218 réponses à ce sujet

[jarms48]

Arl Raylen wrote...

Hmm well you know much more about the 40k universe than I do but seeing as the Reapers were able to indoctrinate such strong minded people such as Saren and The Illusive Man I can see them at least getting a few sleeper agents within the Warhammer Races.

Now, whether or not this proves to be effective at all is the real question. Because from what I've seen the Reapers pale in comparison militarily to anything in that verse.

I do think that they could certainly indoctrinate people from the W40K universe but the questions could those that are resistant or touched by the warp be resistant to indoctrination as well. But even if they were to indoctrinate a high ranking military figure, the odds of actually affecting the 40K verse is very slim, this is a universe constantly at war, with rebellions being put down everyday, human lives and ammunition being spent at an almost equal rate. Millions die so others can merely survive another day, faster than light travel is hardly reliable and there are even chances of being devoured by demons during transit.

Modifié par jarms48, 26 mars 2012 - 06:57 .

[jarms48]

Arl Raylen wrote...

I'm dipping deep into lore I don't quite understand, but what if the guy on the Golden Throne (the Emperor?) was indoctrinated? That beacon they use to direct FTL would be disabled, and then the Reapers would have a marginally better chance of taking on their Empire.

Wouldn't work the Emperor on the Golden Throne is a corpse only sustained by the souls of a thousand pskers a day.

[Crasher027]

I'm dipping deep into lore I don't quite understand, but what if the guy on the Golden Throne (the Emperor?) was indoctrinated? That beacon they use to direct FTL would be disabled, and then the Reapers would have a marginally better chance of taking on their Empire.

The Golden Throne's importance from what I understand reading various novels is generally 'overestimated'. Some navigators can slip through the warp without use of the astronomicon. Though that manner of blow would be significant in and of itself, but it says nothing of the unspoken mythos, in that if the Emperor dies, he could ascend and become a being of impossible power.

Getting past that though, Terra, and the solar system are very, very well defended. Pointlessly so even. Everything ranging from being a hub of some of the most important naval affairs, one of the core production lines of some of the most ancient ships, titans and technologies (Mars) and the moon, which has basically been transformed into a gigantic gun battery.



Getting beyond that, even if the reapers did subvert important military leaders, this happens as a part of the fluff of 40k. It's nothing special in that universe, nor does it result in crippling blows. Entire systems are written about being sacked and destroyed, the events are recorded, heroically, reluctantly or reflectively... Then forgotten. It's part of the reason that throwing almost anything against the Imperium is generally considered a lost cause in Internet arguments. Because of the futility of the universe itself, Warhammer 40k is immensely grimdark and lovecraftian, the themes of greater threats to all life are just accepted as a part of its existence.

[ReaperMAC]

Arl Raylen wrote...

I'm dipping deep into lore I don't quite understand, but what if the guy on the Golden Throne (the Emperor?) was indoctrinated? That beacon they use to direct FTL would be disabled, and then the Reapers would have a marginally better chance of taking on their Empire.

The God-Emperor Indoctrinated? One of the most powerful psykers in the entire universe indoctrinated?! :lol:

Given that he is located in the HEART of the Imperium, in the most heavily defended Segmentae in the entire galaxy, it would be almost impossible to reach him. Say the Reapers were to be able to get a foothold in Segmentum Solar, they would have to try to get pass Battlefleet Solar and the combined forces of the Adeptus Mechanicus of Mars. Say they get passed that, they would have to get passed the immense defenses of Terra (which is bascially a city planet), they still have to contend with the Adeptus Custodes, as well as Planetary Defense Forces to even reach the Throne Room. And even then.... indoctronation has a very, very, very, very, very, very (x1000000) slim chance of working. 

The forces of Chaos have not gotten close to the Emperor since the end of the Horus Heresy, so I doubt the Reapers have a good shot either. The Emperor of Man is essentially the most important (corpse) figure in the Imperium of Man, and they aren't giving him up without a fight.

Modifié par ReaperMAC, 26 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[thesnake777]

The Reapers would be back handed by the might of the Imperial Guard. They are the Emperors Hammer, and I would honestly love to see the reapers fight it out with a couple space marine chapters....
I mean thats not even including them running into any of the other factions in the 40K universe....like the Tau...Chaos forces......Tyranids....Eldar..Dark Eldar......Orks......seriously The Reapers would get slapped around and sent home crying....
"We Are the Harbinger of you-" "For The Emperor!!!" "what I wasn't finish-"*Boom*
"We do this every day"

[Draconis6666]

Arl Raylen wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Arl Raylen wrote...

jarms48 wrote...

