382 réponses à ce sujet

[Hunter of Legends]

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

The plothole is why the hell the normandy is there in the first place.

We were winning the battle.

Again, if you'd been reading anything up to this point ... Normandy's there because of the big. Frickin'. Shockwave.

And in what way were we winning that battle?

There is no possible way for the Normady to outrun that shockwave.

It couldn't outrun it WHILE GOING THROUGH A RELAY.

We had deployed the superweapon that kills them.






Did you even play the game?

... we were talking about the exact same thing on the VERY PREVIOUS PAGE?

The Razman wrote...

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

Yes. The Normandy can outrun the initial shockwave quite easily. It's the one which is targeted at the mass relays which he can't outrun.

Did you even read the thread?

He has no reason to outrun it.

Do you even understand what good writing is?

[Aravius]

Just watched the MSNBC video. No matter what side of the arguement you're on, I'm not impressed with the reviewer.

[The Razman]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Why didn't any other ships run away then?

Yep, confirmed ... you reaaaally haven't read this thread. *sigh*

Quick answer, just for you ... remember the bit just before going into that final battle where Anderson's specifically saying how the Normandy is the fastest ship in the fleet, and that's why it'll be heading the fleet into battle? The Normandy's the only ship fast enough.

Could you stop throwing old, debunked questions at me ad nauseum because you couldn't be bothered to read the thread?

[Salis777]

The Razman wrote...

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

Yes. The Normandy can outrun the initial shockwave quite easily. It's the one which is targeted at the mass relays which he can't outrun.

Did you even read the thread?

Soooo, if the shockwave envelops earth and doesnt kill anything but the reapers, why does it blow up the Normandy's engines?

And how is Shepard alive?

Modifié par Salis777, 25 mars 2012 - 09:12 .

[The Razman]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

He has no reason to outrun it.

... a big shockwave powerful enough to envelope the entire star system which looks bigger and full of more energy than a supernova isn't a reason to run?

Ok. Explain to me how sitting still and doing nothing when a big shockwave like that comes towards you is the sensible option, the one that Joker would have taken?

[Bubalo]

The Razman wrote...

Bubalo wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Bubalo wrote...

In what Joker would do, tell me, any where in the series did Joker ever run from a fight? Yes he ran from EMPs ad explosions but did he ever run from an unknown? If he was so concerned with outrunning the shockwave why not sit further out to see what the shockwave did to other ships before running? The problem with the Normandy bit is the consistency of the character as well as the crew that has served with Shepard through think and thin. 

The fact that in the Final Hours app, Mac says investigory questions pertaining to the StarChild are cut as well as other longer sequences means there could be information we are not aware of which means at this point your's as well as others "logical explanations" could be false.

How is a shockwave coming towards the Normandy "a fight"? You're right, this is about the consistency of the character. And I'm not on board with the concept that Joker being an absolute idiot and thinking "Hm ... there's a shockwave coming towards us. I guess I'll just sit here and do nothing, because even though I have no idea what's going on, I'm sure the great big wave coming towards us is harmless. After all, when have great big massive supernova-like waves ever hurt anyone in the past, huh?"

Joker doesn't run from fights, but this ain't a fight. It's a shockwave. People arguing "JOKER WOULD NEVER RUN!" are basically arguing that Joker would just fly like an idiot into a shockwave without knowing anything about it. I like to give Joker a bit more intellectual credit than that, personally.

I think it pertains to the fact that for Joker to see the shockwave, assuming  the destroy bad ending, he would have to be in orbit of Earth possible already disengaged from the fight, because if you are in the middle of a ship fight you're not going to nessacarily notice the massive wave of color heading towards you as youd be more focused on the thing trying to directly kill you. 

He has a ship full of sensors (not to mention EDI) and crew members operating said sensors ... plus the shockwave is big enough to be enveloping the entire system. It's a bit of a stretch to say he "wouldn't notice". And he wouldn't have to be in orbit, either.

The sensors and EDI would matter if, ya know, he wasnt actually engaged in a fight with a reaper. If it were me I would be more concerned with the immediate threat of a reaper then a colored wave heading my way. Sure EDI could chime in and say "hey this wave is going to do some damage" but what good is turning and running if you're just going to get lasered in the back from the enemy you were previously fighting.

[Hunter of Legends]

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Why didn't any other ships run away then?

