348 réponses à ce sujet

[fwc577]

InvincibleHero wrote...

It tried to make a factual argumen,t but failed to be persuasive because it was all based on subjective opinion. Each and every plot hole can be closed by BW if they choose to address them. Just because an end user assumes a plot hole exists that doesn't make it fact.

This is possibly the dumbest thing I've read on these forums.

Plot holes aren't subjective.  They are facts.

Looke at the words.  Plot---Hole

A hole in the plot.

Nobody "assumes" there is a plot hole somewhere.  A plot hole is brought about because something happens in the story that goes against what has alread been established by the rest of the story.

If the KKK suddenly decided they love black people, support the black panthers and NAACP, and want to help restore the ghettos to nice neghborhoods.  The actions of the KKK have shown that this is completely opposite of their pre-stated goals and actions and if they suddenly wake up one day any not a single soul in the world knows or understands why then we have a plot hole.

The same goes for Mass Effect 3.

Just one example of a plot hole.

In Mass Effect 2, Shepard Dies, why?  Because he has to go from a lower deck on the Normandy, all the way to the cockpit, pull Joker from a chair and shove him in an escape pod all because Joker doesn't want to give up.  If that is the case, then why in the hell is he running from the fight in the final cutscene?  Some people say, well he romanced EDI blah blah blah.  Hey, I shut that idea down in my playthrough yet in the end he is still running from the battle.

This isn't the only plothole in the game either, this is just an example of one of many plotholes, which I feel this statement needs to be repeated, that aren't subjective.

[InvincibleHero]

Kataigida wrote...

I'm pretty sure that when a part of the story (like many parts of the ending) goes against the plot of (at least the prior two) game(s) it is called a plot hole. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exsist.

[Edit]

And if that's the case, why doesn't BW choose to address them? And even then, a plot hole in a story should not be 'closed' by an out of game address.

Read Myzuka's blog post stickied if you haven't. They promise to give explaination and closure on such things. Maybe they don't address everything but the plot holes were not the issue of most of the retake movement.

Why not? If it gets answered then that is good enough after all the author has facts you do not know. They cna reveal them as they wish.

[Father_Jerusalem]

fwc577 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

It tried to make a factual argumen,t but failed to be persuasive because it was all based on subjective opinion. Each and every plot hole can be closed by BW if they choose to address them. Just because an end user assumes a plot hole exists that doesn't make it fact.

This is possibly the dumbest thing I've read on these forums.

Plot holes aren't subjective.  They are facts.

Looke at the words.  Plot---Hole

A hole in the plot.

Nobody "assumes" there is a plot hole somewhere.  A plot hole is brought about because something happens in the story that goes against what has alread been established by the rest of the story.

If the KKK suddenly decided they love black people, support the black panthers and NAACP, and want to help restore the ghettos to nice neghborhoods.  The actions of the KKK have shown that this is completely opposite of their pre-stated goals and actions and if they suddenly wake up one day any not a single soul in the world knows or understands why then we have a plot hole.

The same goes for Mass Effect 3.

Just one example of a plot hole.

In Mass Effect 2, Shepard Dies, why?  Because he has to go from a lower deck on the Normandy, all the way to the cockpit, pull Joker from a chair and shove him in an escape pod all because Joker doesn't want to give up.  If that is the case, then why in the hell is he running from the fight in the final cutscene?  Some people say, well he romanced EDI blah blah blah.  Hey, I shut that idea down in my playthrough yet in the end he is still running from the battle.

This isn't the only plothole in the game either, this is just an example of one of many plotholes, which I feel this statement needs to be repeated, that aren't subjective.

Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

[Kataigida]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Kataigida wrote...

I'm pretty sure that when a part of the story (like many parts of the ending) goes against the plot of (at least the prior two) game(s) it is called a plot hole. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exsist.

[Edit]

And if that's the case, why doesn't BW choose to address them? And even then, a plot hole in a story should not be 'closed' by an out of game address.

Read Myzuka's blog post stickied if you haven't. They promise to give explaination and closure on such things. Maybe they don't address everything but the plot holes were not the issue of most of the retake movement.

Why not? If it gets answered then that is good enough after all the author has facts you do not know. They cna reveal them as they wish.

