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Companions- past to future


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#26
IndelibleJester

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caradoc2000 wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

A happy, drama free character.  Even if it's just one, could we have a character that does not have some traumatic backstory and is legitimately happy?

Why would such a character want to join your party? I.e. why would such character want to trade their blissful existence to the company of a bunch of troubled misfits and quite likely get themselves killed to boot.


I didn't really read the rest of the thread, but I thought I'd mention Nalia from BG2 had a perfectly happy existence (she was a rich noble, who once her quest was done could've had a relatively happy life) and chose instead to "help the needy".

Modifié par IndelibleJester, 07 avril 2012 - 08:23 .


#27
Darkwingduck

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I would like to see a character fall out of love with the Chantry. I might be mistaken but I don't think there has been a character who started as a devout lover of the Chantry and who came to genuinely hate it. I don't even need them to cast out the maker or anything but I would be interested in a slow boil change of someone dramatically changing their beliefs because of what they have seen or experienced.

I would be interested in a Duncan type character who didn't die. We sort of had a mentor or guardian in the form of Wynne but not to the extent I would have liked. The protagonist tends to be the toughest kid in the yard and that's fine but it doesn't mean they can't have a mentor who they confide in or go to for advice but also who travels with them, fights in battle and doesn't die.

#28
Shadow of Light Dragon

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@Tanith - Thanks to some comments at PAX, it sounds like there will be more room for casual conversation with NPCs in the next game. Hopefully this improves the problems we had with DA2. :)

IndelibleJester wrote...

I didn't really read the rest of the thread, but I thought I'd mention Nalia from BG2 had a perfectly happy existence (she was a rich noble, who once her quest was done could've had a relatively happy life) and chose instead to "help the needy".


Well...I don't remember Nalia very well, but IIRC your very first meeting with her is she's trying to recruit help to take back her family's keep. And then she finds out her father's been killed. And then at her father's funeral some family friend says he'll arrest her if she ever visits her home again. Yeah, cheerful. ;) Despite all that, she certainly came across as less mentally scarred than Imoen and every single LI in the game.

Yay, Minsc. :) It's like he proves you have to be mentally deficient to be happy in a fantasy RPG. XD

#29
LolaLei

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I think the difference between the angst in DA:O and DA2 was that although the characters in DA:O had deep rooted issues, they didn't let it rule them and it affected their personalities in more subtle ways (like Alistair deflecting his daddy issues with humour) rather than letting it consume him the way it did with characters like Ander's and Fenris.

That being said the characters in DA:O had pretty much lived with their angst all their lives and found different coping mechanisms, where as Anders and Fenris had only recently begun to experience such troubles: For Ander's it was when he let Justice co-habit his body, prior to that Ander's had always been a bit of a free spirited clown, and for Fenris it was when he managed to escape a life of slavery - he had no previous memories of his past only that he had been a slave to Denarius who mistreated him, so he was rediscovering all these new feelings that he has no idea how to handle etc. I can see how it would be hard to gain perspective when your life has been thrown into complete disarray.

For DA3 there should be a nice balance of both types of characters traits, but all of them should have an interesting back story, whether or not it's angst ridden is for Bioware to decide. So long as we get to talk to our companions indepth to get to know them and see what makes them tick then I'll be quite happy. However, one personal favourite I would like to see as a companion/LI in DA3 is Cullen, because already his back story is set up to prove very interesting and his personality could go either way. He's experienced a lot of anguish over the years and had his faith shaken multiple times through the likes of the Amell mage character in Origins who he was desperately in love with but could never act upon it, to the events of the Broken Circle quest and finally to Act 3 in Kirkwall where Meredith went mad and completely shook his faith in the Templar order, it would be interesting to watch his character develop throughout the course of DA3 as he battles with his heart and his head... and if the said PC wants to help him out a little with that then all the better! :P

Modifié par LolaLei, 10 avril 2012 - 06:43 .


