287 réponses à ce sujet

[yahtzo]

Uh, didn't people complain that everyone was bi in DA2? They handled it the right way in ME3.

[staindgrey]

Joolazoo wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

Baihu1983 wrote...

Unlimited69x wrote...

Ashley is religious.

shes also racist.

No. She's not.

Like many Humans, a species that was only on the galactic stage for less than four decades, she is simply leery of aliens.

She also despised Cerberus, a xenophobic and human-centric organization. If she was truly a racist ****, she would be trumpeting the Cerberus party line.

yes, she is. This is like saying someone's not racist because they won't join the KKK, but they just happen have a problem working with black people and don't think they're intelligent enough to use the same technology as whites. Or were whites just "leery" of blacks when they wanted to be segregated from them? In this sense racism is almost justified because the race you are being racist against has a totally different genetic composition than you, but it is still racism.

White/black racism isn't the same as humanity's xenophobia here.

Whites and blacks had a history spanning centuries, in which whites, who advanced in technology more quickly, enslaved blacks and treated them like an inferior for centuries. Even now that's felt with bad neighborhoods being primarily black and rich suburbs being primarily white.

ME's xenophobia is entirely different. Some humans don't trust aliens because we've only even known they exist for ~30years. There are tons of humans who remember the days that aliens were a myth, and plenty who've never seen an alien in person. It's natural to distrust something that isn't even your own species, let alone your own culture. We have a different perspective because we see these characters to whom we can relate, but think about it...

If you just found out there are aliens who've been running the galaxy for thousands of years without your knowing, would you treat them the same as humans at all times? Seriously, would you?

[Vigil_N7]

What's with everyone's obsession about wanting to turn all characters Bi? I honestly wasn't keen on bioware turning Kaiden Bi, but whatever.

Does it really impact your enjoyment of the game if you can't romance one character throughout it?

[FemmeShep]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

What's with everyone's obsession about wanting to turn all characters Bi? I honestly wasn't keen on bioware turning Kaiden Bi, but whatever.

Does it really impact your enjoyment of the game if you can't romance one character throughout it?

I don't think everyone needs to be Bi. But let's say I want to romance Ashley as FemShep. In my story she's Bi. If I don't ever initiate that, her sexuality doesn't matter. It's not about the story. 

Not sure if that make sense. As I said in my post on the last page, for the most part, the other characters sexuality is never really apart of the story at all, unless you are romancing them. Only then is the sexuality even brought up. Now, if the writers went out of their way to show the other characters romancing on the side (that had nothing to do with you), then I would agree, a more canon Sexuality would be needed.

But IMO sexuality doesn't really define these characters, unless you are trying to romance them. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 25 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[MACharlie1]

[quote]Warp92 wrote...

[/quote] [quote]Salvatore510 wrote... 

This. Also. she just says shes religious. For all we know, she could me Muslim, Jewish, hell, she could be worshipping the flying spaghetti monster![/quote]

Well in ME1 she clearly says God, not trying to flame or nothing but it's what I remember.

[/quote]
Capitalized or uncapitalized? Big difference. 

[january42]

Sparatus wrote...

No.

Really, I think Femshep has enough lesbian romances. She needs more hetero ones. Girls actually play your games, Bioware. Straight ones!

I bet it must suck to play a straight femShep.  The only interesting male LI are Garrus (who looks like the Predators little brother) and Thane(who is doomed).  Every other posible LI is freaking dull (Kaiden, Jacob.   Is Vega one? Would anyone care if he was?)

Modifié par january42, 25 mars 2012 - 07:38 .

[MadRabbit999]

You know what the best part is?

Lesbian romances are mostly implemented to keep the male population happy... oh the irony...

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 25 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[LegendaryBlade]

Americ4nPunk wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Personally, I think Grunt is the gayest person on the squad. Look at him, he is just so happy.

Legion is the queerest. He is just so odd.

I support GruntxMaleShep for DLC romance.

The point, I think you missed it

No, I got the joke. Gay means happy, hurr hurr

My response was also a joke.