If you read between the PR-lines, they have been very careful not to promise anything. He only said that they have some things in the works that will help clear things up. And the plot holes are a good portion of the retake movement, right up their with the lack of closure.

And any form of media should be a complete work. If you have to go to the creator in order to have important questions answered about the piece, then either the piece is not complete, or it is broken.

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

It tried to make a factual argumen,t but failed to be persuasive because it was all based on subjective opinion. Each and every plot hole can be closed by BW if they choose to address them. Just because an end user assumes a plot hole exists that doesn't make it fact.

This is possibly the dumbest thing I've read on these forums.

Plot holes aren't subjective.  They are facts.

Looke at the words.  Plot---Hole

A hole in the plot.

Nobody "assumes" there is a plot hole somewhere.  A plot hole is brought about because something happens in the story that goes against what has alread been established by the rest of the story.

If the KKK suddenly decided they love black people, support the black panthers and NAACP, and want to help restore the ghettos to nice neghborhoods.  The actions of the KKK have shown that this is completely opposite of their pre-stated goals and actions and if they suddenly wake up one day any not a single soul in the world knows or understands why then we have a plot hole.

The same goes for Mass Effect 3.

Just one example of a plot hole.

In Mass Effect 2, Shepard Dies, why?  Because he has to go from a lower deck on the Normandy, all the way to the cockpit, pull Joker from a chair and shove him in an escape pod all because Joker doesn't want to give up.  If that is the case, then why in the hell is he running from the fight in the final cutscene?  Some people say, well he romanced EDI blah blah blah.  Hey, I shut that idea down in my playthrough yet in the end he is still running from the battle.

This isn't the only plothole in the game either, this is just an example of one of many plotholes, which I feel this statement needs to be repeated, that aren't subjective.

Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

It's called an analogy.  Off you go and read up on that big word, see you in a few hours.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Salis777 wrote...


It's called an analogy.  Off you go and read up on that big word, see you in a few hours.

It's called the KKK. Off you go to read up on the history of this particular organization so you can understand why using them in a comparison to a video game is just, you know, enormously offensive.

See you in a few hours.



P.S. Stop. Stalking. Me. Jeez.

Modifié par Father_Jerusalem, 26 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[13Dannyboy13]

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly. 

2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.  

3.) There are many questions that still need answering and plot points that need settling.  That's pretty much what DLC is and with no loose ends there would be no conceivable reason to release more content.  You all knew there would be DLC.  


By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

The first point is your opinion, which I don't agree with, but everyone has the right to their own opinion. I would hardly call 3 barely varied endings that make the choices made throughout the entire trilogy count for nothing varied endings.
As for the second point, again that's opinion, I could care less about a happy ending, and more about an ending with real closure, having one "happy" ending really wouldn't hurt anything, it might have added a bit of variety to the three very similar endings.
As for the third point I completely disagree, DLC is meant to ADD to the game, not cover up plot holes and give us things that should've been in the game to begin with. EA is already bad enough with DLC with their day one dlc made to punish those who don't buy the game new just so they can get more money. Any add-on should enhance the finished game itself, whether it be a post-ending dlc, or sidequests etc. There is no time at all that you should ever have to buy an ending to game that should be finished. I am interested in how this plays out, if the new dlc has a pricetag attatched to it I can see things getting much worse instead of better.

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...


It's called an analogy.  Off you go and read up on that big word, see you in a few hours.

It's called the KKK. Off you go to read up on the history of this particular organization so you can understand why using them in a comparison to a video game is just, you know, enormously offensive.

See you in a few hours.



P.S. Stop. Stalking. Me. Jeez.

Don't flatter yourself.  And seriously, you make the worst arguments lol.  You fail to understand on a basic level what an analogy is and actually get OFFENDED by it.  My god.

You said he equated them to ME3, when he used an analogy.  You are seriously just too stupid and/or uneducated to be posting dude lol.

Modifié par Salis777, 26 mars 2012 - 04:25 .

[fwc577]

macarius5 wrote...

Hi, this is already posted in the other threads of this forum. I would like to share this again for those who have not read this article. Although it is long, it has elaborately and articulately explain why (including myself) find the ending empty (frustration).

