314 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

Maria Caliban wrote...

They work if people who play multiple races are statistically insignificant and the numbers are rounded. I doubt the split is exactly 80/15/5.

That said, yes, it's possible that David is misremembering or misstating the numbers themselves.

What I doubt, and what I think some people hope for, is that BioWare got the numbers wrong. That they gathered information from a million+ users and then had people with no statistical background analyze it. Or that they only gathered information from 80% of their consumer base, but that's not 100% so they can't draw any accurate information from the data.

I think rather that he attempted to... simplify... the data because he wanted to use a very small portion of it in his post to make his point (that being that in DAO elves were not a popular race), without having the thread turn into a statistical issue, which it unfortunately did.

People need to consider that just because the numbers show Bioware a specific thing, that doesn't mean they will design their games based solely around that information. Maria Caliban's earlier post about the small portion of players who complete the romances (if accurate) is a perfect example. Bioware wants their games to have these romance options, so they design them that way, even though a small portion of players even see the content.

Urthemiel Cousland wrote...

I have a feeling bioware will still stick us with humans and just make us pick which class. Like it will probably be something like Mage, Templar, are Seeker.

I don't see why they would deviate from the same three classes of mage, warrior, and rogue just because DA3's story revolves more around the mage/templar issue. As we know, currently, templar is a spec that warriors can take. Seeker can be treated in the same way, although I was under the impression that they were more of an organization, rather than a type of soldier, as templars.

tmp7704 wrote...

Unlike native Kirkwall residents who spend their years waiting for audience and kicking walls.

Rofl... don't forget the guy who wonders if the Viscount remembered to eat today.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 28 mars 2012 - 11:07 .

[Imrahil_]

Mr Fixit wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I'm not gonna lie, it did come off as passive-aggressive snark.

And what's worse, he doesn't even realize it.

Really?  I thought I was quite direct.  I stated my criticism clearly.  I believe Bioware is misinterpreting their data.

Passive-aggressive, in my book, is stuff like implying I didn't read the thread, or tossing out a statistic & claiming you're not interpreting it in any way, or assigning ulterior motives to people without coming right out & saying it, or talking about someone in the third person, without addressing them directly.

If you'd read the thread, you'd clearly agree with me, amirite? 

Modifié par Imrahil_, 28 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[cubanjaze]

I hope in DA3 your a qunari. (Hopefully sten) Leading a massive war against the hero of ferelden and hawk and his crew this way we get to tie in both DAO and DA2. Sten mentioned hopefully meeting the hero on the battlefield someday; and we all know what hawk went through with the qunari in DA2. So why not bring everybody back in a massive war. It sounds like a good time to me. Also i'd like more character customization armor weapons ect. Like in DAO

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Imrahil_ wrote...
Really?  I thought I was quite direct.  I stated my criticism clearly.  I believe Bioware is misinterpreting their data.

Passive-aggressive, in my book, is stuff like implying I didn't read the thread, or tossing out a statistic & claiming you're not interpreting it in any way, or assigning ulterior motives to people without coming right out & saying it, or talking about someone in the third person, without addressing them directly.

If you'd read the thread, you'd clearly agree with me, amirite? 

Er. You were being confrontational and hostile, but trying to mask it with a 'Just kidding' and 'no harm done' remarks. Instead of saying you think they're misinterpreting their data, which would have been the direct method, you went with a sneering sarcasm that attacked Gaider's contributions to this thread and others.

In effect, you said, "Can't you see what a two-faced jerk you are," then followed up with, "LoL, only teasing :)".

So, yes, you were being passive-aggressive. Also quite rude.

[Dutchess]

Imrahil_ wrote...

Mr Fixit wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I'm not gonna lie, it did come off as passive-aggressive snark.

And what's worse, he doesn't even realize it.

Really?  I thought I was quite direct.  I stated my criticism clearly.  I believe Bioware is misinterpreting their data.

Passive-aggressive, in my book, is stuff like implying I didn't read the thread, or tossing out a statistic & claiming you're not interpreting it in any way, or assigning ulterior motives to people without coming right out & saying it, or talking about someone in the third person, without addressing them directly.

If you'd read the thread, you'd clearly agree with me, amirite? 

Come on, your remarks about investing in a mirror and mockingly quoting what "this guy" has said were not that nice, and didn't contribute to any discussion, certainly not about race selection.