[Vigil_N7]

FemmeShep wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

What's with everyone's obsession about wanting to turn all characters Bi? I honestly wasn't keen on bioware turning Kaiden Bi, but whatever.

Does it really impact your enjoyment of the game if you can't romance one character throughout it?

I don't think everyone needs to be Bi. But let's say I want to romance Ashley as FemShep. In my story she's Bi. If I don't ever initiate that, her sexuality doesn't matter. It's not about the story. 

Not sure if that make sense. As I said in my post on the last page, for the most part, the other characters sexuality is never really apart of the story at all, unless you are romancing them. Only then is the sexuality even brought up. Now, if the writers went out of their way to show the other characters romancing on the side (that had nothing to do with you), then I would agree, a more canon Sexuality would be needed.

But IMO sexuality doesn't really define these characters, unless you are trying to romance them. 

I understand your point - but personally I believe there is only so much of the game one can headcanon. If it gives you more fulfillment to belive say, Ash is Bi - then by all means do. However, Ashley Williams in the canon is straight, thus she should be reflected as such in the game. 

Shepard's story, shepard's personality - these are all things the player should mold. Personally, I don't think squadmates should be. 

[Wattoes]

january42 wrote...
I bet it must suck to play a straight femShep.  The only interesting male LI are Garrus (who looks like the Predators little brother) and Thane(who is doomed).  Every other posible LI is freaking dull (Kaiden, Jacob.   Is Vega one? Would anyone care if he was?)

Thats a pretty good point.  Then again, I didn't exactly bang Ashley in my playthrough for her charming personality. 

[ManiacalShen]

Eh, I think there was a lot more groundwork for a lesbian Tali than a lesbian Ashley, but that might just be my opinion. I mean, the talk of linking suits, her interest in literature about human relationships and behavior...

[Wattoes]

ManiacalShen wrote...

Eh, I think there was a lot more groundwork for a lesbian Tali than a lesbian Ashley, but that might just be my opinion. I mean, the talk of linking suits, her interest in literature about human relationships and behavior...

Not to mention if you are going to jump across and entire species, im pretty sure gender isn't even a blip on the radar at that point.

[kkr]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

You know what the best part is?

Lesbian romances are mostly implemented to keep the male population happy... oh the irony...

I absolutely agree. There were so many negative posts on places such as YouTube regarding the romance of both Kaiden and Steve as a male Shepard. Unfortunately it indicates that it is great for women to have sex with other women and wrong for a man to even be able to kiss another man. It goes to show that the human race is still sexist and has a lot of maturing to do.

[sistersafetypin]

The whole Ash thing just reminds me of how Miranda was also supposed to be bi and Bioware just edited that out at the last minute. Not to mention Jack that TELLS you she was once apart of a threesome... Just, whatever Bioware

Modifié par sistersafetypin, 25 mars 2012 - 08:37 .

[Joolazoo]

staindgrey wrote...

Joolazoo wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

Baihu1983 wrote...

Unlimited69x wrote...

Ashley is religious.

shes also racist.

No. She's not.

Like many Humans, a species that was only on the galactic stage for less than four decades, she is simply leery of aliens.

She also despised Cerberus, a xenophobic and human-centric organization. If she was truly a racist ****, she would be trumpeting the Cerberus party line.

yes, she is. This is like saying someone's not racist because they won't join the KKK, but they just happen have a problem working with black people and don't think they're intelligent enough to use the same technology as whites. Or were whites just "leery" of blacks when they wanted to be segregated from them? In this sense racism is almost justified because the race you are being racist against has a totally different genetic composition than you, but it is still racism.

White/black racism isn't the same as humanity's xenophobia here.

Whites and blacks had a history spanning centuries, in which whites, who advanced in technology more quickly, enslaved blacks and treated them like an inferior for centuries. Even now that's felt with bad neighborhoods being primarily black and rich suburbs being primarily white.

ME's xenophobia is entirely different. Some humans don't trust aliens because we've only even known they exist for ~30years. There are tons of humans who remember the days that aliens were a myth, and plenty who've never seen an alien in person. It's natural to distrust something that isn't even your own species, let alone your own culture. We have a different perspective because we see these characters to whom we can relate, but think about it...

