208 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

 Video games can be art.


I win.

 

[saracen16]

rozar wrote...

You do realize that it is very probable that many paintings we consider art, where influenced by people who commisioned the painting. they said they wan't a less starry sky or extra bright colors here and there, and it still is art.

That's called feedback... constructive criticism. The artist makes the final decision as to set the pieces the way he wants it. You certainly did not commission Mass Effect 3, nor do you own the rights to change the story. You just own a copy of the game, the work of art. It is up to you to like it or hate it.

[AdmiralCheez]

saracen16 wrote...

That's called feedback... constructive criticism. The artist makes the final decision as to set the pieces the way he wants it. You certainly did not commission Mass Effect 3, nor do you own the rights to change the story. You just own a copy of the game, the work of art. It is up to you to like it or hate it.

So we don't have the right to talk about it or ask for a change?

Bioware still makes the final call here; we're not holding the poor bastards hostage at gunpoint or anything.

Not to my knowledge, at least.

Right, guys?

[M2S SOLID JOSH]

my opinion on games are art:
games can be art...when it "tries" to be art. also art has genres too. if u have a game that focuses on branching story, character interaction and dialouge y change it to their ( bioware ) liking at the last minute. games like shadow of the colossus and journey stick to their artic design and r praised. its like if micheal angelo put dicks every in the end of the sisteen chapel or leonardo putting a mustache on the mona lisa ( i know comparing games to classic art blah blah blah), u cant just put anything and call it art and have it accepted the same way. im pretty sure people would be pissed at micheal angelo and leonardo too lol.

[FeralEwok]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

That's called feedback... constructive criticism. The artist makes the final decision as to set the pieces the way he wants it. You certainly did not commission Mass Effect 3, nor do you own the rights to change the story. You just own a copy of the game, the work of art. It is up to you to like it or hate it.

So we don't have the right to talk about it or ask for a change?

Bioware still makes the final call here; we're not holding the poor bastards hostage at gunpoint or anything.

Not to my knowledge, at least.

Right, guys?

*Tucks away his 9mm*

Um...right.

[MDT1]

InvincibleHero wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Of course Video games are Art.

But like with every other form of art it's also true that, if you want to make your living with your art you have to find a balance between your artistic vision and what the customer wants.

I would agree with this but sometimes they have to do what they need even if it isn't what the fans want. They have been very accomodating in all their games up to this point and where has that gotten them?

It has gotten them the status of beeing one of the most known game developers worldwide.

And if you intended to point on the fanbacklash, this was mostly Biowars fault due to wrong marketing and PR decisions.

Modifié par MDT1, 26 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[JudasMesiah]

Tazzmission wrote...

the only reason why this is being mentioned is because your still pissed about an ending i bet

dont lie you know thats true because no such threads were created before any leak or the game came out

are you now gona say the united states congress is wrong now for even saying yes games are art because you have this obsession about a 10 minute ending that to you is bad?


you and alot of people fail to understand is bioware is the creator of the series and can pretty much do w/e the hell they want with it

this is where imo fans get this idea they feel like they themselves own something when in fact they dont

First of all, Yes I don't like the ending that I can admit.
Secondly.I do not agree that the ending should be change especially if it's being forced to change. It makes the artist look gutless by not standing behind their art.

[Funkcase]

in my honest opinion changing the ending doesn't mean it cant be art. Blade runner is one of my all time favourite films, and one of the most artistic films I would say, but does anyone else remember how many changes they made on it? Remember the rubbish cleche ending that we saw Deckard and Rachael ride into the sunset? And that was changed becuase it was recieved badly, and we got something more artisitic in the end .

And anyway, isn't art really just about being creative?A kid building a sandcastle is technically art.

Modifié par Funkcase, 26 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[Tymvir]

Everything can be "art" in the broadest sense. "Artists" have always had to make changes if the customer was unsatisfied and Bioware had no problem appealing to a "wider audience" and making changes to the game for marketing reasons.

[JudasMesiah]

Juromaro wrote...

I own Mass Effect 3, well I own the finished product at least.....However I do not and will never own the creative process that went into making mass effect 3, regardless if Bioware states that I was "part" of the creative process and I am a "Co-Creator" of the game. I own the finished product nothing more nothing less.....as you said alot of these take back whatever groups fail to realize that.

Thank you for hitting the perverbial nail in the head.

[Accism]

Cross posting from another thread...

Of course video games are art. But that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they can be changed. Shakespeare re-wrote many of his plays after their first performances, no doubt taking into account audience reactions in his re-writes, as the later versions are often more theatrical rather than purely poetic/literary. The most notable examples of this are Henry IV part 1, Hamlet, Troilus and Cressida, and Othello. If the Bard can get away with it, I think BioWare can

[AdmiralCheez]

Juromaro wrote...