#30
meanieweenie

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LolaLei wrote...

I think the difference between the angst in DA:O and DA2 was that although the characters in DA:O had deep rooted issues, they didn't let it rule them and it affected their personalities in more subtle ways (like Alistair deflecting his daddy issues with humour) rather than letting it consume him the way it did with characters like Ander's and Fenris.

That being said the characters in DA:O had pretty much lived with their angst all their lives and found different coping mechanisms, where as Anders and Fenris had only recently begun to experience such troubles: For Ander's it was when he let Justice co-habit his body, prior to that Ander's had always been a bit of a free spirited clown, and for Fenris it was when he managed to escape a life of slavery - he had no previous memories of his past only that he had been a slave to Denarius who mistreated him, so he was rediscovering all these new feelings that he has no idea how to handle etc. I can see how it would be hard to gain perspective when your life has been thrown into complete disarray.

For DA3 there should be a nice balance of both types of characters traits, but all of them should have an interesting back story, whether or not it's angst ridden is for Bioware to decide. So long as we get to talk to our companions indepth to get to know them and see what makes them tick then I'll be quite happy. However, one personal favourite I would like to see as a companion/LI in DA3 is Cullen, because already his back story is set up to prove very interesting and his personality could go either way. He's experienced a lot of anguish over the years and had his faith shaken multiple times through the likes of the Amell mage character in Origins who he was desperately in love with but could never act upon it, to the events of the Broken Circle quest and finally to Act 3 in Kirkwall where Meredith went mad and completely shook his faith in the Templar order, it would be interesting to watch his character develop throughout the course of DA3 as he battles with his heart and his head... and if the said PC wants to help him out a little with that then all the better! :P


This ^^

#31
Shadow of Light Dragon

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I think the difference between the angst in DA:O and DA2 was that although the characters in DA:O had deep rooted issues, they didn't let it rule them and it affected their personalities in more subtle ways (like Alistair deflecting his daddy issues with humour) rather than letting it consume him the way it did with characters like Ander's and Fenris.


I agree. The overt nature of DA2's companion issues made it a lot more obvious when contrasted with DA:O. I think it was a by-product of the more limited conversation model, where it felt like they only kept dialogue to core character development. The result was a continued emphasis oh key 'important' characteristics to pave the way for personal quests, with little cushioning save NPC banter.

For DA3 there should be a nice balance of both types of characters traits, but all of them should have an interesting back story, whether or not it's angst ridden is for Bioware to decide. So long as we get to talk to our companions indepth to get to know them and see what makes them tick then I'll be quite happy. However, one personal favourite I would like to see as a companion/LI in DA3 is Cullen, because already his back story is set up to prove very interesting and his personality could go either way. He's experienced a lot of anguish over the years and had his faith shaken multiple times through the likes of the Amell mage character in Origins who he was desperately in love with but could never act upon it, to the events of the Broken Circle quest and finally to Act 3 in Kirkwall where Meredith went mad and completely shook his faith in the Templar order, it would be interesting to watch his character develop throughout the course of DA3 as he battles with his heart and his head... and if the said PC wants to help him out a little with that then all the better!


Cullen didn't make a blip on my radar in DA:O, but I liked him in DA2. Considering the first game I was worried that his experiences would lead him to be an angst-ball at best, and an antagonist at worst, but despite what happened he was almost *normal*, and his views on mages were better than I expected. Even with Kirkwall blowing up he'll support sparing mages who beg for mercy, and even challenge his templar superior instead of blindly killing things. I agree he'd be an interesting character to explore further -- but only because he came across as stronger and more balanced than I feared he'd be written. If he's turned into a basketcase after DA2 then I'll pass. ;) Depression is catching.

#32
Corker

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It's a bit of a balance thing. Half the companions in DA2 have all-consuming issues. Any single one is an interesting study in obsession, whether it's the revolutionary and his cause, the fugitive and his quest for freedom/revenge, or the scholar and her object of study.

