39 réponses à ce sujet

[beyondsolo]

I am writing this in the assumption that BioWare will do something about the ending, mostly because I trust them and because I think that they understand that the ending is not good. As a company they can of course not admit any such thing, but it is my understanding of the situation that the ending was rushed and therefore not well thought out. It is, in my opinion, the reason why the ending of Mass Effect 3 is completely detached from the rest of the game, why the players’ choices could not be truly incorporated, and why there are so many plot holes that rob it of any sense.
 
I am writing this as a concerned fan and customer in the hope that my favorite game series will get a worthy conclusion, one I think it deserves. Like many others I have invested a great amount of time and emotion into the Mass Effect games; they have been an important part of my life in the past five years. I came to care for the story, its characters, and for the universe and its rich lore.
 
BioWare, I am asking you humbly not to take the easy way out with the ending. I am asking you to look at it from the most critical point of view you can and see what many of your fans are seeing: that the ending is broken and that it simply doesn’t work. It’s not a happy ending I’m asking for, although that would be nice, but an ending that makes sense and doesn’t break with the style of Mass Effect.
 
I doubt that additional material that expands the current ending in order to “clarify” (Dr. Muzyka’s terminology) it will resolve its problems, mostly because the current ending defies both logic and established Mass Effect canon. I’m afraid that it’s broken beyond repair.
 
We are shown two different expansion shapes and speeds of the space magic shockwaves (I dislike the term space magic, but there is simply no other word for it because we have no clue what’s going on; like this at least everybody knows what I’m talking about). Seen from Earth orbit, the space magic expands spherically and at a speed substantially slower than light (or it would not be visible from this perspective). On the galactic scale, though, the space magic expands in disc shape and at what seems to be thousands of lightyears per second. There is no indication at all that the speeds change at any given time, other than the discrepancy.
 
If the slow expansion is the true speed, then what we see on the galactic scale is a time lapse of thousands of years. However, the beams we see traveling throughout the mass relay network seem to contradict that since their transit is nearly instantaneous. If the fast expansion is the true speed, then there was no way for Joker to evade the shockwave at all because it would have hit the Normandy pretty much instantly. This doesn’t seem to be the case, though, since the Normandy clearly had time to fly all the way to the Charon relay and leave the system. Also, common physics makes the fast expansion very unlikely because the space magic, whatever it is, should not be able to travel FTL.
 
This leads to the next point. Everything including the Normandy in the ending sequence is just plainly wrong. Shouldn’t the Normandy be fighting the Reapers? During Shepard’s conversation with the Catalyst we can clearly see the battle raging in the background. There is absolutely no reason for Joker to be fleeing the battle, unless we consider the possibility that he’s running away, but that is completely out of character.
 
And then there is no reason why Joker should go for the Charon relay in the first place. Either the space magic would have hit the Normandy instantly (fast expansion), which obviously isn’t the case, or he saw the expansion (slower than light) and decided to evade it. The latter seems more likely, but his chances of evading would be much better if he just engaged the Normandy’s drive core FTL. If Joker knew anything about physics (which is likely in his line of work), then he’d try to outrun the shockwave, not enter the mass-free corridor projected by the mass relay which would actually enable the space magic to catch up with him, not help him escape.
 
As we can see, the space magic starts tearing the Normandy apart, so it’s clearly destructive. Shouldn’t the shockwave have destroyed all the fleets in the Sol system, then? It would seem likely considering canon information on what happens when a mass relay is destroyed.
 
Assuming the mass relay explosions did not destroy everything in their vicinity because for some reason the space magic depleted their energy or something, what happens to the armies and fleets stranded in the Sol system? Earth’s infrastructure has clearly been destroyed by the Reapers. There is nothing left to sustain all the armies and crews that Shepard gathered. There are no dry docks to repair damaged ships—of which there are probably many. As others before me have pointed out, quarians and turians would probably starve once their field supplies run out. And with FTL drives enabling ships to only cover some 12 lightyears in 24 hours evacuation is completely out of the question, let alone the people returning to their homeworlds.
 
I believe that the destruction of the mass relay network serves as a technological reset to free the peoples of the galaxy from the grasp of the Reapers and their tech. However, everything that Shepard did during the game is also negated by it. The only people who could possibly survive are the quarians who remained behind on Rannoch, aided by the geth, and some other, remote and autarkic colonies that were not touched by the war. Every other major world lies in ruins with no hope for help. Galactic civilization is at an end.
 
There is also the issue of the ground team. Why did they abandon Shepard and ended up on the Normandy? Why did Joker go and evacuate them while Shepard was still out there? It seems too convenient, and the lack of an explanation is outright painful. Ashley would never have abandoned Shepard, no matter what.
 
