463 réponses à ce sujet

[Jacobcus]

wheelierdan wrote...

im convinced you don't know what a fact is, all any of you really have is a little something we call circumstantial evidence, facts are actual proof.

just because someone matching my description was seen in the area of a murder is not proof i killed someone, its merely circumstantial evidence, there is a difference, please learn this.

When the Co-founder of Bioware announces a world-wide official statement that this is the ending they intended. That is not evidence that is pure fact.

[DangerDavidson]

Jacobcus wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

Jacobcus wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

Jacobcus wrote...

kaisterbahn wrote...

You've done nothing. If you weren't a complete idiot, you'd realize this. But you are, so you don't.  You aren't an intelligent person, so stop trying to act like it. It's ugly and unbecoming.

I just love people who join a thread without reading the previous posts.Try not to act like a child, I have posted quotes by Casey and other Bioware employee's disproving your theory. Their is no IT, stop being so childish and reading between lines that don't exist, their has been an official statement where Bioware states this is the ending they wanted.

Sorry Jacobus, no you haven't. We've already addressed why those quotes don't exactly mean what you think they do. Please try again.

Are you honestly stating that you read something "between" the lines of what they clearly stated? They made a official statement that this is the ending they wanted. Why are you making such childish assumptions about something that has been proven false? Imagine if everyone saw things like you, Joker: Commander Shepard! The Reaper's have destroyed earth! Shepard: No they didn't.

No I did not read between the lines. I am not arguing that their statements said anything about the deliberateness of whatever plot element. In fact my position is that their statements said NOTHING about the deliberateness of whatever plot element.

Their was an official statement that this is how they intended it to end.... Also RetakeMassEffect3 has been shutdown. So the chances of getting some DLC for closure is probably gone, unless they keep to their word.

The links you provided DID say that they INTENDED for the story to play out as it did, yes. They never once confirmed that it was, in fact, the ending, or that the story was complete. I see that Casey Hudson quote about doing stuff "During the events of ME3" rather than after. But I interpreted that as pertaining to future DLC. I do not consider the april DLC to be future DLC as it has definitely been in development for months. 

[FemmeShep]

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

 This is OP and his view on BioWare & the ****ty ending. 

 

I don't know what it is about Alison Brie but I don't find her funny.I liked her on mad men.

Still, it describes how you look right now.

IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's, because if they aren't, then I've wasted over 100+ hours of my life, and that is not acceptable.   

[KingDan97]

Jacobcus wrote...

wheelierdan wrote...

im convinced you don't know what a fact is, all any of you really have is a little something we call circumstantial evidence, facts are actual proof.

just because someone matching my description was seen in the area of a murder is not proof i killed someone, its merely circumstantial evidence, there is a difference, please learn this.

When the Co-founder of Bioware announces a world-wide official statement that this is the ending they intended. That is not evidence that is pure fact.

I believe he was referring to indoctrination theory.

[FellishBeast]

I'm hoping for this OP.

[beank]

I dont think it was every just a theory to begin with.... I say this because:

1. Why would Bioware not Indoctrinate Shepard?

and

2. Once you see the Breath Ending there are very few other options....

For the record.... I both understood that Shepard was indoctrinated and enjoyed the ending as it is.....

[DangerDavidson]

FemmeShep wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

 This is OP and his view on BioWare & the ****ty ending. 

 

I don't know what it is about Alison Brie but I don't find her funny.I liked her on mad men.

Still, it describes how you look right now.

IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's, because if they aren't, then I've wasted over 100+ hours of my life, and that is not acceptable.   

"IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's and ALL SIGNS POINT TO IT"

-Fixed

[DangerDavidson]

beank wrote...

I dont think it was every just a theory to begin with.... I say this because:

1. Why would Bioware not Indoctrinate Shepard?

and

2. Once you see the Breath Ending there are very few other options....

For the record.... I both understood that Shepard was indoctrinated and enjoyed the ending as it is.....

Mhm. Mhm.   Yeah.

[Jacobcus]

KingDan97 wrote...

Jacobcus wrote...

wheelierdan wrote...

im convinced you don't know what a fact is, all any of you really have is a little something we call circumstantial evidence, facts are actual proof.

just because someone matching my description was seen in the area of a murder is not proof i killed someone, its merely circumstantial evidence, there is a difference, please learn this.

When the Co-founder of Bioware announces a world-wide official statement that this is the ending they intended. That is not evidence that is pure fact.

I believe he was referring to indoctrination theory.

Ah then if that is so I apologize Mr.Man 
ಠᴥಠ 

[Jaron Oberyn]

KingDan97 wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

Hi Guys! I'm back from the GYM, Ive read some responses and I will address them quickly!

