463 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreogan]

Jacobcus wrote...

Well either way, we can all agree, Mass Effect 3's ending had a MASS effect on our lives, am ar right :Ð!?

mass(-m) effect = ass effect on our lives

m is the 13th letter of the alphabet

13 is an unlucky number

Shepard is unlucky

Unlucky people get indoctrinated

Shepard is indoctrinated

Modifié par Dreogan, 26 mars 2012 - 03:11 .

[Jacobcus]

Dreogan wrote...

Jacobcus wrote...

Well either way, we can all agree, Mass Effect 3's ending had a MASS effect on our lives, am ar right :Ð!?

mass(-m) effect = ass effect on our lives

m is the 13th letter of the alphabet

13 is an unlucky number

Shepard is unlucky

Unlucky people get indoctrinated

Shepard is indoctrinated

Its how we roll.
 

[Holding5Aces]

Here's the problem.

This series was about as subtle as a brick in the face.

Why do we have to speculate anything when it comes to the ending?

[SovereignWill]

There's no reasoning with this guy. Moving on.
He just sits there waiting for people to reply and make snarky comebacks based on pure speculations.
I won't bother trying to convince you otherwise. These endings are what-you-see-is-what-you-get. Deal with it.

Indoctrination Hypothesis, while elegant, is simply not a fact.
Bioware has yet to acknowledge your collective delusions. And your arguments that none of the press releases have denied your precious theory are pointless. They won't even address our concerns directly, why would they go out of their way to discredit or approve this hypothesis. Speculations from everyone!

I'd much rather be disheartened by their decision to conclude with these ridiculous endings than agreeing that they tried to trick us and failed poorly. If they wanted to do IT, once you conclude this *mind trial* there would have to be the real conclusion. THEN it would have been awesome. As it stands it's just a series of convoluted narrative tropes poorly stitched together. I'm not stupid, I have seen all of the *proofs* you guys claim, and while I agree it would have been an elegant twist (if presented properly) it has to conclude afterward. Not months later.

I'd go one step further and wish the IT started after The Illusive Man's base. You we're indoctrinated right there and none of the lazy London mission would have taken place! They could simply release the REAL Take Back Earth mission where all of your war assets mattered instead of an arbitrary number in Space Magic Excel. Mass Effect is fantastic, but alot of corners we're cut in ME3. Several portions of the endings was cut. The files are still on disc for various dialogs from war assets that we're supposed to interact during the final push.

They've announced they will add content to bring clarity and closure, this won't be : oh hey guys this was all a prank. You were indoctrinated, here's the real ending trololo... They won't change it.

I've already moved on. Once they announce that DLC and it has nothing to do with IT, you'll move out of the denial phase. I won't give Bioware the benefit of the doubt. People clinging at this hypothesis and calling us stupid for not getting the genius of the writing are plainly arrogant. #hackitout

Modifié par SovereignWill, 26 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[Jacobcus]

Holding5Aces wrote...

Here's the problem.

This series was about as subtle as a brick in the face.

Why do we have to speculate anything when it comes to the ending?

 

[Holding5Aces]

Jacobcus wrote...

Holding5Aces wrote...

Here's the problem.

This series was about as subtle as a brick in the face.

Why do we have to speculate anything when it comes to the ending?

 

So much for AT (asteroid theory) concerning the extinction of the dinosaurs.

It all makes sense now!  Thanks!

[Fuzzfro]

It's still a theory, there is a lot of evidence behind it but none of it has been confirmed yet.
The indoctrination Theory is just a fan made suggestion that explains the plot holes in bioware's terrible attempt at ending the trilogy.

[Well]

SovereignWill wrote...

There's no reasoning with this guy. Moving on.
He just sits there waiting for people to reply and make snarky comebacks based on pure speculations.
I won't bother trying to convince you otherwise. These endings are what-you-see-is-what-you-get. Deal with it.

Indoctrination Hypothesis, while elegant, is simply not a fact.
Bioware has yet to acknowledge your collective delusions. And your arguments that none of the press releases have denied your precious theory are pointless. They won't even address our concerns directly, why would they go out of their way to discredit or approve this hypothesis. Speculations from everyone!