If you just found out there are aliens who've been running the galaxy for thousands of years without your knowing, would you treat them the same as humans at all times? Seriously, would you?

In short..it's still racism. You're saying it's different, but it's still racism. No, I wouldn't treat them the same, but you're also ignoring the fact that ashley has lived nearly her entire life with the knowledge that aliens exist. It is obviously shown in the ME universe that this xenophobia/racism is a negative trait that most good people don't seem to have. All you're really saying is that their racism is justified by the fact that they are so shell shocked from knowing other species exist.

not to mention it is racism...as everyone in the ME universe says it is. They don't call it xenophobia because racism makes more sense in terms of aliens and humans than it does between whites and blacks if you actually look at it.

Modifié par Joolazoo, 25 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[LegendaryBlade]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

What's with everyone's obsession about wanting to turn all characters Bi? I honestly wasn't keen on bioware turning Kaiden Bi, but whatever.

Does it really impact your enjoyment of the game if you can't romance one character throughout it?

I don't think everyone needs to be Bi. But let's say I want to romance Ashley as FemShep. In my story she's Bi. If I don't ever initiate that, her sexuality doesn't matter. It's not about the story. 

Not sure if that make sense. As I said in my post on the last page, for the most part, the other characters sexuality is never really apart of the story at all, unless you are romancing them. Only then is the sexuality even brought up. Now, if the writers went out of their way to show the other characters romancing on the side (that had nothing to do with you), then I would agree, a more canon Sexuality would be needed.

But IMO sexuality doesn't really define these characters, unless you are trying to romance them. 

I understand your point - but personally I believe there is only so much of the game one can headcanon. If it gives you more fulfillment to belive say, Ash is Bi - then by all means do. However, Ashley Williams in the canon is straight, thus she should be reflected as such in the game. 

Shepard's story, shepard's personality - these are all things the player should mold. Personally, I don't think squadmates should be. 

I agree, some things just need to be canon. Plus, at a point the characters have simply become too mallable and feel like they've lost depth, and that really is the case with making all the characters bi. Dragonage II had a real big problem with this.

[FemmeShep]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

What's with everyone's obsession about wanting to turn all characters Bi? I honestly wasn't keen on bioware turning Kaiden Bi, but whatever.

Does it really impact your enjoyment of the game if you can't romance one character throughout it?

I don't think everyone needs to be Bi. But let's say I want to romance Ashley as FemShep. In my story she's Bi. If I don't ever initiate that, her sexuality doesn't matter. It's not about the story. 

Not sure if that make sense. As I said in my post on the last page, for the most part, the other characters sexuality is never really apart of the story at all, unless you are romancing them. Only then is the sexuality even brought up. Now, if the writers went out of their way to show the other characters romancing on the side (that had nothing to do with you), then I would agree, a more canon Sexuality would be needed.

But IMO sexuality doesn't really define these characters, unless you are trying to romance them. 

I understand your point - but personally I believe there is only so much of the game one can headcanon. If it gives you more fulfillment to belive say, Ash is Bi - then by all means do. However, Ashley Williams in the canon is straight, thus she should be reflected as such in the game. 

Shepard's story, shepard's personality - these are all things the player should mold. Personally, I don't think squadmates should be. 

Yes, I agree. And thanks for not laying into me. 

You make great points. I can understand the argument that the player shouldn't be able to mold other characters outside of Shepard. I guess I just wish, they had done more with the characters (in terms of depth and complexity) to reinforce their canon personalites.

Because for me, a lot of their personality traits weren't always Canon, and could change depending on the choices you make. And since their sexuality/romantic life is never really brought up outside of when you try to romance them, I never really took how they were in that regard, as being definitively Canon.

Apart of me also likes the idea, of having that kind of control to shape my story. But again, I totally get your argument. It's a good one. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 25 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[sistersafetypin]

Sparatus wrote...

No.

Really, I think Femshep has enough lesbian romances. She needs more hetero ones. Girls actually play your games, Bioware. Straight ones!

