382 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

Farbautisonn wrote...

kbct wrote...

HA! He said he couldn't find any plotholes.

-We have a saying in Danish. Roughly translated its this: "Noone is obliged beyond his abilities".

So... what does that say about him then? 

I'm glad the OP created this thread. It raises awareness. It allows more people to see just how ridiculous these professional reviewers sound.

[Aesieru]

Farbautisonn wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

Well, you are whining, insults can be true you know.

1.) The fact that you answer this completely sarcastically and with mass amounts of exaggeration shows just how you are not able to see any other view but your significant bias

2.) The fact that you answer this completely sarcastically and with mass amounts of exaggeration shows just how you are not able to see any other view but your significant bias.

3.) The fact that you answer this completely sarcastically and with mass amounts of exaggeration shows just how you are not able to see any other view but your significant bias.

4.) I think you get the picture.

5.) "   "

6.) .

Or it could be that you are simply grasping at straws and that he is employing sarcasm to try to get you to realize that. Your answer are non answers as you simply try to snidely bypass all of his valid points by using an implied ad hominem to colour his opinion invalid.


Its not working.


Answer the questions or please... dont try to.

I wasn't even being sarcastic. There are specifically issues with what I specifically indicated.

[XqctaX]

i think this guys should quit his work. he couldnt even see the plotholes.

but still has the nerve to say the ending might have gone over some peoples head.

hitpeice or the man lacks intelligence in the same manner he accuses the movment on.

[The Razman]

Bubalo wrote...

1. Again, we dont know the extent of how much the keepers control the Citadel, what if the Catalysts invfluence is directly linked to being able to control the keepers? We are never told how the StarChild has influence over anything beyond him saying why the reapers were created, and if the reapers were aware of the importance of the Citadel, as in ME1 why not control or destroy it sooner? Yes, your liunk brings up good points and provides sound evidence to support a theory but dosnt provide answers.

You're not going to get all the answers all the time. You can't bring up everything that's not been explicitly stated at some point over the three games and then claim it's a plothole.

You can definitely say "This isn't consistent with what we know to be true". And in this case, there's never any evidence at any point throughout the three games to suggest that the Catalyst is in control of the Citadel in any way, so you can't say it's a plothole that "The Catalyst didn't help the Reapers".

2. EDIT: So you're saying that Joker would flee after watching the Earth be vaporized? If Joker sees the shockwave/vaper and decides to flee, can the Normandy in fact out run the laser that the Citadel sends off to the relays? And if the vapor is only occuring over the Earth why dosnt he wait in orbit around Earth with the rest of the fleets, WHY does joker flee but other ships dont? And mainly waht happens to the instantanous Mass relay travel? Does it not work anymore once the shockwave is sent off? Again, the link youve provide provides sound support for these theories but in the end lacks answers, which unfortunalty at this point only BioWare can provide.   

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

So the answer is no, the Normandy can't outrun the beam. But it can sure as hell outrun the initial shockwave, and if Joker saw a shockwave coming towards him ... why is it so offensive to some people to suggest that maybe, in the face of a huge shockwave of unknown origin, Joker wouldn't have just sat there and let it hit the Normandy when he could've outrun it? Also, the answer to why the rest of the fleet doesn't flee is obvious. They can't. They're not fast enough. It's stated explicitly before the final battle that the Normandy will lead the fleet because it's the fastest by far.

What you're doing is asking a bunch of questions and then saying that I can't answer them because "I'm just speculating". I'm not speculating ... I'm providing logical explanations to the questions you've asked which fit with the consistency and continuity within the game. What you're doing is speculating. Bioware doesn't need to specifically address every single question which people ask, clarify every single ambiguity.

[Dudeman315]

Was it just me or did he sound like a computer, totally devoid of any human emotion?

[Bcoolpro]

LordTridus wrote...

Bcoolpro wrote...

This argument doesn't make sense to me... just because he is paid to offer an opinion (one that differs from yours) then it means he's a corporate shill?  By that logic pro-sports aren't sports because the athletes are getting paid.

His job and livelihood depends on having good relationships with companies like EA, so yes there's a fairly significant conflict of interest. It's becoming a real issue with game reviews that it's hard to trust them anymore. The crazy divergence between the critical reception of ME3 and the fan reception isn't the first time it's come up lately (hello Dragon Age 2!).

Have you ever noticed how there's no such thing as a negative game preview, ever? Previews are doled out entirely by PR firms, and they only give them to writers who know to play ball.

It's impossible to say if this particular review is corrupt or not, because some of these writers review so many games that what to fans are obvious and glaring continuity holes in the ending can easily be missed if it's your third game of the week. But clearly saying "the critics liked it so its fine" isn't going to fly.