OP writes gym in all caps people, time to pack up he clearly isn't going to hear any logic.(Protip: You put acronyms in all caps, when you shorten a word it's lower case, so unless you just got back from the gyroscopic yodelling monkey, it's gym)

Lol nice one. 


-Polite

[FemmeShep]

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

 This is OP and his view on BioWare & the ****ty ending. 

 

I don't know what it is about Alison Brie but I don't find her funny.I liked her on mad men.

Still, it describes how you look right now.

IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's, because if they aren't, then I've wasted over 100+ hours of my life, and that is not acceptable.   

"IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's and ALL SIGNS POINT TO IT"

-Fixed

[DangerDavidson]

wheelierdan wrote...

im convinced you don't know what a fact is, all any of you really have is a little something we call circumstantial evidence, facts are actual proof.

just because someone matching my description was seen in the area of a murder is not proof i killed someone, its merely circumstantial evidence, there is a difference, please learn this.

Yeah I can admit that its possible I threw in proof when I meant evidence. I have been trying all day to figure out why SciPy's WLLS is fitting some gaussians but not others and responding to this thread in the downtime.  I apologize. However, I think my overall message is clear, and that the proponents against IT have not been very consistent/coherent with their EVIDENCE (yes evidence :  )  ).

[beank]

DangerDavidson wrote...
Mhm. Mhm.   Yeah.

Why could it not be both?

[Jacobcus]

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

 This is OP and his view on BioWare & the ****ty ending. 

 

I don't know what it is about Alison Brie but I don't find her funny.I liked her on mad men.

Still, it describes how you look right now.

IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's, because if they aren't, then I've wasted over 100+ hours of my life, and that is not acceptable.   

"IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's and ALL SIGNS POINT TO IT"

-Fixed

Lol you see, right their shows a bias opinion man. 

[DangerDavidson]

beank wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...
Mhm. Mhm.   Yeah.

Why could it not be both?

It is! That was a post of agreement.

[wheelierdan]

DangerDavidson wrote...

wheelierdan wrote...

im convinced you don't know what a fact is, all any of you really have is a little something we call circumstantial evidence, facts are actual proof.

just because someone matching my description was seen in the area of a murder is not proof i killed someone, its merely circumstantial evidence, there is a difference, please learn this.

Yeah I can admit that its possible I threw in proof when I meant evidence. I have been trying all day to figure out why SciPy's WLLS is fitting some gaussians but not others and responding to this thread in the downtime.  I apologize. However, I think my overall message is clear, and that the proponents against IT have not been very consistent/coherent with their EVIDENCE (yes evidence :  )  ).

i understand, its an easy word to use casually, im not that upset about it.

[DangerDavidson]

Jacobcus wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

 This is OP and his view on BioWare & the ****ty ending. 

 

I don't know what it is about Alison Brie but I don't find her funny.I liked her on mad men.

Still, it describes how you look right now.

IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's, because if they aren't, then I've wasted over 100+ hours of my life, and that is not acceptable.   

"IT MUST BE INDOCTRINATION, because BioWare are geniuse's and ALL SIGNS POINT TO IT"

-Fixed

Lol you see, right their shows a bias opinion man. 

Please please please stop using rhetoric you don't understand.

We've been over the fact that I am not exhibiting confirmation bias. I presented facts from both sides, and explained why logically, I am choosing one over the other. I have no preference for the ending. Again:

I HAVE NO PREFERENCE FOR THE ENDING

I just want to see the story they intended to show without any amendments from the incredulous fan base.

Modifié par DangerDavidson, 26 mars 2012 - 01:41 .

[beank]

DangerDavidson wrote...
It is! That was a post of agreement.

Sorry... thought the "Yeah" sounded sarcastic.... Ive never been good at decering tones from text....

[DoctorEss]

DangerDavidson wrote...

 Can we stop calling IT a theory? Its so blatantly obvious what is going on at this point. We need to bin the people saying:

    - I hate the ending it doesnt make sense
    - The ending is fine I like it they way it is

into the following category:

    - I didn't get that Shepard is being indoctrinated.

I normally do not care this much about people's opinions of video games, but I am seeing a LOT of posts of the like:

[/i] [/i] [/i] · Open[/list]@[/s]masseffect[/b] Unlike most people i loved the ending, don't plan on paying for an alternate if u make one as DLC. Not supposed to end happy.

[/i] [/i] [/i] · Open[/list]@[/s]masseffect[/b] It is so hard to be mad at your company. Please make this right. Your fans wanted the promised closure to the great ME series.

