348 réponses à ce sujet

[Robhuzz]

I'm tired of arguing with people who believe the ending was fine and are determined to defend BioWare.

Here's why the ending is not fine. Enjoy the read.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 25 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[Gigamantis]

A lie is when someone says or promises something knowing it is not true, and that is what BioWare did. And no, none of it affected the ending. I did two playthroughs, one where I did literally every little thing possible. Then I did another ME1 through ME3 playthrough doing the absolute bare minimum. Chose the same ending for both with the ending being exactly the same. And yes, it is a fact that they did indeed lie about several aspects. I had no expectations beyond DAO, ME1, and ME2 quality, but I didn't.

I'm not being emotional, I'm being logical and factual. If I were being emotional, I wouldn't be taking my time trying to word things just right or have a cool head when doing so. And it isn't exaggurating; any novice writer knows not to completely change the story or plot in the final hour, but they did. They were going for one story, changed it, and then complain that we're trying to compromise their artistic integrity when we're not; the fact is that we're asking them to re-establish their artistic integrity, not compromise it.

Yes, it is very ridiculous when I see:
Rating- 0/10
Reason- Something on how graphics are "2010/2011 graphics" (idiotic reason), "too hard" (wtf??), or just a "Game sucks". Then again, democracy and logic tend to be somewhat against human nature at times so I suppose these "reasons" are understandable in some twisted way.

Everything in ME3 effected which of the 3 endings you get.  From there ME1 effected the story development of ME2 and ME2 effected ME3.  It was all tied together and all had a cumulative effect.  Your complaint is the effect wasn't pronounced enough, which was based on your expectations.  You weren't lied to, you were just disappointed because you expected more.

Also, artistic integrity is their vision and nothing more, and you can't make them change their vision without compromising the integrity.  Chances are DLC is going to tie this all together for everyone, and even if you don't like the way they approached it this isn't your project.  They're the artists. 

The problem with peoples reviews is that there's rarely emotional levity in their reviews.  If you just got done dying 50 times on insanity your first instinct is to run to the review site and give the game a zero based on how angry you are at that moment.  That's what happened when a lot of people read the leaked ending and that's what people are still doing about the ending.

I still think the majority of this is about hurt feelings over the sad ending and the rest is just fervent attempts at rationalizing those feelings. 

Modifié par Gigamantis, 25 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[Gigamantis]

nevar00 wrote...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to." They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them. If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed. Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly.

Someone hasn't read that list of quotes from Hudson...

3 of them? I thought there were supposed to be a lot more. Also some that weren't A, B, C. They lied, it's that simple.

Gamers should realize that they can't take quotes in development as absolute facts that will never change.  Do you realize how many times Blizzard "lied" to everyone by making mechanic changes in the beta for Diablo3?  

[Goldrock]

Ending are fine imo they all deemed to depend on the players perspective me i seen an ending where shepard was possible indoctrinated the whole time mainly because he had all the symptom of indoctrination starteing all the way back to me2 thats just the way i seen it other people seemed to lack imagination couldnt perceive anything out of it so they raged and whined online till they get their way hell we mise well go whine to some author and directors now to see if we can get some changes to some movies and books too because theres tons i didnt like we may start a new trend if bioware gives in .

[ZombifiedJake]

If you're new to this thread: leave. The guy's an idiot.

[bigbade]

Gigamantis wrote...

bigbade wrote...

1) Gameplay changes maybe, that's what a beta test is for. I highly doubt they're rewriting their story due to beta feedback with a may release date. It wasn't a massive spoiler, it was a way of presenting how far our choice's consequences could go. Assuming a "failure" ending when faced with galactic annihilation isn't far-fetched.
2) Who's talking about plot points? They could very easily keep pumping out DLC with an ending that keeps up with the series logic from the past 2.95 games. How does 2/3 endings where Shepard, the protagonist, dies make this viable for dlc that expands on the ending?