Okay perhaps a bad analogy...  if you believe a reviewer is not being honest then don't pay attention to them.  I am not saying you should like anything just because someone says so.  I am saying that there is something good and worthwhile in something that has gotten so much positive critical reviews.  That doesn't mean its perfect and it doesn't mean anyone had to like it.  Personally I don't like "American Beauty" however being a Best Picture winner I acknowledge that it has merit as a film.

Modifié par Bcoolpro, 25 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[Aesieru]

Bcoolpro wrote...

LordTridus wrote...

Bcoolpro wrote...

This argument doesn't make sense to me... just because he is paid to offer an opinion (one that differs from yours) then it means he's a corporate shill?  By that logic pro-sports aren't sports because the athletes are getting paid.

His job and livelihood depends on having good relationships with companies like EA, so yes there's a fairly significant conflict of interest. It's becoming a real issue with game reviews that it's hard to trust them anymore. The crazy divergence between the critical reception of ME3 and the fan reception isn't the first time it's come up lately (hello Dragon Age 2!).

Have you ever noticed how there's no such thing as a negative game preview, ever? Previews are doled out entirely by PR firms, and they only give them to writers who know to play ball.

It's impossible to say if this particular review is corrupt or not, because some of these writers review so many games that what to fans are obvious and glaring continuity holes in the ending can easily be missed if it's your third game of the week. But clearly saying "the critics liked it so its fine" isn't going to fly.

Okay perhaps a bad analogy...  if you believe a reviewer is not being honest then don't pay attention to them.  I am not saying you should like anything just because someone says so.  I am saying that there is something good and worthwhile in something that had gotten so much positive critical reviews.  That doesn't mean its perfect and is doesn't mean anyone had to like it.  Personally I don't like "American Beauty" however being a Best Picture winner I acknowledge that it has merit as a film.

Even if there is something to be said about so much positivity meaning it is good or has potential, the fact no one until the outrage would admit all the plotholes, lies about what ME3 was going to be, and the terrible ending of continuity-death is something that indicates that they CAN'T BE TRUSTED.

[The Razman]

Farbautisonn wrote...

The Razman wrote...
Not even the staunchest of defenders of plotholes stands behind that under scrutiny. "A mass relay only explodes when you blow it up, not when you use all of its energy to create a shockwave" isn't hard to grasp.

-I stand behind that. because a "shockwave" is one that emminates from a center of impact, event, or explosion. Like the waves of someone throwing a rock in a pond.

We describe it as a "shockwave" because we don't know what else to call it. The misnomer is something that everyone will recognise, as opposed to calling it something more accurate like "the wave", or "the disturbance", or "the Catalyst's solution". That's not an argument.

The Arrival states that relays blow up when destroyed because all their energy has to be released. Well, the energy is being released here. You're projecting a wave of energy which can permeate the entire galaxy. Energy = used, rather than released in an explosion. Again ... not a concept that's hard to grasp.

[Everwarden]

Kandid001 wrote...

Oh please not this "entitlement" garbage again...

[Bcoolpro]

Aesieru wrote...

Bcoolpro wrote...

LordTridus wrote...

Bcoolpro wrote...

This argument doesn't make sense to me... just because he is paid to offer an opinion (one that differs from yours) then it means he's a corporate shill?  By that logic pro-sports aren't sports because the athletes are getting paid.

His job and livelihood depends on having good relationships with companies like EA, so yes there's a fairly significant conflict of interest. It's becoming a real issue with game reviews that it's hard to trust them anymore. The crazy divergence between the critical reception of ME3 and the fan reception isn't the first time it's come up lately (hello Dragon Age 2!).

Have you ever noticed how there's no such thing as a negative game preview, ever? Previews are doled out entirely by PR firms, and they only give them to writers who know to play ball.

It's impossible to say if this particular review is corrupt or not, because some of these writers review so many games that what to fans are obvious and glaring continuity holes in the ending can easily be missed if it's your third game of the week. But clearly saying "the critics liked it so its fine" isn't going to fly.

Okay perhaps a bad analogy...  if you believe a reviewer is not being honest then don't pay attention to them.  I am not saying you should like anything just because someone says so.  I am saying that there is something good and worthwhile in something that had gotten so much positive critical reviews.  That doesn't mean its perfect and is doesn't mean anyone had to like it.  Personally I don't like "American Beauty" however being a Best Picture winner I acknowledge that it has merit as a film.

Even if there is something to be said about so much positivity meaning it is good or has potential, the fact no one until the outrage would admit all the plotholes, lies about what ME3 was going to be, and the terrible ending of continuity-death is something that indicates that they CAN'T BE TRUSTED.

