect, no holds-barred best game ever, but that's unrealistic. Eventually, we have to release a game. And, more than that - we have to at least break even, if not make a profit. That's how the world works.

If that's the most 'vomit inducing thing' you've ever seen, then you've lived an incredibly sheltered life. Or you feel that hyperbole is the best way to get your point across - which it really isn't.

This might be the greatest thing I have ever seen a dev post. Actually pointing out to the fans that this is a business? And that you guys need to make money? Unheard of. I love when the devs come onto the forums, skip all the PR crap, and post something honest. Thank you.

[nightscrawl]

Dejajeva wrote...

Seconded. I get really nervous that one day they are all gonna be like, "You know what? Screw you guys. It's not worth being harassed and answering dumb questions and repeating ourselves over and over and over again." And then we're all screwed because it's a pretty awesome thing they come on here at all.

Some of them take breaks from the forums occasionally, the posting at least. Hell, I've even taken breaks when I find myself getting too irritated by all of this forum nonsense and I don't even work there.

Happily though, they know that there are fans who love their work and appreciate what they do, so we're never abandoned .

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 mars 2012 - 05:51 .

[John Epler]

flub3 wrote...

This might be the greatest thing I have ever seen a dev post. Actually pointing out to the fans that this is a business? And that you guys need to make money? Unheard of. I love when the devs come onto the forums, skip all the PR crap, and post something honest. Thank you.

Well, for the majority of us, it really is about our passion for games - but at the end of the day, we are still a business, and resources are not infinite. As it is, we probably break most of the predictive tools because of 16-hour days and 7 day work weeks, but there's only so far you can go with crunch.

We're lucky, in that, by and large, we don't have to worry about the financials. Production and project management get to deal with that side of things, and we get to make the games. Personally, I don't envy them, but they're a necessary part of game development, at least when you're talking about a dev studio with salaried employees, expenses (whether regular such as rent, or irregular such as outsourcing). We need to make sure that we're able to sustain ourselves.

[Dejajeva]

I think its great to hear more about the financial part of making games. I really believe most people would have no idea what kind of money and resources it takes, and its probably an eye opener for people who expect you guys to have all kinds of money coming out of your ears. Too bad Bioware is Canadian though, you should play the 500 million plus lottery that's being drawn tomorrow night. Though if I win, can I become an investor? Lol.

[Rorschachinstein]

John Epler wrote...

flub3 wrote...

This might be the greatest thing I have ever seen a dev post. Actually pointing out to the fans that this is a business? And that you guys need to make money? Unheard of. I love when the devs come onto the forums, skip all the PR crap, and post something honest. Thank you.

Well, for the majority of us, it really is about our passion for games - but at the end of the day, we are still a business, and resources are not infinite. As it is, we probably break most of the predictive tools because of 16-hour days and 7 day work weeks, but there's only so far you can go with crunch.

We're lucky, in that, by and large, we don't have to worry about the financials. Production and project management get to deal with that side of things, and we get to make the games. Personally, I don't envy them, but they're a necessary part of game development, at least when you're talking about a dev studio with salaried employees, expenses (whether regular such as rent, or irregular such as outsourcing). We need to make sure that we're able to sustain ourselves.

more developers need to come out and say "we need some ******** money to make what you want us to make". If that means making deals with the devil (Microsoft/EA) then by god let it be done.