185 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

Ottemis wrote...

Carfax wrote...
*snip*
However, it's also an abnormal condition brought about by a specific cause that should be studied and researched by Scientists.  Will it be possible to ever cure homosexuality?  Probably not, since sex hormones have tremendous power to shape the fetus's physiology and the changes are pretty much permanent.

I think it will one day be possible to screen for the cause of the imbalanced hormones, and correct it though.

I don't think anyone wants to be cured of something they don't think to be suffering under.
And if they are suffering under it, it's because of the way it's recieved by their surroundings and stigma's and taboo's put on the idea of bi and homosexuality. Not so much the feeling in itself for the same sex, because it's not any less pure than those of hetero-sexuals. Love is love is love, it's that simple. (or should be)

And honestly, what's the downside? More babies/kids being adopted and then raised in an environment that's friendly to diversity in being? Sounds horrible. Absolutely ghastly.

After birth, he did say it probably wouldn't be possible to change someone's sexuality. He's talking about fetal development. I've heard multiple theories regarding that - one says that with boys, the mother is experiencing high stress while pregnant and the fetus is swarmed with estrogen and vice versa with girls. Or when the mother has already had a lot of boys, the uterus develops an immunity to the foreign presence and that overloads it with estrogen...yatta yatta ya...

But in this case, it really falls into the category of "customizing your baby" which I don't like regardless of sexuality. 

"Okay, Mrs. Jones. We've determined that your baby will be healthy...but she will have brown eyes."
"WHAT?! BROWN EYES?! I DEMAND A BABY WITH POWDER BLUE EYES!" 

If they do determine what exactly causes it - which I don't find the harm in doing so - it's similar to when they were researching what are exactly the causes of recessive traits showing up) but it's when you start messing around with the fetus so the parents get "the exact baby they want". It starts making irrelevant things relevant. Sexuality falls with eye/hair color and foot size in that regard.  It makes babies like cars and if you don't have the latest genetic enhancement or your baby isn't "perfect" then you are of a lower caliber. And then the psychological effects on either kid. For the non-genetic enhanced one, it's obvious (Gattaca). For the perfect child, just look at say Miss Lawson. Do we really want to go down this path? 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 11 avril 2012 - 03:53 .

[Liraelx]

I concur, where is my man harem dammit? While I'm happy with Garrus, if the straight msheps get one the women should too.

[Daennikus]

I guess, having so many female characters among the crew, the available male ones become rare for a heterosexual female Shepard.

Aside from all of the equality-related debates, I think this uneven distribution of romantic partners is due to unlucky numbers.

[paspinall]

well of course technically Liara is a relationship option for any character build as she isnt really a she but a 'gender neutral' despite the fact they use she and everything, confusing enough ?

[Daennikus]

paspinall wrote...

well of course technically Liara is a relationship option for any character build as she isnt really a she but a 'gender neutral' despite the fact they use she and everything, confusing enough ?

What could have been more confusing would be a butch type of Liara with a deep voice and manly manners. Like her "father".

[Lucky Thirteen]

Liara is not gender neutral because she has breasts and an hourglass figure. A straight femShep would not find that appealing. A lesbian or bi femShep would.

[Edrick1976]

Mresa wrote...

Actually Garrus wants you only if you romanced him in ME2. So that leaves Kaidan! Unless he's dead which means FemShep has no male LI's. At all.

Wow this sucks... I mean seriously this really blows if you never played ME2 and you are playing a femshep and she is not gay or bi.....

[Carfax]

IsaacShep wrote...

Which class is your Shep Carfax?

Vanguard.

[Carfax]

Ottemis wrote...

I don't think anyone wants to be cured of something they don't think to be suffering under.
And if they are suffering under it, it's because of the way it's recieved by their surroundings and stigma's and taboo's put on the idea of bi and homosexuality. Not so much the feeling in itself for the same sex, because it's not any less pure than those of hetero-sexuals. Love is love is love, it's that simple. (or should be)

Ottemis, re-read my post.  I said that homosexuality itself will probably never be curable.  It may one day be preventable however.

And honestly, what's the downside? More babies/kids being adopted and then raised in an environment that's friendly to diversity in being? Sounds horrible. Absolutely ghastly.

More children being adopted by gay couples wouldn't even put a dent in the adoption crisis, since gay couples are so few relatively speaking. 