3) I got an incomplete ending and far from a conclusion. If you're happy with paying for an unfinished game and saying 'ah well, to be continued in dlc!' then that's your problem and is in fact why the gaming industry is why it is the way it is, because you let them get away with that.

1.) ME3 didn't have a beta to test gameplay, but it's not just gameplay that's subject to change.  They're not done with the gameplay or the story until the game goes gold.  Until that time everything is subject to change.  That's the way it has to be and the way it'll always be.

2.) The ending of this game is the definitive end; DLC is just going to tie up loose ends.  That's all they can really do for new content when a series is completely over.

3.) You got a complete ending, there's just more content to be had to answer any lingering questions.  Again, that's how DLC works.  I understand you hate the entire concept of DLC because it should've just been in the game originally, but that's not how it works.  

1) Are you serious? Do you REALLY think that everything concerning the game is subject to change -6 months before release? Story is sealed a good 3 months before the game goes gold and that's already cutting it close. 

2) ...What? That doesn't even address my question, overlord is a fine example of DLC not expanding beyond the ending, since if you blew up the base you're technically not with cerberus anymore yet that's a cerberus mission. DLC can definitely be pre-end content and that's what bioware even stated. 

3) If there's more to explore then it's not complete. Would you buy a book where the last page is torn in half and you have to pay extra to get it? 

not sure if srs...

[Gigamantis]

ZombifiedJake wrote...

If you're new to this thread: leave. The guy's an idiot.

See, this is why the people condemning the ending are being considered irrational trolls.  Is that really all you have? 

[rfalzar]

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly. 

2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.  

3.) There are many questions that still need answering and plot points that need settling.  That's pretty much what DLC is and with no loose ends there would be no conceivable reason to release more content.  You all knew there would be DLC.  


By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

1) I'm sorry but I don't really see how different colored space magic explosions could be considered different endings. Yes they have different effects but with what we've come to expect from Mass Effect, the endings should vary greatly.

2) I'm glad you enjoyed the ending but many people did not and would like the option to have more closure among other things. For me personally, I loved everything up to that point as many have stated, but after seeing the ending I felt like all the accomplishments my Shepard made were essentially for nothing. A main theme throughout the previous 2 games and most of this one was that we could overcome the impossible odds through unity, and the ending of this one completely throws this idea out the window. As for happy ending, I'll admit I would like one, but I would like it to be an option, not mandatory. It should be the perfect ending, the one you're striving to achieve. My Shepard stated multiple times that his LI was one of the main reasons he was fighting against the Reapers, and to see a "perfect" ending that doesn't address was a great disappointment.

3) This was supposed to bring a fitting end and closure to Shepard's story and the ending now does not do this. Using the "planned DLC will bring closure to the ending now" argument is essentially saying they're shameless corporation releasing an unfinished product so people can buy the rest of it later. It'd be like finishing a truly amazing novel just to get to the last sentence and see that it says "Hope you enjoyed the book so far but you'll have to wait to buy the last chapter to finish this journey." It would isolate the fans because it makes it blatantly obvious that you no longer care about them and care solely about profit. DLC should only expand on things already in the story, not bring it to a close. EX: in ME2 you knew Liara was hunting the Shadow Broker so make DLC to involve hunting down the Shadow Broker. It worked. In comparison to ME2, the way they ended 3 would kinda be like after you beat the human reaper and Shep and his squad are laying in rubble in the collector base and then cutting to credits. Guess you'll have to wait for DLC huh?

As for your last statement, many of the upset fans have been fairly civil about voicing their disappointment in the ending. Please stop lumping them in with the few people taking it to far and giving everybody a bad name for it. And yes while the rest of the game is amazing, the ending puts a sour note on the whole franchise and I've found it difficult to pick up the controller and play it again. Why would I waste my time going through all of that just to be diappointed again? Replay value is a major selling point for games and I know I'm not the only who's finding it difficult to play again, so releasing a ending expansion or fix would solve this problem and be a great way to improve business on their end.

[Arik7]

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly. 

Based on your choiceS throughout the game, not on a single choice at the end, which really wasn't much of a choice at all.  

