74 réponses à ce sujet

[Bad King]

MaYtriX wrote...

 Like saving david archer, you see him at grissom academy. 
Saving Samara, you see her later on, but not morinth.
Curing the genophage, you eventually get slarian support.
Saving maelon's data, you use it to save eve.
Destroying the geth heretics, you can untie the Quarians and Geth together later on.

1. Agreed, renegades should have gotten some sort of intel from leaving David at Overlord.
2. Again, I agree, BioWare's treatment of Morinth was very disappointing.
3. You get some salarian support if you save their councillor, but if you sabotage it you get an additional salarian fleet on top of that, so you do get a small reward for being renegade.
4. Eve dying can be seen as a good thing from certain points of view- should she die on top of Wrex dying in ME1 you can convince Mordin not to cure the genophage and avoid having to kill him.
5. Afaik, destroying the heretics leads to less quarian cassualties in their battle against the geth should you decide to side with them/make peace.

[Rip504]

...
Paragons rule.

[MaYtriX]

But renegades should be rewarded more :x

[Yearlongjester]

Part of it is a mix up in my opinion. For example, saving Maelon's data is the practical decision, while destroying it is more or less the 'idealistic" approach. Granted that can be argued back and forth but to me that falls more under the umbrella of "Renegade" rather than paragon.

[Bad King]

Trentgamer wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Actually, the only way to get the Salarian's support is to kill Wrex on Virmire and lie to the Krogan, both of which are Renegade options.

Not true. I saved Wrex, and told the Krogan the truth, and cured the Genophage.  At first the Salarian Daltrass was really pissed and refused the Salarian support. But something happens later and you gain the Salarian support anyway.

No, you gain 1 salarian fleet for saving the salarian councillor from Kai Leng and another for preventing the genophage from being cured. So a paragon would only get 1 salarian fleet while a renegade can get 2 salarian fleets.

Modifié par Bad King, 25 mars 2012 - 10:24 .

[thepimpto]

Bad King wrote...

MaYtriX wrote...

 Like saving david archer, you see him at grissom academy. 
Saving Samara, you see her later on, but not morinth.
Curing the genophage, you eventually get slarian support.
Saving maelon's data, you use it to save eve.
Destroying the geth heretics, you can untie the Quarians and Geth together later on.

1. Agreed, renegades should have gotten some sort of intel from leaving David at Overlord.
2. Again, I agree, BioWare's treatment of Morinth was very disappointing.
3. You get some salarian support if you save their councillor, but if you sabotage it you get an additional salarian fleet on top of that, so you do get a small reward for being renegade.
4. Eve dying can be seen as a good thing from certain points of view- should she die on top of Wrex dying in ME1 you can convince Mordin not to cure the genophage and avoid having to kill him.
5. Afaik, destroying the heretics leads to less quarian cassualties in their battle against the geth should you decide to side with them/make peace.

1. Speaking with Archer on the Jacob cameo mission does give you war assests for the study. And also not having David at Grisso Academy let's you destroy the kids' barrier which also gives you a war asset.

[Bad King]

thepimpto wrote...

Bad King wrote...

MaYtriX wrote...

 Like saving david archer, you see him at grissom academy. 
Saving Samara, you see her later on, but not morinth.
Curing the genophage, you eventually get slarian support.
Saving maelon's data, you use it to save eve.
Destroying the geth heretics, you can untie the Quarians and Geth together later on.

1. Agreed, renegades should have gotten some sort of intel from leaving David at Overlord.
2. Again, I agree, BioWare's treatment of Morinth was very disappointing.
3. You get some salarian support if you save their councillor, but if you sabotage it you get an additional salarian fleet on top of that, so you do get a small reward for being renegade.
4. Eve dying can be seen as a good thing from certain points of view- should she die on top of Wrex dying in ME1 you can convince Mordin not to cure the genophage and avoid having to kill him.
5. Afaik, destroying the heretics leads to less quarian cassualties in their battle against the geth should you decide to side with them/make peace.

1. Speaking with Archer on the Jacob cameo mission does give you war assests for the study. And also not having David at Grisso Academy let's you destroy the kids' barrier which also gives you a war asset.

The data that Archer sends you on Jacob's mission didn't seem to net me anything in my game.

[Nizzemancer]

Zix13 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I agree. Renegades are supposed to be to practical ones. Willing to sacrifice, but not willing to lose 20 men to save 1. Renegades should come out ahead of paragons for that reason.

Yeah because being a d*** to everyone you meet is a good way to make people want to help you.

Never had to negotiate with your cell provider I see....
Yea, being a renegade is about trading favors, not giving one then asking for another later. That's how a renegade gets help as opposed to a paragon.

I make maybe 8-10 1 minute calls a month, I'm paying way more than what I'm getting regardless of what deal I choose anyway so I couldn't care less.

Trading favors...yeah or just being a jerk who for example punches people in the face for asking a question...

do all the renegade options you want and lie to yourself, I don't care, but trying to rationalize the renegades behavior as anything other than psychotic is just ridiculous.

[Zix13]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I agree. Renegades are supposed to be to practical ones. Willing to sacrifice, but not willing to lose 20 men to save 1. Renegades should come out ahead of paragons for that reason.

