314 réponses à ce sujet

[Dutchess]

 I wonder how accurate those numbers are, because for those achievements to upload you have to allow the game to log you in, which was not obligatory in DAO. You could have had the very strange occurrence of many people who happen to play elves and/or dwarves not bothering to connect their account. :innocent: Just saying.
My first character was an elven mage. Second was a dalish elf. I really enjoyed the dwarven noble origin. So personally I would like race selection in the next game.

[yusuf060297]

David Gaider wrote...

Joseph627 wrote...
Agree completely, i would have actually like playing as an elf protagonist but not if they would look like the elves from da2.

It's probably worth mentioning that elves were only played by 15% (or less? I don't remember the exact number) of DAO players... as in ever. Meaning only 15% even tried the elven origins on one of their playthroughs.

Which is not to say the new elven look in DA2 would make it more or less popular, if offered... or anything, really, other than that the DAO elves were not inherently popular options to begin with.

I think this is one of those places where the telemetry doesn't lie. Race options are very popular with a smaller group of players-- to them, the expense is totally worth it. But the vast majority of players will only pick humans, even when options are offered. Whether there's any value to those people that such options exist, even if not taken, is the only intangible element in the equation (and should probably not be underestimated).

In my opinion, thats because new players would pick the first best choice (humans in this case) because they dont have that much knowlege of the game at the start. Setting the protagonist to one race would be nice imo because it would be different and not just an other human protagonist, zelda also has an elf as a protagonist if i remember right , and many like it. elves are also mostly humanoid looking so i dont think players would think that it would be a bad thing.

[David Gaider]

renjility wrote...
I wonder how accurate those numbers are, because for those achievements to upload you have to allow the game to log you in, which was not obligatory in DAO. You could have had the very strange occurrence of many people who happen to play elves and/or dwarves not bothering to connect their account. :innocent: Just saying.

For DAO you had to specifically disallow telemetry to be delivered-- and that's separate from the login. Considering our sample size of data is in the millions of individual players, I don't think it can really be discounted as statistically inaccurate.

[eyesofastorm]

David Gaider wrote...

renjility wrote...
I wonder how accurate those numbers are, because for those achievements to upload you have to allow the game to log you in, which was not obligatory in DAO. You could have had the very strange occurrence of many people who happen to play elves and/or dwarves not bothering to connect their account. :innocent: Just saying.

For DAO you had to specifically disallow telemetry to be delivered-- and that's separate from the login. Considering our sample size of data is in the millions of individual players, I don't think it can really be discounted as statistically inaccurate.

I wonder if there's a link between being tech savvy and old-school.  I specifically disallowed the sharing of the telemtry data.  I wish I hadn't now.  

[Nathan Redgrave]

As a fan of playing as elves, I really would rather not be restricted just to playing as a human. That said, if they're going for more DA2 dialogue-wheel-with-voices, more races means more voice actors... two for each race, to cover both genders, assuming we don't drag in the Qunari, which would bump it up to eight.

[Dave of Canada]

My hatred for elves and their lack of facial hair would scare me off as a potential protagonist.

[warriorrc]

i need 2 play as a dalish or at least a city elf

[andar91]

I think being able to select race would be nice in theory, but it's not something I'm going to cry about if we play as humans (I WOULD protest at playing only a dwarf since I always play mages). If including other race options for the PC means sacrificing other features, I don't think it's worth it, especially when you take the statistics into account (and I see no reason to distrust Bioware's statistics). The benefit-cost ratio just doesn't seem to be in multiple-race-selection's favor (for me, at any rate).

[Nathan Redgrave]

Dave of Canada wrote...

My hatred for elves and their lack of facial hair would scare me off as a potential protagonist.

Facial hair is annoying. It itches a lot when it grows in and you have to waste time every morning shaving it off. Even when you decide to keep the beard you have to waste time trimming it up to look decent unless you want to look like a bloody lumberjack or something.

I wish I was an elf. All the benefits of being a woman without the monthly discomfort that comes with being one, or the childbirth.

...I'm sorry, that was tasteless. Pretend I didn't say anything.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 26 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[ShadyKat]

Almost forgot, a few years ago right before ME2 was release, Bioware showed off some of the player data from ME1. If my memory serves correct, less then 20% of all players, chose to play as female Shepard. Yet the option to play as her wasn't removed from ME2&3.

[Dutchess]

David Gaider wrote...

renjility wrote...
I wonder how accurate those numbers are, because for those achievements to upload you have to allow the game to log you in, which was not obligatory in DAO. You could have had the very strange occurrence of many people who happen to play elves and/or dwarves not bothering to connect their account. :innocent: Just saying.