[Wynteryth]

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly.  

No.  We didn't get 3 of them.  The ending was the same in all 3.  

 2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.  

It's not my call to make whether it's a happy ending or not? I thought that was the point of an RPG? You know.. Role-Playing game.  That my decisions decide the outcome?  If the outcome is the same no matter what I decide, then I really haven't made a decision.  

  3.) There are many questions that still need answering and plot points that need settling.  That's pretty much what DLC is and with no loose ends there would be no conceivable reason to release more content.  You all knew there would be DLC.  

Mid-Game DLC will not change anything nor fix any loose ends.  Post-Game DLC might do that.  But it might now.  

  By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

By most people's admission, the game play was fantastic, but the ending was horrible and non-sensical.  It made all the decisions moot and worthless.  

What is embarrassing is people making excuses for a 10 minute segment that, for all intents and purposes, ruined a great game series and eliminated the want to replay the game through from ME1.  Because, what's the point if not matter what you decide, the ending is the same. 

Saying that the "ending is fine" is laughable and a joke.  

Modifié par Wynteryth, 25 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[Iamjdr]

But how did choices not effect the game? As I'm playing thru a defaultshep right now I'm seein what the game would be like without my choices from previous games it's like a completely different game

[Gigamantis]

bigbade wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

bigbade wrote...

1) Gameplay changes maybe, that's what a beta test is for. I highly doubt they're rewriting their story due to beta feedback with a may release date. It wasn't a massive spoiler, it was a way of presenting how far our choice's consequences could go. Assuming a "failure" ending when faced with galactic annihilation isn't far-fetched.
2) Who's talking about plot points? They could very easily keep pumping out DLC with an ending that keeps up with the series logic from the past 2.95 games. How does 2/3 endings where Shepard, the protagonist, dies make this viable for dlc that expands on the ending?

3) I got an incomplete ending and far from a conclusion. If you're happy with paying for an unfinished game and saying 'ah well, to be continued in dlc!' then that's your problem and is in fact why the gaming industry is why it is the way it is, because you let them get away with that.

1.) ME3 didn't have a beta to test gameplay, but it's not just gameplay that's subject to change.  They're not done with the gameplay or the story until the game goes gold.  Until that time everything is subject to change.  That's the way it has to be and the way it'll always be.

2.) The ending of this game is the definitive end; DLC is just going to tie up loose ends.  That's all they can really do for new content when a series is completely over.

3.) You got a complete ending, there's just more content to be had to answer any lingering questions.  Again, that's how DLC works.  I understand you hate the entire concept of DLC because it should've just been in the game originally, but that's not how it works.  

1) Are you serious? Do you REALLY think that everything concerning the game is subject to change -6 months before release? Story is sealed a good 3 months before the game goes gold and that's already cutting it close. 

2) ...What? That doesn't even address my question, overlord is a fine example of DLC not expanding beyond the ending, since if you blew up the base you're technically not with cerberus anymore yet that's a cerberus mission. DLC can definitely be pre-end content and that's what bioware even stated. 

3) If there's more to explore then it's not complete. Would you buy a book where the last page is torn in half and you have to pay extra to get it? 

not sure if srs...

1.) Everything about any game is subject to change right up until the game goes into printing, and with the inclusion of 1st day patching even beyond that point.  6 months before release?  Absolutely.  

2.) I've already stated it will likely be pre-end content but it will tie up any loose ends left by the existing ending.  That's the only avenue you can take with "new" content when the entire game is effectively over.  

3.) DLC is tearing pages out of the middle and/or end of the book and reselling them.  Whether you like that concept or not that's what DLC is in every game you've ever played.  

[Wynteryth]

Iamjdr wrote...

But how did choices not effect the game? As I'm playing thru a defaultshep right now I'm seein what the game would be like without my choices from previous games it's like a completely different game

While the game might be different, the outcome is stillt he same.  which runs contrary to reality.  

[ZombifiedJake]

Gigamantis wrote...

ZombifiedJake wrote...