I'd much rather be disheartened by their decision to conclude with these ridiculous endings than agreeing that they tried to trick us and failed poorly. If they wanted to do IT, once you conclude this *mind trial* they're would have to be the real conclusion. THEN it would have been awesome. As it stands it's just a series of convoluted narrative tropes poorly stitched together. I'm not stupid, I have seen all of the *proofs* you guys claim, and while I agree it would have been an elegant twist (if presented properly) it has to conclude afterward. Not months later.

I'd go one step further and wish the IT started after The Illusive Man's base. You we're indoctrinated right there and none of the lazy London mission would have taken place! They could simply release the REAL Take Back Earth mission where all of your war assets mattered instead of an arbitrary number in Space Magic Excel. Mass Effect is fantastic, but alot of corners we're cut in ME3. Several portions of the endings was cut. The files are still on disc for various dialogs from war assets that we're supposed to interact during the final push.

They've announced they will add content to bring clarity and closure, this won't be : oh hey guys this was all a prank. You were indoctrinated, here's the real ending trololo... They won't change it.

I've already moved on. Once they announce that DLC and it has nothing to do with IT, you'll move out of the denial phase. I won't give Bioware the benefit of the doubt. People clinging at this hypothesis and calling us stupid for not getting the genius of the writing are plainly arrogant. #hackitout

It was a slow day for him at the fertilizer plant.So he thought he pass some sith along.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

SovereignWill wrote...

There's no reasoning with this guy. Moving on.
He just sits there waiting for people to reply and make snarky comebacks based on pure speculations.
I won't bother trying to convince you otherwise. These endings are what-you-see-is-what-you-get. Deal with it.

Indoctrination Hypothesis, while elegant, is simply not a fact.
Bioware has yet to acknowledge your collective delusions. And your arguments that none of the press releases have denied your precious theory are pointless. They won't even address our concerns directly, why would they go out of their way to discredit or approve this hypothesis. Speculations from everyone!

I'd much rather be disheartened by their decision to conclude with these ridiculous endings than agreeing that they tried to trick us and failed poorly. If they wanted to do IT, once you conclude this *mind trial* they're would have to be the real conclusion. THEN it would have been awesome. As it stands it's just a series of convoluted narrative tropes poorly stitched together. I'm not stupid, I have seen all of the *proofs* you guys claim, and while I agree it would have been an elegant twist (if presented properly) it has to conclude afterward. Not months later.

I'd go one step further and wish the IT started after The Illusive Man's base. You we're indoctrinated right there and none of the lazy London mission would have taken place! They could simply release the REAL Take Back Earth mission where all of your war assets mattered instead of an arbitrary number in Space Magic Excel. Mass Effect is fantastic, but alot of corners we're cut in ME3. Several portions of the endings was cut. The files are still on disc for various dialogs from war assets that we're supposed to interact during the final push.

They've announced they will add content to bring clarity and closure, this won't be : oh hey guys this was all a prank. You were indoctrinated, here's the real ending trololo... They won't change it.

I've already moved on. Once they announce that DLC and it has nothing to do with IT, you'll move out of the denial phase. I won't give Bioware the benefit of the doubt. People clinging at this hypothesis and calling us stupid for not getting the genius of the writing are plainly arrogant. #hackitout

You are absolutely right... They have not out right denied it.... Thats interesting because when you ask them if they are changing the ending they say they are not... Only explaining it... But if anyone asks them specifically it Indoctrination Theory is true they dance around the question like a politician... Interesting indeed... Why do you think that is sir? Why? Tell me... I want to know your oppinion. I actually want to know your opinion on that sir.

[Dreogan]

You are absolutely right... They have not out right denied it.... That's interesting because when you ask them if they are changing the ending they say they are not... Only explaining it... But if anyone asks them specifically if Indoctrination Theory is true they dance around the question like a politician... Interesting indeed... Why do you think that is sir? Why? Tell me... I want to know your opinion. I actually want to know your opinion on that sir.

Because, for a lot of people, validating indoctrination would be considered a change in the ending. Besides, validating indoctrination would signal they were trying to do something really "deep" and completely blew it: the audience determines their success, not the storyteller.

Modifié par Dreogan, 26 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[N-Seven]

DangerDavidson wrote...

N-Seven wrote...