Yeah because being a d*** to everyone you meet is a good way to make people want to help you.

Never had to negotiate with your cell provider I see....
Yea, being a renegade is about trading favors, not giving one then asking for another later. That's how a renegade gets help as opposed to a paragon.

I make maybe 8-10 1 minute calls a month, I'm paying way more than what I'm getting regardless of what deal I choose anyway so I couldn't care less.

Trading favors...yeah or just being a jerk who for example punches people in the face for asking a question...

do all the renegade options you want and lie to yourself, I don't care, but trying to rationalize the renegades behavior as anything other than psychotic is just ridiculous.

Yes there are some phycotic renegade options in me3, like letting samara kill herself then shooting her daughter. Doesn't mean you have to pick them to be renegade. And no one likes pushy reporters.... A volus kicked that **** in the shins, a krogan decked her. Was lolz. Paragon's get shot at then do everything but buy the person who did it coffee. THAT is not rational. Playing straight renegade (bottom right spam) or paragon(top right spam) is stupid. Some of the options are ridiculous. But you can solve every conflict the renegade way. 

Modifié par Zix13, 25 mars 2012 - 10:32 .

[Bad King]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I agree. Renegades are supposed to be to practical ones. Willing to sacrifice, but not willing to lose 20 men to save 1. Renegades should come out ahead of paragons for that reason.

Yeah because being a d*** to everyone you meet is a good way to make people want to help you.

Never had to negotiate with your cell provider I see....
Yea, being a renegade is about trading favors, not giving one then asking for another later. That's how a renegade gets help as opposed to a paragon.

I make maybe 8-10 1 minute calls a month, I'm paying way more than what I'm getting regardless of what deal I choose anyway so I couldn't care less.

Trading favors...yeah or just being a jerk who for example punches people in the face for asking a question...

do all the renegade options you want and lie to yourself, I don't care, but trying to rationalize the renegades behavior as anything other than psychotic is just ridiculous.

The renegade makes many hard decisions for the good of the galaxy like killing the rachni queen and preventing the genophage from being cured. You can't call that psychotic.

Modifié par Bad King, 25 mars 2012 - 10:32 .

[Orthodox Infidel]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...
This is made up for by being able to save the old Salarian councilor and getting the Destiny Ascension. The total, if you save the old councilor, is +25 in favor of saving the Council.

Never crunched the numbes, but I had a feeling the Derstiny Ascension would weigh in heavily.  I was really bummed we never got to see it shoot that cannon, even once.  I bet it would have made LOVELY explosions.

Yeah. Ever since someone on the Normandy said LOOK AT THE GIANT GUN ON THAT THING I was expecting to see it blow something up. But, nope, it never fires.

[Rip504]

MaYtriX wrote...

But renegades should be rewarded more :x

I disagree. I feel just fine with the way most of the choices and outcomes play out throughout ME1-3.

So this is nothing more then a personal preference and opinion?

Modifié par Rip504, 25 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[Nizzemancer]

Bad King wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I agree. Renegades are supposed to be to practical ones. Willing to sacrifice, but not willing to lose 20 men to save 1. Renegades should come out ahead of paragons for that reason.

Yeah because being a d*** to everyone you meet is a good way to make people want to help you.

Never had to negotiate with your cell provider I see....
Yea, being a renegade is about trading favors, not giving one then asking for another later. That's how a renegade gets help as opposed to a paragon.

I make maybe 8-10 1 minute calls a month, I'm paying way more than what I'm getting regardless of what deal I choose anyway so I couldn't care less.

Trading favors...yeah or just being a jerk who for example punches people in the face for asking a question...

do all the renegade options you want and lie to yourself, I don't care, but trying to rationalize the renegades behavior as anything other than psychotic is just ridiculous.

The renegade makes many hard decisions for the good of the galaxy like killing the rachni queen and preventing the genophage from being cured. You can't call that psychotic.

You're right, double genocide isn't psychotic at all.

[Zix13]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I agree. Renegades are supposed to be to practical ones. Willing to sacrifice, but not willing to lose 20 men to save 1. Renegades should come out ahead of paragons for that reason.

Yeah because being a d*** to everyone you meet is a good way to make people want to help you.

Never had to negotiate with your cell provider I see....
Yea, being a renegade is about trading favors, not giving one then asking for another later. That's how a renegade gets help as opposed to a paragon.

I make maybe 8-10 1 minute calls a month, I'm paying way more than what I'm getting regardless of what deal I choose anyway so I couldn't care less.

Trading favors...yeah or just being a jerk who for example punches people in the face for asking a question...

do all the renegade options you want and lie to yourself, I don't care, but trying to rationalize the renegades behavior as anything other than psychotic is just ridiculous.

The renegade makes many hard decisions for the good of the galaxy like killing the rachni queen and preventing the genophage from being cured. You can't call that psychotic.

You're right, double genocide isn't psychotic at all.

Yes, because neither of those races tried to exterminate all galactic life.

