425 réponses à ce sujet

[Vhalkyrie]

For decades game developers have been trying to find how to increase their market share to women. Mass Effect has a pretty decent female fan base that many other game developers envy. They have been able to attract female gamers with:

1) Female protagonist is not a overly sexualized - she wears armor, not chainmail bikinis.
2) Superb voice acting by Jennifer Hale.
3) Good character narrative.

The romance angle is pretty cheesy no matter how you look at it, but I think it gives the more personal involvement with the story. It feels more human.

Saying that these games are made exclusively for men is false. They have been trying to attract women to the market for years. The Mass Effect franchise is a leader in this mixed demographic.

[The Angry One]

GlassElephant wrote...

Doesn't bioware have a high number of female fans? I don't think the ratio of male to female gamers is exactly 50/50, but there is a lot of us.

Both BioWare and Bethesda have a high number of female fans.
Coincidentally they've both made games with male/female options consistently for years...

[Deflagratio]

Male Shep gets quantity, Femshep gets Quality. Seems fair enough to me.

[Missy_MI]

ahandsomeshark wrote...
not to mention considering they already have all the dialogue recorded, what does the demographic argument even matter? It's not like it would take significantly more resources to implement it.

Why all the pronouns of course. Even listening to TIM's speech in the beginning of Mass Effect 2 you can hear the differences depending on gender.  It may not seem like a big deal, but that's a second set of voice recordings for their actors.  And sometimes there are bigger differences to how an NPC responds (flirting, mocking, etc).

I know it might sound silly, but playing as a female char and having an NPC suddenly refer to you as a 'he' seriously breaks the immersion.  I always think 'oh yeah, that's right, I forgot I'm supposed to be a boy'.  BioWare has traditionally been really careful about that sort of thing and it's nice.

[Twilight_Princess]

Nuking 2 established male romances because the writers forgot one was a love interest (Thane...no I'm really not joking someone from bioware admitted they forgot) and because the other as wasn't popular (Jacob) was incredibly inconsiderate towards female players. There is no excuse for it and "whoops we forgot you gals can romance thane!" isn't acceptable either. What other message does it send than "Yeah we don't care about your choices enough to remember them or put any effort in...but the guys won't be punished for their LI choices though!"

And by "nuking" thane's romance I don't mean that he died. I mean how there is no paramour achievement, how the "romance" was tacked on the last minute, how they completely retconned his romantic personality and had shepard act like the love of her life didn't die (it's the same dialogue and reaction as a friendly shep apart from a few "siha's") Planting false hope in ME2 that romancers might have a choice in ME3 to extend his life  didn't help matters either.

Bioware could have at least bought my femsheps dinner before screwing them over.

[The Angry One]

Deflagratio wrote...

Male Shep gets quantity, Femshep gets Quality. Seems fair enough to me.

Heh, somewhat true.
Still, BioWare deserve ire for jerking FemShep around with Jacob, James, Joker and Jack.

The moral of the story is, never get friendly with anyone who's name begins with J! They're bad news.
Edit: Wait a second... my Shepard's name begins with J. DAMN!

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2012 - 01:36 .

[SilentK]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

For decades game developers have been trying to find how to increase their market share to women. Mass Effect has a pretty decent female fan base that many other game developers envy. They have been able to attract female gamers with:

1) Female protagonist is not a overly sexualized - she wears armor, not chainmail bikinis.
2) Superb voice acting by Jennifer Hale.
3) Good character narrative.

The romance angle is pretty cheesy no matter how you look at it, but I think it gives the more personal involvement with the story. It feels more human.

Saying that these games are made exclusively for men is false. They have been trying to attract women to the market for years. The Mass Effect franchise is a leader in this mixed demographic.

Jupp, playing FemShep is pure joy     =)

[The Angry One]

SilentK wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

For decades game developers have been trying to find how to increase their market share to women. Mass Effect has a pretty decent female fan base that many other game developers envy. They have been able to attract female gamers with:

1) Female protagonist is not a overly sexualized - she wears armor, not chainmail bikinis.
2) Superb voice acting by Jennifer Hale.
3) Good character narrative.