Speaking of love interests, how is it possible that the LI steps of the crashed Normandy without even a hint of sadness on his or her face? I mean the mood does seem solemn, but after everything I saw in the previous games I was afraid that Ash would commit suicide after losing Shepard again. I was just hoping that she was pregnant so she had something worth living for. Again, the players get nothing. Sure, Shepard is a hero, but as a human being he/she gets completely wiped out of his/her social context.
 
The crew members are supposed to be Shepard’s friends. Why do they abandon him/her and then act as if nothing happened? I don’t think there’s anything short of a complete rewrite that will make this particular aspect of the ending make any sense.
 
Pretty much every single decision Shepard makes is reduced to a more or less arbitrary numerical value. You either get the war asset or you don’t. There’s not even an explanation of how those numbers relate to the war assets. Everything is just some number and has no other impact on the ending, let alone any impact on the final decision Shepard is supposed to make.
 
Finally, the biggest problem is that everything I’ve mentioned so far applies to any ending. Ultimately, the outcome of the Reaper conflict is always largely the same—at least to the player. Since we don’t get to see what consequences our decisions have other than the color of the space magic, there is only one ending in terms of causality. And that makes the final decision completely pointless and detached from the rest of the game while rendering everything done before it moot.
 
I don’t think that any of these problems can be resolved by “clarifying” the current ending because they are so deeply tied to its very nature that attempting to explain them would make things even worse.
 
BioWare, that is why I’m pleading you to take the time to make an ending that actually resolves the Reaper conflict, one way or another. Do not stumble over your own pride. Some of the greatest artists history has ever brought forward have revised their work and are no lesser for it. Please, BioWare, give the Mass Effect trilogy the conclusion it deserves.

[ShinAnubisXIII]

Although I have a different LI than you, your letter reflect my thoughts. Well said. However, there's one thing you forgot about. Should you pick the destroy ending, the remaining Quarians on Rannoch would loose the Geth support since ReaperChild tells Shepard it will wipe out all synthetic life including them.

Modifié par Shin-Anubis, 25 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[beyondsolo]

Shin-Anubis wrote...

Although I have a different LI than you, your letter reflect my thoughts. Well said. However, there's one thing you forgot about. Should you pick the destroy ending, the remaining Quarians on Rannoch would loose the Geth support since ReaperChild tells Shepard it will wipe out all synthetic life including them.

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, of course, it makes the reuinion of the quarians and the geth completely pointless. It also renders EDI's journey from ship AI to person irrelevant.

Modifié par beyondsolo, 25 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[Iwillbeback]

beyondsolo wrote...

Shin-Anubis wrote...

Although I have a different LI than you, your letter reflect my thoughts. Well said. However, there's one thing you forgot about. Should you pick the destroy ending, the remaining Quarians on Rannoch would loose the Geth support since ReaperChild tells Shepard it will wipe out all synthetic life including them.

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, of course, it makes the reuinion of the quarians and the geth completely pointless. It also renders EDI's journey from ship AI to person irrelevant.

Nope EDI can survive DESTROY if she is your squadmate.

[beyondsolo]

Iwillbeback wrote...

beyondsolo wrote...

Shin-Anubis wrote...

Although I have a different LI than you, your letter reflect my thoughts. Well said. However, there's one thing you forgot about. Should you pick the destroy ending, the remaining Quarians on Rannoch would loose the Geth support since ReaperChild tells Shepard it will wipe out all synthetic life including them.

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, of course, it makes the reuinion of the quarians and the geth completely pointless. It also renders EDI's journey from ship AI to person irrelevant.

Nope EDI can survive DESTROY if she is your squadmate.

Interesting. I didn't know that. But that doesn't really make sense, does it? It's basically a game mechanic that arbitrarily, if not accidentally, intervenes with the outcome.

[chmarr]

you may have forgotten to ask how the all of the squad some how made it onto the normandy, both my squad mates were on the normandy when it crashed when they were actually behind me when i got hit by the big leaser blast

[beyondsolo]

chmarr wrote...

you may have forgotten to ask how the all of the squad some how made it onto the normandy, both my squad mates were on the normandy when it crashed when they were actually behind me when i got hit by the big leaser blast

You're right. I didn't explicitly state that. I thought that was part of the entire ground team magically being on the Normandy, apparently. Everyone was on Earth, visible when Shepard is saying his goodbyes before the final assault. But then they're all aboard the Normandy when it crashes... That's what I meant with abandoning Shepard.

