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[N0-Future]

the guy in the interview said. and I quote " I didn't see any plot holes " !!! Is he for real?? Because I saw loads...

[Heimdall]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...
That might be acceptable from an arthouse indie developer, but space operas by definition of the genre are unambiguous. Note that I'm not suggesting that Bioware remove all of the mystery and intrigue out of the setting, but inconsistency with the mass relay explosions and introducing plot emelents that we had no way to see coming that aren't connected with anything is not acceptable.

But some inconsistencies are percieved only and not real.  I do not believe there were any random or unconnected plot elements.

[Evenjelith]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Since the shockwaves come FROM the relays... he'd have to be near a relay to "run from it" in the first place. There was no reason for him to be there as opposed to at the planet the fight was over.

How do you know conclusively that it was not simply spinning up the FTL like Joker did in ME2 to escape the collectors? That is a very quick process even when he had EDI select a destinantion.  We never saw how either of the travel methods worked from within as the cutscene at the end does.

They never show everything and they don't always properly set up scenes. If BW does not answer the questions after reasonable amount of time (they have said they will per Myzuka), then it might be fair criticism. After all they did the writing and created the universe and know why they did things presented in the game to you. You are just saying I know more than the writers with no real proof other than the things they exhibited in the game which might not tell the whole story.

The fact that they landed on a habitable planet after the engines explode strongly suggests they'd gone through the relay. The lore of ME as set out in the books and games makes it very unlikely there'd be a Garden World within (~10min) standard FTL of Earth that Humanity hadn't settled yet.

[Salis777]

Evenjelith wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Since the shockwaves come FROM the relays... he'd have to be near a relay to "run from it" in the first place. There was no reason for him to be there as opposed to at the planet the fight was over.

How do you know conclusively that it was not simply spinning up the FTL like Joker did in ME2 to escape the collectors? That is a very quick process even when he had EDI select a destinantion.  We never saw how either of the travel methods worked from within as the cutscene at the end does.

They never show everything and they don't always properly set up scenes. If BW does not answer the questions after reasonable amount of time (they have said they will per Myzuka), then it might be fair criticism. After all they did the writing and created the universe and know why they did things presented in the game to you. You are just saying I know more than the writers with no real proof other than the things they exhibited in the game which might not tell the whole story.

The fact that they landed on a habitable planet after the engines explode strongly suggests they'd gone through the relay. The lore of ME as set out in the books and games makes it very unlikely there'd be a Garden World within (~10min) standard FTL of Earth that Humanity hadn't settled yet.

Maybe the explosion made them go faster!

/sarcasm

Seriously though, it's just sad watching all the grasping attempts people make at trying to explain this ending.  It doesn't make sense, if you have to THEORISE about everything, it doesn't make sense and is badly written.  The whole thing is just futile.

[ssgt thompson1]

The Razman wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Reapers can outrun the Normandy.

Which you see throughout the game, when scanning for resources on planets ...?

Joker would not leave. Its Joker. Its the Normandy crew - at what point have they ever cut and run unless under Shepards orders?

Just answer me this. Would Joker simply do nothing when a big shockwave was coming at him? What about running from an all enveloping shockwave is "cutting and running"?

He didn't run from a fight. He ran from something he assumed was dangerous and going to destroy the Normandy.

He DID run, notice how another plot hole much... in ME2 he waited for shep(not just waited he was shootin collectors) to get on the ship from the exploding collector base, WHICH WAS CERTAIN DOOM, now in ME3 he has no idea what it is but he runs like a ****.
Did joker lose his balls in that 6 months between the games or just incredibly bad plot holes.

[InvincibleHero]

Evenjelith wrote...

The fact that they landed on a habitable planet after the engines explode strongly suggests they'd gone through the relay. The lore of ME as set out in the books and games makes it very unlikely there'd be a Garden World within (~10min) standard FTL of Earth that Humanity hadn't settled yet.

How do you reach the ten minute time table? There was no timer apparent and Joker could have kept ahead of it for hours just the game shows a 15 second cutscene of when it catches up. It cannot be called conclusive based on that. There is also much time condensing in games because it would be boring to sit through hours of real time to show it realistically.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Lord Aesir wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...
That might be acceptable from an arthouse indie developer, but space operas by definition of the genre are unambiguous. Note that I'm not suggesting that Bioware remove all of the mystery and intrigue out of the setting, but inconsistency with the mass relay explosions and introducing plot emelents that we had no way to see coming that aren't connected with anything is not acceptable.