The romance angle is pretty cheesy no matter how you look at it, but I think it gives the more personal involvement with the story. It feels more human.

Saying that these games are made exclusively for men is false. They have been trying to attract women to the market for years. The Mass Effect franchise is a leader in this mixed demographic.

Jupp, playing FemShep is pure joy     =)

I think this is part of why the ending hit me so hard, my Shepard has been an inspiration, not only as a hero, but as a female lead to me for years.

[kalasaurus]

The Angry One wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

Doesn't bioware have a high number of female fans? I don't think the ratio of male to female gamers is exactly 50/50, but there is a lot of us.

Both BioWare and Bethesda have a high number of female fans.
Coincidentally they've both made games with male/female options consistently for years...

Makes sense, seeing how I am both a female gamer and a fan of Bioware and Bethesda.  I do appreciate how they incorporate an optional female protagonist.  I also have a chuckle here and there in ME when a character refers to my FemShep as "he" or "sir" sometimes.  That may be just a PS3 issue, though.

Modifié par GlassElephant, 03 avril 2012 - 01:42 .

[Karrie788]

The Angry One wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Male Shep gets quantity, Femshep gets Quality. Seems fair enough to me.

Heh, somewhat true.
Still, BioWare deserve ire for jerking FemShep around with Jacob, James, Joker and Jack.

The moral of the story is, never get friendly with anyone who's name begins with J! They're bad news.
Edit: Wait a second... my Shepard's name begins with J. DAMN!

Who is that unfortunate lover of hers that will undoubtedly get screwed over?

Still, some female romances are apparently fantastic. I enjoyed the Tali one. I heard Liara's romance was great too.

[The Angry One]

GlassElephant wrote...

Makes sense, seeing how I am both a female gamer and a fan of Bioware and Bethesda.  I do appreciate how they incorporate an optional female protagonist.  I do have a chuckle here and there in ME when a character refers to my FemShep as "he" or "sir" sometimes.

Never gotten a "he" that I remember, and I think "sir" is proper military terminology for female officers, even though "ma'am" exists, they're interchangable.
There are a few errors in the Shadow Broker dossiers like that though.

[The Angry One]

Karrie788 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Male Shep gets quantity, Femshep gets Quality. Seems fair enough to me.

Heh, somewhat true.
Still, BioWare deserve ire for jerking FemShep around with Jacob, James, Joker and Jack.

The moral of the story is, never get friendly with anyone who's name begins with J! They're bad news.
Edit: Wait a second... my Shepard's name begins with J. DAMN!

Who is that unfortunate lover of hers that will undoubtedly get screwed over?

Still, some female romances are apparently fantastic. I enjoyed the Tali one. I heard Liara's romance was great too.

Probably Kaidan, since he was my intended romance for my big trilogy playthrough that will never happen.

[Vhalkyrie]

Missy_MI wrote...

I guess we'd need to know the the statistics for RPGs.  I know a lot of women like games like Bejeweled and The Sims and Farmsville.  I'd be more interested to know many women have played Witcher or any of the single player Final Fantasy games.

I wonder if BioWare has good data on their playerbase gender ratio.  It would be interesting to see if the number of female gamers has gone up since say, KOTOR.

I have played The Witcher, FFVII, FFX, FFX-2.  I've also played a lot more games that are too long to list, but you asked for those specifically.  Since I have been gaming a long time, playing a male protagonist isn't unusual since that used to be the only option (like most of the early Ultima games).  I'm probably one of the only people who played Geralt as monogamous.  The 'romance' in that game was mostly of the casual variety, and the girls that threw themselves at him did so at awkward and inappropriate moments (Triss near death drinks a potion, then wants to get down to it).  The story itself had some interesting twists that I kept me interested enough to see it through the pretty terribly game mechanics.

Like most people FFVII is just classic RPG.  FFX holds a special place in my gaming heart.

And of course, I've been a fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate.  I've played nearly all of them.  Even the obscure ones like MDK.

[Karrie788]

The Angry One wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Male Shep gets quantity, Femshep gets Quality. Seems fair enough to me.