If you're new to this thread: leave. The guy's an idiot.

See, this is why the people condemning the ending are being considered irrational trolls.  Is that really all you have? 

I'm not condemning the ending, I don't care if people like it or not, it's just annoying hearing stupid reasons for defending it. Tag your petty labels elsewhere.

[Gigamantis]

Wynteryth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly.  

No.  We didn't get 3 of them.  The ending was the same in all 3.  

 2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.  

It's not my call to make whether it's a happy ending or not? I thought that was the point of an RPG? You know.. Role-Playing game.  That my decisions decide the outcome?  If the outcome is the same no matter what I decide, then I really haven't made a decision.  

  3.) There are many questions that still need answering and plot points that need settling.  That's pretty much what DLC is and with no loose ends there would be no conceivable reason to release more content.  You all knew there would be DLC.  

Mid-Game DLC will not change anything nor fix any loose ends.  Post-Game DLC might do that.  But it might now.  

  By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

By most people's admission, the game play was fantastic, but the ending was horrible and non-sensical.  It made all the decisions moot and worthless.  

What is embarrassing is people making excuses for a 10 minute segment that, for all intents and purposes, ruined a great game series and eliminated the want to replay the game through from ME1.  Because, what's the point if not matter what you decide, the ending is the same. 

Saying that the "ending is fine" is laughable and a joke.  

1.) No, you got 3 different endings.  Whether you consider them different enough or not is subjective.

2.) No, that's not the point of an RPG.  In an RPG you're playing a role in a story someone else wrote.  

3.) Pre-ending DLC is perfectly capable of fixing loose-ends as is post-game depending on what the canon ending is.  You'll have to wait and see.  

[Iamjdr]

I've been to the end twice already this is my 3rd playthrough and just because the ending looks the same to us doesn't mean It feels the same for our sheps

[Gigamantis]

ZombifiedJake wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

ZombifiedJake wrote...

If you're new to this thread: leave. The guy's an idiot.

See, this is why the people condemning the ending are being considered irrational trolls.  Is that really all you have? 

I'm not condemning the ending, I don't care if people like it or not, it's just annoying hearing stupid reasons for defending it. Tag your petty labels elsewhere.

If my reasons were stupid you would have more than this to attack them with.  Sorry friend, you're just emotional and it's probably over the ending.  Pretending you're an objective observer is disingenuous. 

[Sarcastic Tasha]

There was part of me that wanted Shepard and the crew to give the Reapers a bloody good thrashing then live out the rest of their days as heroes, but realistically I didn't expect that to happen. I was ready for a grim ending with Shepard dying or maybe even the Reapers winning, it would have been sad but I could have respected that as an ending. My thoughts when I finished the game were just "what the hell?" which is really not what I expected and I assume its not what the writers were going for.

[ZephyrAM]

OP, you're arguing that we weren't lied to, that we got everything they said we would, that everything we do in the ME games 'does' matter because, if I had to guess, you're one that see's ME3 overall as the ending of the trilogy, not just the last 10 minutes of the game.

Heck, I don't even get into stuff like this... I don't care what they said before, what they're saying now, or much of anything else. The simple point is that the ME3 ending sucks. Hardcore. The three, or 'technically' six, endings are about as different as the fingers on your hands. Shepard, the master of question and answer sessions, becomes a freaking zombie when he gets to the last guy 'Uhh... so I have to do this? Okay, I go do this.' And considering the overall value and quality of the game series as a whole, the ending is just not remotely on par.

Oh, and the 'they lied to us' 'no they didn't' bit? They lie like politicians. I'd rather they just do it outright, like a five year old, and later say they changed their minds or something. Just deal with the issues and move on.. don't BS us around.

[Wynteryth]

Here is a great read on why the ending was bad and the fans are right:
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

[Peranor]

furryrage59 wrote...

anorling wrote...

Ok! I'll be damned but I admit. I really wanted the game to end like this:


Goddamnit! That doesn't make me a bad person.
What have the world come to when we can't even be allowed to find a little happiness in the fiction we flee to to get away from all the evil, tragedy and despair that surrounds us in the real world?!
Give me my happy ending. I deserve it and so does the story itself!