Don't mean to single those people out, just random snippets I pulled off twitter. My only issue with these types of mass responses is that they will force bioware to do something stupid in the long run like change the existing story. Obviously the ending DLC patch that is coming in April is already/mostly complete so it likely will do nothing to affect that. However, it is definitely possible/easy for them to add little snippets of dialogue or something that make the surprise more obvious. I feel like making it more obvious detracts from the entertainment value.

It's also quite strange to me that this staggering number of people doesn't have the ability to go do a little in-game/online exploring and see what its actually all about. That, or they are just ignoring it for...whatever reason >.>.

I feel like the word theory here is being used in the same way that Creationists use it to debate the reality of Evolution:

a proposed explanation whos status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation

where it really should be:

a coherent group of tested propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explenation and prediction for a class of phenomena.

The IT is not rampant speculation. It has a very concerete set of evidence behind it. I'm sure other theories have substantial evidence behind them as well..(probably...well...maybe........yeah I haven't really seen any so far ), but this one is fairly logically complete.

My point is: stop it, and wait.


PS. I see a lot of posts below about the "plot holes" in IT. Would one of you be willing to lay out what you think those plot holes actually are? As far as I can tell, there are none and it actually consolidates all of the plotholes in the current ending:

1. Harbinger/Reapers come to earth, start indoctrinating Shepard.
2. There may or may not be an indoctrination device on the normandy (James Vega and his "wtf humming" quotes)
3. Dreams of loser child hallucination are meant to break shepard's hope.
4. Harbinger blast shepard at Conduit 2.0 and while he is on the ground continues to try to break him.

An indoctrinated Shepard, the "hero of the galaxy" would be an excellent reaper weapon.

From another post: http://www.twitch.tv...one/b/312765460

Indoctrination is false. Deal with it. Period.

Here's why:

1.
First and foremost, business, legality. That is to say, bad business,
and a lack of legality. That would imply they knowingly sold a product
under false pretenses (false advertising is not legal), and continually
did so, and then sold a product that was incomplete. This is not only,
again, illegal, but horribly foolish, as they'd damage sales, cause
product returns, and damage their reputation.

2. Bandwidth. Not
every player has a great internet connection available to download a
large DLC package. Further, not ever Xbox player is on Live Gold, thus,
no downloading of DLC at all, forcing them to pay Microsoft to upgrade
their account, and download said DLC. Otherwise, stuck with an
incomplete product.

3. Ending itself: There would be no ending,
everything would be the indoc dream or whatever, so nothing actually
happened, galaxy still hosed in some way or other.

Indoctrination theory is nothing but desperate, sad grasping at straws.

[DangerDavidson]

beank wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...
It is! That was a post of agreement.

Sorry... thought the "Yeah" sounded sarcastic.... Ive never been good at decering tones from text....

Yeah I have a tendency to overestimate the translational ability of IM/Chat/Text Message.

[KingDan97]

DoctorEss wrote...

2. Bandwidth. Not
every player has a great internet connection available to download a
large DLC package. Further, not ever Xbox player is on Live Gold, thus,
no downloading of DLC at all, forcing them to pay Microsoft to upgrade
their account, and download said DLC. Otherwise, stuck with an
incomplete product.

Sorry but you don't need gold to buy DLC. You need it to play multiplayer.

[DoctorEss]

KingDan97 wrote...

DoctorEss wrote...

2. Bandwidth. Not
every player has a great internet connection available to download a
large DLC package. Further, not ever Xbox player is on Live Gold, thus,
no downloading of DLC at all, forcing them to pay Microsoft to upgrade
their account, and download said DLC. Otherwise, stuck with an
incomplete product.

Sorry but you don't need gold to buy DLC. You need it to play multiplayer.

Fine, so?  Still not ever player is on Live, nor is every player on live given a connection good enough to download the package.

Nor can you force people to BUY dlc for an incomplete game that was illegally, falsely advertised.

That's the thing about "free" arguments.  Unless things have changed, Microsoft still doesn't allow for free content on XBL.

[DangerDavidson]

DoctorEss wrote...

Indoctrination is false. Deal with it. Period.

Here's why:

1.
First and foremost, business, legality. That is to say, bad business,
and a lack of legality. That would imply they knowingly sold a product
under false pretenses (false advertising is not legal), and continually
did so, and then sold a product that was incomplete. This is not only,
again, illegal, but horribly foolish, as they'd damage sales, cause
product returns, and damage their reputation.

2. Bandwidth. Not
every player has a great internet connection available to download a
large DLC package. Further, not ever Xbox player is on Live Gold, thus,
no downloading of DLC at all, forcing them to pay Microsoft to upgrade
their account, and download said DLC. Otherwise, stuck with an
incomplete product.