And diversity is both a weakness and a strength at the same time.  Diversity always being a good thing is politically correct BS..

[Carfax]

MACharlie1 wrote...

If they do determine what exactly causes it - which I don't find the harm in doing so - it's similar to when they were researching what are exactly the causes of recessive traits showing up) but it's when you start messing around with the fetus so the parents get "the exact baby they want". It starts making irrelevant things relevant. Sexuality falls with eye/hair color and foot size in that regard. 

Comparing eye color to homosexuality is a really bad analogy.  The latter is a natural, yet abnormal condition that will affect the options and quality of life of the fetus after it is born.  The former is a a purely aesthetic feature that has no impact on quality of life.

It makes babies like cars and if you don't have the latest genetic enhancement or your baby isn't "perfect" then you are of a lower caliber. And then the psychological effects on either kid. For the non-genetic enhanced one, it's obvious (Gattaca). For the perfect child, just look at say Miss Lawson. Do we really want to go down this path?

The direct cause of homosexuality is most likely to be the mother, so I doubt there will be any direct tampering with the fetus. 

[lil_89]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

Liara is not gender neutral because she has breasts and an hourglass figure. A straight femShep would not find that appealing. A lesbian or bi femShep would.

um, and this is because attraction to aliens are the same as attraction to humans? I think not. Remember that asari are a different species, they are not human, even though they mey look like it. So the physiological attraction one would experience with ones own species is not the same as with another species, so the same rules of pheromones and broad shoulders do not apply here. If you are going down that road then think about this; how is a female Shepard finding Garrus and Thane attractive? Sure, Thane has a semi-human body, but since there is NO chance of reproduction, a female shephard should not be attracted to him, according to your statement 

[shepskisaac]

Carfax wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Which class is your Shep Carfax?

Vanguard.

Then remember that less than 10% of players used Vanguard class in ME2 next time you try to use 'reality of business' argument in RPGs. You wouldn't have this class at all if Bioware followed your brilliant advices.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 12 avril 2012 - 03:09 .

[JosieRevisited]

lil_89 wrote...

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

Liara is not gender neutral because she has breasts and an hourglass figure. A straight femShep would not find that appealing. A lesbian or bi femShep would.

um, and this is because attraction to aliens are the same as attraction to humans? I think not. Remember that asari are a different species, they are not human, even though they mey look like it. So the physiological attraction one would experience with ones own species is not the same as with another species, so the same rules of pheromones and broad shoulders do not apply here. If you are going down that road then think about this; how is a female Shepard finding Garrus and Thane attractive? Sure, Thane has a semi-human body, but since there is NO chance of reproduction, a female shephard should not be attracted to him, according to your statement 

Ok try this: Chop off the head and stand Liara next to Traynor. Now tell me what the differences are and what precisely would appeal to a heterosexual female Shepard, who by definition, prefers a male-shaped body (and likely the associated naturally-occcuring appendages as well).

Liara is female and no matter how you try to spin the 'mono-gendered' (which by the way, means single gendered, not non-gendered, asari are all female) angle, a straight femshep isn't going to want to go to bed with her.

Modifié par JosieRevisited, 12 avril 2012 - 04:30 .

[MACharlie1]

Carfax wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

If they do determine what exactly causes it - which I don't find the harm in doing so - it's similar to when they were researching what are exactly the causes of recessive traits showing up) but it's when you start messing around with the fetus so the parents get "the exact baby they want". It starts making irrelevant things relevant. Sexuality falls with eye/hair color and foot size in that regard. 

Comparing eye color to homosexuality is a really bad analogy.  The latter is a natural, yet abnormal condition that will affect the options and quality of life of the fetus after it is born.  The former is a a purely aesthetic feature that has no impact on quality of life.

Only in a social context where it's a taboo. Remove the taboo and it has no bearing on the quality of it. 

It makes babies like cars and if you don't have the latest genetic enhancement or your baby isn't "perfect" then you are of a lower caliber. And then the psychological effects on either kid. For the non-genetic enhanced one, it's obvious (Gattaca). For the perfect child, just look at say Miss Lawson. Do we really want to go down this path?

The direct cause of homosexuality is most likely to be the mother, so I doubt there will be any direct tampering with the fetus. 

True. I do not disagree but I meant tampering with the pregnancy in any regard to impact what comes out at the end. 

