46 réponses à ce sujet

[slashthedragon]

I was wondering, what would people like to see in the companion characters for DA:3?

First, let me say that even though I *love* the characters from DA:2, I really came to love them through reading fan fics.  I felt like the game laid the ground work for awesome characters, but didn't always follow through, leaving several feeling very 'one note'. 

That being said, I'd like to see the following:

1) Characters that show growth or changes in mind.  If a character hates or loves 'x' at the beginning (mages, elves, whatever), by the end, show an attitude change depending on interactions and events.  There is nothing wrong with having a character hate 'x' from start to finish, but we've seen a lot of that in 2.
2) A happy, drama free character.  Even if it's just one, could we have a character that does not have some traumatic backstory and is legitimately happy?  Isabela came close, but even then she had the issue of her previous marriage/abusive husband. 
3) Less angsty characters.  If there can't be at least one happy companion, can there be at least a decrease in the angst of the characters overall?

I look forward to reading other people's thoughts!

[caradoc2000]

slashthedragon wrote...

A happy, drama free character.  Even if it's just one, could we have a character that does not have some traumatic backstory and is legitimately happy?

Why would such a character want to join your party? I.e. why would such character want to trade their blissful existence to the company of a bunch of troubled misfits and quite likely get themselves killed to boot.

[slashthedragon]

caradoc2000 wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

A happy, drama free character.  Even if it's just one, could we have a character that does not have some traumatic backstory and is legitimately happy?

Why would such a character want to join your party? I.e. why would such character want to trade their blissful existence to the company of a bunch of troubled misfits and quite likely get themselves killed to boot.

To help those around him/her, to protect their family/village, or just to have a grand adventure perhaps?

[caradoc2000]

slashthedragon wrote...

or just to have a grand adventure perhaps?

So they are not really happy?

Happy characters tend to make poor drama, which is why fairy tales end with "they lived happily ever after" - the drama has ended so there is no need for the story to continue.

Revenge, greed, search for justice ... these things make good motivations for people to pursue whatever it is they are pursuing.

[cJohnOne]

yay! Someone made a topic in the Builds and Character forums.

I want Hobbits. Definitely Hobbits.

Oh you want what kind of character. I like good characters who like the chantry, but that doesn't work with a Hobbit.

[cowoline]

Varric is a happy character. He is driven by couriosity and he loves trouble. Besides i like the characters for thier virtues, but it is their flaws and desires that makes us(or me at least) love them. That is why dragon age characters are so believable and loved.

If you take away "the bad stuff" then you remove all passion from them. Even helpfull, kind and happy people has something that drives them sometimes even more than you would think.

[esper]

Jasmine96 wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

or just to have a grand adventure perhaps?

So they are not really happy?

Happy characters tend to make poor drama, which is why fairy tales end with "they lived happily ever after" - the drama has ended so there is no need for the story to continue.

Revenge, greed, search for justice ... these things make good motivations for people to pursue whatever it is they are pursuing.

Agree, I sort of like troubled chracters but Varric seemed like a pretty happy character to me

Expect that the game clearly shows from act 1, even before the Deep Road that he has brother issues, past act 1 they excalate.

[slashthedragon]

I don't know if happy doesn't equal interesting. My niece is probably the happiest person I know and she is very interesting because of the things she does, like she went to the Dominican Republic to help people there.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I'd like to see a character who's generally happy and isn't driven by angst, family issues or a tragic past. A good writer could make them interesting if they tried. Happy people can be incredibly driven and are, on the whole, much more active in their community or abroad than the depressed and self-absorbed.

Everyone has baggage, but not all choose to be prey for their fears.

[Corker]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I'd like to see a character who's generally happy and isn't driven by angst, family issues or a tragic past. A good writer could make them interesting if they tried. Happy people can be incredibly driven and are, on the whole, much more active in their community or abroad than the depressed and self-absorbed.

Wouldn't Aveline fit this bill?

Maybe "happy" is the wrong word; "balanced, able to live through and past bad events."  Aveline has a tragic thing happen; her husband has to be killed.  And then, four years later, she's moving on, involved in her community, making positive changes for Kirkwall as a whole.  She's not "wheee!" happy, but she has agency in her own life and seems satisfied with where she's taking it.

Edit: Not that just because there's been one, there shouldn't be more.  I loved Aveline!

Modifié par Corker, 04 avril 2012 - 03:17 .

[chuckwells62]

I've previously liked how Awakening and Dragon Age 2 built a connection to what came before by incorporating some party members with ties to earlier content.

I have no idea if that will continue, but doing so created a nice "bridge" for fans of the franchise. If I had the ear of the development team, then I would suggest that despite select perceptions of DA2, I would like to see any of the following characters return in Dragon Age 3 as party members: Meeran, Athenril, Charade, Maraas, or Feynriel. Maybe Cassandra, but only maybe.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

chuckwells62 wrote...

I've previously liked how Awakening and Dragon Age 2 built a connection to what came before by incorporating some party members with ties to earlier content.

