348 réponses à ce sujet

[Femlob]

Gigamantis wrote...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly. 

That's funny - I distinctly remember being promised sixteen different endings.

But who's counting, huh?

[Simotech]

anorling wrote...

Ok! I'll be damned but I admit. I really wanted the game to end like this:


Goddamnit! That doesn't make me a bad person.
What have the world come to when we can't even be allowed to find a little happiness in the fiction we flee to to get away from all the evil, tragedy and despair that surrounds us in the real world?!
Give me my happy ending. I deserve it and so does the story itself!

+1000

[Farbautisonn]

anorling wrote...

Ok! I'll be damned but I admit. I really wanted the game to end like this:


Goddamnit! That doesn't make me a bad person.
What have the world come to when we can't even be allowed to find a little happiness in the fiction we flee to to get away from all the evil, tragedy and despair that surrounds us in the real world?!
Give me my happy ending. I deserve it and so does the story itself!

I didnt want the game to end like that. But I would have wanted a "last supper" like that. Think how powerfull the ending could have been.... remeniscing of that night where everyone was alive, happy, talking, dancing and drinking like it was the last night of their life? 

There is so much "thousand yard stare"  potential in this image it boggles the mind.

We do not want rembember the people we lost as mince. We want to remember them when they were happy and smiling. Even if the smiles were forced and enduced by alcohol.

[Wynteryth]

Gigamantis wrote...

Wynteryth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly.  

No.  We didn't get 3 of them.  The ending was the same in all 3.  

 2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.  

It's not my call to make whether it's a happy ending or not? I thought that was the point of an RPG? You know.. Role-Playing game.  That my decisions decide the outcome?  If the outcome is the same no matter what I decide, then I really haven't made a decision.  

  3.) There are many questions that still need answering and plot points that need settling.  That's pretty much what DLC is and with no loose ends there would be no conceivable reason to release more content.  You all knew there would be DLC.  

Mid-Game DLC will not change anything nor fix any loose ends.  Post-Game DLC might do that.  But it might now.  

  By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

By most people's admission, the game play was fantastic, but the ending was horrible and non-sensical.  It made all the decisions moot and worthless.  

What is embarrassing is people making excuses for a 10 minute segment that, for all intents and purposes, ruined a great game series and eliminated the want to replay the game through from ME1.  Because, what's the point if not matter what you decide, the ending is the same. 

Saying that the "ending is fine" is laughable and a joke.  

1.) No, you got 3 different endings.  Whether you consider them different enough or not is subjective.

I did not get 3 different endings and there is nothing subjective about it.  The basics are the same in all 3 endings.  I'd list them out for you but I'd be putting in spoilerss. 3 different endings would have been: 
1) Shep Dies, 
2) Shep lives, 
3) Shep indoctrinated, 

And, for each of those, I can do an A) Reapers Destroyed or Reapers Win. C)  Reapers assimilated D) Beings Assimilated. . So there are 12 different endings right there that would all be better than the 1 ending that we got.  

2.) No, that's not the point of an RPG.  In an RPG you're playing a role in a story someone else wrote.  

 Clearly spoken by someone who doesn't understand what an RPG is. You've probably never played Dungeons & Dragons or any other RPG either. In a role-playing game, you play the role of your character. The role is defined by YOU.  Not by the writer.  You're given the goal and it's up to you how to get there.  And, the ending is decided based on what you did.  And, it's different based on your decisions.  Since we've already established that the endings are the same (though you think otherwise), then it makes everything else moot. Hell, even the poorly written D&D books they came out with in the mid 80's had different endings based on what you chose.  

 3.) Pre-ending DLC is perfectly capable of fixing loose-ends as is post-game depending on what the canon ending is.  You'll have to wait and see. 

There is no pre-ending DLC content that can fix the ending. Saying otherwise is just BS.  You might be able to fill in a few holes, but, again, who is going to bother if it doesn't fix the horribly scripted ending? 

Modifié par Wynteryth, 25 mars 2012 - 07:09 .

[wileydsp]

It's not that the ending choices themselves were bad, it's just that the evidence provided in the trilogy disproves the argument made in the last 5 minutes. The way the game built up EDI, the Geth, the Quarians, it made it seem like these developments were extremely important plot points (at least to me). So when I went into the end sequence, and it seemed like those developments got thrown out seems to me to be the greater injustice.