[Jenuviel Jones]

The straight femshep romances in the series, even prior to ME3, were definitely disappointing for me. Kaiden wasn't really my type, and I just couldn't see myself with a lizard or a frog, no matter how great they were as characters. Relationships are at least partly based on attraction, and gills/mandibles are a bit of a turn-off. That left Jacob, who I found painfully dull.

Given the way the romances apparently played out in ME3, I'm sort of relieved that I skipped them. That's sad, because, at the risk of seeming a stereotype, I absolutely love the idea of meaningful romantic relationships in games. BioWare does have a tendency to code their romances with sex as the ultimate objective (which totally misses the point for me), but at least they moved away from that a bit in ME3.

Modifié par Jenuviel Jones, 14 avril 2012 - 09:20 .

[lil_89]

JosieRevisited wrote...

lil_89 wrote...

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

Liara is not gender neutral because she has breasts and an hourglass figure. A straight femShep would not find that appealing. A lesbian or bi femShep would.

um, and this is because attraction to aliens are the same as attraction to humans? I think not. Remember that asari are a different species, they are not human, even though they mey look like it. So the physiological attraction one would experience with ones own species is not the same as with another species, so the same rules of pheromones and broad shoulders do not apply here. If you are going down that road then think about this; how is a female Shepard finding Garrus and Thane attractive? Sure, Thane has a semi-human body, but since there is NO chance of reproduction, a female shephard should not be attracted to him, according to your statement 

Ok try this: Chop off the head and stand Liara next to Traynor. Now tell me what the differences are and what precisely would appeal to a heterosexual female Shepard, who by definition, prefers a male-shaped body (and likely the associated naturally-occcuring appendages as well).

Liara is female and no matter how you try to spin the 'mono-gendered' (which by the way, means single gendered, not non-gendered, asari are all female) angle, a straight femshep isn't going to want to go to bed with her.

Then tell me this, why would a heterosexual female Shephard be attracted to Garrus? What on earth does he have that is in any way similar to a human male, except the voice?

To be clear, yes Liara does per human definition resemble a female, to a human she looks like a female, and sound like one too, has more or less exactly the same body etc.I am on board with that. All I am trying to say is that she still is an ALIEN, which means that the same rules of attraction does not apply to her as to humans.

Human attraction comes from the primal need of reproduction, since Shephard cannot reproduce offspring with ANY alien (blue baby=100% asari, does not count), the attraction has to come from some other source. This goes for Garrus as well. The emphasis should be on whether Shep is xenophile or not, if Shep is attracted to alians in the first place the sexual orientation does not matter, because as I said; the human rules of attraction does not apply to aliens, which bacically means that Sheps sexual orientation is irrelevant

[Hadeedak]

The voice is a big part of attraction for women, FYI. Of both preferences. Voice and personality are high motivators for female sexuality.

Liara has a rather... girly personality, and a very girly voice. She's not going to be a big draw to a straight female Shepard. Even if you ignore the boobs, emphasized eyelashes, clearly delineated lips, hips, legs, small arms, the fact that she refers to herself as a she....

[smudgedhorizon]

I was so disappointed with the female love interests for mass effect 3.

In the uk 95% of the population are heterosexual, 1% gay or lesbian, and 0.5% bisexual. The figures worldwide are of similar proportions so WHY does mass effect give you ONE heterosexual romance option (Garrus) who is a freaking ugly alien, then retcons to give us 1 bisexual (Kaiden), or 4 women????

So the less than 1% of the population who are lesbian have FOUR romance options, but I and other hetero females have Garrus (hideous) or Kaiden who they ruined by implying he is probably eying up Steve while I'm asleep.


The MALE shep of course gets 6 straight options Tali, Miranda, Jack, Ashley, Liara or Diana, and then Steve if he's gay - so why did they have to ruin Kaiden for the rest of us by making him a gay option too?!?

It's just so biased, it's almost embarassing.

