463 réponses à ce sujet

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Megachaz wrote...

OP is incapable of reasoning with... let this thread die.

Aww I wanted to keep arguing with the chicken and the Hanar jellyfish! 

Anyways this is the perfect ending description. 

Space magic  + Aliens  + wtf moments  = Mass Effect Ending 

[Gaddmeister]

DasGota wrote...

I thought Ray's letter was pretty much the nail in the coffin for the Indoctrination Theory? (Hypothesis, wishful thinking, delusion, whatever you want to call it). I mean he pretty much states "we're sorry not everyone likes it, but look how much the reviewers did! Thanks for your feedback, stop yelling please." 

I didn't see anything in there that said "teehee, we know something you don't know!"

Not to mention this is terrible PR for Bioware. Why on earth would they let this outrage carry on for so long if they had something planned? It's hurting their sales, company, and reputation as a whole. No self-respecting CEO would let this drama drag out longer than it needs too if they had something pre-planned before releasing the game. 

This. Real world evidence trumps in-game evidence.

It would make no sense to let this mess continue If there was more to this than what we have already been told. Of course I could be wrong, who knows. But if so, then Bioware/EA should have a discussion with their PR department.

[cyrrant]

Oh look, another post by the Jehovah's Witnesses of the BSN. They're always running around with their pamphlets telling you why theirs is the only true ending. We're all just too dumb to understand, apparently.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[RLesueur]

DangerDavidson wrote...

 Can we stop calling IT a theory? Its so blatantly obvious what is going on at this point. We need to bin the people saying:

I was totally with you here until you continued and I realised that you actually thought that Indoctrination wasn't a laughable bit of fan fiction that some people are clinging to like a life jacket.

[ImmovableMover]

He would stop posting after I challenged him on his "THIS THEORY IS PERFECT. I CAN REBUT ANY CRITICISM" stance.

Still waiting on a proper explanation for the StarGazing scene.

Though I'd like to repeat my initial stance - I am not anti-indoctrination theory, I genuinely think it would be a damn good twist. But I am anti-indoctrinated-indoctrination-theory guys. This belief is anything but certain.

[Rip504]

So ME4 will have you fight against an indoctrinated Shepard,while trying to save the "Super Weapon".?

Or maybe... It will be in the distant future,and you will play as Shepard's child. Yes and still have to fight your"dark" indoctrinated father(/mother)...

(Liara & Shepards child. Liara even if she is not your LI,takes what she needs from Shepard... At the End of ME3 it does happen.)

Modifié par Rip504, 25 mars 2012 - 10:30 .

[DangerDavidson]

Janus382 wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Apophenia.

No need for speculation.

One of the most successful entertainment companies, responsible for KOTOR, BG, etc etc, suddenly acquiring the storytelling skills of a ten year old: highly likely.

Oh wait. No.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. But I hope the "I loved the ending because I believe it is indoctrination" crowd raises hell if it turns out to be false. Just saying... There are people passionately defending the ending because they believe it's a hallucination. But if it turns out to NOT be indoctrination, I sincerly hope those who believed will join their voice in the ending outrage. 

They are also responsible for KOTOR2, DA2, and SWTOR... so, cuts both ways there.  Not to mention, we don't know if the ending was simply rushed due to leaks / time constraints.

And I'd say the die-hard believers will simply abandon the ME series, or ardently hold on and maintain it's still true... even in the face of incontrovertible evidence.  The rest of them will split 50/50 between "normal" ending outrage, and abandoning the series.......... like a lot of us will do 

And yet, those stories, while paling in comparison to their predecessors, are also quite coherent and not bad in any real sense.

[Tov01]

No, I don't believe it is obvious, and I take offense at your condescending attitude.

I don't like the ending any more than you do, but I don't feel like the Indoctrination idea makes it any better.

[DangerDavidson]

ImmovableMover wrote...

He would stop posting after I challenged him on his "THIS THEORY IS PERFECT. I CAN REBUT ANY CRITICISM" stance.

Still waiting on a proper explanation for the StarGazing scene.

Though I'd like to repeat my initial stance - I am not anti-indoctrination theory, I genuinely think it would be a damn good twist. But I am anti-indoctrinated-indoctrination-theory guys. This belief is anything but certain.

I'm not sure what else you want.

We have never gotten a good description of the indoctrination process. I do remember some scenes in the derelict reaper in ME2 where people were dreaming/hallucinating/hearing voices.

