243 réponses à ce sujet

[BWGungan]

Swisspease wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Lumping the "meh" people with the people who hated it is absurd. I could lump them with the people who liked it.

And if one was to take a proper poll then the "meh" people would be put into their own category. As I said earlier this is not a two party race. The majority might be the "meh" party.

The "Meh" people fall into the need to change it bracket because a "meh" person "meh"ght not buy the next game if this one didn't quite do it for them.

Modifié par BWGungan, 26 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[BWGungan]

ryuasiu wrote...

Actually...check the twitter responses. Majority like it, below that are people that are ok with it, then the minority is people that dont like it.

Cuz twitter shows you everyone's response right?  Not.

[Aesieru]

BWGungan wrote...

ryuasiu wrote...

Actually...check the twitter responses. Majority like it, below that are people that are ok with it, then the minority is people that dont like it.

Cuz twitter shows you everyone's response right?  Not.

Twitter makes it impossible to determine a majority, especially with the deletion of a lot of posts.

It isn't a polling system.

[Madcat 124]

 I have 3 people that I know have actually beaten the game who hate it. No one I know that has beaten it likes it.

[Jeno_340]

ryuasiu wrote...

Actually...check the twitter responses. Majority like it, below that are people that are ok with it, then the minority is people that dont like it.

Was the twitter asking if people liked the overall game in general or just the ending? Because I see an overwhelming amount of people that dislike the ending on twitter. You might have misunderstood that information

[Sawtooth357]

This one does not understand why polls suggesting the first two entries in the treasured Mass Effect universe are wonderful are considered valid, but polls suggesting the reverse for the recent Mass Effect 3 are not valid.

Modifié par Sawtooth357, 26 mars 2012 - 01:18 .

[Vromrig]

Again, the burden of proof is on you. You are making an assumption based on polls where only a minority of people have voted.

I do not have to disprove that someone is the majority, it is up to the person making the claim that they are the majority to prove they are actually the majority, and aren't actually making an assumption that they are the majority based on a poll that only takes in a minority of people that own the game.

Only claim made that data does not support claim that anti-ending represent vocal minority.

Since data supports the claim that data supports this, no further proof required.

Goal not to satisfy you, but intellectual criteria.

Actually...check the twitter responses. Majority like it, below that are people that are ok with it, then the minority is people that dont like it.

Good joke.

[DeadPoolX]

BWGungan wrote...

Swisspease wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Lumping the "meh" people with the people who hated it is absurd. I could lump them with the people who liked it.

And if one was to take a proper poll then the "meh" people would be put into their own category. As I said earlier this is not a two party race. The majority might be the "meh" party.

The "Meh" people fall into the need to change it bracket because a "meh" person "meh"ght not buy the next game if this one didn't quite do it for them.

So... you're okay with deciding for a group and taking away their ability to make a personal choice, eh?  Tell me, how is that any different than what the Retakers claim BioWare did to ME fans in general?

[Carnage752]

I love how on every single poll, even on Biased sites on IGN, the majority of people dislike the ending, but the minority keeps asserting they are the majority even in the face of concrete evidence.

Basic math and population demographics people. The amount of peoplw who answered the polls are BEYOND survey size.

[Swisspease]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

ZiegenkonigIII wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Jeno_340 wrote...

Mixorz wrote...

What is the Facebook at? 75k? Even if the game only sold 200k copies you would still be a minority. And I'm willing to bet many of those likes and poll votes are alt accounts and friends who don't play games but have been told to like the page.

Sorry, you are a minority.

Again, another person who doesn't understand polling and sampling. You need to understand that the majority of people ARE NOT going to go online and take a poll or like a FB page to show if they loved/hated the ending.

The fact that the majority of the people that did participate in this stuff DISLIKED the ending should show a clear indication that the ending was "nothing spectacular". Those who utterly hated it are definitely a minority but those that loved it are an even smaller minority.

People that feel "meh" should count towards the "dislike" crowd. In a AAA game like Mass Effect, the 3rd ending should be just as good or better than the first two.

So combining the "meh" people with those who disliked the ending, and those who utterly hated it....they are clearly the majortiy.

Why is this info important? If the majority don't particularly ENJOY the ending (like they did in ME1 and 2), then there is incentive to change the ending.

That is my whole point. Most people DON"T care for it. You SHOULD change it.