[Suspire]

When my femShep is attracted to Garrus I call her a straight xenophile (myself as well, because yes we find him physically attractive I think it's part a beauty-and-the-beast fetish, part a dangerous-looking-thing fetish, part a skull fetish, part a plain kinky xeno fetish....what), Garrus still has the voice of a dude and refers to himself as he, and behaves much like a he, despite his looks (I don't think looks is what matters to gender tho, but to attraction yes a big part for most people). However when she's also attracted to Liara (in one playthrough), I call her bi. Because Liara has the body shape of a human female, and calls herself she, and has a girly voice, etc. Asari are basically exotic blue human girls to me, physically, to the point I think most non-xenophiliac people wouldn't have too much trouble finding her attractive. I know some people like asari because of alien features solely but I doubt it's a majority. It's Green-Skinned Space Babe trope after all. I could go with an asari telling me they identify as a different gender than female though, but otherwise they're clearly chicks to me.

It is weird that femShep got screwed on the romance though, (well specially straight, but for bi and gay - Allers looks like Piggy from the Muppets) I wonder if there will ever be explanations for Jacob for example. Specially weird with all the femShep recognition, trailers, cover.

Modifié par Suspire, 15 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[Vigil_N7]

Serves you right for playing the inferior sex.

[Suspire]

For that post to be truely creative you need a sammich and kitchen joke.

[Carfax]

IsaacShep wrote...
Then remember that less than 10% of players used Vanguard class in ME2 next time you try to use 'reality of business' argument in RPGs. You wouldn't have this class at all if Bioware followed your brilliant advices.

Terrible analogy, since class variation is a staple of RPG games.

Romances however, much less gay ones, aren't.

[Carfax]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Only in a social context where it's a taboo. Remove the taboo and it has no bearing on the quality of it. 

True, but the taboo has remained in place for thousands of years (gaining and losing strength depending on the era), so I don't see it going away completely anytime soon. 

True. I do not disagree but I meant tampering with the pregnancy in any regard to impact what comes out at the end. 

There are so many things a woman can do that affects her unborn child.  For example, smoking.  Smoking has tremendous ill effects on an unborn child, yet there's always a few women that don't seem to care one way or another.. 

Then other women do everything they can to help ensure that the child is born as healthy and normal as possible by eating right, exercising, getting enough sunlight etc....

In other words, what I'm saying is that if there is a way to avoid having your child grow up to be gay, people are going to take advantage of it no matter what, because most people ultimately want whats best for their children, and best for themselves..

And thats not even considering the cultural or religious components. 

[shepskisaac]

Carfax wrote...

Terrible analogy, since class variation is a staple of RPG games.

Romances however, much less gay ones, aren't.

It's a perfect analogy. Variation and choices is what makes RPGs different. You can't just cherry pick "well I'm all for variation but only variation I like".

Carfax wrote...

In other words, what I'm saying is that if there is a way to avoid having your child grow up to be gay, people are going to take advantage of it no matter what

And there will be ALWAYS children born without any intervention from parents even when we reach age of extensive 'child DNA planning' which means bad news for you. Gay people will always exist and you will deal

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 avril 2012 - 09:14 .

[Jilinna]

Carfax wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Only in a social context where it's a taboo. Remove the taboo and it has no bearing on the quality of it. 

True, but the taboo has remained in place for thousands of years (gaining and losing strength depending on the era), so I don't see it going away completely anytime soon. 

True. I do not disagree but I meant tampering with the pregnancy in any regard to impact what comes out at the end. 

There are so many things a woman can do that affects her unborn child.  For example, smoking.  Smoking has tremendous ill effects on an unborn child, yet there's always a few women that don't seem to care one way or another.. 

Then other women do everything they can to help ensure that the child is born as healthy and normal as possible by eating right, exercising, getting enough sunlight etc....

In other words, what I'm saying is that if there is a way to avoid having your child grow up to be gay, people are going to take advantage of it no matter what, because most people ultimately want whats best for their children, and best for themselves..

And thats not even considering the cultural or religious components. 

Usually I do not engage in such discussions on the forums but I find that statement to be highly offensive and  it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You need to accept that there will always be people that want options in games that you don`t agree with. Whether they are a majority or not they have as much of a right to content as you, no matter what numbers say.

A taboo can always become a norm and vis-versa. It is that kind of attitude that continues that taboo, educate children and adults to be accepted of others and slowly the taboo is broken. Numbers never stopped anyone from fighting for equality from the woman`s movement and beyond and they will not stop because they are not the majority.

I am done. I do not want to derail the topic any more then it has been. You are way off topic regardless and you should stop further discussion on the topic in a thread that was created to highlight how a straight femshep has less LI options then a straight maleshep.