Yep, confirmed ... you reaaaally haven't read this thread. *sigh*

Quick answer, just for you ... remember the bit just before going into that final battle where Anderson's specifically saying how the Normandy is the fastest ship in the fleet, and that's why it'll be heading the fleet into battle? The Normandy's the only ship fast enough.

Could you stop throwing old, debunked questions at me ad nauseum because you couldn't be bothered to read the thread?

Could you stop using straw mans and ignorance to debate. The normandy running is a plot whole as there are too many "empty" spots to fill. Why was it running? Why did Joker deciede to run? How did my teamates teleport into the ship? This is the VERY DEFINITION OF PLOT HOLE.

I see that enough from Fox news.

[Icinix]

The Razman wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Also - if the relays DON'T asplode and destroy systems like in Arrival, while the hell is the Normandy running if the wave of energy doens't even hurt undefended soldiers on Earth? The only time the Normandy running makes sense is a low EMS destroy ending.

How is Joker supposed to know that? Now that would be a plothole.

Again ... if a big shockwave comes at you, can anybody give a plausible explanation for why you wouldn't run?

Reapers are faster than the Normandy and they don't run.

Besides, the shockwave DOES cause damage to the Normandy though, also in order for Joker to get that far away from the shockwave to crash on a habitable world somewhere far, far away he would have had to have been running in the first place.

No matter how you twist it. It doesn't make sense.

[Bubalo]

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

He has no reason to outrun it.

... a big shockwave powerful enough to envelope the entire star system which looks bigger and full of more energy than a supernova isn't a reason to run?

Ok. Explain to me how sitting still and doing nothing when a big shockwave like that comes towards you is the sensible option, the one that Joker would have taken?

When you see Alliance and other ships unaffected by it. Granted thats assuming they are not effected by the shochwave which Im not sure if we are aware of or not?

Modifié par Bubalo, 25 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[Hunter of Legends]

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

He has no reason to outrun it.

... a big shockwave powerful enough to envelope the entire star system which looks bigger and full of more energy than a supernova isn't a reason to run?

Ok. Explain to me how sitting still and doing nothing when a big shockwave like that comes towards you is the sensible option, the one that Joker would have taken?

Because no other ships are seen leaving.

My lord ignorance is a strong trait with you.

[The Razman]

Salis777 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

Yes. The Normandy can outrun the initial shockwave quite easily. It's the one which is targeted at the mass relays which he can't outrun.

Did you even read the thread?

Soooo, if the shockwave envelops earth and doesnt kill anything but the reapers, why does it blow up the Normandy's engines?

And how is Shepard alive?

Speculation: A shockwave hitting a ship in the middle of a mass relay jump is going to cause damage. At the very least, it's going to knock you out of the mass effect corridor (which we can see it did).

Also, Sheperd isn't alive.

[Bubalo]

The Razman wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

Yes. The Normandy can outrun the initial shockwave quite easily. It's the one which is targeted at the mass relays which he can't outrun.

Did you even read the thread?

Soooo, if the shockwave envelops earth and doesnt kill anything but the reapers, why does it blow up the Normandy's engines?

And how is Shepard alive?

Speculation: A shockwave hitting a ship in the middle of a mass relay jump is going to cause damage. At the very least, it's going to knock you out of the mass effect corridor (which we can see it did).

Also, Sheperd isn't alive.

Didnt Jessica (or whatever her name is) comment on how the Normandy wasnt doing a mass relay jump?

[The Razman]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

He has no reason to outrun it.

... a big shockwave powerful enough to envelope the entire star system which looks bigger and full of more energy than a supernova isn't a reason to run?

Ok. Explain to me how sitting still and doing nothing when a big shockwave like that comes towards you is the sensible option, the one that Joker would have taken?

Because no other ships are seen leaving.

My lord ignorance is a strong trait with you.

Neither is the Normandy, what's your point?

Oh wait, that's right, you don't have one ... you're just repeating things people have already discussed in this thread and then adding insults borne of a 12-year-old on the end of each one. Good stuff, carry on.

[chester013]

Oh I'm stupid, my bad MSNCB. I forgot American news stations were all staffed by MENSA members. Wait a second...

[bleetman]

The Razman wrote...

Take a look at the scene where the fleet arrives in the Sol System again. See that sun? That's Earth's sun, that is. Doesn't look very far away, does it ...?