I have no idea if that will continue, but doing so created a nice "bridge" for fans of the franchise. If I had the ear of the development team, then I would suggest that despite select perceptions of DA2, I would like to see any of the following characters return in Dragon Age 3 as party members: Meeran, Athenril, Charade, Maraas, or Feynriel. Maybe Cassandra, but only maybe.

Agreed, this is something that I've enjoyed and was very surprised with the change they did with Anders and Isabela.  I also liked what happened with Flemeth but I already guessed from the first game that we'd see her again. 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Corker wrote...

Wouldn't Aveline fit this bill?

She's driven to positive works, but I wouldn't call her happy. She's largely affected by her husband's death until Donnic comes along.

Maybe "happy" is the wrong word; "balanced, able to live through and past bad events."  Aveline has a tragic thing happen; her husband has to be killed.  And then, four years later, she's moving on, involved in her community, making positive changes for Kirkwall as a whole.  She's not "wheee!" happy, but she has agency in her own life and seems satisfied with where she's taking it.

Edit: Not that just because there's been one, there shouldn't be more.  I loved Aveline!

Avs and Varric remain my two favourite characters of DA2! I suppose I'm against the supposition that characters must have a deep dark secret, horrible vice, internal conflict, teh dramaz, or something tragic in their past to be interesting. Everyone has baggage in some shape or form, but they don't have to be running from it or prey for it to have an awesome backstory. They just need a good writer.

[Merilsell]

caradoc2000 wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

or just to have a grand adventure perhaps?

So they are not really happy?

Happy characters tend to make poor drama, which is why fairy tales end with "they lived happily ever after" - the drama has ended so there is no need for the story to continue.

Revenge, greed, search for justice ... these things make good motivations for people to pursue whatever it is they are pursuing.

One does not exclude the other. A good writer can make a balanced character interesting, using the things they do or are interested in, for example. It would be a nice change to all the drama queens we had in the past, especially in DA2. Ugh. 

It is a reason why I enjoy Kaidan so much. (I know wrong fandom, lol, but he comes to mind) He has a "troubled" past, but he is very grounded, mature and matter-of-fact with it, and nevertheless interesting (at least for me). I found that refreshing to see amidst all the drama queens. 

As long they are not as annoying and over the top as Merrill, why not having such a grounded/ "happy" character for DA3, too?

[keesio74]

slashthedragon wrote...

I was wondering, what would people like to see in the companion characters for DA:3?

First, let me say that even though I *love* the characters from DA:2, I really came to love them through reading fan fics.  I felt like the game laid the ground work for awesome characters, but didn't always follow through, leaving several feeling very 'one note'. 

That being said, I'd like to see the following:

1) Characters that show growth or changes in mind.  If a character hates or loves 'x' at the beginning (mages, elves, whatever), by the end, show an attitude change depending on interactions and events.  There is nothing wrong with having a character hate 'x' from start to finish, but we've seen a lot of that in 2.
2) A happy, drama free character.  Even if it's just one, could we have a character that does not have some traumatic backstory and is legitimately happy?  Isabela came close, but even then she had the issue of her previous marriage/abusive husband. 
3) Less angsty characters.  If there can't be at least one happy companion, can there be at least a decrease in the angst of the characters overall?

I look forward to reading other people's thoughts!

1) There was some of that in both dragon age games. Anders slowly get more radical from act 1 to act 3. Merrill can be convinced that her path is desctructive. It was refreshing to see her smash that mirror. Sten was hostile but you gain his respect at the end. You can harden Alistar and Leliana. Velanna is not so hostile to humans as you be nice to her. And finally... Nathaniel! He hates your guts in the beginning of Awakenings and if done right, he do a complete reversal.

2) Aveline is a pretty stable character. yes she lost her husband and than brought her down for awhile but otherwise she was my rock in terms of stability. Varric is pretty stable too.

3) Angsty characters are more interesting. How many stories/movies are there where everyone is all happy and everything is all just fine?

[keesio74]

chuckwells62 wrote...

I've previously liked how Awakening and Dragon Age 2 built a connection to what came before by incorporating some party members with ties to earlier content.

I let Awakening and DA:O playthrough impact my decisions that turned out to be wrong, funny enough. I overly trusted Anders+Justice since I had no problems with both of them in Awakenings. I just blindly trusted them in DA2 because I felt I really knew them. I also trusted them because of Wynne and how she had a spirit in her also. It made me too trusting of the "good" spirits and naive to the dangers.

[Tonia Laird]

This is a really interesting thread, people. Thanks for creating it!

[slashthedragon]

Tonia Laird wrote...

This is a really interesting thread, people. Thanks for creating it!

Awwww thank you!<3

[slashthedragon]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I'd like to see a character who's generally happy and isn't driven by angst, family issues or a tragic past. A good writer could make them interesting if they tried. Happy people can be incredibly driven and are, on the whole, much more active in their community or abroad than the depressed and self-absorbed.

Everyone has baggage, but not all choose to be prey for their fears.