All three of them together, with the *other* obsession themes/motifs in the game (Quentin/wife, Bartrand/idol, as the two biggest off the top of my head), feels like a bit of an overdose on people lacking perspective.

#33
JLyric10

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Merril has no future. If DA3 can teach us anything, it's that curiousity killed the idiot (I like cats too much to insult them). I want to see Fenris get a change of heart with mages in DA3, but... considering his history I doubt that'll happen.Varric and Avaline seem like the most well adjusted. Isabella is just a bad girl <<. Doesn't matter if Anders lives or dies at the end of DA2, I think we won't see "him" in DA3 (cough*Justice*cough). Sebastian should be DA3 material. I'd like to see him in future games.

#34
sylvanaerie

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Corker wrote...

Wouldn't Aveline fit this bill?


She's driven to positive works, but I wouldn't call her happy. :) She's largely affected by her husband's death until Donnic comes along.

Maybe "happy" is the wrong word; "balanced, able to live through and past bad events."  Aveline has a tragic thing happen; her husband has to be killed.  And then, four years later, she's moving on, involved in her community, making positive changes for Kirkwall as a whole.  She's not "wheee!" happy, but she has agency in her own life and seems satisfied with where she's taking it.

Edit: Not that just because there's been one, there shouldn't be more.  I loved Aveline!


Avs and Varric remain my two favourite characters of DA2! I suppose I'm against the supposition that characters must have a deep dark secret, horrible vice, internal conflict, teh dramaz, or something tragic in their past to be interesting. Everyone has baggage in some shape or form, but they don't have to be running from it or prey for it to have an awesome backstory. They just need a good writer. ;)



Quoting this, because--yea.  This is why Varric and Aveline are my two favorite companions in DA2.  Both have issues that keep them feeling "realistic" instead of sucking black hole of death emo-angst mode (Fenris/Anders).  There is zero character development on (unromanced) Fenris (Hawke only managing to get him to budge on mages enough to support Hawke IF you get his affection up to max), Anders only developing in as much as by Act 3 he's a broken, raving lunatic out for templar-priestly blood.  Not sure that qualifies but *shrug* at least it's different from the way he is in Act 1 (and a far cry from his Awakening self).  Merrill and Isabela fall middle ground I think in that their sillyness/happy go lucky attitude seems to be more a cover for deeper feelings, only breaking down, and showing their true faces when things hit the fan.  At least that seems more realistic to me than someone who never displays any other emotion but 'anger'.  I also have to acknowlege that Sebastian, too, seems pretty well rounded and strong in his faith, (if not following all the precepts too well).  He has his issues but they don't break him, unfortunately I found him to be the least interesting of the companions--though admittedly a large part of my disappointment was hoping the 'secret companion' was going to be Nathaniel considering at one point (Before Awakenings) Nate was actually IN the Free Marches.  Of the Hawke siblings, I felt Carver is the more 'realistically' written of the two, and undergoes some wonderful character development if made a Warden, though I love both of them.  Bethany seems so sweet that when she goes all bitter in Acts 2 and 3 (regardless of her path) it seemed almost out of character for her.

Happy? Not sure I want to see a companion who has no 'problems' in life to get them down on occasion.  Every single one of the DAO's companions had something that could be considered a problem, though some had an easier time dealing with it, and none were as broken as Anders/Fenris.  Zevran had Crows out for his blood, Alistair had his issues with abandonment--which I think was in part why he reacted so poorly to Loghain's betrayal, Leliana had Marjolaine out for her blood, Sten murdered an innocent family (kids included) over his stupid sword (an issue stemming from his culture), Oghren had a wife who abandoned him for another woman AND the Deep Roads in her obsessive quest for the Anvil, Morrigan had issues stemming from an isolated upbringing with an abomination mother.  Of them all Wynne had the least personal problems i think.  Yes, she had a spirit inside her, but she seemed to be pretty content/accepting of that, and one small regret from the past you can help her work out. 