There are some plot holes certianly, but I didn't, find enough to feel they draged down the whole narrative.  Which may be a difference in opinion... I don't know.

Modifié par Bcoolpro, 25 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[jtsherrard]

LOL sooooo....Game Reviewers are Nerd Wrestlers, E3 is wrestlemania, and the ME3 topic is the TLC match of the year

[BiancoAngelo7]

In 5 minutes I heard this guy spout the most overused stereotypes against the TENS OF THOUSANDS of fans that have expressed their discontent, and that's not even considering the horde of people that don't go online to talk about what they didn't like.

a) If you complain you are a minority
Gamers are entitled, it's Bioware making "art", their art not yours.
c) Ending is perfect. No plot holes, everything is great, you just aren't intelligent enough to understand it.

MSNBC is full of bias, and this guy should be ashamed to call himself a journalist.

[CptSpectacu1ar]

Again with being called a minority with entitlement issues and to who complex ideas just fly over our heads. I've never joined any forum until this, and don't think any of my friends are dumb. I know of nobody in my gaming circle who isn't at the least greatly annoyed by the ending. As for no plot holes... I wonder if he truly even beat the game, honestly.

[Farbautisonn]

The Razman wrote...
We describe it as a "shockwave" because we don't know what else to call it. The misnomer is something that everyone will recognise, as opposed to calling it something more accurate like "the wave", or "the disturbance", or "the Catalyst's solution". That's not an argument.

The Arrival states that relays blow up when destroyed because all their energy has to be released. Well, the energy is being released here. You're projecting a wave of energy which can permeate the entire galaxy. Energy = used, rather than released in an explosion. Again ... not a concept that's hard to grasp.

-If you do not know what else to "describe" it with then the logic and lore of the gamie failed. Thats strike One.

The argument here is that we have ingame historical empircal evidence of what destroying a relay does. It blows up a ****ing system. The end. Even if you place an explosive device somewhere to direct the energy in a specific direction it needs very specific and hard "damming up" to direct it in a specific direction and even when you do successfully "damn it up" it still deposits kinetic energy in the what you try to damn it up with. Brass, barrel etc still gets affected by if you discharge a rifle. There is no "barrel" to dam up the energy in a ME relay. Its going to ****ing blow.

The energy is used... for what? And is enough energy used to avoid a criticality that blows up more than is needed? Even in controlled explosions sometimes variations do occur that makes an implosion or explosion go ****** up. I do not believe the Relays were designed to implode or explode in a controlled matter. Especially after Arrival.

So year. For someone who has a modicum of practical experience with explosives (Light infantry here) and after having been drilled about the fickleties of explosives its a concept thats harder to grasp.

[Salis777]

Heavenly_King wrote...

"it is a complex ending" it is apparently so complex that is has no sense AT ALL!!

So complex you'd get an F in basic writing class for handing that crap in.  Saying its so complicated/well done, that most people don't understand it is funnily contradictory.  It's just so shoddily written, people think it's complicated.  Hah.

[Bubalo]

The Razman wrote...

Bubalo wrote...

1. Again, we dont know the extent of how much the keepers control the Citadel, what if the Catalysts invfluence is directly linked to being able to control the keepers? We are never told how the StarChild has influence over anything beyond him saying why the reapers were created, and if the reapers were aware of the importance of the Citadel, as in ME1 why not control or destroy it sooner? Yes, your liunk brings up good points and provides sound evidence to support a theory but dosnt provide answers.

You're not going to get all the answers all the time. You can't bring up everything that's not been explicitly stated at some point over the three games and then claim it's a plothole.

You can definitely say "This isn't consistent with what we know to be true". And in this case, there's never any evidence at any point throughout the three games to suggest that the Catalyst is in control of the Citadel in any way, so you can't say it's a plothole that "The Catalyst didn't help the Reapers".

2. EDIT: So you're saying that Joker would flee after watching the Earth be vaporized? If Joker sees the shockwave/vaper and decides to flee, can the Normandy in fact out run the laser that the Citadel sends off to the relays? And if the vapor is only occuring over the Earth why dosnt he wait in orbit around Earth with the rest of the fleets, WHY does joker flee but other ships dont? And mainly waht happens to the instantanous Mass relay travel? Does it not work anymore once the shockwave is sent off? Again, the link youve provide provides sound support for these theories but in the end lacks answers, which unfortunalty at this point only BioWare can provide.   