I didn't love or hate the ending, so I don't fit into either category.  I don't want to lumped into the "hate it" crowd any more than I want to belong to the "love it" group. 

No one is lumping you in to either specific crowd.  The polling rules take into account neutral parties.

Not according to some people, who seem to think that unless I actively like the endings, I must be siding with the retaker crowd. 

Want to know how I feel about the ending?  Here: I don't care. 

I'm content with the ending.  If it gets changed or new endings are added, fine, but it doesn't make a difference to me if they suddenly give us 100 new endings or tell everyone on the BSN to "STFU." 

Needless to say, this is why I refuse to be lumped into either category.  In fact, by suggesting that I (and others like me) take a side or be automatically given one, you are taking away our freedom to choose.  Isn't that what the Retake movement is supposedly about?  How the endings didn't give enough choice and take into account our decisions?

So don't be hypocritical.  Let those who simply don't care (like me) remain in our group, if even such a group is necessary. 

Oh and someone mentioned earlier that needing 51% for a majority is ridiculous because several presidents have won without the popular vote.  To whoever said that, I must reply: you don't know how the US selects presidents.  It's never awarded the presidency based on popular vote alone.  The Electoral College is how the president is chosen.

Some people think the Electoral College is useless, outdated or simply ineffective.  That's fine, but doesn't change my point.  Popular vote does not select presidents.

I know how the Electoral College works. You miss the point which was to say that you don't need 51% to be a majority. That this is more than just black and white, there are several shades of grey.

And btw if you had read my other posts you'd have seen I was one of the few defending those who didn't care, like yourself.

[Clayless]

Vromrig wrote...

Again, the burden of proof is on you. You are making an assumption based on polls where only a minority of people have voted.

I do not have to disprove that someone is the majority, it is up to the person making the claim that they are the majority to prove they are actually the majority, and aren't actually making an assumption that they are the majority based on a poll that only takes in a minority of people that own the game.

Only claim made that data does not support claim that anti-ending represent vocal minority.

Since data supports the claim that data supports this, no further proof required.

Goal not to satisfy you, but intellectual criteria.

Actually...check the twitter responses. Majority like it, below that are people that are ok with it, then the minority is people that dont like it.

Good joke.

Wrong, the data shows that a majority of people that voted (the minority) hated the ending, not that the majority hates the ending.

Stop, and I think you're doing this deliberately, trying to muddle up "the haters are the minority" with "there is no proof the haters are the majority".

Now, again, show me proof that the haters are the majority, not assumptions that the haters are the majority based on minority polls.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 26 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[DeadPoolX]

Carnage752 wrote...

I love how on every single poll, even on Biased sites on IGN, the majority of people dislike the ending, but the minority keeps asserting they are the majority even in the face of concrete evidence.

Basic math and population demographics people. The amount of peoplw who answered the polls are BEYOND survey size.

You're assuming everyone in the entire world who's played ME3 partakes in each and every website's poll and votes.

[BWGungan]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Swisspease wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Lumping the "meh" people with the people who hated it is absurd. I could lump them with the people who liked it.

And if one was to take a proper poll then the "meh" people would be put into their own category. As I said earlier this is not a two party race. The majority might be the "meh" party.

The "Meh" people fall into the need to change it bracket because a "meh" person "meh"ght not buy the next game if this one didn't quite do it for them.

So... you're okay with deciding for a group and taking away their ability to make a personal choice, eh?  Tell me, how is that any different than what the Retakers claim BioWare did to ME fans in general?

You have no idea how ironic that statement is re: ending choice... however if you discount all the "Meh" people altogether then I think you have an even smaller minority than you realize.  "Meh" people don't care what happens, to this game, or BioWare, or their next game.  Apathy does not automatically put them in the pro-ending camp, or either camp for that matter, but logically if they're not fully satisfied then they may not go for the next product because their last experience wasn't memorable.  They have no opinion that matters either way.

The people who care enough to vote are the ones that matter whether they vote one way or the other.

Modifié par BWGungan, 26 mars 2012 - 01:30 .

[dallicant]

The majority probably consists of those who didn't feel too strongly about the ending one way or another. Because the ending is so bad, I suspect many would have found it dissatisfying, but were not heavily invested in the series, and were thus not really bothered.

Of those who are invested, the vast majority seem to detest the ending with seething fury.

[jvara]

Dridengx wrote...

Jeno_340 wrote...