Arl Raylen wrote...

The Reapers are pretty intelligent though. If they sent a vanguard into the 40k Universe, do you think they could analyze some of their weapons and technology and make it for themselves?

Honestly no, I don't see them doing this at all, no where I have read that they could and would do this.

Arl Raylen wrote...

Plus indoctrination could easily get the insectoid races as well as Orks on their side if they are careful about it. All they need is to convince one leader that their cause is a righteous one.

Now this I can see happening but there begs a question, could the Orks inbuilt psychic abilities resist the attempts of indoctrination? Would the Orks merely attack the vessel?

And indoctrination itself I see having little effect on the 40k Galaxy, the Imperium have put up numerous laws to stop the spread of corruption. The separation of the Imperial Army, the Codex Astarties, all branches of the Inquisition etc.

Hmm well you know much more about the 40k universe than I do but seeing as the Reapers were able to indoctrinate such strong minded people such as Saren and The Illusive Man I can see them at least getting a few sleeper agents within the Warhammer Races.

Now, whether or not this proves to be effective at all is the real question. Because from what I've seen the Reapers pale in comparison militarily to anything in that verse.

Possible but the problem with sleeper agents is that at least in the Imperium NO ONE is above suspicion, everyone is constantly watched by everyone else and everyone expects everyone else to possibly be a traitor.

I'm dipping deep into lore I don't quite understand, but what if the guy on the Golden Throne (the Emperor?) was indoctrinated? That beacon they use to direct FTL would be disabled, and then the Reapers would have a marginally better chance of taking on their Empire.

But how would they indoctrinate him, indoctrination requires proximity. The Emperor is sealed away inside his palace the size of a city inside a room thats itself large enough for entire armies including titans to stand in that no one is ever allowed into except the adeptus costodes. Beyond that the emperor's mind is so powerful that it can utterly erase people from existence. His sheer force of will manages to guide ships through the warp even though his body is essentialy dead. I'm not saying you're wrong and that they couldnt, but based on how some just average humans in ME are resistant to its effects and can fight against it you can see where im going with the unlikelyness.

[thesnake777]

And guys the inquisition deals with indoctrination every day....seriously in the 40K Universe The Reapers are not special

[Draconis6666]

thesnake777 wrote...

And guys the inquisition deals with indoctrination every day....seriously in the 40K Universe The Reapers are not special

Exactly and the forces of chaos are far more insidious at what is effectively indoctrination than the Reapers ever have shown themselves to be.

[Devils Preists]

Wave 1

The Reaper Fleet vs. 21st Century Humanity as we know it. The world has a 50 year warning (beginning in 2012) of the coming Reaper invasion in order to prepare. The warning is sent in a way that world leaders are entirely convinced that this invasion will occur, and they begin making the necessary arrangements immediately.

-Reapers Obviously
Wave 2

The Reaper Fleet vs. The UNSC of Halo Lore. The UNSC was nearly crushed by the Covenant...can they withstand the Reapers? They get no warning; the invasion occurs right as the UNSC is at the height of its power.

-This one could go either way, will not say anything on it.
Wave 3

The Reaper Fleet vs. The Covenant of Halo Lore. The Covenant are defeated by the UNSC due to internal conflict, but by themselves their technology is impressive. They are attacked at the height of their power, before discovering any humans.

Covenant Victory: DEW's on their ships and the fact that insanly high powered MACs needed several shots to take even the smallest Covenant ship down... doesn't bode well for the Reapers.
Wave 4

The Reaper Fleet vs. The full force of the Prothean Empire. Assume the cycle before the Protheans was able to shut down the Keeper signal and they have the same oppurtunity to fight back as Shep's cycle does. Will their advanced technology allow them to succeed in conventional warfare against the Reapers?

-Reaper Victory

Wave 5

The Reaper Fleet vs. The Star Wars galaxy. The Reapers come across the SW galaxy and see it as a place where organic life has run rampant; and see it as fit for their cycle of destruction. Can they contend with such an advanced organic society?
 