Most in the Take back group are indeed holding them hostage, not physically but they are threatening to destroy their business by refusing to buy or boycott. A company does not want to lose any business even if it's just one, but sometimes the company has to make a stand and say hey well if you don't like the ending I'm sorry but it's how our story ends. I'm sorry you feel you wasted your money and understand that you will no longer use our services but I must stand my ground....or as some would say....Hold the Line!.

WHAT'S THAT?

PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE A PRODUCT NOT BUYING MORE PRODUCTS FROM THAT COMPANY?

AND A COMPANY NOT MAKING MONEY BECAUSE NOBODY BUYS THEIR PRODUCTS?

OH, THE HORRORS OF A FREE MARKET!

I hate capitalizism for all sorts of reasons, but this isn't one of them.

I own a McDonalds store in my town, I work alongside my employees on a daily basis. They have to put up with so much that I'm glad I'm not in their shoes anymore. However my motto to them is always the customer is always right, until the customer begins to threaten my employees, or threaten my business. At which point I ask them kindly to leave and if they don't I throw them on their ass personally. Cause yes the customer is always right, just not all the time.

And you should throw out the people making threats and being dirtbags.

But what if you, for a day, served all your burgers without the meat patty?  You can't exactly act surprised when people start demanding a refund (or at least another burger).

[jimfixedit]

On the arguement that something which is mass produced cannot be viewed as art.

Damien Hurst is considered to be an "artist"

His "art" is actually produced in a factory, by a teams of other people, sells for millions and ends up in collections and museums. He rarely gets his hands dirty these days.

If his work is considered as a definition of art, then video games most certainly can be.

Mass production affects nothing.

[AtreiyaN7]

Ermm, I actually like and respect Roger Ebert as a film critic - the last thing he is is an idiot. Besides, he owned up to the fact that his comments about video games were ill-advised and ultimately conceded that video games can be art (to other people). Ahem,  I believe that video games do qualify as art but that there are precedents for altering them; also...you might want to tone down the language a bit to something less inflammatory.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 26 mars 2012 - 09:22 .

[Funkcase]

Music is a art form, storytelling is a artform, acting is a artform, concept art is a artform, making something that prevokes a emotion is a artform. How can videogames not be art when it's so many forms of art rolled into one?

[jimfixedit]

Oh and on the not changing art arguement.

To use Hirst again, the works that made him famous are animals pickled in Formaldahyde (sp?).

These degrade over time and the pickling juice goes cloudy. The regularly need to be cleaned out and re-pickled.

In one case the wrong type of juice was used and the whole animal had started to rot so had to be dumped (I think it was the sheep one). As a result a new sheep was put into the tank. According the argument that art cannot be changed, this would mean that is was not the original work and therefore not art.
The owner & artist disagreed, it's still rubbish and worth millions.

[78stonewobble]

"ART" ... excusing crappy cavepaintings, starry nights, screams, symphonies, movies and games since time immemorial.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 26 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[CroGamer002]

Funkcase wrote...

Music is a art form, storytelling is a artform, acting is a artform, concept art is a artform, making something that prevokes a emotion is a artform. How can videogames not be art when it's so many forms of art rolled into one?

Because old people said so.

[Natureguy85]

Video games can be art because they contain artistic elements, primarily a story. And Bioware wrote a crappy end to their story. Sure, I can't force them to write a better one, but I hope they do!

[Lucy Glitter]

 Video games are art. What a silly thing to even argue about. Games like Limbo, Planescape, Grim Fandango and so many more prove that fact. 

Also, if Lady Gaga comes out with a really bad quality album with very bad quality and inconsistent songs and charges full price for it, I would ask for a refund. For a change in the songs? Perhaps not. I may ask for a new album that's good quality from her, though. 

People who question whether games are an artform are the kind of people who would have questioned Dunchamp's, "Fountain" when it was shown. <_<

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 26 mars 2012 - 11:25 .

[abaris]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Also, if Lady Gaga comes out with a really bad quality album with very bad quality and inconsistent songs and charges full price for it, I would ask for a refund. For a change in the songs? Perhaps not. I may ask for a new album that's good quality from her, though. 

People who question whether games are an artform are the kind of people who would have questioned Dunchamp's, "Fountain" when it was shown. <_<

There's a fundamental difference between Lady Gaga (although I don't like any of her songs), every other artist there is or was on that planet and video game productions.

Artists do their thing. Videogames aren't the brainchild of a single mind or a group coming together to do art for arts sake. They are planned like a military campaign with accountants and producers calling the first shots. Only after the dosh is handed out and the deadlines are set, there's some artistic work, but that again doesn't follow the visions of the idividual creating the worlds and the stories. It follows the script, authorized by the lead writer, the design follows the canon, set at some stage again not by an individual but by a group of people following a plan.

And the result is a product with artistic elements, same as with any given magazine that also employs artists to do their thing to make the pictures and layouts look pretty.