Additionally the DAO companions and Varric and Aveline had much more well rounded conversations, not dwelling on the whole obsession thing the DA2 companions seem to dwell on for the entire six/seven years Hawke knows them, like one long unending broken record.  Perhaps they did on occasion speak to Hawke about something not related to their issues, but sadly those conversations weren't included in the game. Aveline in particular seems very well rounded, pragmatic. "It is what it is" and she gives the best post mom's death convo of them all.

I think I'd definitely like to see more Varric/Aveline's in the DA games, well balanced, well written, with some issues (that don't grind them into the angst-stone).  Had they been romanceable, these were the two I would have chosen in the game.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 13 mai 2012 - 01:40 .


#35
M0RD3CA1 VII

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slashthedragon wrote...

I was wondering, what would people like to see in the companion characters for DA:3?

First, let me say that even though I *love* the characters from DA:2, I really came to love them through reading fan fics.  I felt like the game laid the ground work for awesome characters, but didn't always follow through, leaving several feeling very 'one note'. 

That being said, I'd like to see the following:

1) Characters that show growth or changes in mind.  If a character hates or loves 'x' at the beginning (mages, elves, whatever), by the end, show an attitude change depending on interactions and events.  There is nothing wrong with having a character hate 'x' from start to finish, but we've seen a lot of that in 2.
2) A happy, drama free character.  Even if it's just one, could we have a character that does not have some traumatic backstory and is legitimately happy?  Isabela came close, but even then she had the issue of her previous marriage/abusive husband. 
3) Less angsty characters.  If there can't be at least one happy companion, can there be at least a decrease in the angst of the characters overall?

I look forward to reading other people's thoughts!


The #1 issue with a companion without some type of turmoil or inner conflict is that they make for very stoic characters, not to mention ... why would a normal happy person want to run off on a mad quest that will probably get them killed? Unless that person is a mercenary, who probably have their own issues, there'd be no reason for the character to want to follow you.

Alistair followed you because you were the only other Grey Warden left ...
Morrigan followed you because Flemeth told her to ...
Leliana ... Vision
Sten ... Life Debt, basically
Zevran ... Protection from the Crows
ETC ETC ETC ...

Every RPG I've ever played, the companions were messed up, wierd, different, crazy individuals ... and that's what makes them interesting. People in reality aren't stoic and happy and all normal ... we all have our junk, and we're all messed up in our own little ways. It's what makes us human.

In RECAP ...
 1) YES
2) NO
3) MAYBE

#36
M-Taylor

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chuckwells62 wrote...

I've previously liked how Awakening and Dragon Age 2 built a connection to what came before by incorporating some party members with ties to earlier content.

I have no idea if that will continue, but doing so created a nice "bridge" for fans of the franchise. If I had the ear of the development team, then I would suggest that despite select perceptions of DA2, I would like to see any of the following characters return in Dragon Age 3 as party members: Meeran, Athenril, Charade, Maraas, or Feynriel. Maybe Cassandra, but only maybe.


It's good unless they completely railroad the character.

No matter how much someone might try, I think people would inevitably accept that Anders character was fundamentally changed for the purpose of slotting him into the plot. Sure, I can accept it given the context but I don't like it and I wouldn't want it to happen to any of the other characters.

Could you imagine Morrigan returning as a completely selfless and loving character, for example? No, her fan base loves her for being the pragmatic, slightly ruthless power driven mage. The same could be said for the old Anders.. (the amount of times I've read 'I romanced him 'cause I liked his character in Awakenings, but he broke my heart' or something along those lines is slightly ridiculous at this point >.>)

#37
robertthebard

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slashthedragon wrote...

I was wondering, what would people like to see in the companion characters for DA:3?