Heh, somewhat true.
Still, BioWare deserve ire for jerking FemShep around with Jacob, James, Joker and Jack.

The moral of the story is, never get friendly with anyone who's name begins with J! They're bad news.
Edit: Wait a second... my Shepard's name begins with J. DAMN!

Who is that unfortunate lover of hers that will undoubtedly get screwed over?

Still, some female romances are apparently fantastic. I enjoyed the Tali one. I heard Liara's romance was great too.

Probably Kaidan, since he was my intended romance for my big trilogy playthrough that will never happen.

I know the feeling. I don't think I'll ever finish my Talimance playthrough.

[kalasaurus]

The Angry One wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

Makes sense, seeing how I am both a female gamer and a fan of Bioware and Bethesda.  I do appreciate how they incorporate an optional female protagonist.  I do have a chuckle here and there in ME when a character refers to my FemShep as "he" or "sir" sometimes.

Never gotten a "he" that I remember, and I think "sir" is proper military terminology for female officers, even though "ma'am" exists, they're interchangable.
There are a few errors in the Shadow Broker dossiers like that though.

At least the sir thing made me think of Battlestar Galactica.  I guess it is fitting for the genre.

[Flarify]

Yeah, I realized that my renegade femshep was incredibly limited in her choices in ME3, as a Liaramancer throughout the previous 2 games. Since Kaidan died, and she didn't romance Thane or Garrus, her choices were... Liara and Samantha. I mean, that's fine for her, since she was all for the Liara romance, but only having 2 options is kinda silly when compared to a hetero-maleshep.

[Missy_MI]

The Angry One wrote....
There are a few errors in the Shadow Broker dossiers like that though.

Yep!  I was so confused until I realized it was talking about Shepard.  There's been one or two in TOR as well (Hutt refers to female bounty hunter as something like 'the best man' for the job or something), but most of the time, they are correct.

It's weird how the alien romances in Mass Effect seemed more appealing than the human ones.  Maybe the humans were too serious overall?  But Thane was serious and I liked him.  Ah well, who knows.

[AkeasharK]

Leafs43 wrote...


Who is the largest video game demographic?  males, by an overwhelming majority

How many lesbians actually exist?  ~2% in the total female population

How many male homosexual romances have been in Bioware games before DAO?  Zero


But apparently Bioware has made sure to go out of its way cater to 2% of the extreme minority and make lesbian relationships in their games for lesbians meanwhile disregarding the minority of their majority.


Logic, this hurts you.

Females are rapidly catching up in the proportion of male/female players. Heck, pretty much every female I know plays video games, outside of the much older types at work. All the younger females (30s and under) do. So quote recent statistics supporting that, including all games and not just CoD.

Can't speak for the 2% since thats impossible to prove.

And your last point is completely false, since there was a gay male relationship in Jade Empire.

[The Angry One]

Missy_MI wrote...

The Angry One wrote....
There are a few errors in the Shadow Broker dossiers like that though.

Yep!  I was so confused until I realized it was talking about Shepard.  There's been one or two in TOR as well (Hutt refers to female bounty hunter as something like 'the best man' for the job or something), but most of the time, they are correct.

It's weird how the alien romances in Mass Effect seemed more appealing than the human ones.  Maybe the humans were too serious overall?  But Thane was serious and I liked him.  Ah well, who knows.

It seems a problem in sci-fi in general, humans who aren't the leads are often made to be bland, to make the aliens stand out more. Especially males.
Though I do like Kaidan. Not sure if that's due to the writing or the fact that Raphael Sbarge adds so much to the part for me (I also liked Carth). His voice seems very... sincere I guess.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2012 - 01:54 .

[Missy_MI]

Vhalkyrie wrote...
Like most people FFVII is just classic RPG.  FFX holds a special place in my gaming heart.

And of course, I've been a fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate.  I've played nearly all of them.  Even the obscure ones like MDK.

FFX was awesome!  Even though I couldn't stand the main character.  If I have to play as a guy, I'd rather play the badass kind than the 'heart of gold, but irritatingly whiny' kind.