I'm not sure what else you want man. I hear what you guys are saying and I am still not 100% sure why you are saying it. Is it debatable that IT turns out to be wrong? Maybe, quite possible. I really do not think you can debate the overwhelming amount of logic for it.

For all those epople saying "Casey Hudson said../Ray Muzyka said"...they really never said ANTYHING IN PARTICULAR. Just:

" There is confusion. We did not mean for there to be confusion. We hear your opinions. We will clear it up."

In NO WAY WHATSOEVER does this contradict IT. Sorry. I am absolutely reading your arguments to me and am responding in kind. Nothing presented so far has any real sort of weight. Even that "irritated Bioware coder" link.

[DangerDavidson]

Tov01 wrote...

No, I don't believe it is obvious, and I take offense at your condescending attitude.

I don't like the ending any more than you do, but I don't feel like the Indoctrination idea makes it any better.

Only meant to be condescending at the people taking their frustration too far, (petitioning FTC, creating Charities ...lol)

Modifié par DangerDavidson, 25 mars 2012 - 10:37 .

[GBGriffin]

I can't believe how the boards have actually gotten worse with these threads over the past few days.

It's a fan-made speculative theory at best. It hasn't been confirmed, hence it's a theory. Prove it all you want, only BioWare can eventually confirm or deny it (imo, it's been denied, yet it seems to have gained a truly religious following). Until then, I fail to see how it is anything beyond speculation and, to an extent, fan fiction. There are also so many variations of it (yep, multiple indoctrination theories) that people support using confirmation bias. That's how IT works: confirmation bias.

I don't see why people can't wait until April and calm down with attacking each other over this stuff.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 25 mars 2012 - 10:34 .

[DangerDavidson]

GBGriffin wrote...

I can't believe how the boards have actually gotten worse with these threads over the past few days.

It's a fan-made speculative theory at best. It hasn't been confirmed, hence it's a theory. Prove it all you want, only BioWare can eventually confirm or deny it (imo, it's been denied, yet it seems to have gained a truly religious following). Until then, I fail to see how it is anything beyond speculation and, to an extent, fan fiction. There are also so many variations of it (yep, multiple indoctrination theories) that people support using confirmation bias. That's how IT works: confirmation bias.

I don't see why people can't wait until April and calm down with attacking each other over this stuff.

There are not multiple versions that I am aware of...... Also I am not attacking people with differing opinions. I am attacking their propensity to let those opinions get out of hand.

If everyone KNEW that IT was what was happening theyd be less "omgwtfbbq" and more "OHHHH JESUS,,yeah OK, now give me the ending....."

Modifié par DangerDavidson, 25 mars 2012 - 10:38 .

[BDelacroix]

Repeating something enough times does not make it so.

[sorentoft]

Pepitobenito wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

It's a theory because it has no proof.

Just mountains of evidence.  Like evolution; also a theory, but widely accepted by most rational people.

It is entirely up to the rationale of the individual to agree with this theory or not. Fact is, however, that it is a theory.

[sedrikhcain]

I truly love the indoctrination theory phenomenon. The ending is so bad that a large proportion of fans has simply rejected it out of hand and made up their own story.

Beautiful.

[Rip504]

DangerDavidson wrote...

In NO WAY WHATSOEVER does this contradict IT. Sorry. I am absolutely reading your arguments to me and am responding in kind. Nothing presented so far has any real sort of weight. Even that "irritated Bioware coder" link.

They are just trying to help you. You know you really shouldn't get your hopes up to high. Assume first that the indoctrination theory will not end up being true. Then secondly assume the indoctrination theory kicks a** and fully support it. Be prepared,as obviously it's not as clear cut as you originally made it seem.

We understand the endings suck. It's better to be safe then sorry. You should always be prepared to be let down by EA,and other random ppl. It's life. Selfish ppl and companies will always put themselves first. Look at the business aspect of the NFL. It's not the love of the game nor skill that matters. No it is about winning and making money. Perhaps how long and how much can they get out of this player,while paying that the cheapest price available.
The NFL Owner is not only creating a winning team,but is also making as much as he can.(No female NFL owners.)

Life is awesome. Personal Less then happy issues have arisen in my life recently. EA/Bioware also shat on me,and then the NFL decided to take it one more step. (Saints Fan) Thanks life,for helping me stay positive throughout all of this.

Modifié par Rip504, 25 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[Gaddmeister]

DangerDavidson wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

I can't believe how the boards have actually gotten worse with these threads over the past few days.