[Baronesa]

That was a long but great read.

Agree with you

[Chloe_W1971]

A great post that I mostly agree with, with some (very) minor exceptions. Let's hope Bioware is capable of self-reflection.

Space Magic ™

[beyondsolo]

Baronesa wrote...

That was a long but great read.

Agree with you

Thank you.

Chloe_W1971 wrote...

A great post that I mostly agree with, with some (very) minor exceptions. Let's hope Bioware is capable of self-reflection.

Space Magic ™

Thank you, as well. Please do share any thoughts you have. I'm very interested in what other people think about this because it's a very important matter to me.

[ImmovableMover]

I agree with everything you said.

Bioware will however, in the highest of probabilities, take the easy way out.

[Lmaoboat]

That's pretty much how I feel. I think trying to explain or add closure to the current ending would only serve to say, "Yes, that really is the ending."

[FemmeShep]

The easy way out, would be for them to run with the Indoctrination theory, and the ending being a hallucination.

Honestly, that would be the best option for making the ending good. But realistically speaking, they aren't going to change anything about the ending, outside of adding the missing pieces that weren't there (ie, cut scenes etc.).

[rma2110]

You know what bugs me? Why did everyone who came out of the Normandy look so happy? Not a single tear shed for a friend who died so they could live. Heartless and cold. so cold.

Nice post. I hope someone at Bioware reads it and takes it to heart.

[beyondsolo]

ImmovableMover wrote...

I agree with everything you said.

Bioware will however, in the highest of probabilities, take the easy way out.

Lmaoboat wrote...

That's pretty much how I feel. I think trying to explain or add closure to the current ending would only serve to say, "Yes, that really is the ending."

This is pretty much what I'm afraid is going to happen, which is why I wrote that post in the first place. I think that the people at BioWare need to see the reasons why the ending is bad and why it makes players feel the way they do when finishing the game.

It's not that we don't understand the ending because we're "unable to extrapolate from inclomplete data" (Chris Priestly, Twitter), but because the ending is hopelessly broken. I'd like BioWare to understand our protest as an opportunity to make an ending that doesn't leave players completely frustrated at their helplessness.

FemmeShep wrote...
The easy way out, would be for them to run with the Indoctrination theory, and the ending being a hallucination.

Honestly, that would be the best option for making the ending good. But realistically speaking, they aren't going to change anything about the ending, outside of adding the missing pieces that weren't there (ie, cut scenes etc.).

While I'm not a fan of the Indoctrination Theory as a matter of personal preference, I'm curious what BioWare could make of it if they really tried.

As for just adding cut content to the ending, that seems like a pro-forma solution to the problem, working along the lines of "look, we're listening, we did something about the ending, but it doesn't really matter that what we did ignores the essence of your protest."

rma2110 wrote...
You know what bugs me? Why did everyone who came out of the Normandy look so happy? Not a single tear shed for a friend who died so they could live. Heartless and cold. so cold.

I completely agree. That was the most heartbreaking part about the final sequence for me.

Modifié par beyondsolo, 25 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[Edrick1976]

I feel the same....

[Kyp]

beyondsolo wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

beyondsolo wrote...

Shin-Anubis wrote...

Although I have a different LI than you, your letter reflect my thoughts. Well said. However, there's one thing you forgot about. Should you pick the destroy ending, the remaining Quarians on Rannoch would loose the Geth support since ReaperChild tells Shepard it will wipe out all synthetic life including them.

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, of course, it makes the reuinion of the quarians and the geth completely pointless. It also renders EDI's journey from ship AI to person irrelevant.

Nope EDI can survive DESTROY if she is your squadmate.

Interesting. I didn't know that. But that doesn't really make sense, does it? It's basically a game mechanic that arbitrarily, if not accidentally, intervenes with the outcome.

This is the definition of a plot hole.

[Grasich]

Agreed, OP. Very well put.

"Clarifying" complete apocalypse and a galactic dark age does not make it any better.

I would also like to throw in that I truly believe there does need to be a way for Shepard and at least most of the crew to survive(and not be totally separated). Preferably by sacrificing something or someone to do so, but the option should be there. Doing something like how DA:O did the ending would work wonderfully I believe.

[Maro]

Deus ex machina.  They chose to introduce a new element to this story that solves the conflict we've been struggling with.  In an almost literal sense, God out of the machine.  Catalyst is a god-like being that eradicates the conflict.  It appears that Catalyst is an very advanced conciousness/being.  To a primative, technology takes on the appearance of magic.  Catalyst as a "god" performs something magical that solves the problem we've been faced with all along.  Deus ex machina.