But some inconsistencies are percieved only and not real.  I do not believe there were any random or unconnected plot elements.

I know... and unfortunately I think that an answer will be forthcoming within the next months because Bioware have demonstrated all throughout the series that they can do better and that they're normally quite good at anticipating percieved inconsistencies. I thought something was fishy as soon as the credits were rolling up the screen, the whole ending sequence looked all disjointed with pieces missing. I'm also expecting an elaboration on the catalyst and how it fits in with the citadel assault in either novel or DLC form, and maybe more detail on the cerberus base. It's exactly the sort of thing that I'd expect from neo bioware.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 26 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[Evenjelith]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Evenjelith wrote...

The fact that they landed on a habitable planet after the engines explode strongly suggests they'd gone through the relay. The lore of ME as set out in the books and games makes it very unlikely there'd be a Garden World within (~10min) standard FTL of Earth that Humanity hadn't settled yet.

How do you reach the ten minute time table? There was no timer apparent and Joker could have kept ahead of it for hours just the game shows a 15 second cutscene of when it catches up. It cannot be called conclusive based on that. There is also much time condensing in games because it would be boring to sit through hours of real time to show it realistically.

The Normandy had my squadmates on it when it crashed at the end. Last time I saw them was at the Conduit and that was 10mins before I finished the game.

As to keeping ahead of it, it's obvious from the brief scene we see that the wave is moving much faster then the Normandy can.

However, if we assume he used a combination of time travel and teleportation AND ran away immediately after the Normandy's last appearance on screen, 3hrs is still not long enough to reach a habitable system using standard FTL. I say that based on what I've read in the books. If you're suspcions are correct and Joker didn't use the relay then it's just another inconsistency between the ending and the established cannon of the universe.

I'm as curious as you are to see which way Bioware goes.

Modifié par Evenjelith, 26 mars 2012 - 03:46 .

[InvincibleHero]

Evenjelith wrote...

The Normandy had my squadmates on it when it crashed at the end. Last time I saw them was at the Conduit and that was 10mins before I finished the game.

As to keeping ahead of it, it's obvious from the brief scene we see that the wave is moving much faster then the Normandy can.

However, if we assume he used a combination of time travel and teleportation AND ran away immediately after the Normandy's last appearance on screen, 3hrs is still not long enough to reach a habitable system using standard FTL. I say that based on what I've read in the books. If you're suspcions are correct and Joker didn't use the relay then it's just another inconsistency between the ending and the established cannon of the universe.

I'm as curious as you are to see which way Bioware goes.

Well we don't know what being forced out of ftl does in the context of the ME universe. The explosion could have propelled them quite a vast distance and they happened to hit a habitable planet. Oh Joker you are sooo lucky.  
Another possibilty is it ripped the space/time continuum and they could be in the past or future.

[Evenjelith]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Evenjelith wrote...

The Normandy had my squadmates on it when it crashed at the end. Last time I saw them was at the Conduit and that was 10mins before I finished the game.

As to keeping ahead of it, it's obvious from the brief scene we see that the wave is moving much faster then the Normandy can.

However, if we assume he used a combination of time travel and teleportation AND ran away immediately after the Normandy's last appearance on screen, 3hrs is still not long enough to reach a habitable system using standard FTL. I say that based on what I've read in the books. If you're suspcions are correct and Joker didn't use the relay then it's just another inconsistency between the ending and the established cannon of the universe.

I'm as curious as you are to see which way Bioware goes.

Well we don't know what being forced out of ftl does in the context of the ME universe. The explosion could have propelled them quite a vast distance and they happened to hit a habitable planet. Oh Joker you are sooo lucky.  
Another possibilty is it ripped the space/time continuum and they could be in the past or future.

You might have something there  

We've already got heaps of plot holes, why not a hole in the space/time continuum as well.

[Salis777]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Evenjelith wrote...

The Normandy had my squadmates on it when it crashed at the end. Last time I saw them was at the Conduit and that was 10mins before I finished the game.

As to keeping ahead of it, it's obvious from the brief scene we see that the wave is moving much faster then the Normandy can.