First, let me say that even though I *love* the characters from DA:2, I really came to love them through reading fan fics.  I felt like the game laid the ground work for awesome characters, but didn't always follow through, leaving several feeling very 'one note'. 

That being said, I'd like to see the following:

1) Characters that show growth or changes in mind.  If a character hates or loves 'x' at the beginning (mages, elves, whatever), by the end, show an attitude change depending on interactions and events.  There is nothing wrong with having a character hate 'x' from start to finish, but we've seen a lot of that in 2.
2) A happy, drama free character.  Even if it's just one, could we have a character that does not have some traumatic backstory and is legitimately happy?  Isabela came close, but even then she had the issue of her previous marriage/abusive husband. 
3) Less angsty characters.  If there can't be at least one happy companion, can there be at least a decrease in the angst of the characters overall?

I look forward to reading other people's thoughts!

Fenris fought willingly to free the mages for me.  He still hates 'em, but he wouldn't abandon me, and we weren't even "involved".

Varric kinda meets 2 and 3.  However, taking into account that people are what they live, how boring would a "I've never even broken a nail" character be?

"Hiya happy character, what's going on?"  "Oh, look, more roses"...

#38
Spedfrom

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I trust Bioware to make interesting characters. Even DA2, while a subpar RPG/game for them, still has very appealing characters. As long as we don't get 2 constantly depressed main companions again, it should be alright.
What I want to underline is that there needs to be plenty more party banter. Increase it in number and variety. It's one of the reasons why the series is so fun and it's an excellent way of making us relate to the characters, be that love, hate, indifference or anything in-between. I ALWAYS stop doing whatever I am doing just to listen to them, because I don't want to miss a thing. Party banter is usually very well written, it can be funny, sad, curious, raise questions, what have you. It's absolutely delicious and I simply must have MOAR!

#39
BioticDeviantx7

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What I would really enjoy seeing is characters from the previous two games who were more or less secondary or supporting characters (such as Connor, Feynriel, Cassandra, Charade, ect.) playing a more prominent role in the third game and even becoming companions. Also I would really love to see characters who our Wardens and Hawkes met as children, all grown up and having more important roles in the series, this is one of the reasons I loved the concept of Dragon age 2 being in a ten year period, children like Connor from origins would now be in their 20's and I think it would be a good symbol of how much time has past and what affect we had on this younger generation's lives now that the're stepping up and fighting this war.

#40
Parmida

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Well, my opinions are not strictly about companions, but other people as well:

1.I really liked it that we could pick all of our companions at the act 1 and were able to have them from the start of the adventure to the end and I like to be able to pick them at the beginning of the game through some quests in the future games as well.

2.Why not give a first name to the protagonist too ?
Well I really would like to have this in the game. the first name is used by the people that the protagonist knows them and is close to them (companions,LI,friends...etc) and the last name is used in formal conversations between protagonist and the person who doesn't know him very well. (regular people,arls, soldiers...etc)
It really creeps me out when my LI calls me by my last name, and I think it would be a very nice addition.

3.We should be able to start the romance at any time we want (in my case from the start) I really liked that in DA:O that and being able to talk to your companions at any time.

4.In DA:O and DA2 nobody cared about it that your character is a blood mage or a templar, it should change.

#41
Renmiri1

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Corker wrote...

It's a bit of a balance thing. Half the companions in DA2 have all-consuming issues. Any single one is an interesting study in obsession, whether it's the revolutionary and his cause, the fugitive and his quest for freedom/revenge, or the scholar and her object of study.

All three of them together, with the *other* obsession themes/motifs in the game (Quentin/wife, Bartrand/idol, as the two biggest off the top of my head), feels like a bit of an overdose on people lacking perspective.