[T-Zero]

Great post, well-written, polite, and concise. I truly hope Bioware is listening... part of what's been so hard on the fans about all of this is the silence coming from the BW camp. It's also largely the reason we're keeping the pressure up... we're trying our hardest to help them *save* ME3.

[spawnrofls]

Kyp wrote...

beyondsolo wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

beyondsolo wrote...

Shin-Anubis wrote...

Although I have a different LI than you, your letter reflect my thoughts. Well said. However, there's one thing you forgot about. Should you pick the destroy ending, the remaining Quarians on Rannoch would loose the Geth support since ReaperChild tells Shepard it will wipe out all synthetic life including them.

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, of course, it makes the reuinion of the quarians and the geth completely pointless. It also renders EDI's journey from ship AI to person irrelevant.

Nope EDI can survive DESTROY if she is your squadmate.

Interesting. I didn't know that. But that doesn't really make sense, does it? It's basically a game mechanic that arbitrarily, if not accidentally, intervenes with the outcome.

This is the definition of a plot hole.

I had EDI as my squad mate for destroy and she didn't get out of the ship.

[Ulti84]

100% Agree

Its clearly a fact that the most of us will pay for a better end as an DLC.
So please Bioware, take the time u need and save the wonderfull magic of this Universe you created.

[toffeetrooper]

good post @beyondsolo very well said

[beyondsolo]

Grasich wrote...

Agreed, OP. Very well put.

Thank you.

Grasich wrote...

"Clarifying" complete apocalypse and a galactic dark age does not make it any better.

I would also like to throw in that I truly believe there does need to be a way for Shepard and at least most of the crew to survive(and not be totally separated). Preferably by sacrificing something or someone to do so, but the option should be there. Doing something like how DA:O did the ending would work wonderfully I believe.

I agree that the ending should not be without sacrifice, and I'm not someone to demand a perfectly happy one, but it should at least feel gratifying in some way. When I sacrificed my Warden in DA:O, I felt that it was worth it. I didn't want to initiate something that was beyond my control and understanding(Morrigan's offer, pretty much the same as the Synthesis option), and in the end I thought that it was good end for my character.

Before finishing the game I had expected that Shepard would be offered some sort of selfish/selfless choice, or maybe even someone would sacrifice themselves voluntarily so Shepard could live on with his/her LI, which would have been bittersweet, yet much better than what we have now.

Maro wrote...
Deus ex machina. They chose to introduce a new element to this story that solves the conflict we've been struggling with. In an almost literal sense, God out of the machine. Catalyst is a god-like being that eradicates the conflict. It appears that Catalyst is an very advanced conciousness/being. To a primative, technology takes on the appearance of magic. Catalyst as a "god" performs something magical that solves the problem we've been faced with all along. Deus ex machina.

I was hoping that BioWare wouldn't resort to something like that, and all the information we had prior to game release indicated to me that it would be Shepard resolving the conflict, that the war would be ended by the means of military effort and that human nature, its indomiatble will to survive, epitomized in Shepard's nature would finally make us overcome the Reapers. Well, no such luck...

T-Zero wrote...
Great post, well-written, polite, and concise. I truly hope Bioware is listening... part of what's been so hard on the fans about all of this is the silence coming from the BW camp. It's also largely the reason we're keeping the pressure up... we're trying our hardest to help them *save* ME3.

Thank you. I truly hope that BioWare are listening.

[Maro]

beyondsolo wrote...

Maro wrote...
Deus ex machina. They chose to introduce a new element to this story that solves the conflict we've been struggling with. In an almost literal sense, God out of the machine. Catalyst is a god-like being that eradicates the conflict. It appears that Catalyst is an very advanced conciousness/being. To a primative, technology takes on the appearance of magic. Catalyst as a "god" performs something magical that solves the problem we've been faced with all along. Deus ex machina.

I was hoping that BioWare wouldn't resort to something like that, and all the information we had prior to game release indicated to me that it would be Shepard resolving the conflict, that the war would be ended by the means of military effort and that human nature, its indomiatble will to survive, epitomized in Shepard's nature would finally make us overcome the Reapers. Well, no such luck...

There is the whole neo-creationism thing too, with this new DNA composed of biotic and machine.  How much more god-like would any kind of technology that is capable of doing this would appear.  We, or at least I, saw Joker & EDI emerge onto a planet that looks like a paradise, like perhaps Eden, cuddling together in a loving embrace.  Biotic and machine, the new Adam & Eve... or at least a symbol of this union.  Deus ex machina.  On top of that, isn't the frame EDI is in called Eva?