It's a fan-made speculative theory at best. It hasn't been confirmed, hence it's a theory. Prove it all you want, only BioWare can eventually confirm or deny it (imo, it's been denied, yet it seems to have gained a truly religious following). Until then, I fail to see how it is anything beyond speculation and, to an extent, fan fiction. There are also so many variations of it (yep, multiple indoctrination theories) that people support using confirmation bias. That's how IT works: confirmation bias.

I don't see why people can't wait until April and calm down with attacking each other over this stuff.

There are not multiple versions that I am aware of...... Also I am not attacking people with differing opinions. I am attacking their propensity to let those opinions get out of hand.

If everyone KNEW that IT was what was happening theyd be less "omgwtfbbq" and more "OHHHH JESUS,,yeah OK, now give me the ending....."

Who's letting what get out of hand here, really? You're claiming the IT to be absolute truth, without question. Yet, there is no confirmation from Bioware.

[DangerDavidson]

Gaddmeister wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

I can't believe how the boards have actually gotten worse with these threads over the past few days.

It's a fan-made speculative theory at best. It hasn't been confirmed, hence it's a theory. Prove it all you want, only BioWare can eventually confirm or deny it (imo, it's been denied, yet it seems to have gained a truly religious following). Until then, I fail to see how it is anything beyond speculation and, to an extent, fan fiction. There are also so many variations of it (yep, multiple indoctrination theories) that people support using confirmation bias. That's how IT works: confirmation bias.

I don't see why people can't wait until April and calm down with attacking each other over this stuff.

There are not multiple versions that I am aware of...... Also I am not attacking people with differing opinions. I am attacking their propensity to let those opinions get out of hand.

If everyone KNEW that IT was what was happening theyd be less "omgwtfbbq" and more "OHHHH JESUS,,yeah OK, now give me the ending....."

Who's letting what get out of hand here, really? You're claiming the IT to be absolute truth, without question. Yet, there is no confirmation from Bioware.

I am not petitioning BioWare to change their game. I am not creating charities or contacting the FTC to enforce the point that the game sucks. I am not verbally attacking BioWare staff.

I am presenting the most logical conclusion out of this debacle that I'm sure a non-zero, fairly large percentage of the fan base agrees with.

Modifié par DangerDavidson, 25 mars 2012 - 10:51 .

[DangerDavidson]

Just to clarify, I completely understand that the only REAL confirmation of any of this is, in fact, the April DLC.

I've stated again and again that the entire point of my ramblings is to show people that maybe all is not as it seems and that they should relax and see what happens.

[xsdob]

A theory stops being a theory only when indisputable evidence is discovered that proves the theory right. If evolution and relativity are still considered theories, and there evidence is already overwhelming, than no, the fannon has not crossed over into cannon yet, be patient, and just wait and see like everyone else.

[Redemmie]

sorentoft wrote...

It's a theory because it has no proof.

Actually a theory without proof is just a personal belief.  A theory is supposed to have proof to support it, otherwise its just a person's opinion.  Science rant over.

Its interesting that people are putting so much energy into explaining a work of fiction.  Bioware can create a new ending that further supports the endings given at the start or something totally different.  All this about indoctrination is just fanfic. 

[GBGriffin]

Gaddmeister wrote...

Who's letting what get out of hand here, really? You're claiming the IT to be absolute truth, without question. Yet, there is no confirmation from Bioware.

Both sides are out of control at this point; it's why I left the board for a few days and, now, plan to do so again.

When I left it was "Here his why the IT is true, prove me wrong" or "You're all idiots for believing in the IT", over and over, but it seems that, while BioWare has said April and minds grow idle, all that's left on these boards to do is speculate, and it is truly turning into a "my religious beliefs vs yours" issue.

Yes, religious. IT reeks of creationism, sad to say. According to creationists, evidence exists for that as well, but it's primarily faith-based...as is the IT.

"But wait, you volus contrarian!" you might argue. "I have proof!"

What you have are incidents in the game warped to fit a fan-made theory. They may have been leading somewhere, and maybe they were considered for use before the indoctrination mechanic was scrapped according to Final Hours. Without an official yes or no, though, it's all speculation. All of it.

If people want to believe in this, I have no issue with it! None! If it gets you holding the line until April, fine by me. It is beyond stupid, though, to claim that it is the ONLY truth, that the edning can ONLY be indoctrination, and to say that anything over than IT will be a letdown.