[AxisEvolve]

It's realistic if anything. The occasional kindness will serve you well. Being a self important jerk to everyone you encounter doesn't always help, especially in a game with strong themes of unity and teamwork.

[Nizzemancer]

Zix13 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I agree. Renegades are supposed to be to practical ones. Willing to sacrifice, but not willing to lose 20 men to save 1. Renegades should come out ahead of paragons for that reason.

Yeah because being a d*** to everyone you meet is a good way to make people want to help you.

Never had to negotiate with your cell provider I see....
Yea, being a renegade is about trading favors, not giving one then asking for another later. That's how a renegade gets help as opposed to a paragon.

I make maybe 8-10 1 minute calls a month, I'm paying way more than what I'm getting regardless of what deal I choose anyway so I couldn't care less.

Trading favors...yeah or just being a jerk who for example punches people in the face for asking a question...

do all the renegade options you want and lie to yourself, I don't care, but trying to rationalize the renegades behavior as anything other than psychotic is just ridiculous.

The renegade makes many hard decisions for the good of the galaxy like killing the rachni queen and preventing the genophage from being cured. You can't call that psychotic.

You're right, double genocide isn't psychotic at all.

Yes, because neither of those races tried to exterminate all galactic life.

That's about as dumb as saying "All germans are just like Hitler"...

Edit: 
Goodwins law - invoked

Modifié par Nizzemancer, 27 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[elaf000]

Since everyone dies in the end with no hope I think there are no differences, maybe being renegade put them out of there misery so not to see the poor ending. lol

[Computron2000]

I think its more like being a dick can net you short term advantages but cost you in the long term

[Stinkface27]

I've always played what I consider "smart" renegade - ruthless, but not just an a**hole for no good reason. My Shepard makes the tough calls nobody else can.

But it was impossible to play this way in Mass Effect 3. The Renegade options were just stupid. You gained nothing from them. Even if you consider letting a friend or ally die, you have nothing to show for it. There's no "tough" calls, only jerk calls.

Not saying it was that way across the board, but it was a recurring theme.

[ardias89]

Because paragon is awesome!

[Computron2000]

Stinkface27 wrote...
Not saying it was that way across the board, but it was a recurring theme.

But you've gotta admit that Mordin's renegade "shoot him in the back for the greater good" was a great moment. Especially when they made Shepard throw the gun away in disgust after that

[Nu-Nu]

If it's an evil decision behind the renegade, it should punish you, like killing the Queen and Wrex. As for the collector's base, you should be punished for just being stupid enough for trusting TIM, I never trusted him, can't believe people did. Should have been a more notciable difference with that last one though.

I did like that some renegade options in ME3 were more justifiable though, like the renegade interupt on the Admiral/Dalatrass/Kai Leng and Udina.

[Stinkface27]

Computron2000 wrote...

Stinkface27 wrote...
Not saying it was that way across the board, but it was a recurring theme.

But you've gotta admit that Mordin's renegade "shoot him in the back for the greater good" was a great moment. Especially when they made Shepard throw the gun away in disgust after that

Ooh I'm not saying the Renegade options weren't well scripted/acted/executed - just high occurences of "WHY WOULD I DO THAT??" 

ie: Violently murdering Legion...this gains nothing!

Just my opinion anyway :innocent:

[Monochrome Wench]

I ended up with more renegade than paragon after finishing ME3 and I didn't do anything 'evil'. Sure I punched people, called them out on their stupid actions and generally wasn't *nice*, but I wasn't just renegade for renegades sake. This is probably the first game in the series that taking the middle road actually works well as far as I am concerned.

[Ishiken]

I don't understand where people get this idea that Samara was going to kill a Renegade Shepard. Samara states that she would kill Shepard if he forced her to do anything seriously immoral and wrong. Samara also states she would willingly sacrifice every asari who worships the justicars if it means rooting out corruption. That statement alone tells me that she's not a Paragon. None of Shepard's renegade choices are completely immoral. All of your Renegade options is there to further your campaign against the collectors and reapers, and none of them was done just to kill people for fun.

There are plenty of instances where playing Renegade is needed. A Paragon condemns Maelon's research and states that the data should be destroyed since it came from a vile source. Even in ME3 Paragon conversation choices still condemns Maelon's data, but if you didn't save the data then Eve dies and you suffer -50 Krogan assets since Eve isn't there to keep the peace. If you were a Renegade and you killed Wrex in Mass Effect 1, then Wreav is in power and you can actually dupe the Krogan into believing that you have cured the genophage and gain both Salarian and Krogan support which is an extra +150 or +200 assets. If you saved Wrex, then you have to choose either curing the genophage or sabotaging the genophage. If you were practical and saved the Collector Base, then you gain an extra +10 war assets compared to destroying the base. You could be a Renegade and not accept Dr. Chakwas or Ashley/Kaidan back on the Normandy and you gain War Assets compared to the Paragon choice of accepting both of them back into your squad. If you supported Xen over Tali in the conversation, you would actually gain +45 war assets for the Crucible compared to +0 for trying to save the life pods. If you were Paragon, then you would have saved Zaal'Koris's crew and that would actually net you a -100 to assets while saving Zaal Koris nets you a +100 to assets.