Did you have real romance options for ME3? Because lesbians didn't in ME2. And the comment in bold? Yeah.. I'm a girl to. Not a 'Ladybro' a Girl

[AnImpossibleGirl]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

What's with everyone's obsession about wanting to turn all characters Bi? I honestly wasn't keen on bioware turning Kaiden Bi, but whatever.

Does it really impact your enjoyment of the game if you can't romance one character throughout it?

I don't think everyone needs to be Bi. But let's say I want to romance Ashley as FemShep. In my story she's Bi. If I don't ever initiate that, her sexuality doesn't matter. It's not about the story. 

Not sure if that make sense. As I said in my post on the last page, for the most part, the other characters sexuality is never really apart of the story at all, unless you are romancing them. Only then is the sexuality even brought up. Now, if the writers went out of their way to show the other characters romancing on the side (that had nothing to do with you), then I would agree, a more canon Sexuality would be needed.

But IMO sexuality doesn't really define these characters, unless you are trying to romance them. 

I understand your point - but personally I believe there is only so much of the game one can headcanon. If it gives you more fulfillment to belive say, Ash is Bi - then by all means do. However, Ashley Williams in the canon is straight, thus she should be reflected as such in the game. 

Shepard's story, shepard's personality - these are all things the player should mold. Personally, I don't think squadmates should be. 

I agree, some things just need to be canon. Plus, at a point the characters have simply become too mallable and feel like they've lost depth, and that really is the case with making all the characters bi. Dragonage II had a real big problem with this.

Well, not all were. Sebastian was not Bi--for the same reason Ash is not. His belief in The Maker (Or God in Ashley's case.) Granted Seb was a DLC he was still my favorite (Though, he was no Alistair...) it was a chaste relationship but oh well, he was the only was that wasn't gross. Who needs the akward sex scenes any way.

[IronSabbath88]

If I were female, I'd go gay for Ash.

Random, but true!

[BatmanPWNS]

FemShep got Liara, Samantha and Aller. 3 lesbians is enough.

[sistersafetypin]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

FemShep got Liara, Samantha and Aller. 3 lesbians is enough.

Liara & Aller aren't Lesbians

[DarkSpiral]

Joolazoo wrote...
In short..it's still racism. You're saying it's different, but it's still racism. No, I wouldn't treat them the same, but you're also ignoring the fact that ashley has lived nearly her entire life with the knowledge that aliens exist.

She's also lived her entire life with the Stigma of being General WIlliams granddaughter.  Also, the proper term is specism.  Racism only applies if you are referring to your own species.  An example would be the attitude toward asari with no alien partent.  The pureblood term is a racist term when sued by one asari to another.

It is obviously shown in the ME universe that this xenophobia/racism is a negative trait that most good people don't seem to have.

Source?  I can name a few otherwise good people that exhibited some pretty specist traits.  Presely was one.  The asari on Illium (ME2) that was in charge of the Zhu's Hope colony contract was another.  You can change her mind about the situation by appealing to her better nature.  Furthermore, you can actually get Ash to consider another point of view by the end of ME1, if you take those dialogue choics that argue for better relations with other species.

not to mention it is racism...as everyone in the ME universe says it is. They don't call it xenophobia because racism makes more sense in terms of aliens and humans than it does between whites and blacks if you actually look at it.

Again, please source.  Ashley is the only one I can recall ever using the term.  She is hardly "everyone."
----------------------

Back on topic!  I was rather glad Ashley didn't end up beign Bi.  I wasn't really fond of the tactic they took in DA2 where all love interests (except Sebastian) were available to all players.  I prefer NPCs that have preferences that make sense within their established characters, as we did in ME3.  That is largely a matter of taste, of course.  I'm not trying to suggest there is anything actually BAD about the idea that all LIs are available to any character.  I suppose it breaks immersion for me.

[BatmanPWNS]

sistersafetypin wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

FemShep got Liara, Samantha and Aller. 3 lesbians is enough.

Liara & Aller aren't Lesbians

They can still be romanced by FemShep.

Quite frankly, gay men have a more right to complain since they only have 2 romances compare to straight men who have 4.