[ICevoL]

I did miss being able to play an elf in DA2 -- I was thisclose to cancelling my pre-order when I found out the player was restricted to human-only, but I'm glad I didn't. Based on the story being told (the constraints imposed by DA2's short development schedule played a part as well, I'd wager), having a more set protagonist than DAO made sense.

Still, if the story permits it, I'd love to have race selection (particularly elves) back for DA3. One request though (if Mr. Gaider or another BlueName would be so kind as to pass this on to the design group) -- if the PC is able to be elven in DA3, please let them wear shoes!  I remember finding it extremely distracting that Fenris and Merrill were tromping around through Maker-knows-what in their bare feet, not to mention if a melee enemy with massive boots would have stomped on their toes...

Modifié par ICevoL, 28 mars 2012 - 12:54 .

[David Gaider]

BobSmith101 wrote...
One thing I would like to know about the stats. Are they really because people are choosing to be something, or because they are just taking the default option presented ? If you changed the default option to Elf , would there be a lot more people playing elves ?

Soldier is by far the most popular class in ME3 . It's also the class that Shepard defaults to if you choose quick start.Is that a coincidence ? Or are people just taking the easy option as presented ?

We can't really know the answer to this... which is why we look upon telemetry with a critical eye. It can be helpful information to see the trends, but you never want to treat them as gospel as there's bound to be more behind what you're seeing than numbers will tell on their own. It's more indicative of the end results, as opposed to the cause.

[David Gaider]

nightscrawl wrote...
Maria Caliban's earlier post about the small portion of players who complete the romances (if accurate) is a perfect example. Bioware wants their games to have these romance options, so they design them that way, even though a small portion of players even see the content.

This is true. We still put an ending into the game, for instance, despite how few players actually see it.

[David Gaider]

ICevoL wrote...
if the PC is able to be elven in DA3, please let them wear shoes!  I remember finding it extremely distracting that Fenris and Merrill were tromping around through Maker-knows-what in their bare feet, not to mention if a melee enemy with massive boots would have stomped on their toes...

I think I can safely say that this is a battle I appear to be winning.

[Dutchess]

David Gaider wrote...

ICevoL wrote...
if the PC is able to be elven in DA3, please let them wear shoes!  I remember finding it extremely distracting that Fenris and Merrill were tromping around through Maker-knows-what in their bare feet, not to mention if a melee enemy with massive boots would have stomped on their toes...

I think I can safely say that this is a battle I appear to be winning.

There's a battle about elves' shoewear or lack thereof among the developers?

[David Gaider]

renjility wrote...
There's a battle about elves' shoewear or lack thereof among the developers?

If you can take a look at the forums and see how a bunch of people, all of whom feel passionate about the same thing, disagree with each other vociferously on even the most minor aspects of the game... then you might begin to grasp how a bunch of developers, who are all geeks and who have WAY more personal stake in the outcome, might bicker endlessly over just about everything.

My "Laws of Naming Stuff" didn't come from the forums, after all. They're rules I made to prevent meetings from descending into chaos. The worst arguments occur over the things that are essentially the most aesthetic in nature.

Modifié par David Gaider, 28 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[Pzykozis]

David Gaider wrote...

renjility wrote...
There's a battle about elves' shoewear or lack thereof among the developers?

If you can take a look at the forums and see how a bunch of people, all of whom feel passionate about the same thing, disagree with each other vociferously on even the most minor aspects of the game... then you might begin to grasp how a bunch of developers, who are all geeks and who have WAY more personal stake in the outcome, might bicker endlessly over just about everything.

My "Laws of Naming Stuff" didn't come from the forums, after all. They're rules I made to prevent meetings from descending into chaos. The worst arguments occur over the things that are essentially the most aesthetic in nature.

Hmm '"Laws of Naming stuff"' sounds intriguing... never heard that before...

You do kind of leave me with this crazy zoo like picture of people chaotically waving footwear in the air screaming or otherwise shaking their heads, with Darrah just sitting on a throne like some father figure... time for the pills again I think.

[Dutchess]

David Gaider wrote...

If you can take a look at the forums and see how a bunch of people, all of whom feel passionate about the same thing, disagree with each other vociferously on even the most minor aspects of the game... then you might begin to grasp how a bunch of developers, who are all geeks and who have WAY more personal stake in the outcome, might bicker endlessly over just about everything.