Of course destroy is fine if your Shep happens to not care about the Geth and let the Quarians destroy them.  Like in this ME3 scene here.  And what if in your conversations you never take EDI's side?   It' always been possible to be the 'Renegade' Shepard which doesn't value synthetic life that much.



So in which case, it's not a negative.  Another strike against IT.

You realize that in the context of IT, picking Destroy does not really mean you think you are killing Geth. It means you are picking the least favourable choice as PRESENTED TO YOU, to break out of the mind-fu@k. 

Soemone said something like this before:

Since the onset of ME2, the entire objective of the series is to DESTROY the reapers. That is your objective as Shepard for every second of the last two games, destroy them so they don't destroy you. The very fact that that option is all of a sudden a controversial topic in the mind of shepard signals that some questionable paradigm shift has occured in his/her mind. Why would that happen? One explanation is IT.
 

We're not playing the same Shepard, first off.

Also, Shepard is fully capable of being a jerk.  Destroy isn't necessarily the most negative option.  Actually it's the only one of the three options the Catalyst gives him where he doesn't tell Shepard that he/she is going to die outright.  Heck my Shep wants to live.  It's simply being red in color isn't a negative either.  And some people like to play Renegade Shepard all the way through.

This is the game's ending, as intended, for the time being.  That quote from lead writer Mac Walters, he's definitely speaking about this as the end.  'The Catalyst, the child you speak to at the end of the game...'  etc.   Then he goes on to mention all of the Mass Effect Universe questions they could answer through the Catalyst and how Casey changed his mind.   I would think it's fairly obvious here he's not talking about this as if it was a struggle inside Shepard's mind. 

Also I sense you're thinking that detractors don't 'get it', like it's too heady of a concept.    It's not really lofty stuff.  The good ol' mind-bender scenario.  We get it, the protagonist makes some symbolic choice inside some imagined/illusionary reality to determine his fate,  has been played out in novels, comic books, tv-shows, and as recently in movies like Matrix, Inception, Total Recall, etc.  I've been reading/watching sci-fi for 35 years or so, it's not entirely new.

[Jacobcus]

 The funny thing is, its more acceptable then the actual ending.

[DangerDavidson]

N-Seven wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

N-Seven wrote...

Of course destroy is fine if your Shep happens to not care about the Geth and let the Quarians destroy them.  Like in this ME3 scene here.  And what if in your conversations you never take EDI's side?   It' always been possible to be the 'Renegade' Shepard which doesn't value synthetic life that much.



So in which case, it's not a negative.  Another strike against IT.

You realize that in the context of IT, picking Destroy does not really mean you think you are killing Geth. It means you are picking the least favourable choice as PRESENTED TO YOU, to break out of the mind-fu@k. 

Soemone said something like this before:

Since the onset of ME2, the entire objective of the series is to DESTROY the reapers. That is your objective as Shepard for every second of the last two games, destroy them so they don't destroy you. The very fact that that option is all of a sudden a controversial topic in the mind of shepard signals that some questionable paradigm shift has occured in his/her mind. Why would that happen? One explanation is IT.
 

We're not playing the same Shepard, first off.

Also, Shepard is fully capable of being a jerk.  Destroy isn't necessarily the most negative option.  Actually it's the only one of the three options the Catalyst gives him where he doesn't tell Shepard that he/she is going to die outright.  Heck my Shep wants to live.  It's simply being red in color isn't a negative either.  And some people like to play Renegade Shepard all the way through.

This is the game's ending, as intended, for the time being.  That quote from lead writer Mac Walters, he's definitely speaking about this as the end.  'The Catalyst, the child you speak to at the end of the game...'  etc.   Then he goes on to mention all of the Mass Effect Universe questions they could answer through the Catalyst and how Casey changed his mind.   I would think it's fairly obvious here he's not talking about this as if it was a struggle inside Shepard's mind. 

Also I sense you're thinking that detractors don't 'get it', like it's too heady of a concept.    It's not really lofty stuff.  The good ol' mind-bender scenario.  We get it, the protagonist makes some symbolic choice inside some imagined/illusionary reality to determine his fate,  has been played out in novels, comic books, tv-shows, and as recently in movies like Matrix, Inception, Total Recall, etc.  I've been reading/watching sci-fi for 35 years or so, it's not entirely new.