You said what I was trying to say so much better!  I guess when people see 'happy' they think puppies and rainbows happy.  I'd love a character who indded isn't bogged down with the past or other issues.  I always thought Zevran was close to that, except when they added the Rinna-was-killed-I-want-to-committ-suicide issue.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

*waves to Tonia!*

@slashthedragon - I was thinking of Zevran when Merilsell brought up Kaidan, actually, but looking back on him in DA:O he really just presents a good façade of being unaffected by his past. He's candid about stuff that he's been through--and he's been through a lot--but while he comes across as more cheerful than Angst Lord his character still seems to largely depend on tragic past events to make him interesting. Rinna, his mother, Crow training, even Taliesen at the end there, and yeah, meeting the PC turns out to be a suicide bid.

Oghren's life is incredibly sad if you look at it, Alistair was effectively abandoned by his father, neglected by the man who took him in, and trained by an Order he was miserable in, Leliana also lost her parents then became a bard and was ruthlessly betrayed by her lover to torture (or so she claims), neither Morrigan's nor Sten's childhoods could be called happy I think, Shayle was broiled to 'death' by liquid lyrium, and Wynne is the walking dead from the moment we meet her.

The happiest companion is the bloody dog, and unless you're a Cousland you first meet him when he's dying of taint poisoning! XD

On the whole though, I don't remember the DA:O characters angsting it up quite as much as the DA2 characters do. But it felt like DA:O left a lot more room for casual 'flavour' conversation, which might have helped the characters feel more well-rounded as people. In DA2 it was like every conversation with certain characters would always, always come back to their unhappy issues -- even in the romance scenes!

I like your idea from before:

To help those around him/her, to protect their family/village, or just to have a grand adventure perhaps?

Why couldn't there be a character who has a simple desire for heroism? Or is already an established hero, with some failures that have helped her grow instead of haunting her every waking moment? A brother/sister who's given haven even to apostates, or a dwarf who's shepherded escaped slaves through the Deep Roads, or a Dalish who protects his forest from bandits and saves even human travellers. None of those mean the character is a happy one, but possibly less in need of a psycological band-aid than what we're used to?

[Hambacon]

I'm all for a strong happy character who just loves adventure for the sake of honor, and goes with the blessing of their family.
---------------------------------------------------
Leliana also lost her parents then became a bard and was ruthlessly betrayed by her lover to torture (or so she claims)
----------------------------------------------------
Wait, what do you mean 'so she claims'? Was there something I missed here?

[esper]

Hambacon wrote...

I'm all for a strong happy character who just loves adventure for the sake of honor, and goes with the blessing of their family.
---------------------------------------------------
Leliana also lost her parents then became a bard and was ruthlessly betrayed by her lover to torture (or so she claims)
----------------------------------------------------
Wait, what do you mean 'so she claims'? Was there something I missed here?

Leliana's song, and the part were she knows the divine personally and could have been a spy all along.

[slashthedragon]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I like your idea from before:

To help those around him/her, to protect their family/village, or just to have a grand adventure perhaps?

Why couldn't there be a character who has a simple desire for heroism? Or is already an established hero, with some failures that have helped her grow instead of haunting her every waking moment? A brother/sister who's given haven even to apostates, or a dwarf who's shepherded escaped slaves through the Deep Roads, or a Dalish who protects his forest from bandits and saves even human travellers. None of those mean the character is a happy one, but possibly less in need of a psycological band-aid than what we're used to?

Definitely would love a companion or LI like this!

[TanithAeyrs]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...


On the whole though, I don't remember the DA:O characters angsting it up quite as much as the DA2 characters do. But it felt like DA:O left a lot more room for casual 'flavour' conversation, which might have helped the characters feel more well-rounded as people. In DA2 it was like every conversation with certain characters would always, always come back to their unhappy issues -- even in the romance scenes!

I have to agree with this.  There were a number of casual conversations with each of the DA:O characters that fleshed them out as individuals completely separate from their emotional issues.  DA2 tried to do this with the character banters.  While this was fun, it failed to give the characters the same rounded personalities that the DAO bunch had.

I don't mind having characters with emotional issues or haunted pasts, but it should not be the only thing that defines them.  Each of us is defined by our experiences, good or bad.  So to expect a character who is out of adolescence to not have had any negative life shaping experiences would feel out of place.  I'm not saying these things should define them, but a rounded character should have been shaped by his/her past.  Even a spoiled princess should have a tale of woe about the pea under her mattress.  It would be interesting to see a character shaped by something that he/she witnessed but did not personally experience, or influenced strongly by a heroic or villanous tale to the point that the character shaped his or her life around it. 

One of my favorite characters ever was Minsc from BG1 and BG2.  He was not bogged down by loosing his witch (except to elect a party member as his new witch in BG2).  Sure, Minsc was rather simple, but he was so well written that he became one of the most memorable characters in a series filled to the brim with awesome companions.  I think the writing sucess with Minsc was in making him memorable and keeping him in character with all his quirks. 

I enjoy well fleshed out characters above all else.  Angst or no angst they should have complex personalities and emotional depth as well as unique personal quirks (Boo for Minsc, Zevran's leather fetish, Fenris' inability to read, Varric and Bianca). 

Modifié par TanithAeyrs, 07 avril 2012 - 03:29 .