The Sol Relay isn't that far away from Earth, in reality. Not considering how fast the Normandy is. Joker could easily have reached it ahead of the shockwave and entered the relay.

Assuming that they moved it from its original position (as in, from the very edge of the solar system), it's at the very least past Jupiter.

That's a pretty bloody long way from Earth for Joker to get there first, and make it far enough away to conveniently crash in another system.

[The Razman]

Bubalo wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

Yes. The Normandy can outrun the initial shockwave quite easily. It's the one which is targeted at the mass relays which he can't outrun.

Did you even read the thread?

Soooo, if the shockwave envelops earth and doesnt kill anything but the reapers, why does it blow up the Normandy's engines?

And how is Shepard alive?

Speculation: A shockwave hitting a ship in the middle of a mass relay jump is going to cause damage. At the very least, it's going to knock you out of the mass effect corridor (which we can see it did).

Also, Sheperd isn't alive.

Didnt Jessica (or whatever her name is) comment on how the Normandy wasnt doing a mass relay jump?

I don't know who you're referring to, or what?

[Aesieru]

The Razman wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Bubalo wrote...

In what Joker would do, tell me, any where in the series did Joker ever run from a fight? Yes he ran from EMPs ad explosions but did he ever run from an unknown? If he was so concerned with outrunning the shockwave why not sit further out to see what the shockwave did to other ships before running? The problem with the Normandy bit is the consistency of the character as well as the crew that has served with Shepard through think and thin. 

The fact that in the Final Hours app, Mac says investigory questions pertaining to the StarChild are cut as well as other longer sequences means there could be information we are not aware of which means at this point your's as well as others "logical explanations" could be false.

How is a shockwave coming towards the Normandy "a fight"? You're right, this is about the consistency of the character. And I'm not on board with the concept that Joker being an absolute idiot and thinking "Hm ... there's a shockwave coming towards us. I guess I'll just sit here and do nothing, because even though I have no idea what's going on, I'm sure the great big wave coming towards us is harmless. After all, when have great big massive supernova-like waves ever hurt anyone in the past, huh?"

Joker doesn't run from fights, but this ain't a fight. It's a shockwave. People arguing "JOKER WOULD NEVER RUN!" are basically arguing that Joker would just fly like an idiot into a shockwave without knowing anything about it. I like to give Joker a bit more intellectual credit than that, personally.

Since the shockwaves come FROM the relays... he'd have to be near a relay to "run from it" in the first place. There was no reason for him to be there as opposed to at the planet the fight was over.

Take a look at the scene where the fleet arrives in the Sol System again. See that sun? That's Earth's sun, that is. Doesn't look very far away, does it ...?

The Sol Relay isn't that far away from Earth, in reality. Not considering how fast the Normandy is. Joker could easily have reached it ahead of the shockwave and entered the relay.

I actually quite expect a short addition to the ending cut-scene in the future DLC which shows this to be the case.

That makes no sense.

If the relay is exploding and causing a shock wave, there is no way to escape it to another relay, no other relay exists to go to.

Unless you think the Crucible was emitting the nova, but that's not how it works, it emitted a beam.

[Talon2000uk]

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Why didn't any other ships run away then?

Yep, confirmed ... you reaaaally haven't read this thread. *sigh*

Quick answer, just for you ... remember the bit just before going into that final battle where Anderson's specifically saying how the Normandy is the fastest ship in the fleet, and that's why it'll be heading the fleet into battle? The Normandy's the only ship fast enough.

Could you stop throwing old, debunked questions at me ad nauseum because you couldn't be bothered to read the thread?

Wow thats one well calibrated shockwave fast enough to destroy the rest of the fleet tbut only just fast enough to catch the normandy at exactly the right place in FTL to land on a a habitible garden world. Very well Calibrated that. 

It was Garus wasn't it.

Modifié par Talon2000uk, 25 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[Hunter of Legends]

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

He has no reason to outrun it.

... a big shockwave powerful enough to envelope the entire star system which looks bigger and full of more energy than a supernova isn't a reason to run?

Ok. Explain to me how sitting still and doing nothing when a big shockwave like that comes towards you is the sensible option, the one that Joker would have taken?

Because no other ships are seen leaving.

My lord ignorance is a strong trait with you.

Neither is the Normandy, what's your point?

You seem to have no point other than using 5 year old arguing tactics.