I mean the ending is actually bittersweet (the middle option that is). I just don't really understand why the developments of Synthetics becoming aware enough to reject the assertions in the end seemingly gets tossed out.

[Gigamantis]

"...that means the endings can be a lot more different. at this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. it's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."

- Casey Hudson, jan 11, 2012

I understand what you're saying; they built expectations for the ending that fell short for a lot of people. The endings didn't feel very varied for many but a lot was likely factored into which ending you got. Three endings being the most distinct isn't automatically ABC; it depends on what went into determining the endings. Three isn't even the actual limit. The point is you weren't lied to. Claiming you were lied to is melodramatic and ultimately isn't helping your point.

Nothing in the game or the ending is beyond addressing in additional content. Leaving big questions and discussion points in the midst of new content is a good way to keep people interested, if the fans have the emotional levity to deal with it.

Unfortunately, the reaction is going to force these explanations out fast and they'll likely be more fan-service than actual thought out content. Sadly all future DLC for this game will be tainted by fan interference, so I've lost all interest.

[o Ventus]

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly.

Mike Gamble said himself that the ending choice would be more then "A, B, or C". ABC is EXACTLY what we got.

2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.

"You are less of a fan than I am for wanting a happy ending".

3.) There are many questions that still need answering and plot points that need settling.  That's pretty much what DLC is and with no loose ends there would be no conceivable reason to release more content.  You all knew there would be DLC.

You are concsiously aware that Casey Hudson said all story-based DLC will take place before the end of the game, right?

By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

No one has said the game itself is garbage. People are saying the ending is garbage. Your opinion may be different, but when a MASSIVE (and I do mean MASSIVE) portion of the internet is petitioning and protesting the current endings, you know you ****ed up somewhere in development.

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[Gigamantis]

I did not get 3 different endings and there is nothing subjective about it. The basics are the same in all 3 endings. I'd list them out for you but I'd be putting in spoilerss.

You're right, there's nothing subjective about it. There are 3 distinct endings. The only thing subjective is whether or not you thought they were different enough.

Clearly spoken by someone who doesn't understand what an RPG is. You've probably never played Dungeons & Dragons or any other RPG either. In a role-playing game, you play the role of your character. The role is defined by YOU. Not by the writer. You're given the goal and it's up to you how to get there. And, the ending is decided based on what you did. And, it's different based on your decisions. Since we've already established that the endings are the same (though you think otherwise), then it makes everything else moot. Hell, even the poorly written D&D books they came out with in the mid 80's had different endings based on what you chose.

Again, you have 3 possible endings (technically more) based on your decisions. Your role is confined by the ME universe and the writers story. You can't be a NASCAR driver or start a band that tours all over the universe, you're playing a role in someone else's story. You only have as much control over the ending as they want to give you.

[Wynteryth]

Skeloton wrote...

I'll shoot this thing and blow up the reapers and the mass relays in a bright red light, the Normandy and Co crash on an alien planet minus ed I, despite the gang being on earth.
I'll grab these two things and order the reapers to leave, blowing the mass relays in a bright blue light, the Normandy and Co crash on an alien planet, despite the gang being on earth.
I'll jump into the light and combine synthetic life with organic life and destroy the mass relays in a bright green light, the Normandy and Co crash on an alien planet, despite the gang being on earth.

Yeah that sounds completely different. Only things that are different are colour and method, the variances depending on your ems don't really count as different endings as they are more of the same just with a tiny alteration.

the endings havent stopped me from playing 7 times though, one for each class and an extra to boink ashley...on my eighth to boink tali.

According to the OP, though, they are different and it's "subjective" to say they aren't.  

[crazyrabbits]

Gigamantis wrote...

The endings didn't feel very varied for many but a lot was likely factored into which ending you got. Three endings being the most distinct isn't automatically ABC; it depends on what went into determining the endings. Three isn't even the actual limit.

80-85% of the footage across all three endings is comprised of the same footage. They are some small differences between them, but when played side-by-side, they are ostensibly the same content with recolouring.

[bigbade]

Gigamantis wrote...

1.) Everything about any game is subject to change right up until the game goes into printing, and with the inclusion of 1st day patching even beyond that point.  6 months before release?  Absolutely.  

2.) I've already stated it will likely be pre-end content but it will tie up any loose ends left by the existing ending.  That's the only avenue you can take with "new" content when the entire game is effectively over.  

