243 réponses à ce sujet

[JulienJaden]

Dridengx wrote...

Jeno_340 wrote...

 Then pro-ending fans have to be the smallest sliver of the pie. If you know anything about sampling, you would probably believe that most consumers are not very fond of the ending. I don't know how many "hated" it but there sure as heck aren't  that many people that like it as much as the ending of 1 and 2. I can count about 10 friends/acquaintances off the top of my head that didn't use a single positive word to describe the ending and only 2 even plan on playing through it again.

Plus, the facts that the price has dropped to $40 in less than two weeks and that Amazon and Origin are offering full refunds are clear indicators that this game is not being recieved well by many consumers.

Reviewers are split on the endings but they can't give a game a low score just based on the ending. Overall, I agree with all of them that Mass Effect 3 is overall an excellent game. It is just ruined by the ending.

Tl;dr An example of a vocal minority would be those that thought that ME2 was a huge downgrade from ME1. Even then, Bioware appeased them by adding a lot more RPG elements to ME3.

Bioware, I guarantee that most people would prefer an Indoctrination ending over clarification of what we currently have. Do it or suffer revenue loss in the future.

Actually we do know how many hated it, 52,000. that isn't very many lol. that's right you don't know anything especially how many liked it but you can't claim people who liked it are smaller than 52k lol.

Your 10 'friends' if they even exist don't mean anything. Amazon and origin always offer refunds. Price drops always happen as well. reviewers are split? hmm 70 plus perfect scores. you can guarantee all you want you don't know anything and there is no proof your little minority out cry will do a damn thing to Bioware sales.

All the crap you are saying was the same crap people like you said about Dragon Age 2. And not only did it sell good, the dlc was decent, and the ending never changed, AND Bioware still made a lot of money on ME3. likewise will again after ME3. History is against you as is logic. research before you make dumb threads atleast

You know, I think I could try explaining to you how statistics work and how representative surveys are created, but your post suggests that I would be wasting my time.

If you find this insulting because it seems like I'm being condescending, that may be because I find it hard to contain myself when somebody is being insulting and stupid to begin with.
(I'm sorry, I said I wouldn't bother answering to people like that again but it pisses me off that they think not talking back means agreeing, so I'll indulge them.)

[MattFini]

B-but, there is people on teh Twitters who like it.

That counts, right? RIGHT?

[IGSR]

I think we can all agree that 'anti-enders' are at the very least a minority of the total player base.  They're also vocal.

[Quietness]

Im going to use the same logic that i keep hearing about us..

https://www.facebook...44005192318904/ Pro-Ending 663 members (went down by 3 from earlier today). So by the logic constantly being presented to us another 2 million and change fans dont like the ending o.O

[blehblah123]

JulienJaden wrote...


You know, I think I could try explaining to you how statistics work and how representative surveys are created, but your post suggests that I would be wasting my time.

If you find this insulting because it seems like I'm being condescending, that may be because I find it hard to contain myself when somebody is being insulting and stupid to begin with.
(I'm sorry, I said I wouldn't bother answering to people like that again but it pisses me off that they think not talking back means agreeing, so I'll indulge them.)

I feel for you..it's really sad how few people understand basic math and statistics.  This might make you feel worse but...Michael Pachter doesn't understand stats either..and he's a securities analyst.  I obviously would never endorse him or his firm to anybody.

[chkchkchk]

Just measure the RAGE vs. the BLISS.

Look at all the anti-ending fanart, memes, jokes, youtube videos. Look at all the anti-ending forums posts and blog comments. When you look at the most passionate fans, most are anti-ending.

Were are the people who love the ending? Did they love the ending so much they decided to not talk about it? I know people who liked the ending, but they liked the ending less than I hated it. And when it comes to art, you need to take into consideration the strongest reactions from the audience.

[JohnLena]

Even if the Retake movement people are the "minority", with this much backlash there is a problem, no denying that. So something has to be done to please everybody.

[blehblah123]

I really recommend people read this thread:
http://social.biowar...ndex/10625131/1

It basically puts a dollar amount on how damaging the "vocal minority" has been.

[majormajormmajor]

Pro-enders can't argue with hard numbers so they attempt to claim the 2 million are with them

[Archereon]

Alright, while I'm not a fan of the endings, I'm afraid the OP is completely wrong about sampling.

While a 52k sample out of a consumer base of 2.5 million would be sufficiently large for a scientific survey, an internet poll cannot be considered empirical data unless it is very carefully constructed, for a number of reasons.