I have to admit I couldn't play through the original Baldur's Gate as a woman.  I tried, but the main char's sister keeps randomly saying 'You're a odd fellow!' or something like that.  After yelling at her that I wasn't a guy over and over, I finally just re-rolled as a man.   I felt like I fit into the universe better.

Which is partly why KOTOR was such a shock.  Been a fan of BioWare games ever since.

[AkeasharK]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

I have played The Witcher, FFVII, FFX, FFX-2.  I've also played a lot more games that are too long to list, but you asked for those specifically.  Since I have been gaming a long time, playing a male protagonist isn't unusual since that used to be the only option (like most of the early Ultima games).  I'm probably one of the only people who played Geralt as monogamous.  The 'romance' in that game was mostly of the casual variety, and the girls that threw themselves at him did so at awkward and inappropriate moments (Triss near death drinks a potion, then wants to get down to it).  The story itself had some interesting twists that I kept me interested enough to see it through the pretty terribly game mechanics.

Like most people FFVII is just classic RPG.  FFX holds a special place in my gaming heart.

And of course, I've been a fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate.  I've played nearly all of them.  Even the obscure ones like MDK.

That's one thing that annoyed me about the Ultimas. They went from allowing you to play a male or female lead, complete with a tonne of varying character portraits, and varying dialogues based off gender (complete with different romances / *coughs* who you could pay for time including same sex playing) to having the Avatar only available to play as a blonde male park ranger for the finale.

And of course that back in the 80s and early 90s.

[The Angry One]

Missy_MI wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...
Like most people FFVII is just classic RPG.  FFX holds a special place in my gaming heart.

And of course, I've been a fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate.  I've played nearly all of them.  Even the obscure ones like MDK.

FFX was awesome!  Even though I couldn't stand the main character.  If I have to play as a guy, I'd rather play the badass kind than the 'heart of gold, but irritatingly whiny' kind.

I have to admit I couldn't play through the original Baldur's Gate as a woman.  I tried, but the main char's sister keeps randomly saying 'You're a odd fellow!' or something like that.  After yelling at her that I wasn't a guy over and over, I finally just re-rolled as a man.   I felt like I fit into the universe better.

Which is partly why KOTOR was such a shock.  Been a fan of BioWare games ever since.

Ever played Spellforce 2? Had a female option, fully voiced, with a far superior VA to the male option I might add.
Constantly called a man for the entire game. They could've gone with gender neutral, but every 5 minutes it was "he", "him", "that man".
Drove me INSANE.

[Missy_MI]

The Angry One wrote...
Though I do like Kaidan. Not sure if that's due to the writing or the fact that Raphael Sbarge adds so much to the part for me (I also liked Carth). His voice seems very... sincere I guess.

Yep, right after Kaiden's first line at the beginning of ME1 I yelled 'Carth!' at my screen.  I think he does a great job with the voice acting too, but I was a little turned off in the third game just by sheer circumstances.

It felt a bit like they were shoving the ME1 relationship down my throat.  Thane died and no one cared, then immediately afterwards Kaiden said I'd cheated on him but it was cool, and all the chicks in the Normandy crew wanted into Shepard's cabin so....

Maybe just bad timing?

[Baronesa]

The Angry One wrote...

Ever played Spellforce 2? Had a female option, fully voiced, with a far superior VA to the male option I might add.
Constantly called a man for the entire game. They could've gone with gender neutral, but every 5 minutes it was "he", "him", "that man".
Drove me INSANE.

Now I don't want to play Spellforce 2 XD

But I remember an interesting JRPG... Septerra Core... Main character was female.

[Vhalkyrie]

Missy_MI wrote...

Yep, right after Kaiden's first line at the beginning of ME1 I yelled 'Carth!' at my screen.  I think he does a great job with the voice acting too, but I was a little turned off in the third game just by sheer circumstances.

It felt a bit like they were shoving the ME1 relationship down my throat.  Thane died and no one cared, then immediately afterwards Kaiden said I'd cheated on him but it was cool, and all the chicks in the Normandy crew wanted into Shepard's cabin so....

Maybe just bad timing?

I felt that way with Jacob.  Every time I went to talk with him, Shepard sounded like she was falling all over him.  Ugh.