3.) DLC is tearing pages out of the middle and/or end of the book and reselling them.  Whether you like that concept or not that's what DLC is in every game you've ever played.  

1)  This is counting the 1-2 months for post-production and you're left with 4, you'd think an AAA title would drastically change directions with its much acclaimed project for the sake of artistic vision? Besides your #1 point was that we weren't lied to, we were. Period. 

2) Ok, go ahead and attempt to clear up the ending for me via a pre-end mission. 

3) DLC is adding pages to a complete book. Was overlord essential to me2's plot? Was Arrival? Remember me2 is about fighting collectors not stopping a reaper invasion. The ending doesn't allow for any post-dlc because in 2/3rds of them Shepard dies as do other parts of the ME universe, using it as a 'funnel' for more dlc doesn't work, or if they wanted to do that they should have removed the choice of picking our ending and imposing one on us. 

edit : it's obvious you're trying to troll via 'technicalities', the funny part is it fails.

Modifié par bigbade, 25 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[Gigamantis]

Mike Gamble said himself that the ending choice would be more then "A, B, or C". ABC is EXACTLY what we got.

That depends on what went into deciding the ending. It isn't automatically ABC just because the most distinct endings are 3. There's technically more than 3 endings.

"You are less of a fan than I am for wanting a happy ending".

You're less reasonable than I am for wanting to force the writers to create a happy ending when they wanted a bitter-sweet one.

You are concsiously aware that Casey Hudson said all story-based DLc will take place before the end of the game, right?

Right. That doesn't change anything.

[o Ventus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Again, you have 3 possible endings (technically more) based on your decisions. Your role is confined by the ME universe and the writers story. You can't be a NASCAR driver or start a band that tours all over the universe, you're playing a role in someone else's story. You only have as much control over the ending as they want to give you.

The endings nullify every single choice you've made in the series up to that point. Who'd have guessed that the most important decision Shepard would have to make is "Red, green, or blue"?

No one is asking to turn Shepard from a hardened soldier into a zookeeper or a pop star, but I don't like being yanked around as badly as the ending did.

The only difference in the endings are the action Shepard takes, and what happens to the Reapers (Even though Blue and Green show the same thing for the Reapers).

[Wynteryth]

Gigamantis wrote...

I did not get 3 different endings and there is nothing subjective about it. The basics are the same in all 3 endings. I'd list them out for you but I'd be putting in spoilerss.

You're right, there's nothing subjective about it. There are 3 distinct endings. The only thing subjective is whether or not you thought they were different enough.

You can say the same thing over and over again, but it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.  Just as another poster pointed out.  

Clearly spoken by someone who doesn't understand what an RPG is. You've probably never played Dungeons & Dragons or any other RPG either. In a role-playing game, you play the role of your character. The role is defined by YOU. Not by the writer. You're given the goal and it's up to you how to get there. And, the ending is decided based on what you did. And, it's different based on your decisions. Since we've already established that the endings are the same (though you think otherwise), then it makes everything else moot. Hell, even the poorly written D&D books they came out with in the mid 80's had different endings based on what you chose.

Again, you have 3 possible endings (technically more) based on your decisions. Your role is confined by the ME universe and the writers story. You can't be a NASCAR driver or start a band that tours all over the universe, you're playing a role in someone else's story. You only have as much control over the ending as they want to give you.

WOW.  Nothing like exaggerating to the extreme.  Who said anything about going outside the ME universe?  I posted 12 different potential endings that all would have made more sense than the SINGLE ending that we got. And changing colors of explosions doesn't change an ending.   

Modifié par Wynteryth, 25 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[o Ventus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Mike Gamble said himself that the ending choice would be more then "A, B, or C". ABC is EXACTLY what we got.

That depends on what went into deciding the ending. It isn't automatically ABC just because the most distinct endings are 3. There's technically more than 3 endings.

Orly?

"Destroy-Shepard dead" and "Destroy-Shepard gasps" aren't 2 separate entities. Tacking on 2 extra seconds of footage doesn't all of a sudden make it an entirely different ending.

How is it NOT ABC? They are all functionally identical. Show me actual evidence to the contrary.

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[Gigamantis]

bigbade wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

1.) Everything about any game is subject to change right up until the game goes into printing, and with the inclusion of 1st day patching even beyond that point.  6 months before release?  Absolutely.  