Oh perfect, then you understand completely : ).  Again, to me its just a matter of weighing the evidence. From the evidence presented, I feel like there is a low probability of IT being false. Completely possible, just unlikely.

[Tevatronnd]

 No one can prove indoctrination theory wrong for the same reason that no one can prove my hypothesis that we are all living in the Matrix wrong. Because proving that something isn't all a dream or a computer simulation is impossible. For the same reason proving that there isn't a teapot orbiting Alpha Centauri is impossible. If I told you Shepard was in an indoctrination dream from the moment he first saw Sovereign in Mass Effect 1, how would you prove that assertion wrong?

[ticklefist]

Dreogan wrote...

Jacobcus wrote...

Well either way, we can all agree, Mass Effect 3's ending had a MASS effect on our lives, am ar right :Ð!?

mass(-m) effect = ass effect on our lives

m is the 13th letter of the alphabet

13 is an unlucky number

Shepard is unlucky

Unlucky people get indoctrinated

Shepard is indoctrinated

All the proof I need.

[SovereignWill]

Dreogan wrote...

You are absolutely right... They have not out right denied it.... That's interesting because when you ask them if they are changing the ending they say they are not... Only explaining it... But if anyone asks them specifically if Indoctrination Theory is true they dance around the question like a politician... Interesting indeed... Why do you think that is sir? Why? Tell me... I want to know your opinion. I actually want to know your opinion on that sir.

Because, for a lot of people, validating indoctrination would be considered a change in the ending. Besides, validating indoctrination would signal they were trying to do something really "deep" and completely blew it: the audience determines their success, not the storyteller.

Yes, exactly. If they acknowledge IT, they will ****** off the people who actually liked these endings. The people already dissapointed won't have a change of heart and say OOOoooh you clever bastards you really did trick us haha. EA take all my money now for further DLC! IT is simply a different form of people displeased with the endings. You want to believe that you like the endings because they never occured! It was all a mind****! So clever!

Once the fiscal year is over (most likely march 31st) they'll address the issues. We can expect some kind of announcement at PAX in early april. Until then, they are staying silent to prevent any further PR damage and hope to cash in. Acknowledging that they screwed up, or they provided a temporary troll-ending is financial suicide. Saying they evade confirming IT because they are up to something is simply wishful thinking. Comes PAX or the next public announcement from Bioware either the IT crowd will have their hopes crushed once again, or the already disgruntled fan base will be like : oh really? that's really what you meant to do all along? It will simply re-ignite the arguments against how poorly presented the actual endings were. 

For the record, I really liked the Mass Effect universe, read all novels, read the codex. I had high hopes that they would actually deliver. But it is my humble opinion that they dropped the ball in the final minutes. I truely wished for ME3 to be the masterpiece it was meant to be. As it stands, this passion of several years as been diminished by the poor execution of the conclusion. Only by accepting the ending as a complete failure and making up my own ending instead can I continue to revere this amazing story. I won't hopelessly cling to bugs/glitches/plotholes of an ending sequence stitched together during the final month before certification in january as the REAL ending.

If this theory helps people cope with it, good for them. But it seems to me much worse for IT to be real instead of the current trainwreck of an ending. Catalyst(deus ex machina) and Crucible(reset button) are such a lazy way out of an otherwise spectacular work of fiction! I'd much rather have them completely removed out of ME3.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Carl Sagan

Modifié par SovereignWill, 26 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Jacobcus]

ticklefist wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

Jacobcus wrote...

Well either way, we can all agree, Mass Effect 3's ending had a MASS effect on our lives, am ar right :Ð!?

mass(-m) effect = ass effect on our lives

m is the 13th letter of the alphabet

13 is an unlucky number

Shepard is unlucky

Unlucky people get indoctrinated

Shepard is indoctrinated

All the proof I need.

Lol it truly has been a blast, but I'm out. G'night all, happy arguing all :Ð!

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Dreogan wrote...

You are absolutely right... They have not out right denied it.... That's interesting because when you ask them if they are changing the ending they say they are not... Only explaining it... But if anyone asks them specifically if Indoctrination Theory is true they dance around the question like a politician... Interesting indeed... Why do you think that is sir? Why? Tell me... I want to know your opinion. I actually want to know your opinion on that sir.