- Starwars Victory. DEW's can bypass Kinetic Barriers and as seen in ME1 they clearly do not have very much armor underneath the Kinetic barrier. Even if that doesn't mean anything considering the insanity of SW's weapons.

Wave 6

The Reaper Fleet vs. The combined fleets of Shepard's cycle and the Prothean cycle. Can this group finally beat the Reapers conventionally?

I say Shep and Protheans fleets. Personal Bias and because of ingame evidence provided.

For the final two waves. Pfft. Clearly War hammer and Star Trek both defeat the Reapers. Again Startrek utilizes weapons that, from what I know, use intense heat. Such is able to effectivly bypass Kinetic barriers..

And Warhammer is just ... insane.. I've never played the series and I know for a fact that SW's would be decimated. Does not leave much hope for our favorite machine Faction the Reapers..

Forerunners: (Not enough Data Available however we do know about their poor containment protocols when it comes to the Flood.)

[thesnake777]

Draconis6666 wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

And guys the inquisition deals with indoctrination every day....seriously in the 40K Universe The Reapers are not special

Exactly and the forces of chaos are far more insidious at what is effectively indoctrination than the Reapers ever have shown themselves to be.

Yea thats not even mentioning genestealer cults or the mutants that pop up.

[mooney6023]

Warrior Craess wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

jarms48 wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

Wave 8: The United Federation of Planets. I mean, are the Reapers that much worse than the Borg?

Star Trek? I don't see them faring as well as the Mass Effect Galaxy and the Borg medicore.

Well, the Borg cubes and spheres seemed to be on par with reapers in size.  But I have know idea what the stopping power of a phaser or photon torpedo is comparitively.

The real question is.  Could the Royal Manticorian Navy and Honor Harrington take them out in wave 9?

Yay someone else was thinking this.  I think with it's latest weaponry, that the RMN (royal manticoran navy) crushes the reapers.  The reapers Energy weapons would be practically useless against the  Gravity fields of the Honorverse ships.  Which isn't counting that unholy long stand of range that the RMN has with their new  Missiles (which deliver Laser warhears using gravity lences to focus Nuclear explosions into lasers. )

Yeah the RMN would barely pause, and they would tell jokes about the lack of reaper discipline and their inability to fight in a tight formation. 

Yep, RMN or Havenite forces even in their decimated states at the end of "A Rising Thunder" would simply wipe the floor with the Reapers.  And all using straight up speculative science fiction, no space magic involved. 

Warhammer 40k and Star Wars are both "Space Fantasy" and become pretty hard to quantify against Mass Effect.

Mass Effect, Halo, and Honorverse are all military science fiction to some extent and attempt to stay grounded in speculative science, although they all have their pseudo science (gravity wedges, eezo based abilities and tech, whatever the heck the covenant is using, various FTL solutions).  

Star Trek, and I'm the one who brought it up, is unfortunately not grounded in good speculative science either.

 I certainly think that the RMN could wipe the floor with any Halo Fleet, Reapers or 21st Century Earth.  Heck, they would probably tear the crap out of Star Wars, Warhammer 40k or Star Trek fleets too.  Dropping kinetic warheads on planets at .99c is a lot cheaper and just as deadly as the Death Star.

Heck, the MESA alignment seems to be playing around with the beginnings of their own form of indoctrination using nanomachines.  If Shepard had a Treecat (s)he'd know whether someone was indoctrinated right away.

Now maybe we should throw John Ringo's Posleen forces against the Reaper ground forces for fun.

[fish of doom]

here's another one: reapers vs. the shivans from the freespace universe

[Arl Raylen]

Devils Preists wrote...


Covenant Victory: DEW's on their ships and the fact that insanly high powered MACs needed several shots to take even the smallest Covenant ship down... doesn't bode well for the Reapers.
Wave 4

If the Covenant's shields proved to be too much for the Reaper's main guns (which might not be the case, the codex says the ferrofluid beam is fired at a significant portion of the speed of light, which I believe is faster than even Super MAC cannons), then I think the Covenant's downfall would be their stupidity.

I mean, they were outsmarted by a couple human scientists and an A.I. The Reapers would probably indoctrainate them right off the bat by convincing them that they could improve their technology or something (because all the Covenant do is steal other races tech).