2.) I've already stated it will likely be pre-end content but it will tie up any loose ends left by the existing ending.  That's the only avenue you can take with "new" content when the entire game is effectively over.  

3.) DLC is tearing pages out of the middle and/or end of the book and reselling them.  Whether you like that concept or not that's what DLC is in every game you've ever played.  

1)  This is counting the 1-2 months for post-production and you're left with 4, you'd think an AAA title would drastically change directions with its much acclaimed project for the sake of artistic vision? Besides your #1 point was that we weren't lied to, we were. Period. 

2) Ok, go ahead and attempt to clear up the ending for me via a pre-end mission. 

3) DLC is adding pages to a complete book. Was overlord essential to me2's plot? Was Arrival? Remember me2 is about fighting collectors not stopping a reaper invasion. The ending doesn't allow for any post-dlc because in 2/3rds of them Shepard dies as do other parts of the ME universe. 

1.) You can't be lied to in development because nothing is promised in development.  They only tell you their goals at the time, which can and often do change.  I'm surprised I have to explain this in a forum full of people I assume have been gamers for a whle.

2.) That would involve spoilers, but it's very possible with good writers.  I'm not even a good writer.  

3.) Again, ME1 and ME2 were incomplete games by design because they're part of a trilogy.  Nothing but side-stories are completed in both games.  ME3 is EVERYTHING else and they can't close off EVERYTHING else if they want to continue making content.  

[wileydsp]

Yes OP, in the most technical of senses there are different endings provided, and that's being nitpicky I would say. Basically, people didn't expect something that's only marginally different being considered a completely separate ending. People wanted to see drastically different endings where the consequences could be seen not extrapolated upon. Do I think the choices themselves have ramifications that are far reaching? Yes I do. However, I also understand those who disliked the endings and their points behind it. I previously said how I disagree with the assertions at the end when you look at the developments of EDI and the Geth. Basically the sequences at the end seem below the typical quality that a lot of people have come to expect from BioWare.

Also, I do not agree with your notion that DLC is all important. I think it's sad that games can end with a "buy dlc" message. I think that's a shallow use of resources. That last section of text could have been used as the closing bell toll that everyone wanted, but they were left with an unwanted cliffhanger of a statement in that "buy DLC" message.

[Khayness]

Robhuzz wrote...

I'm tired of arguing with people who believe the ending was fine and are determined to defend BioWare.

Here's why the ending is not fine. Enjoy the read.

Bloody Hell, now that's what I call a detailed article.

[garf]

Gigamantis wrote...

A list ...

1.) Despite what you all want to claim you weren't "lied to."  They promised varied endings based on your choices and you got 3 of them.  If they weren't varied enough for you that's fine, you have every right to be disappointed.  Pretending you were lied to, however, is silly. 

2.) Some of you are proponents of the "happy ending" and it's the reason you're upset.  That's not your call to make and if any changes are made in that capacity to the ending it will be an outrage.  If you "fans" end up tainting the DLC like that I couldn't stomach buying it; I want the real ending.  

3.) There are many questions that still need answering and plot points that need settling.  That's pretty much what DLC is and with no loose ends there would be no conceivable reason to release more content.  You all knew there would be DLC.  


By everyone's admission the rest of the game was fantastic.  No matter what reasons you subscribe to you're overreacting and not being constructive.  Trying to sabotage the game on fan and review sites is silly.  Calling the game garbage and making empty threats on the forums is silly.  If you're disappointed voice it, but the community has been rather embarrassing on this issue.  Get your heads straight. 

I'm really tired of this. don't tell me what to do. Don't deny me my pain. I played that ending in all three colours. I know what that experience was and no words spoken down upon me with contempt will change that experience....

One word might.

If bioware said "Sorry" and meant. it.

I don't care if it was sorry, we'll fix it, or sorry we know it's bad but we can't fix it.

Anything else that attempts to discredit, reverse, cajole, or 'checkmate' me into feeling better about a bad product falls on deaf ears.

[Gigamantis]

o Ventus wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Mike Gamble said himself that the ending choice would be more then "A, B, or C". ABC is EXACTLY what we got.

That depends on what went into deciding the ending. It isn't automatically ABC just because the most distinct endings are 3. There's technically more than 3 endings.

Orly?

"Destroy-Shepard dead" and "Destroy-Shepard gasps" aren't 2 separate entities. Tacking on 2 extra seconds of footage doesn't all of a sudden make it an entirely different ending.