For DAO you had to specifically disallow telemetry to be delivered-- and that's separate from the login. Considering our sample size of data is in the millions of individual players, I don't think it can really be discounted as statistically inaccurate.

Fair enough. I recall I had to check a box to make my characters show up for my profile picture, but that is again something else than the achievement uploading system? Well, thank you for clarifying. I was curious how big your sample actually is.

[Nathan Redgrave]

ShadyKat wrote...

Almost forgot, a few years ago right before ME2 was release, Bioware showed off some of the player data from ME1. If my memory serves correct, less then 20% of all players, chose to play as female Shepard. Yet the option to play as her wasn't removed from ME2&3.

Removing the option in this case has more to do with how much more work they'd have to do to keep it and still do all the voiced-dialogue-and-semi-established-character-personality thing. They'd also have to record lines from all the different characters who ever said the word "Hawke," you know, because different races have different surnames.

[Parahexavoctal]

As someone with more elf wardens than human ones, I am surprised to hear that they are so poorly represented in the player base overall. It is... difficult to see such a defining part of many of my characters glossed over by the majority.

I won't presume to say that no other amount of customization could make up for the lack of race choice. I can't rightfully speak about that until you, as you say, start showing us what you mean. I do, however, hope that customization is a much bigger point than in DA2. While I was thankful for the ability to pick gender and appearance, and I have Hawkes with all three dominant personalities.. I always felt that Hawke was a little too close to a fixed protagonist for comfort, and that more customization would have helped in this regard.

I'll be waiting to see what the future holds, though I will probably always lament the loss of race choice.

[gabrien]

I disliked not having the option to play an elf, until I started playing and saw what they did to the elf race. I came to like my human. I don't want to be able to choose my race if they use the same crappy elf one. The dwarf one was good, Varric looked awesome imo. I even like the upgraded Qunari and Flemeth. Really really let down when I saw those elves though.. Had to romance the hussy pirate because I couldn't bring myself to romance such a weird looking elf.

[CENIC]

In MotA, there was an elf servant (the one with the sorrowful cheese plate) who had a French accent that sounded no different from any of the Orlesian humans.

Assuming DA3 takes place in Orlais, there is certainly a chance to include race options alongside only two voice actors, as long as the protagonist (regardless of race) grew up with an Orlesian family.

However, I agree with others who have mentioned that the overall plot of the game determines who/what the protagonist can be, and a game centered around concluding the Mage/Templar War may not be the best place to bring back race choice.

[Sharn01]

Unknown_Warrior wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Unknown_Warrior wrote...
Human player characters has proven more profitable, games with forced non-human PC have been linked with a decrease in sales.

It's true. Like that 'Link' series with the elf boy? I think that came out in 1986 and promptly bombed. Pretty sure they never even managed a sequel.

And what about that stupid game staring a hedgehog? I mean, lol, a hedgehog? I bet whomever came up with that is in the poor house now.

I just KNEW people were going to bring up Link after this, and thank you for earning me a buck from a bet I made.
The fact is: do they target the same audience?
In simpler games, a furry/non-human mascot works, as they're easily identifyable and ooze family friendliness (not to mention: the Merch). In mature "one wrong move could mean genocide", they don't work.

Name me some really popular games (that means both good sales figures and good reviews) with a forced non-human PC with a Mature or older rating. Don't worry. I'll wait.

Planescape Torment

[Sharn01]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wouldn't the most cost-effective method of expanding race options with a voiced protagonist be to link accents to location - that would remain fixed across said options - and not race?

Since the latter is, you know, stupid?

Even people with the same accent have different voices.

That's not what I'm getting at.

Only one protagonist can exist in the world at any given time, as a consequence, there will never be two individuals in the universe of a game implementing this hypothetical solution sharing a voice.

However, it would allow a city elf, casteless dwarf, and a human to come from the same place - say, Kirkwall, or wherever - to end up sounding the same way.  In other words, it'd let them re-use the same audio and cost fewer zots.

A race-based accent system not only makes no sense, it would mean recording dialog with appropriate accents for each racial group.

I said pretty much the same thing in many posts that had people argueing that every race choice would need a different voice actor.  Regardless of race the PC is going to have to come from a somewhat similer background, accents are not something you are born with, its something that developes while learning the dialect of where you live, and it can slowly fade or change if you move and immerse yourself in a new area with a different one.

Modifié par Sharn01, 26 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[Sylvianus]

David Gaider wrote...