I love mass effect, i think I am one of the fans who have connected with the characters. Who has invested our emotions with the game. The reason why many find this game amazing. Hope bioware team had read this.

www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html

Pretty much the single best thing I've read regarding the ending contrevoursy, thanks!

[Father_Jerusalem]

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...


It's called an analogy.  Off you go and read up on that big word, see you in a few hours.

It's called the KKK. Off you go to read up on the history of this particular organization so you can understand why using them in a comparison to a video game is just, you know, enormously offensive.

See you in a few hours.



P.S. Stop. Stalking. Me. Jeez.

Don't flatter yourself.  And seriously, you make the worst arguments lol.  You fail to understand on a basic level what an analogy is and actually get OFFENDED by it.  My god.

So, you have no idea what the KKK is. Gotcha. 

Done with you now.

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...


It's called an analogy.  Off you go and read up on that big word, see you in a few hours.

It's called the KKK. Off you go to read up on the history of this particular organization so you can understand why using them in a comparison to a video game is just, you know, enormously offensive.

See you in a few hours.



P.S. Stop. Stalking. Me. Jeez.

Don't flatter yourself.  And seriously, you make the worst arguments lol.  You fail to understand on a basic level what an analogy is and actually get OFFENDED by it.  My god.

So, you have no idea what the KKK is. Gotcha. 

Done with you now.

derp i seen KKK derp i'n mad

[fwc577]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and your low IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Modifié par fwc577, 26 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[Salis777]

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

I think he's illustrated several times he can't comprehend basic English, I guess that's why he keeps coming back and spouting complete bull**** everyday

[Rockworm503]

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...


It's called an analogy.  Off you go and read up on that big word, see you in a few hours.

It's called the KKK. Off you go to read up on the history of this particular organization so you can understand why using them in a comparison to a video game is just, you know, enormously offensive.

See you in a few hours.



P.S. Stop. Stalking. Me. Jeez.

Don't flatter yourself.  And seriously, you make the worst arguments lol.  You fail to understand on a basic level what an analogy is and actually get OFFENDED by it.  My god.

So, you have no idea what the KKK is. Gotcha. 

Done with you now.

derp i seen KKK derp i'n mad

This is pretty much his every posts.

"I see one negative thing in post I will hone in on that and ignore everything else said"
Your argument is invalid because KKK was mentioned.

[Father_Jerusalem]

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Uh huh. You're the one equating a video game to the KKK, dude. That says all it really needs to say about your IQ. There's a BILLION other analogies you could have made, but nope... right to the KKK. 

I mean, seriously? It's not something that would cross MY mind, but then, I know I'm not a racist douche.

[fwc577]

Salis777 wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

I think he's illustrated several times he can't comprehend basic English, I guess that's why he keeps coming back and spouting complete bull**** everyday

Yeah, I saw his response and I hit reply.  Didn't realize someone was already argueing with him on this point.

It's funny when people try to use big words they don't understand lol.

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Uh huh. You're the one equating a video game to the KKK, dude. That says all it really needs to say about your IQ. There's a BILLION other analogies you could have made, but nope... right to the KKK. 

I mean, seriously? It's not something that would cross MY mind, but then, I know I'm not a racist douche.

Fail comprehension 101.

[Rockworm503]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Uh huh. You're the one equating a video game to the KKK, dude. That says all it really needs to say about your IQ. There's a BILLION other analogies you could have made, but nope... right to the KKK. 

I mean, seriously? It's not something that would cross MY mind, but then, I know I'm not a racist douche.

Get off the internet right now and read a dictionary
You don't know what an analogy is or what equating is.
Come back to us when do.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Uh huh. You're the one equating a video game to the KKK, dude. That says all it really needs to say about your IQ. There's a BILLION other analogies you could have made, but nope... right to the KKK. 

I mean, seriously? It's not something that would cross MY mind, but then, I know I'm not a racist douche.

Fail comprehension 101.

Fail anti-stalking laws 101.

[Salis777]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Uh huh. You're the one equating a video game to the KKK, dude. That says all it really needs to say about your IQ. There's a BILLION other analogies you could have made, but nope... right to the KKK. 

I mean, seriously? It's not something that would cross MY mind, but then, I know I'm not a racist douche.

Fail comprehension 101.

Fail anti-stalking laws 101.