Because, for a lot of people, validating indoctrination would be considered a change in the ending. Besides, validating indoctrination would signal they were trying to do something really "deep" and completely blew it: the audience determines their success, not the storyteller.

I NEVER asked for VALIDATION... I WANT THEM TO TELL ME IT IS NOT TRUE. THEY WILL NOT DO THIS . WHY???????????????????????

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Jacobcus wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

Jacobcus wrote...

Well either way, we can all agree, Mass Effect 3's ending had a MASS effect on our lives, am ar right :Ð!?

mass(-m) effect = ass effect on our lives

m is the 13th letter of the alphabet

13 is an unlucky number

Shepard is unlucky

Unlucky people get indoctrinated

Shepard is indoctrinated

All the proof I need.

Lol it truly has been a blast, but I'm out. G'night all, happy arguing all :Ð!

YOU MISS THE POINT ENTIRELY. THEY HAVE NOT SAID THE THEORY IS NOT TRUE!

[DangerDavidson]

Tevatronnd wrote...

 No one can prove indoctrination theory wrong for the same reason that no one can prove my hypothesis that we are all living in the Matrix wrong. Because proving that something isn't all a dream or a computer simulation is impossible. For the same reason proving that there isn't a teapot orbiting Alpha Centauri is impossible. If I told you Shepard was in an indoctrination dream from the moment he first saw Sovereign in Mass Effect 1, how would you prove that assertion wrong?

There has been no visual evidence up until the beggining of ME3 to suggest that shepard is not experiencing reality. If there were dream trees and messed up piles of ashley/kaidan bodies in the collector base or Ilium or any other combination of strange visuals in whatever location, then I would be suspect. There are no cues before this game to indicate this. In this game, there are many and, upon reflection, they are obvious.

[RacistRabbi]

This one does not know how to post pictures. This makes this one sad.

Modifié par RacistRabbi, 26 mars 2012 - 04:36 .

[Dreogan]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

You are absolutely right... They have not out right denied it.... That's interesting because when you ask them if they are changing the ending they say they are not... Only explaining it... But if anyone asks them specifically if Indoctrination Theory is true they dance around the question like a politician... Interesting indeed... Why do you think that is sir? Why? Tell me... I want to know your opinion. I actually want to know your opinion on that sir.

Because, for a lot of people, validating indoctrination would be considered a change in the ending. Besides, validating indoctrination would signal they were trying to do something really "deep" and completely blew it: the audience determines their success, not the storyteller.

I NEVER asked for VALIDATION... I WANT THEM TO TELL ME IT IS NOT TRUE. THEY WILL NOT DO THIS . WHY???????????????????????

Because if they say it isn't true, then they'll have people pissed that it isn't true (especially since the only remaining interpretation would be bad storytelling). Isn't it obvious? They're walking on eggshells right now. 

Granted, it's still bad storytelling even if indoctrination is true. Doesn't stop the believers from having their fun, though, and at least Bioware can keep at least a few people happy-- until April.

Modifié par Dreogan, 26 mars 2012 - 04:45 .

[CroGamer002]

Yes, it's still a theory.

Theory that is proven wrong my Final Hours of Mass Effect 3.
Speculations sir, speculations.

[CroGamer002]

AxisEvolve wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Apophenia.

No need for speculation.

One of the most successful entertainment companies, responsible for KOTOR, BG, etc etc, suddenly acquiring the storytelling skills of a ten year old: highly likely.

Oh wait. No.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. But I hope the "I loved the ending because I believe it is indoctrination" crowd raises hell if it turns out to be false. Just saying... There are people passionately defending the ending because they believe it's a hallucination. But if it turns out to NOT be indoctrination, I sincerly hope those who believed will join their voice in the ending outrage. 

So ironically, they hallucinate here for thinking indoctrination theory is legit.

[Blackmind1]

Mesina2 wrote...

Yes, it's still a theory.

Theory that is proven wrong my Final Hours of Mass Effect 3.
Speculations sir, speculations.

Given the fact that absolutely anything could have been omitted from that 20 page app (Especially if they wanted it to be a secret until April), the app disproves nothing.

If anything, I could spin it as "They wanted us to speculate until PAX so they could catch us off guard". In that case, the app telling us to speculate would prove IT right.