 Then pro-ending fans have to be the smallest sliver of the pie. If you know anything about sampling, you would probably believe that most consumers are not very fond of the ending. I don't know how many "hated" it but there sure as heck aren't  that many people that like it as much as the ending of 1 and 2. I can count about 10 friends/acquaintances off the top of my head that didn't use a single positive word to describe the ending and only 2 even plan on playing through it again.

Plus, the facts that the price has dropped to $40 in less than two weeks and that Amazon and Origin are offering full refunds are clear indicators that this game is not being recieved well by many consumers.

Reviewers are split on the endings but they can't give a game a low score just based on the ending. Overall, I agree with all of them that Mass Effect 3 is overall an excellent game. It is just ruined by the ending.

Tl;dr An example of a vocal minority would be those that thought that ME2 was a huge downgrade from ME1. Even then, Bioware appeased them by adding a lot more RPG elements to ME3.

Bioware, I guarantee that most people would prefer an Indoctrination ending over clarification of what we currently have. Do it or suffer revenue loss in the future.

Actually we do know how many hated it, 52,000. that isn't very many lol. that's right you don't know anything especially how many liked it but you can't claim people who liked it are smaller than 52k lol.

Your 10 'friends' if they even exist don't mean anything. Amazon and origin always offer refunds. Price drops always happen as well. reviewers are split? hmm 70 plus perfect scores. you can guarantee all you want you don't know anything and there is no proof your little minority out cry will do a damn thing to Bioware sales.

All the crap you are saying was the same crap people like you said about Dragon Age 2. And not only did it sell good, the dlc was decent, and the ending never changed, AND Bioware still made a lot of money on ME3. likewise will again after ME3. History is against you as is logic. research before you make dumb threads atleast

That 52k(now 62k) people doesn't prove that there just 52k people who doesn't like it, not unless we are to accept the fact that there are 1436 people who do like it. What it does prove is that 91% of asked people doesn't like the ending, that's how opinion polls are measured, and that's what you take as basis if you can't go asking around 4 million people one by one what their opinion was. It's obvious that this percentage is not accurate at all, but it can be taken as proof that at least a majority of players did not find the endings acceptable. But of course, neither you nor me and nor OP are experts in Market Researching or Surveying (and if you are, then whatever company you're working for have my condolences).

[DeadPoolX]

Swisspease wrote...
I know how the Electoral College works. You miss the point which was to say that you don't need 51% to be a majority. That this is more than just black and white, there are several shades of grey.

Even with a margin of error, you'd still need a greater total percentage of people who dislike it than those who're okat with it to claim "we're a majority."  The problem is we can't get every single ME3 player in the world to vote.  We only have polls available on certain websites and boards, none of which house every player.  Even worse, many communities are polarized toward one side or the other, so the results get further skewed.

Swisspease wrote...And btw if you had read my other posts you'd have seen I was one of the few defending those who didn't care, like yourself.

I was replying to the people who seem to think I must fit into the two groups.  That said, thank you for defending me and those who think like me.  It's always nice to find people who don't believe in a "us vs them" mentality.

[DeadPoolX]

BWGungan wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Swisspease wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Lumping the "meh" people with the people who hated it is absurd. I could lump them with the people who liked it.

And if one was to take a proper poll then the "meh" people would be put into their own category. As I said earlier this is not a two party race. The majority might be the "meh" party.

The "Meh" people fall into the need to change it bracket because a "meh" person "meh"ght not buy the next game if this one didn't quite do it for them.

So... you're okay with deciding for a group and taking away their ability to make a personal choice, eh?  Tell me, how is that any different than what the Retakers claim BioWare did to ME fans in general?

You have no idea how ironic that statement is re: ending choice... however if you discount all the "Meh" people altogether then I think you have an even smaller minority than you realize.  "Meh" people don't care what happens, to this game, or BioWare, or their next game.  Apathy does not automatically put them in the pro-ending camp, or either camp for that matter, but logically if they're not fully satisfied then they may not go for the next product because their last experience wasn't memorable.  They have no opinion that matters either way.

The people who care enough to vote are the ones that matter whether they vote one way or the other.

As I said, I don't give a damn.  Make new endings or add some endings or don't bother at all.  It doesn't affect me.  Just don't lump me in with any one group unless I personally say I agree with their stance.

[yahtzo]

Heres an easy way to look at it:

The majority of the people who will stick around and buy DLC are upset with the endings.