Firstly, BSN allows a person to vote once per account per day and people can always create new accounts with a small amount of effort, so that immediately invalidates the BSN poll, and discredits all the other polls and petitions on sites that a person could conceivably make multiple accounts to vote with.

Secondly, and most damningly, the fact that this poll is, by its very nature, opt-in removes the possibility of random sampling, and opens up the door for a great deal of selection bias. Normally, it's possible to acquire empirical statistics on a population that cannot be subject to random selection (smokers, or other people undergoing risky behaviors), but this isn't such a case, as the valid sources of data are largely "petitions" which do not accommodate alternative viewpoints.

So no, these are not "hard numbers", and would have to be thrown out completely in any serious study. That said, there's even less evidence that overall population of ME3 players enjoyed the ending, to my knowledge every single poll on the topic has been negative, overwhelmingly so in certain cases.

Modifié par Archereon, 26 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[Coachdongwiffle]

Dridengx wrote...

Jeno_340 wrote...

 Then pro-ending fans have to be the smallest sliver of the pie. If you know anything about sampling, you would probably believe that most consumers are not very fond of the ending. I don't know how many "hated" it but there sure as heck aren't  that many people that like it as much as the ending of 1 and 2. I can count about 10 friends/acquaintances off the top of my head that didn't use a single positive word to describe the ending and only 2 even plan on playing through it again.

Plus, the facts that the price has dropped to $40 in less than two weeks and that Amazon and Origin are offering full refunds are clear indicators that this game is not being recieved well by many consumers.

Reviewers are split on the endings but they can't give a game a low score just based on the ending. Overall, I agree with all of them that Mass Effect 3 is overall an excellent game. It is just ruined by the ending.

Tl;dr An example of a vocal minority would be those that thought that ME2 was a huge downgrade from ME1. Even then, Bioware appeased them by adding a lot more RPG elements to ME3.

Bioware, I guarantee that most people would prefer an Indoctrination ending over clarification of what we currently have. Do it or suffer revenue loss in the future.

Actually we do know how many hated it, 52,000. that isn't very many lol. that's right you don't know anything especially how many liked it but you can't claim people who liked it are smaller than 52k lol.

Your 10 'friends' if they even exist don't mean anything. Amazon and origin always offer refunds. Price drops always happen as well. reviewers are split? hmm 70 plus perfect scores. you can guarantee all you want you don't know anything and there is no proof your little minority out cry will do a damn thing to Bioware sales.

All the crap you are saying was the same crap people like you said about Dragon Age 2. And not only did it sell good, the dlc was decent, and the ending never changed, AND Bioware still made a lot of money on ME3. likewise will again after ME3. History is against you as is logic. research before you make dumb threads atleast

wait your serious? you really think only 52,000 ppl hated this game. I'd be surprised if the number was anything less than a few million. I love ME and Bioware but defending them just to defend them is stupid.

[Doctoglethorpe]

We're a vocal minority... voicing the thoughts of the dissatisfied overwhelming majority.  Bioware knows that even if they don't admit it publicly.  The media probably doesn't but they're all a bunch of idiots so who cares what they think... except other idiots that gobble what they say as fact so they're lost regardless.  Wait, thats most people?  Well **** it then.  Space magic. 

[Jeno_340]

Archereon wrote...

Alright, while I'm not a fan of the endings, I'm afraid the OP is completely wrong about sampling.

While a 52k sample out of a consumer base of 2.5 million would be sufficiently large for a scientific survey, an internet poll cannot be considered empirical data unless it is very carefully constructed, for a number of reasons.

Firstly, BSN allows a person to vote once per account per day and people can always create new accounts with a small amount of effort, so that immediately invalidates the BSN poll, and discredits all the other polls and petitions on sites that a person could conceivably make multiple accounts to vote with.

Secondly, and most damningly, the fact that this poll is, by its very nature, opt-in removes the possibility of random sampling, and opens up the door for a great deal of selection bias. Normally, it's possible to acquire empirical statistics on a population that cannot be subject to random selection (smokers, or other people undergoing risky behaviors), but this isn't such a case, as the valid sources of data are largely "petitions" which do not accommodate alternative viewpoints.

So no, these are not "hard numbers", and would have to be thrown out completely in any serious study. That said, there's even less evidence that overall population of ME3 players enjoyed the ending, to my knowledge every single poll on the topic has been negative, overwhelmingly so in certain cases.