In fact, that statement right there MAKES NO SENSE.

[Heather Cline]

I disagree with the person in that video.

[Exodus2000]

Sounds like he was reading from a sheet.

[The Razman]

bleetman wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Take a look at the scene where the fleet arrives in the Sol System again. See that sun? That's Earth's sun, that is. Doesn't look very far away, does it ...?

The Sol Relay isn't that far away from Earth, in reality. Not considering how fast the Normandy is. Joker could easily have reached it ahead of the shockwave and entered the relay.

Assuming that they moved it from its original position (as in, from the very edge of the solar system), it's at the very least past Jupiter.

That's a pretty bloody long way from Earth for Joker to get there first, and make it far enough away to conveniently crash in another system.

In fact, looking at the sequence again ... I'd say it's at Jupiter. You can see the fleet going past a planet which looks suspiciously like Jupiter just after coming out of the relay.

We've seen the Normandy's speed, especially with its FTL drives. What's so implausible about it reaching Jupiter quite fast?

[OmegaBlue0231]

I like how he called us stupid in a roundabout way.

[The Razman]

Aesieru wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Bubalo wrote...

In what Joker would do, tell me, any where in the series did Joker ever run from a fight? Yes he ran from EMPs ad explosions but did he ever run from an unknown? If he was so concerned with outrunning the shockwave why not sit further out to see what the shockwave did to other ships before running? The problem with the Normandy bit is the consistency of the character as well as the crew that has served with Shepard through think and thin. 

The fact that in the Final Hours app, Mac says investigory questions pertaining to the StarChild are cut as well as other longer sequences means there could be information we are not aware of which means at this point your's as well as others "logical explanations" could be false.

How is a shockwave coming towards the Normandy "a fight"? You're right, this is about the consistency of the character. And I'm not on board with the concept that Joker being an absolute idiot and thinking "Hm ... there's a shockwave coming towards us. I guess I'll just sit here and do nothing, because even though I have no idea what's going on, I'm sure the great big wave coming towards us is harmless. After all, when have great big massive supernova-like waves ever hurt anyone in the past, huh?"

Joker doesn't run from fights, but this ain't a fight. It's a shockwave. People arguing "JOKER WOULD NEVER RUN!" are basically arguing that Joker would just fly like an idiot into a shockwave without knowing anything about it. I like to give Joker a bit more intellectual credit than that, personally.

Since the shockwaves come FROM the relays... he'd have to be near a relay to "run from it" in the first place. There was no reason for him to be there as opposed to at the planet the fight was over.

Take a look at the scene where the fleet arrives in the Sol System again. See that sun? That's Earth's sun, that is. Doesn't look very far away, does it ...?

The Sol Relay isn't that far away from Earth, in reality. Not considering how fast the Normandy is. Joker could easily have reached it ahead of the shockwave and entered the relay.

I actually quite expect a short addition to the ending cut-scene in the future DLC which shows this to be the case.

That makes no sense.

If the relay is exploding and causing a shock wave, there is no way to escape it to another relay, no other relay exists to go to.

Unless you think the Crucible was emitting the nova, but that's not how it works, it emitted a beam.

No, you've misunderstood.

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

In between 2 and 3, there's a gap where the first shockwave is being emitted (which Joker would be running from), but the Citadel hasn't send out its beam to the mass relays yet. That gap is what we're referring to, where Joker would have time to make a mass relay jump.

[Salis777]

The Razman wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Sequence of events:

1. Sheperd sets off the shockwave.
2. Shockwave travels outward from the Citadel quite slowly, enveloping Earth and all the Reapers.
3. Citadel then explodes sending out its high-speed beam.
4. Beam hits mass relay, which sends it out over whole network.

Yes. The Normandy can outrun the initial shockwave quite easily. It's the one which is targeted at the mass relays which he can't outrun.

Did you even read the thread?

Soooo, if the shockwave envelops earth and doesnt kill anything but the reapers, why does it blow up the Normandy's engines?

And how is Shepard alive?

Speculation: A shockwave hitting a ship in the middle of a mass relay jump is going to cause damage. At the very least, it's going to knock you out of the mass effect corridor (which we can see it did).

Also, Sheperd isn't alive.

Good writing shouldn't require speculation.  In this mode of story anyway (ME1-ME3 trilogy).

Shepard is alive, maybe not in your save but he is in mine