My "Laws of Naming Stuff" didn't come from the forums, after all. They're rules I made to prevent meetings from descending into chaos. The worst arguments occur over the things that are essentially the most aesthetic in nature.

Oh my, you're saying it's actually worse among developers than fans? Good luck in your battles. I imagine Zevran would have been sorely put out if he had not been allowed to wear his leather boots in DAO. Future elves have the same right, haha.

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider wrote...

This is true. We still put an ending into the game, for instance, despite how few players actually see it. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Haha... "Well only 49% of players ever even finish our games, and the majority is what's important, so we didn't bother making an ending for the next one."

David Gaider wrote...

ICevoL wrote...
if the PC is able to be elven in DA3, please let them wear shoes!  I remember finding it extremely distracting that Fenris and Merrill were tromping around through Maker-knows-what in their bare feet, not to mention if a melee enemy with massive boots would have stomped on their toes...

I think I can safely say that this is a battle I appear to be winning.

I think that the no-shoe thing should have been handled as a cultural thing, rather than a race thing. I can see the Dalish not wearing shoes, even if it seems odd or not useful. But I don't see why that would also apply to the alienage elves, or even Fenris who was a Tivinter slave from a young age. There is some amusing banter from Merrill wishing that she had worn some shoes when you are in a certain location, so it's not like they can't see the benefit of them XD. I must admit, I did like seeing Fenris's markings on his feet though...

Modifié par nightscrawl, 28 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[JeeWeeJ]

David Gaider wrote...

renjility wrote...
There's a battle about elves' shoewear or lack thereof among the developers?

If you can take a look at the forums and see how a bunch of people, all of whom feel passionate about the same thing, disagree with each other vociferously on even the most minor aspects of the game... then you might begin to grasp how a bunch of developers, who are all geeks and who have WAY more personal stake in the outcome, might bicker endlessly over just about everything.

My "Laws of Naming Stuff" didn't come from the forums, after all. They're rules I made to prevent meetings from descending into chaos. The worst arguments occur over the things that are essentially the most aesthetic in nature.

Wait...David...are you suggesting that devs are people too???  Who have arguments and such? Not evil creatures of darkness??

Anyway, ontopic, I'd love to see different player races, but, with the focus on a voiced PC, I just don't see it happen. Dwarves and Elves have a very different dialect compared to humans in the DA games we've seen..and I don't see Bioware doing 6 different voices(which is why I love a silent PC so much, leaves more choice regarding player race (or at least makes it easier to implement))

Modifié par JeeWeeJ, 28 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[Dutchess]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Anyway, ontopic, I'd love to see different player races, but, with the focus on a voiced PC, I just don´t see it happen. Dwarves and Elves have a very different dialect compared to humans in the DA games we´ve seen..and I don´t see Bioware doing 6 different voices(which is why I love a silent PC so much, leaves more choice regarding player race (or at least makes it easier to implement))

I don't see the need for different voice actors for different races. Sure, it would add to the diversity, but I wouldn't mind if my human and elf had the same voice. Especially city elves and surface dwarves seem to have adopted the human ways of speaking. Dwarves only sound different when they throw in a remark about nugs and something with sod it.

[yeldarbnotned]

If we don't have the chance to play as multiple races, what are the chances of having different body sizes for a human character?

[Xeyska]

yeldarbnotned wrote...

If we don't have the chance to play as multiple races, what are the chances of having different body sizes for a human character?

Very low chances.

[nightscrawl]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Anyway, ontopic, I'd love to see different player races, but, with the focus on a voiced PC, I just don´t see it happen. Dwarves and Elves have a very different dialect compared to humans in the DA games we´ve seen..and I don´t see Bioware doing 6 different voices(which is why I love a silent PC so much, leaves more choice regarding player race (or at least makes it easier to implement))

Sadly, neither do I. Some actors are better at it than others though. Nicholas Boulton (according to IMDb - which can be wrong on accasion, esp with bios) who did male Hawke also did Xenon the Antiquarian. That floored me when I read it. I loved that he also did Malcom Hawke in Legacy. Older, more mature, PC Hawke but different, it was perfect. On the other hand, Desmond Askew who played Jowan in DAO along with a couple dozen other voices, sounded pretty much the same as all of them.

[JeeWeeJ]

renjility wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...
*stuff*

I don't see the need for different voice actors for different races. Sure, it would add to the diversity, but I wouldn't mind if my human and elf had the same voice. Especially city elves and surface dwarves seem to have adopted the human ways of speaking. Dwarves only sound different when they throw in a remark about nugs and something with sod it.