I take issue with the people who are overly confrontational about this on both sides..even when they think they are being fair. Threads like this, claiming that it *must* be true and not a theory basically do just that; they dismiss any alternative (I dunno how far the OP has come during the course of this thread, but I'm addressing the OP at this point).

Idle minds bickering and fighting with other idle minds over whose speculation is fact. That's what the BSN has become.

[Gaddmeister]

DangerDavidson wrote...

Gaddmeister wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

I can't believe how the boards have actually gotten worse with these threads over the past few days.

It's a fan-made speculative theory at best. It hasn't been confirmed, hence it's a theory. Prove it all you want, only BioWare can eventually confirm or deny it (imo, it's been denied, yet it seems to have gained a truly religious following). Until then, I fail to see how it is anything beyond speculation and, to an extent, fan fiction. There are also so many variations of it (yep, multiple indoctrination theories) that people support using confirmation bias. That's how IT works: confirmation bias.

I don't see why people can't wait until April and calm down with attacking each other over this stuff.

There are not multiple versions that I am aware of...... Also I am not attacking people with differing opinions. I am attacking their propensity to let those opinions get out of hand.

If everyone KNEW that IT was what was happening theyd be less "omgwtfbbq" and more "OHHHH JESUS,,yeah OK, now give me the ending....."

Who's letting what get out of hand here, really? You're claiming the IT to be absolute truth, without question. Yet, there is no confirmation from Bioware.

I am not petitioning BioWare to change their game. I am not creating charities or contacting the FTC to enforce the point that the game sucks. I am not verbally attacking BioWare staff.

I am presenting the most logical conclusion out of this debacle that I'm sure a non-zero, fairly large percentage of the fan base agrees with.

I'm not demanding that Bioware change their game either, or doing any of the other stuff. But that's beside the point. The point you're making in the topic is "admit it, It's not really a theory anymore is it.", implying that there is no doubt that the IT is true. That statement is false. There is no confirmation that the IT is true. I for one holds the much simpler explanation that the writing was messed up as a more likely explanation. We'll see who's correct in time, but there is no proof that the IT is correct. You can understand that, right?

[GBGriffin]

Gaddmeister wrote...
 We'll see who's correct in time, but there is no proof that the IT is correct. You can understand that, right?

inb4 people spam link you the various YouTube "proof" videos >_<

[DangerDavidson]

Gaddmeister wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

Gaddmeister wrote...

DangerDavidson wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

I can't believe how the boards have actually gotten worse with these threads over the past few days.

It's a fan-made speculative theory at best. It hasn't been confirmed, hence it's a theory. Prove it all you want, only BioWare can eventually confirm or deny it (imo, it's been denied, yet it seems to have gained a truly religious following). Until then, I fail to see how it is anything beyond speculation and, to an extent, fan fiction. There are also so many variations of it (yep, multiple indoctrination theories) that people support using confirmation bias. That's how IT works: confirmation bias.

I don't see why people can't wait until April and calm down with attacking each other over this stuff.

There are not multiple versions that I am aware of...... Also I am not attacking people with differing opinions. I am attacking their propensity to let those opinions get out of hand.

If everyone KNEW that IT was what was happening theyd be less "omgwtfbbq" and more "OHHHH JESUS,,yeah OK, now give me the ending....."

Who's letting what get out of hand here, really? You're claiming the IT to be absolute truth, without question. Yet, there is no confirmation from Bioware.

I am not petitioning BioWare to change their game. I am not creating charities or contacting the FTC to enforce the point that the game sucks. I am not verbally attacking BioWare staff.

I am presenting the most logical conclusion out of this debacle that I'm sure a non-zero, fairly large percentage of the fan base agrees with.

I'm not demanding that Bioware change their game either, or doing any of the other stuff. But that's beside the point. The point you're making in the topic is "admit it, It's not really a theory anymore is it.", implying that there is no doubt that the IT is true. That statement is false. There is no confirmation that the IT is true. I for one holds the much simpler explanation that the writing was messed up as a more likely explanation. We'll see who's correct in time, but there is no proof that the IT is correct. You can understand that, right?

Well, while there is no rigorous proof, I'd say its a near certainty at this point. 

This argument is in the realm of "well, we can't really explain fluid dynamics", vs  "we have solutions to ~100 sets of NS-equations but we can't prove existance and smoothness in the general case".

Modifié par DangerDavidson, 25 mars 2012 - 11:04 .