However, if we assume he used a combination of time travel and teleportation AND ran away immediately after the Normandy's last appearance on screen, 3hrs is still not long enough to reach a habitable system using standard FTL. I say that based on what I've read in the books. If you're suspcions are correct and Joker didn't use the relay then it's just another inconsistency between the ending and the established cannon of the universe.

I'm as curious as you are to see which way Bioware goes.

Well we don't know what being forced out of ftl does in the context of the ME universe. The explosion could have propelled them quite a vast distance and they happened to hit a habitable planet. Oh Joker you are sooo lucky.  
Another possibilty is it ripped the space/time continuum and they could be in the past or future.

Next you'll be telling me it was all a dream or something.

/sarc

[addiction21]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Well we don't know what being forced out of ftl does in the context of the ME universe. 

http://masseffect.wi...ps_and_Vehicles

"If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation. "

It tends to be rather bad.

Of course what that wave does is unknown. Since the colored energy never actualy makes contact with the Normandy (it opens up into a circle with it passing around the Normandy when the engine explodes) we really have no context to it. Not to mention how they survive a landing with no engines.
And thats just as bad.

[Evenjelith]

addiction21 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Well we don't know what being forced out of ftl does in the context of the ME universe. 

http://masseffect.wi...ps_and_Vehicles

"If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation. "

It tends to be rather bad.

Of course what that wave does is unknown. Since the colored energy never actualy makes contact with the Normandy (it opens up into a circle with it passing around the Normandy when the engine explodes) we really have no context to it. Not to mention how they survive a landing with no engines.
And thats just as bad.

Excellent point.

[AlienWolf728]

that video... THE IGNORANCE! IT BURNS!!!

[veach7878]

All i can say to the video is &*^% him.

[InvincibleHero]

addiction21 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Well we don't know what being forced out of ftl does in the context of the ME universe. 

http://masseffect.wi...ps_and_Vehicles

"If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation. "

It tends to be rather bad.

Of course what that wave does is unknown. Since the colored energy never actualy makes contact with the Normandy (it opens up into a circle with it passing around the Normandy when the engine explodes) we really have no context to it. Not to mention how they survive a landing with no engines.
And thats just as bad.

Yeah it can be speculated one way or another. Pro or con.  I guess we can measure it once BW has their say on the matter. They could have messed up and went for a cinematic presentation over what should have occured.

Too bad they didn't show a abandon ship with the Kodiak landing. I guess those upgraded shields and hull plating were worth somehting after all. Added plot armor.

[AlienWolf728]

slimgrin wrote...

Random Geth wrote...

Wow, what a complete and utter tool. It honestly makes me wonder if he actually saw the ending, or played any of the previous two games. Not that it's THAT surprising, coming from this source.

I suspect many reviewers didn't play all three games.

^ this. also the way I feel about people who thought the endings were "perfect" or/and "filled me with closure and tied up the story nicely"

Modifié par AlienWolf728, 26 mars 2012 - 04:25 .

[Shaun72]

Um, you guys know you are talking in the non-spoiler/general discussion sub-forum.....right? This needs to go in the campaign discussion forum.

[Nyila]

Sorry but this guy's voice in the video is unbearable..

[KroganShepard]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Heavenly_King wrote...

"it is a complex ending" it is apparently so complex that is has no sense AT ALL!!

Exactly. Just because you can't make sense of it, doesn't mean it isn't complex. I think you need to get over this game and move on. It's clear the series isn't for you anymore.

I'm sure you can live life without your precious Bioware, no?

I'm sorry, but if the ending is complex to you, you're a ******.

[Cody211282]

Wasn't this the moron that said there wasn't any plot hole?

[Nyila]

Cody211282 wrote...

Wasn't this the moron that said there wasn't any plot hole?

He said he didn't see any..

[Cody211282]

Nyila wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Wasn't this the moron that said there wasn't any plot hole?

He said he didn't see any..

Still proves my point.

[fwc577]

StabGuy wrote...

His job paid him to make that video, just as his job doesn't want him upsetting developers.

So he isn't in a position to say it's a bad ending.

Reviewers are bribed with exclusives and sneak-peak views of future titles. It's what keeps their services one step ahead of the rest.

Speaking of which, where can I get a job that allows me to be a complete idiot and totally ignorant towards my work.  It sounds incredibly less stressful that what I currently do.

[Ruined Requiem]

This guy obviously has no clue... what he's even talking about.