Well, everyone ofcourse has his/her own preferences on this, but I'd be pretty dissapointed if I get a dwarf that has a british/american accent. The way I've got to know dwarves is that they sound scottish! That's what makes them stand out from the other races. Otherwise, IMHO, they'd just be...small, fatty and beardy humans.. 

[Dutchess]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

renjility wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...
*stuff*

I don't see the need for different voice actors for different races. Sure, it would add to the diversity, but I wouldn't mind if my human and elf had the same voice. Especially city elves and surface dwarves seem to have adopted the human ways of speaking. Dwarves only sound different when they throw in a remark about nugs and something with sod it.

Well, everyone ofcourse has his/her own preferences on this, but I'd be pretty dissapointed if I get a dwarf that has a british/american accent. The way I've got to know dwarves is that they sound scottish! That's what makes them stand out from the other races. Otherwise, IMHO, they'd just be...small, fatty and beardy humans.. 

Do they sound Scottish? I can't say I have noticed much difference between accents of dwarves or humans. This could partially be due to the fact that English is not my native language, so perhaps I am missing subtle differences (of course I noticed the accents of Leliana, Zevran or the Dalish of DA2). Either way, I haven't heard anything special when I listened to lord Harrowmond, or Dagna, or Ruck.

[Pzykozis]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Well, everyone ofcourse has his/her own preferences on this, but I'd be pretty dissapointed if I get a dwarf that has a british/american accent. The way I've got to know dwarves is that they sound scottish! That's what makes them stand out from the other races. Otherwise, IMHO, they'd just be...small, fatty and beardy humans.. 

That's odd because the dwarves in DA so far have been american... Wouldn't mind hearing more local twangs including a shift from american dwarves to scottish though. I'd say they should try and avoid amalgamating welsh and irish into a single group of people again... that was aurally confusing.

Also it's not fat its pure muscle!

[JeeWeeJ]

Pzykozis wrote...

That's odd because the dwarves in DA so far have been american... Wouldn't mind hearing more local twangs including a shift from american dwarves to scottish though. I'd say they should try and avoid amalgamating welsh and irish into a single group of people again... that was aurally confusing.

American?? Really?? Hmm, then my memory of dwarves must be faulty then! I stand corrected! (has been quite some time since I last played a DA game...) But still, they did have they own -distinguisable- accent, and I think it would be a petty to drop that, just so we can play dwarves. 

Pzykozis wrote... 
Also it's not fat its pure muscle! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] 

 
I lolled 

[ICevoL]

David Gaider wrote...

ICevoL wrote...
if the PC is able to be elven in DA3, please let them wear shoes!  I remember finding it extremely distracting that Fenris and Merrill were tromping around through Maker-knows-what in their bare feet, not to mention if a melee enemy with massive boots would have stomped on their toes...

I think I can safely say that this is a battle I appear to be winning.

This makes me VERY happy!!!  Thank you, David -- keep fighting the good fight

[Pzykozis]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

That's odd because the dwarves in DA so far have been american... Wouldn't mind hearing more local twangs including a shift from american dwarves to scottish though. I'd say they should try and avoid amalgamating welsh and irish into a single group of people again... that was aurally confusing.

American?? Really?? Hmm, then my memory of dwarves must be faulty then! I stand corrected! (has been quite some time since I last played a DA game...) But still, they did have they own -distinguisable- accent, and I think it would be a petty to drop that, just so we can play dwarves. 

Pzykozis wrote... 
Also it's not fat its pure muscle! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] 

 
I lolled 

To be fair, dwarves areusually portrayed with a Scottish accent for my angle I'd say like others have suggested that instead of having them come from their actual areas instead it'd be easier and perhaps more likely for them to have a common origination, so that the voice would make more sense but whilst still retaining the option Kind of how this used to be handled either the Orphan route or because I believe it works in the DA lore the halfbreed/fullblood elven (since Elven genes are recessive), perhaps you lose something in the process of having a fixed origin but whilst I loved the origins I somewhat wish the differentiation came mid-game or towards the end rather than at the start, but thats a different topic.

Hah I'm only half joking, Utha the crazy dwarven monk she is/was would beat darkspawn to death with no weapon. Dwarves are strong part of the reason I love the hairy adorable fellows they are.