Whether its a minority of people who actually bought the game is irrelevant at this point.  The money is already in EA's pockets.  If they want to sell future DLC, they have to cater to the people who are the most likely to buy DLC.

[terdferguson123]

Madcat 124 wrote...

 I have 3 people that I know have actually beaten the game who hate it. No one I know that has beaten it likes it.

I have 6 people who have played the game that don't know this ending rage even exists, and all loved the ending. What's your point? Oh, you have none? Funny.

[Amialis666]

I personally didn't join the Retake movement, because though I was angry about the endings, I found most of the members of it to be taking things too far... so I am sure there are others who disliked the endings but didn't sign up on facebooks.

[Swisspease]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Swisspease wrote...
I know how the Electoral College works. You miss the point which was to say that you don't need 51% to be a majority. That this is more than just black and white, there are several shades of grey.

Even with a margin of error, you'd still need a greater total percentage of people who dislike it than those who're okat with it to claim "we're a majority."  The problem is we can't get every single ME3 player in the world to vote.  We only have polls available on certain websites and boards, none of which house every player.  Even worse, many communities are polarized toward one side or the other, so the results get further skewed.

Swisspease wrote...And btw if you had read my other posts you'd have seen I was one of the few defending those who didn't care, like yourself.

I was replying to the people who seem to think I must fit into the two groups.  That said, thank you for defending me and those who think like me.  It's always nice to find people who don't believe in a "us vs them" mentality.

Me, personally, don't believe any of the online polls. Polls and statistics can be changed to support anyone's viewpoint. Whenever one of these pissing contests come up about numbers I always quote Mark Twain "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics."

[hex23]

Any poll that pops up, anywhere, the vast majority hates the ending. Maybe you could say "well, there's a ton of people out there that love the ending"....but these people are never represented, no matter how many polls are created. People are given an equal opportunity to express their opinion on the ending, and the negatives outweigh the postives by 75-90%.

Even on places like IGN, that don't even agree that the end should be changed. Their poll was something like 85% in favor of changing the end.

That doesn't seem odd? If you like the ending ok cool whatever, I have nothing against you but I don't see how anyone can argue that "most" or even "a decent amount" of people like the ending with zero factual basis for saying that. Anyone that hates the ending can point to polls....the fact that the game is now $40....the fact that Origin is handing out full refunds....the fact that Bioware themselves said they are going to address the ending....etc.

Bioware agreeing to "clarify" the end should be a massive clue about how many people dislike the end. Here's a clue: it's not the minority of the fans.

Modifié par hex23, 26 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[ZiegenkonigIII]

I am incredibly surprised no one has posted actual links to actual polls yet. Well here you go.

Keep in mind these are from the first 2 pages of google alone
http://www.dayonepat...er-thread-poll/

http://www.mmo-champ...ffect-3-Endings

http://www.computera...lew-the-ending/

http://social.biowar...606/polls/28989

http://www.giantbomb...poll/35-540016/ (INCOMPLETE)

http://news.cnet.com...fect-3s-ending/

http://www.escapistm...obably-Spoilers

Every single one of these is in favor of anti-ending. Except potentially the incomplete one.

Regardless, if you want me to pull up any more polls for further diversity just say so.

[Carnage752]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

I love how on every single poll, even on Biased sites on IGN, the majority of people dislike the ending, but the minority keeps asserting they are the majority even in the face of concrete evidence.

Basic math and population demographics people. The amount of peoplw who answered the polls are BEYOND survey size.

You're assuming everyone in the entire world who's played ME3 partakes in each and every website's poll and votes.

It's called sample size deadpool. Can't believe I have to repeat myself.

[DeadPoolX]

Carnage752 wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

I love how on every single poll, even on Biased sites on IGN, the majority of people dislike the ending, but the minority keeps asserting they are the majority even in the face of concrete evidence.

Basic math and population demographics people. The amount of peoplw who answered the polls are BEYOND survey size.

You're assuming everyone in the entire world who's played ME3 partakes in each and every website's poll and votes.

It's called sample size deadpool. Can't believe I have to repeat myself.

Yes, but unless you're collecting data from various groups -- not just the people who visit gaming websites -- the data itself is somewhat skewed.  It's not totally inaccurate, but not completely accurate either.

Bottom line: we'll never really know which "side" has the majority or minority. Although I don't suppose it really matters as BioWare has already said they're doing "something" to clarify the endings.