You and your really smart lawyer should get right on that sh*t.

[fwc577]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Uh huh. You're the one equating a video game to the KKK, dude. That says all it really needs to say about your IQ. There's a BILLION other analogies you could have made, but nope... right to the KKK. 

I mean, seriously? It's not something that would cross MY mind, but then, I know I'm not a racist douche.

Roflmao, your an idiot, shut your mouth, get your GED, and start knocking down some walls.

EQUATE - to regard, treat, or represent as equivalent

ANALOGY - a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based

The difference is, when you Equate one thing to another, you are saying essentiall the are equal, in no way shape or form did I say Mass Effect is kind of lke the KKK movement.  The two things have absolutely nothing in common, well maybe Cerberus has something in common with the KKK if you consider the whole "White Power" compared to "Human Superiority" but in my above post, I don't at all "equate the KKK to ME3"

When you use something as an analogy, you are saying they have like features.  In my little story, if the KKK suddenly stopped being evil people and became good tolarent people for no reason other than "just because" that would be a plot hole, which is something Mass Effect has a lot of, and plot holes aren't subjective, they are obvious fact.

Now stop trolling.

Modifié par fwc577, 26 mars 2012 - 04:35 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

fwc577 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Aaaaaaaand we're now equating ME3 to the KKK.

Now leaving Rationaleville, next stop Crazy-fking-town. Everyone who's sane, this is your stop. Off the bus.

Re-read it and pull off our ignorant/idiotic visors and realize what is being said.

I am in no way equating ME3 to the KKK and it your IQ level shows if you think that.

What I am doing is providing an extreme example that pretty much everyone should be able to understand so that a person can understand what a plot hole is.  I am not saying that the Reapers are like the black people and Shepard is clearly a member of the KKK or making some stupid argument based on that.  This is what would be equating.  You should really learn what a word means before using it in a sentence smart guy.

Uh huh. You're the one equating a video game to the KKK, dude. That says all it really needs to say about your IQ. There's a BILLION other analogies you could have made, but nope... right to the KKK. 

I mean, seriously? It's not something that would cross MY mind, but then, I know I'm not a racist douche.

Roflmao, your an idiot, shut your mouth, get your GED, and start knocking down some walls.

EQUATE - to regard, treat, or represent as equivalent

ANALOGY - a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based

The difference is, when you Equate one thing to another, you are saying essentiall the are equal, in no way shape or form did I say Mass Effect is kind of lke the KKK movement.  The two things have absolutely nothing in common, well maybe Cerberus has something in common with the KKK if you consider the whole "White Power" compared to "Human Superiority" but in my above post, I don't at all "equate the KKK to ME3"

When you use something as an analogy, you are saying they have like features.  In my little story, if the KKK suddenly stopped being evil people and became good tolarent people for no reason other than "just because" that would be a plot hole, which is something Mass Effect has a lot of, and plot holes aren't subjective, they are obvious fact.

Now stop trolling.

And there we go with the personal attacks. That's all I needed, thanks!

[InvincibleHero]

Kataigida wrote...

If you read between the PR-lines, they have been very careful not to promise anything. He only said that they have some things in the works that will help clear things up. And the plot holes are a good portion of the retake movement, right up their with the lack of closure.

And any form of media should be a complete work. If you have to go to the creator in order to have important questions answered about the piece, then either the piece is not complete, or it is broken.

I agree somewhat.

So user interpretation has no part in a product? They left it ambiguous to let us decide what happened without connecting all the dots. They left you room to role-play and people don't like it. I don't consider that broken.

It is like literature instructors and I had many in high school and college and yet each teacher taught that the same works such as Beowulf, The Raven, or another work had these themes and the author meant this yet they were not the same. Now if we could dial up Poe or the actual authors they might say I meant nothing deep by that you just read into it and made a wrong assumption or some other theme. There will always be a different interpretation to works of art by each end user.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 26 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[Kataigida]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And there we go with the personal attacks. That's all I needed, thanks!

No offense, but I'm pretty sure that personal attack started many a pages ago.

[fwc577]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


And there we go with the personal attacks. That's all I needed, thanks!

You should re-read your own posts and realize you are falsly claiming I lack rational and am crazy when you don't understand a simply concept.

The personal attacks started there jack.