That is what validates the internet polls. Plus, if we had hard data from Bioware HQ that showed how many people even played campaign at all after beating it, we would probably find that it would be a lot lower than ME1 or 2. But Bioware isn't going to release that data since it isn't positive.

[JELLAQTP]

Where is the vocal majority that loves the ending?

[naes1984]

It doesn't matter if we are vocal minority. Let's say we make up 30% of fans. Bioware (or any company for that matter can't afford to alienate even a substantial minority. Plus, if we are the "hardcore fans" we are more likely to buy extra Mass Effect merchandise such as comics, novels, collector's editions, DLC. It's not like fixing the endings will alienate the alleged majority who liked the endings.

[Saul Iscariot]

ImmovableMover wrote...

MattFini wrote...

^ Yep. Even casual fans I know (a person at work who bought 3, never played the first two) hated the ending.

Ditto, I've yet to meet anyone who has played ME3...harcore or just "Well I like the blue ladies" gamers, who have not either been enraged by the ending, or just plain confused by it.

*Waves hand furiously.*
Hello, over here. I wasn't enraged or confused, I simply had a differing take on what the ending meant.

[Jeno_340]

They might as well have all died

[chcknwng]

JulienJaden wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Jeno_340 wrote...

 Then pro-ending fans have to be the smallest sliver of the pie. If you know anything about sampling, you would probably believe that most consumers are not very fond of the ending. I don't know how many "hated" it but there sure as heck aren't  that many people that like it as much as the ending of 1 and 2. I can count about 10 friends/acquaintances off the top of my head that didn't use a single positive word to describe the ending and only 2 even plan on playing through it again.

Plus, the facts that the price has dropped to $40 in less than two weeks and that Amazon and Origin are offering full refunds are clear indicators that this game is not being recieved well by many consumers.

Reviewers are split on the endings but they can't give a game a low score just based on the ending. Overall, I agree with all of them that Mass Effect 3 is overall an excellent game. It is just ruined by the ending.

Tl;dr An example of a vocal minority would be those that thought that ME2 was a huge downgrade from ME1. Even then, Bioware appeased them by adding a lot more RPG elements to ME3.

Bioware, I guarantee that most people would prefer an Indoctrination ending over clarification of what we currently have. Do it or suffer revenue loss in the future.

Actually we do know how many hated it, 52,000. that isn't very many lol. that's right you don't know anything especially how many liked it but you can't claim people who liked it are smaller than 52k lol.

Your 10 'friends' if they even exist don't mean anything. Amazon and origin always offer refunds. Price drops always happen as well. reviewers are split? hmm 70 plus perfect scores. you can guarantee all you want you don't know anything and there is no proof your little minority out cry will do a damn thing to Bioware sales.

All the crap you are saying was the same crap people like you said about Dragon Age 2. And not only did it sell good, the dlc was decent, and the ending never changed, AND Bioware still made a lot of money on ME3. likewise will again after ME3. History is against you as is logic. research before you make dumb threads atleast

You know, I think I could try explaining to you how statistics work and how representative surveys are created, but your post suggests that I would be wasting my time.

If you find this insulting because it seems like I'm being condescending, that may be because I find it hard to contain myself when somebody is being insulting and stupid to begin with.
(I'm sorry, I said I wouldn't bother answering to people like that again but it pisses me off that they think not talking back means agreeing, so I'll indulge them.)

+1+1+1

I don't think they can understand how statistics works. I would just say that you have to know stat is based on math, and math is based on theory and proof. So many sentences in OP's post is just speculation that it proves nothing. The worst part maybe OP's quote. 

I don't think all the people who said the vocal portion is the minority are defending Bioware. And that includes me. But that would be the conclusion one arrives at using statistics. In reality, I think most people probably didn't like the game, but bear in mind the those who have voiced their dissapointment are a minority.  Since the majority didn't voice their opinions, you could never conclude wthether they liked it or not. The 10 friends who didn't like the game but didn't say anything doesn't really count, because if you add the 10 to the 52k out of the 2 million, it's still nothing. The only way to make it count, is if you get the other more than 1.9M people to say something.

Maybe I sound condescedning, but OP's opinion sounds so much insulting to my years of hardwork and study of maths and stats. The thing I really don't understand is why so many people are arguing against the "vocal minority". One of the things we emphasize in our intro stat class is the invalidity of internet polling and forum opinions.

[Jeno_340]

One thing I learned in sampling is that you don't have to interview the entire population to measure its opinion. Online polls may be unreliable but what I'm trying to say is that nobody can argue that the people who like the ending outnumber those who don't like it.