Joseph627 wrote...
Agree completely, i would have actually like playing as an elf protagonist but not if they would look like the elves from da2.

It's probably worth mentioning that elves were only played by 15% (or less? I don't remember the exact number) of DAO players... as in ever. Meaning only 15% even tried the elven origins on one of their playthroughs.

Which is not to say the new elven look in DA2 would make it more or less popular, if offered... or anything, really, other than that the DAO elves were not inherently popular options to begin with.

I think this is one of those places where the telemetry doesn't lie. Race options are very popular with a smaller group of players-- to them, the expense is totally worth it. But the vast majority of players will only pick humans, even when options are offered. Whether there's any value to those people that such options exist, even if not taken, is the only intangible element in the equation (and should probably not be underestimated).

For me, Dwarves aren't and will never be popular for the masses. This actually happens everywhere, not only for a game like dao, also out there. Even on rpg forums, only a few roleplayers choose to roleplay dwarves. I don't want to describe humanity as materialistic, ( even if I think it's true ) but it's not that fun to play someone small, incongruous.

There will always be people who enjoy the funny things like dwarves, but most people ( I express only an opinion, I'm not trying to establish it as fact ) want to play themself something badass, to be represented by something that gives them at least the impression of strength, beauty or intelligence. Dwarves don't give this impression, except the strengh, but again diminished, ridiculed, by the physical disadvantage.

 I think dwarves should definitely not be an option, personally. We all love dwarves, but do we want to play a dwarf during 40 hours ? I don't think so. Not the same. So already the choice between humans and elves.

Elves in DAO, I think have not been enough in value because of the design. You were right to try to change them, even if I don't like the new design. ( need another though, because they don't look better to me ) They were basically the same as humans, but smaller, less badass, less muscles..

In other words, less interesting. I'm not surprised personally. ( Noble origin did have also the best background to me )

In Skyrim,  differences in the numbers were much smaller about what people pick as race option. Like, 28% nords, 25% dark elves etc etc..

I think that's because the devs have managed to showcase all races, showing them all as badass. So all elves, redguards, nords, etc etc.

an option with a qunari could be successful, even for those who do not know them. ( Muscles, giant, badass )

So basically, I don't think origins don't interest players, but just that DAO ( so the origins given ) didn't succeed to interest them enough to play something else than a human.

In any case, if we can only play a human, I hope we will be able to choose between several backgrounds, which would play a role in the game as well.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 26 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[Great_Horn]

David Gaider wrote...

Joseph627 wrote...
Agree completely, i would have actually like playing as an elf protagonist but not if they would look like the elves from da2.

It's probably worth mentioning that elves were only played by 15% (or less? I don't remember the exact number) of DAO players... as in ever. Meaning only 15% even tried the elven origins on one of their playthroughs.

Which is not to say the new elven look in DA2 would make it more or less popular, if offered... or anything, really, other than that the DAO elves were not inherently popular options to begin with.

I think this is one of those places where the telemetry doesn't lie. Race options are very popular with a smaller group of players-- to them, the expense is totally worth it. But the vast majority of players will only pick humans, even when options are offered. Whether there's any value to those people that such options exist, even if not taken, is the only intangible element in the equation (and should probably not be underestimated).

I´m a bit curious now.
Well, let’s see. We ‘got a statement from February 2010, that Dragon Age: Origins has shipped 3.2 million copies worldwide since its launch in November 2009.
 
So far our N is = 3.200.000
 
So only 480.000 players have shown interest in the both elves origins (15 %). Is there some data about the distribution? I would assume that more player would have picked the Dalish then the city elf origin.

In this particular setting elves are more or less the underdogs. Something I find very interesting, hence other gamers might choose the human Nobel origin, simple by the fact that they probably have a better starting point and are more familiar with this origin. While the human commoner origin is lacking this is only my hypothesis.
 
What about character creation in general? If someone spends at least time to build a certain character, there should be something he or she is attached to. Are human’s player-characters also in the majority?
 
What about the ratio completion of the game vers. race selection?
 
I don’t expect an answer. However every intel is highly appreciated.

Modifié par Great_Horn, 26 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[David Gaider]

Great_Horn wrote...
So only 480.000 players have shown interest in the both elves origins (15 %). Is there some data about the distribution? I would assume that more player would have picked the Dalish then the city elf origin.

Elven mage was the most popular elf origin, by far. Then the city elf, then the dalish. Don't remember the distribution, sorry, just that city elf and dalish were both well behind. All I remember is the dwarf origins: 3% for the dwarven nobles, 2% for the dwarf commoner.