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

So the answer is no, the Normandy can't outrun the beam. But it can sure as hell outrun the initial shockwave, and if Joker saw a shockwave coming towards him ... why is it so offensive to some people to suggest that maybe, in the face of a huge shockwave of unknown origin, Joker wouldn't have just sat there and let it hit the Normandy when he could've outrun it? Also, the answer to why the rest of the fleet doesn't flee is obvious. They can't. They're not fast enough. It's stated explicitly before the final battle that the Normandy will lead the fleet because it's the fastest by far.

What you're doing is asking a bunch of questions and then saying that I can't answer them because "I'm just speculating". I'm not speculating ... I'm providing logical explanations to the questions you've asked which fit with the consistency and continuity within the game. What you're doing is speculating. Bioware doesn't need to specifically address every single question which people ask, clarify every single ambiguity.

In regards to the Citedal part Ill have to concede, I went back to watch the Catalyst talk and you're right, could have sworn he mentions having some control over the Citedal as well as reapers having some knowledge of its existence. 

In what Joker would do, tell me, any where in the series did Joker ever run from a fight? Yes he ran from EMPs ad explosions but did he ever run from an unknown? If he was so concerned with outrunning the shockwave why not sit further out to see what the shockwave did to other ships before running? The problem with the Normandy bit is the consistency of the character as well as the crew that has served with Shepard through think and thin. 

The fact that in the Final Hours app, Mac says investigory questions pertaining to the StarChild are cut as well as other longer sequences means there could be information we are not aware of which means at this point your's as well as others "logical explanations" could be false. 

[The Love Runner]

SO many misunderstandings...I can't even...

The "artistic integrity" issue never came up with Fallout 3's Broken Steel, never came up with Sherlock Holmes revealed to be alive, never came up with the post-game DLC for previous Mass Effect games, etc.

I find it troublesome that the issue is coming up for the Mass Effect 3 Ending...

[Salis777]

Galactic Runner wrote...

SO many misunderstandings...I can't even...

The "artistic integrity" issue never came up with Fallout 3's Broken Steel, never came up with Sherlock Holmes revealed to be alive, never came up with the post-game DLC for previous Mass Effect games, etc.

I find it troublesome that the issue is coming up for the Mass Effect 3 Ending...

Yeah I haven't seen a solid argument for the ending in two weeks.  Just bull**** left and right.  But it's a pretty good sign you're right when all you have to argue against is hyperbole and emotional ranting and slurs.  So whatever.

[twistedforsaken]

i wonder how wonderful this world would be if not for these money grabbing basterds

[The Razman]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-If you do not know what else to "describe" it with then the logic and lore of the gamie failed. Thats strike One.

*sigh* You're being difficult on purpose, and I'm pretty sure you're aware of it. This isn't a question of lore ... it's a question of what we call it.

So year ... Imma ignore you nao. Unless you want to say anything about how using the relay's energy to put out the wave means there's no energy for it to explode like in The Arrival when its destroyed afterwards.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Mass Effect 3 had a complex ending = Blue, Green or Red explosions.

MSNBC = Partly owned by Microsoft = Makers of Xbox 360 = Biased.

You mad pro-enders?

[bleetman]

I've said it many times before, and I imagine it will remain entirely relevant the more this type of garbage comes out:

If the best - or only, it would seem - counter-argument a person can make is to completely sidestep the issue at hand and launch into personal attacks against the people making the argument, you effectively just forfeit the discussion and might've well saved the time of everyone involved and just not bothered speaking at all.

Critical mission failure.

Modifié par bleetman, 25 mars 2012 - 08:44 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Deadmac wrote...

The Razman wrote...

http://video.msnbc.m...n-game/46814813

Cue frothing at the mouth from everyone.

Wow! Praise from Ceaser.

Even though FOX News has its problems, MSNBC is one of the most bigoted, anti-religious, anti-constitutional, and Democrat buttocks loving news networks to ever exist. Regardless about what side they take, MSNBC's support is equivalent to getting an endorsement from Satan.

I'd say Faux News is just as bad.

[Salis777]

The Razman wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

-If you do not know what else to "describe" it with then the logic and lore of the gamie failed. Thats strike One.

*sigh* You're being difficult on purpose, and I'm pretty sure you're aware of it. This isn't a question of lore ... it's a question of what we call it.

So year ... Imma ignore you nao. Unless you want to say anything about how using the relay's energy to put out the wave means there's no energy for it to explode like in The Arrival when its destroyed afterwards.

The fact you're even debating this shows how badly written it was.  I don't pay a writer to have to fill in the gaps afterward.  That's their job, and they failed in many ways.  It takes a rush job or laziness to throw so many literary spanners into the works in 5 minutes, but they managed.