3. Ending itself: There would be no ending,
everything would be the indoc dream or whatever, so nothing actually
happened, galaxy still hosed in some way or other.

Indoctrination theory is nothing but desperate, sad grasping at straws.

First, it is understood that you are replying to OP in your post. lol. Please do not quote the entire original post in its entirety.

Second, a LOT of people have quite excellent internet connections. We are not on par with South Korea, per se, but I think they can expect everyone they sold a game to that includes an ONLINE PASS, which is not an insignificant amount of content, to be able to download future patches.

They are NOT selling you a knowingly complete product. THe end user agreement allows for the existance of bugs, etc. They reserve the right to update/redo any content as they see fit. The box says that an internet connection is required for MP/whatever. 

You have ALL the information that is required for you to make a purchasing decision, even if you/hardly anyone actually reads it. They are in the clear.

I saw somewhere that like >2/3 of all ME2 owners bought LSB. I will not use this for evidence at this point because I don't have a reference. If someone has one, please present it, I'm quite sure it exists. 

Every game has an update system, and unless you pirate them (that's your problem, for better or worse), you can expect that an internet connection is necessary to receive them.

Modifié par DangerDavidson, 26 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[DoctorEss]

DangerDavidson wrote...

DoctorEss wrote...

Indoctrination is false. Deal with it. Period.

Here's why:

1.
First and foremost, business, legality. That is to say, bad business,
and a lack of legality. That would imply they knowingly sold a product
under false pretenses (false advertising is not legal), and continually
did so, and then sold a product that was incomplete. This is not only,
again, illegal, but horribly foolish, as they'd damage sales, cause
product returns, and damage their reputation.

2. Bandwidth. Not
every player has a great internet connection available to download a
large DLC package. Further, not ever Xbox player is on Live Gold, thus,
no downloading of DLC at all, forcing them to pay Microsoft to upgrade
their account, and download said DLC. Otherwise, stuck with an
incomplete product.

3. Ending itself: There would be no ending,
everything would be the indoc dream or whatever, so nothing actually
happened, galaxy still hosed in some way or other.

Indoctrination theory is nothing but desperate, sad grasping at straws.

First, it is understood that you are replying to OP in your post. lol. Please do not quote the entire original post in its entirety.

Second, a LOT of people have quite excellent internet connections. We are not on par with South Korea, per se, but I think they can expect everyone they sold a game to that includes an ONLINE PASS, which is not an insignificant amount of content, to be able to download future patches.

They are NOT selling you a knowingly complete product. THe end user agreement allows for the existance of bugs, etc. They reserve the right to update/redo any content as they see fit. The box says that an internet connection is required for MP/whatever. 

You have ALL the information that is required for you to make a purchasing decision, even if you/hardly anyone actually reads it. They are in the clear.

I saw somewhere that like >2/3 of all ME2 owners bought LSB. I will not use this for evidence at this point because I don't have a reference. If someone has one, please present it, I'm quite sure it exists. 

Doesn't matter if they can figure a bunch of people will have a decent connection.  They still can't sell a product based on that assumption.  That's why, in general, DLC is supposed to be non-essential stuff, and for the most part, usually is.

The EULA allows for some things, but again:  Advertising it as a complete product, and so on and so forth, and then revealing NO! HAH!  In fact, we have a secret REAL ending! counts as selling you an incomplete product, as the DLC is required to make it the actual game.

They would not be in the clear.

You have obviously very little knowledge of how these things work.  I understand you're sad and desperate for the indoc theory to be real, but face it, it's not.

[beank]

DoctorEss wrote...

Indoctrination is false. Deal with it. Period.

Here's why:

1.
First and foremost, business, legality. That is to say, bad business,
and a lack of legality. That would imply they knowingly sold a product
under false pretenses (false advertising is not legal), and continually
did so, and then sold a product that was incomplete. This is not only,
again, illegal, but horribly foolish, as they'd damage sales, cause
product returns, and damage their reputation.

2. Bandwidth. Not
every player has a great internet connection available to download a
large DLC package. Further, not ever Xbox player is on Live Gold, thus,
no downloading of DLC at all, forcing them to pay Microsoft to upgrade
their account, and download said DLC. Otherwise, stuck with an
incomplete product.

3. Ending itself: There would be no ending,
everything would be the indoc dream or whatever, so nothing actually
happened, galaxy still hosed in some way or other.

Indoctrination theory is nothing but desperate, sad grasping at straws.

While I cant attest to the legality of it, the product is by no means incomplete. Though I do agree that it is foolish.

Also 360 owner do not need gold to download DLC, just to play online.