I don't know if you can translate into an actual number based on shipped units, or at what point these figures were arrived at. Either way, it's a pretty notable trend.

Regardless, does having a low percentage of use mean we don't do it? I don't think so-- there's only so far you want to take that argument, lest you arrive at a point where you say that all content is required to be seen by every player. At that point you have no choices... and, like I said, there's a certain value to players that choices exist even if they aren't taken. So it's good to notice the trend, if not to have the trend always dictate response.

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[DadeLeviathan]

I really hope that Bioware doesn't stay with one race going forward.

For me, that was one of the things that made DA:O so good. Of course the obvious choice to go with if they want to stay with one race is Human. That is easier to grasp onto for most people. Also you have the problem with a voiced protagonist (which I believe they said they will not go back from). It gets hard to get immersed when your elf, dwarf, human, etc, all speak with the same voice/accent.

Of course if they do stay with just Humans, I hope that they make DA3 a worthy successor to the Dragon Age franchise. While DA2 was good, it was not a worthy successor. They cut many things and made many mistakes, in my opinion, that made the came less than its predecessor. A sequel should be as good if not better than its predecessor. 

Modifié par DadeLeviathan, 26 mars 2012 - 11:09 .

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
At that point you have no choices... and, like I said, there's a certain value to players that choices exist even if they aren't taken. So it's good to notice the trend, if not to have the trend always dictate response.

I completely, totally, 100% agree with this statement.

In so many games its nice to know that fully fleshed out options and alternatives exist, even if you don't end up using them. It provides an incredible amount of perceived value to the game IMO. So something like the multiple Origin stories in DAO or Iorveth vs. Roche's path in The Witcher 2 or the variations in the story in Alpha Protocol or the various factions you can side with in New Vegas or the freedom of character creation and gameplay in Skyrim  all make those games worth keeping around even if I don't play that content right away. Because it is unique, fully fleshed out content thats available should I want to play it.

Which is different than something like my experience with ME2 or ME3 where the game felt unique the first time through. However, thinking things would be significantly different a second time through and doing different things only to see things play out the same way no matter what... it cheapens the value I place on the game going forward. Its not providing value as a single player experience knowing that most of the consequences to your choices were really illusions.

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[Great_Horn]

David Gaider wrote...

Great_Horn wrote...
So only 480.000 players have shown interest in the both elves origins (15 %). Is there some data about the distribution? I would assume that more player would have picked the Dalish then the city elf origin.

Elven mage was the most popular elf origin, by far. Then the city elf, then the dalish. Don't remember the distribution, sorry, just that city elf and dalish were both well behind. All I remember is the dwarf origins: 3% for the dwarven nobles, 2% for the dwarf commoner.

I don't know if you can translate into an actual number based on shipped units, or at what point these figures were arrived at. Either way, it's a pretty notable trend.

Regardless, does having a low percentage of use mean we don't do it? I don't think so-- there's only so far you want to take that argument, lest you arrive at a point where you say that all content is required to be seen by every player. At that point you have no choices... and, like I said, there's a certain value to players that choices exist even if they aren't taken. So it's good to notice the trend, if not to have the trend always dictate response.

Thanks a lot. I didn’t know this numbers. I was only driven by curiosity. I highly appreciate the respond.


Edit: Only 5 % for the dwarfs. Unbelievable. And I thought It was similar to the elves.   

Modifié par Great_Horn, 26 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[element eater]

David Gaider wrote..
There's no inherent benefit to race selection itself insofar as it being an RPG goes, so long as there are customization options (either in the story or in chargen)-- whether there's enough such options is really the trick, and on that front we'll be talking more once we have stuff to show.

this sounds deppresingly like we arent going to have race selection in the new game and given that a Voiced protagonist is also an unwanted certantity. I think DA2 is looking to mark the end of my interest in the franchise

for me atleast the freedom i receive to play as my own character is what got me into rpgs and the race selection has always been a big part of that and is one of the main reasons DAO apealed to me in the first place .
Hawke(human,va,set backround,poor cc,lack of dialogue) was the biggest reason i didnt enjoy da2 deaspite alot of other issues

Modifié par element eater, 26 mars 2012 - 11:43 .

[Worrywort]

David Gaider wrote...
All I remember is the dwarf origins: 3% for the dwarven nobles, 2% for the dwarf commoner.

That is really unfortunate because imo the dwarf commoner origin is the best by far. I absolutely love the part where the dwarf commoner takes of Everd's helmet and shows everyone is the arena that a castless dwarf bested them all.