How is it NOT ABC? They are all functionally identical. Show me actual evidence to the contrary.

Again you're talking about extent and they never promised you extent.  You got 3 separate distinct endings and more potential ones.  A lot may have gone into calculating those differences, even if you think the differences themselves aren't substantial. 

[Doctor Uburian]

Simotech wrote...

anorling wrote...

Ok! I'll be damned but I admit. I really wanted the game to end like this:


Goddamnit! That doesn't make me a bad person.
What have the world come to when we can't even be allowed to find a little happiness in the fiction we flee to to get away from all the evil, tragedy and despair that surrounds us in the real world?!
Give me my happy ending. I deserve it and so does the story itself!

+1000

+42!

[wileydsp]

Gigmantis,

My question to you is this: What did you make of the Quarian/Geth and EDI developments during the game. When you got to the end did you think of those occurrences and wonder if what the assertions being leveled for you were actually correct in their nature?

It seems you only want to argue about the construction of the endings in that they were different. I want to know what you feel about the actual dialogue and information you've already had at your disposal coming into that final section, and what did you think. Did you think of those developments with your characters as important at all to the end? When people say our choices didn't matter, I tend to think they are talking about those points.

[bigbade]

Gigamantis wrote...

bigbade wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

1.) Everything about any game is subject to change right up until the game goes into printing, and with the inclusion of 1st day patching even beyond that point.  6 months before release?  Absolutely.  

2.) I've already stated it will likely be pre-end content but it will tie up any loose ends left by the existing ending.  That's the only avenue you can take with "new" content when the entire game is effectively over.  

3.) DLC is tearing pages out of the middle and/or end of the book and reselling them.  Whether you like that concept or not that's what DLC is in every game you've ever played.  

1)  This is counting the 1-2 months for post-production and you're left with 4, you'd think an AAA title would drastically change directions with its much acclaimed project for the sake of artistic vision? Besides your #1 point was that we weren't lied to, we were. Period. 

2) Ok, go ahead and attempt to clear up the ending for me via a pre-end mission. 

3) DLC is adding pages to a complete book. Was overlord essential to me2's plot? Was Arrival? Remember me2 is about fighting collectors not stopping a reaper invasion. The ending doesn't allow for any post-dlc because in 2/3rds of them Shepard dies as do other parts of the ME universe. 

1.) You can't be lied to in development because nothing is promised in development.  They only tell you their goals at the time, which can and often do change.  I'm surprised I have to explain this in a forum full of people I assume have been gamers for a whle.

2.) That would involve spoilers, but it's very possible with good writers.  I'm not even a good writer.  

3.) Again, ME1 and ME2 were incomplete games by design because they're part of a trilogy.  Nothing but side-stories are completed in both games.  ME3 is EVERYTHING else and they can't close off EVERYTHING else if they want to continue making content.  

1) Of course you can be lied to, I can say right I think you're a wonderful, intelligent person who brings forth compelling arguments. I'm not promising it, mind you, I'm just saying it. It is a lie, I just lied to you, you were lied to. Simple as that.

2) If it's very possible I'd be glad to hear it, PM me or post them on the spoilers allowed forums.

3) ME1-2 are complete games. ME1 could even be standalone if it wanted to, in fact it was made with that in mind in case it didn't succeed. 
Goal of me1: stop saren, stop sovereign. Saren is stopped, Sovereign is stopped.
Goal of Me2: Stop collectors, learn their motives. Collectors stopped, motives learned.
Goal of Me3: Galactic resolution to reaper conflict, genophage, geth-quarian relations, earth: A break in continuation gets rid in one way or the other of the reaper threat, no conclusion on consequences of genophage, geth and quarians, or what happens to any of the civilizations after what the crucible does to the mass relays. 

ME3 is incomplete, and if you want to defend that by stating that its the only way for them to allow dlc then fine, it's just sad that we have to pay extra for a full game.

[AdmiralJacket]

 Well I'm glad someone thought the ending was fine. I still feel cheated. Even if "technically" I wasn't. 

[LoneStorm]

Gigamantis wrote...

Again you're talking about extent and they never promised you extent.  You got 3 separate distinct endings
and more potential ones.  A lot may have gone into calculating those differences, even if you think the differences themselves aren't substantial. 

Not really distinct at all.

www.youtube.com/watch