A feel good ending would have been a wonderful way to leave our mass effect friends and finish their story.

It's a hipster conspiracy that everything has to be dark and moody to be cool. What utter nonsense.

I agree. Its so hip and cool for things to be grim and dark these days that people advocating those kind of endings tend to forget that they are even more of a cliché nowadays then what the good and happy endings ever was.

But by all means. Keep the current endings. I don't care. Its fine. As long as you provide us with an OPTION to end things happly as well. OPTIONS people. OPTIONS is the keyword. Thats what Mass Effect's all about. And they robbed us from that when they messed up the ending.
Not that any ending ever could be truly happy considering how many lives that has been lost already before you stop the reapers. But at least let it end happily for Shepard and those cloes to him/her.

Modifié par anorling, 25 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

Gigamantis wrote...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly. 

"...that means the endings can be a lot more different. at this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. it's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

- Casey Hudson, jan 11, 2012


Not so silly. An A, B or C ending was precicely what we got.

2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.  

I quite liked the fact that the ending was bitter-sweet - I'm not looking for a disney ending. My problem wasn't even the lack of exposure as to what happened to your companions afterwards, but rather a serious contradiction between what the ending revealed and what the game prior to that had shown to be the case (can't be more specific, since this is the no spoiler forum).

There were also aspects of the ending that were unexplained, that should have been explained, and loose ends in the plot that weren't tied up. But mostly the problem was the forced acceptance of the choises given, rather than the far more reasonable and obvious reaction that would have been consistent with Sheppard's experience - an outright rejection of the "conduit's" claims.

By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

This I can agree on, fully - the game was fantastic, review bombing isn't justified, not to mention any other excesses. Giving the game a review of 0/10 because of the last five minutes is absurdly excessive, and people will rightly dismiss your opinion as a temper tandrum if you go for such excesses.

But I do think it is undeniable that the ending didn't match earlier promises and marketing, and the plot holes and inconsistences seem very difficult to reconcile without a rather large reworking of the ending. Which, I doubt we'll be getting - we'll get the more minor complaints dealt with, the ones that can be smoothed over with more explanation and expansion of the existing endings, but I suspect that the deeper contradictions with the earlier story will remain.

I hope I'm wrong in that.

Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 25 mars 2012 - 06:56 .

[Skeloton]

I'll shoot this thing and blow up the reapers and the mass relays in a bright red light, the Normandy and Co crash on an alien planet minus ed I, despite the gang being on earth.
I'll grab these two things and order the reapers to leave, blowing the mass relays in a bright blue light, the Normandy and Co crash on an alien planet, despite the gang being on earth.
I'll jump into the light and combine synthetic life with organic life and destroy the mass relays in a bright green light, the Normandy and Co crash on an alien planet, despite the gang being on earth.

Yeah that sounds completely different. Only things that are different are colour and method, the variances depending on your ems don't really count as different endings as they are more of the same just with a tiny alteration.

the endings havent stopped me from playing 7 times though, one for each class and an extra to boink ashley...on my eighth to boink tali.

Modifié par Skeloton, 25 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[malakim2099]

furryrage59 wrote...

anorling wrote...

Ok! I'll be damned but I admit. I really wanted the game to end like this:


Goddamnit! That doesn't make me a bad person.
What have the world come to when we can't even be allowed to find a little happiness in the fiction we flee to to get away from all the evil, tragedy and despair that surrounds us in the real world?!
Give me my happy ending. I deserve it and so does the story itself!

A feel good ending would have been a wonderful way to leave our mass effect friends and finish their story.

It's a hipster conspiracy that everything has to be dark and moody to be cool. What utter nonsense.

Agreed. While I don't require a happy ending (I'd be happy with an "ending")... the option should be there. Though I think my Shepard would be teaching Liara how to play poker with the rest of the squaddies.

The thought of Javik trying to play poker makes me cackle.