That obssession and angst was all around Kirkwall and was something I really liked in DA2. It was like watching an impending train wreck in slow motion... You could see everyone in town getting more stressed and obsessed and Hawke, the Viscount, Elthina and otheres trying in vain to cool things down. Like tap dancing atop a powder keg. It was fun :D

But ya, another high tension game would be a bit too much. Maybe have some happy first act and some happy companions would be fun, before we get to the crisis at hand :wub:

#42
jhood_shsu

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I think Minsc and Boo need to make a BioWare comeback. That will give you the "happy" character (nevermind that he's insane) and the smartest hamster in gaming.

#43
Foolsfolly

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Corker wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I'd like to see a character who's generally happy and isn't driven by angst, family issues or a tragic past. A good writer could make them interesting if they tried. Happy people can be incredibly driven and are, on the whole, much more active in their community or abroad than the depressed and self-absorbed.


Wouldn't Aveline fit this bill?

Maybe "happy" is the wrong word; "balanced, able to live through and past bad events."  Aveline has a tragic thing happen; her husband has to be killed.  And then, four years later, she's moving on, involved in her community, making positive changes for Kirkwall as a whole.  She's not "wheee!" happy, but she has agency in her own life and seems satisfied with where she's taking it.

Edit: Not that just because there's been one, there shouldn't be more.  I loved Aveline!


I really dug Aveline because of this. The only time I don't have her around is if I'm playing a mercenary/roguish character. Aveline doesn't get along well with those characters.

But I do like how well written Aveline was. There's a clear arc, she's your best friend (right up there with Varric). I have nothing against the other characters like Fenris, Merrill, or Sebastian but those characters tend to feel much more like therapy patients than friends. More so than any of the characters in Origins, for example.

I don't feel one type is better than the other. But I hope there are more Varric/Aveline characters in the future. Characters who sometimes need help but tend to drive their own development themselves which leaves the player to define the relationship with that character and not just who that character can become.

As for the future... I think it would be nice to have an either/or companion. Like Character A or Character B choice. The easiest way to do that would be to have one of them for one side or faction and the other character on the opposite. I don't think BioWare's touched that since Death's Hand in Jade Empire.

...although, perhaps Loghain counts as "Evil Alister." ...and there's Samara and her daughter in Mass Effect 2... point is I'd like it where the choice isn't "good variation" and "evil variation" of the same type of character.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 10 août 2012 - 05:37 .


#44
HowlingSiren

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I think the problem with many characters coming across as one-dimensional in DA2 is because all of your interaction with them was limited to quest-giving, which revolved around a specific problem. This should be resolved with free interactions like in DA:O or Mass Effect. The characters were a little more fleshed out through party banter which covered a few more topics, but to me, it wasn't as good as in DA:O because the main obsession kept coming up over and over again. I don't particularly need happy, but please bring back funny male LIs à la Alistair or Zevran!

#45
caradoc2000

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Nina88 wrote...

I think the problem with many characters coming across as one-dimensional in DA2 is because all of your interaction with them was limited to quest-giving, which revolved around a specific problem. This should be resolved with free interactions like in DA:O or Mass Effect.

To be fair, you do get plenty of "busy with calibrations" responses with free interactions in Mass Effect.

#46
HowlingSiren

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caradoc2000 wrote...

Nina88 wrote...

I think the problem with many characters coming across as one-dimensional in DA2 is because all of your interaction with them was limited to quest-giving, which revolved around a specific problem. This should be resolved with free interactions like in DA:O or Mass Effect.

To be fair, you do get plenty of "busy with calibrations" responses with free interactions in Mass Effect.


True, but still, there were free interactions that allowed you to talk about something beyond the context of a quest. That was practically non-existent in DA2.

#47
Larabob

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I'd love to see past characters make a cameo in DA3, but I can't think of any I'd like to have as a companion again. I loved the way the makers of the game took small characters from Origins and brought them into the second game (eg. Merrill) and would love to see that happen again. Agree about Connor showing up, but I killed him in one of my playthroughs so not sure how that would work...

Not sure if anyone has mentioned her, but I'd love to see Tallis as a permanent companion.