[gotthammer]

re: Honorverse
Argh! Spoilers!
(haven't reached the most recent book yet)
(I only have myself to blame, tho'...'cause I clicked the link to the Battle stats for that one )

Still, big as those numbers of SD(P)s are (and the massive volume of missiles they can fire), there's one setting I think could 'handle' the Honorverse navies: Legend of the Galactic Heroes (so, yeah, it's Japanese in origin, so, like WH40k, the SCALE is kinda 'epic', to put it mildly)
I think standard 'artillery'/stand-off range for the beam weapons in LoGH is around 90 million kilometers, if memory serves (they have missiles, too, but my guess is that the ECM/ECCM/etc. makes them too unreliable), and the biggest engagement, Amlitzer, had around 100,000 ships involved (it's kinda like Napoleonic-era ground warfare, where each ship is kinda like a single infantryman firing in a volley, but they still have broadside weapons).
A Reaper could probably make short work of a single ship (largest warship is under a kilometer, I think), but each fleet has around 10k ships, if memory serves...

[Valk72]

The reaper against the W40k universe? That would not even be fight! Hell the imperial navy alone would just blast the reaper into oblivion! The only universe which i think could put a fight against the W40k universe is the star wars universe...

[mooney6023]

gotthammer wrote...

re: Honorverse
Argh! Spoilers!
(haven't reached the most recent book yet)
(I only have myself to blame, tho'...'cause I clicked the link to the Battle stats for that one )

Still, big as those numbers of SD(P)s are (and the massive volume of missiles they can fire), there's one setting I think could 'handle' the Honorverse navies: Legend of the Galactic Heroes (so, yeah, it's Japanese in origin, so, like WH40k, the SCALE is kinda 'epic', to put it mildly)
I think standard 'artillery'/stand-off range for the beam weapons in LoGH is around 90 million kilometers, if memory serves (they have missiles, too, but my guess is that the ECM/ECCM/etc. makes them too unreliable), and the biggest engagement, Amlitzer, had around 100,000 ships involved (it's kinda like Napoleonic-era ground warfare, where each ship is kinda like a single infantryman firing in a volley, but they still have broadside weapons).
A Reaper could probably make short work of a single ship (largest warship is under a kilometer, I think), but each fleet has around 10k ships, if memory serves...

LoGH, the most awsome direct to video series ever created (anime or not).  Props for bringing it up.  

[Asnine112]

Crasher027 wrote...

I'm dipping deep into lore I don't quite understand, but what if the guy on the Golden Throne (the Emperor?) was indoctrinated? That beacon they use to direct FTL would be disabled, and then the Reapers would have a marginally better chance of taking on their Empire.

The Golden Throne's importance from what I understand reading various novels is generally 'overestimated'. Some navigators can slip through the warp without use of the astronomicon. Though that manner of blow would be significant in and of itself, but it says nothing of the unspoken mythos, in that if the Emperor dies, he could ascend and become a being of impossible power.

Getting past that though, Terra, and the solar system are very, very well defended. Pointlessly so even. Everything ranging from being a hub of some of the most important naval affairs, one of the core production lines of some of the most ancient ships, titans and technologies (Mars) and the moon, which has basically been transformed into a gigantic gun battery.



Getting beyond that, even if the reapers did subvert important military leaders, this happens as a part of the fluff of 40k. It's nothing special in that universe, nor does it result in crippling blows. Entire systems are written about being sacked and destroyed, the events are recorded, heroically, reluctantly or reflectively... Then forgotten. It's part of the reason that throwing almost anything against the Imperium is generally considered a lost cause in Internet arguments. Because of the futility of the universe itself, Warhammer 40k is immensely grimdark and lovecraftian, the themes of greater threats to all life are just accepted as a part of its existence.

Tell that to the Necrons

[Subject9x]

wave 10: mechwarrior
ground force - lulwhut ground force? battlemechs, armored infantry, coordinated and integrated artillery (cannot stress that enough) oh and did I mention battlemechs?

navy:

let's see, orbital defense cannons are utilized constantly, most core worlds have been invaded so they know how to and are equipped to counter orbital invasions. Most naval encounters consider the 2-3km range as 'close quarters' and can fight accurately at 5-8km. An overlord dropship on firepower alone could overwhelm a reaper destroyer to say nothing of Naval PPC's and Rail Guns

finally an existential threat like this would unite the Great Houses AND the Clans AND Comstar.

[Stanley Woo]

No vs. threads, please.

End of line.