195 réponses à ce sujet

[tetrisblock4x1]

Sorry, I get the complaints about the ending, about why it was bad
writing I really do, but space magic? Why are we calling it that, and
why is it bad? I thought that the Reapers were according to Sovereign be
at least somewhat beyond our comprehension. You know what I think? I
think that Bioware would have been ****ed either way. By not explaining
how the catalyst works people are going to call it ridiculous space
magic, and if they did explain it then people would instead by whine
that Bioware have explained too much and that Bioware ****ing forgot
that the Reapers weren't supposed to be comprehensible. The unknowable
has always been a big part of Mass Effect since the begininng. In ME1 nobody knew a thing of the Reapers, the keepers or relays and the big Thorian plant had all of the
best scientists totally stumped. In ME2 the collectors had managed to
build a base in the centre of the galaxy despite the fact that it was
meant to entirely inaccessible from the outside. And in ME3 it's this whole synthesis "space
magic". If nothing else synthesising with a big green light is consistent with the whole mysteriousness of Mass Effect but whether it was good writing which made for a satisfactory story is beside the point

[BeefoTheBold]

Well, one reason it's space magic is because synthetic creatures don't have DNA to synthesize.

Another is because it's basically galaxy wide DNA space-rape.

[Heimdall]

My theory is that the green wave actually contained nanobots that altered organic and synthetic life on the most basic of levels. Just me...

[Nepp]

No matter the color you pick, its all space magic.

Modifié par Nepp, 26 mars 2012 - 12:54 .

[Heimdall]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Well, one reason it's space magic is because synthetic creatures don't have DNA to synthesize.

Another is because it's basically galaxy wide DNA space-rape.

The Catalyst never says there is synthetic DNA, it just compares the result of the synthesis to DNA.

[o Ventus]

"Time to go combine any and all organic life forms with any and all synthetics life forms, disregarding any and all biological differences in said life forms."

So if Joker glows green underneath, do the remaining geth and EDI grow skin and lungs?

Modifié par o Ventus, 26 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[Atakuma]

Space magic is the entire basis of modern civilization in the ME universe. I'm not sure why this is now a problem all of a sudden.

[jess05]

He says
You can Combine Organics and Synthetics. A new DNA. It is the final stage of evolution.

But he also said he didnt want organics to be killed by synthetics so he created sythetics to kill organics so they wouldn't be killed by synthetics.

So nothing he says has any logic or reason to it.

[MrnDpty161]

Its still tech eating organics, to me its Galaxy-wide indoctrination.

[Heimdall]

o Ventus wrote...

"Time to go combine any and all organic life forms with any and all synthetics life forms, disregarding any and all biological differences in said life forms."

So if Joker glows green underneath, do the remaining geth and EDI grow skin and lungs?

Do we know what the result was?  No, but that is not in itself space magic.

[Random Geth]

Atakuma wrote...

Space magic is the entire basis of modern civilization in the ME universe. I'm not sure why this is now a problem all of a sudden.

I'm assuming you mean element zero and mass effect fields?  That's different because they've been long-established and generally used consistently.  Plus, what they do and how they function is VERY different than what goes down in the ending.

The argument that they're exactly the same because they're both impossible concepts is a massive fallacy.

[jess05]

I would agree.
Synth option is what the Reapers do anyway. So you just do thier job for them.
Control option is the same. You end up doing thier job for them.

[Atakuma]

Random Geth wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Space magic is the entire basis of modern civilization in the ME universe. I'm not sure why this is now a problem all of a sudden.

I'm assuming you mean element zero and mass effect fields?  That's different because they've been long-established and generally used consistently.  Plus, what they do and how they function is VERY different than what goes down in the ending.

The argument that they're exactly the same because they're both impossible concepts is a massive fallacy.

The reapers have been doing a version of this throughout the entire trilogy. It's not an entirely new concept.

[notsoavragejoe]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Well, one reason it's space magic is because synthetic creatures don't have DNA to synthesize.

Another is because it's basically galaxy wide DNA space-rape.

Sounds about right. 

[Heimdall]

jess05 wrote...

He says
You can Combine Organics and Synthetics. A new DNA. It is the final stage of evolution.

But he also said he didnt want organics to be killed by synthetics so he created sythetics to kill organics so they wouldn't be killed by synthetics.

So nothing he says has any logic or reason to it.

Good lord, he doesn't kill off organics he preserves them in Reaper form so they do not create synthetic life that is capable of wiping them out completely, thus allowing younger races a chance to rise up.

[Heimdall]

notsoavragejoe wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Well, one reason it's space magic is because synthetic creatures don't have DNA to synthesize.

Another is because it's basically galaxy wide DNA space-rape.

Sounds about right. 

And yet the Reapers were breaking down organics to create synthetic hybrid Reapers.  This isn't a new concept.

[o Ventus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Time to go combine any and all organic life forms with any and all synthetics life forms, disregarding any and all biological differences in said life forms."

So if Joker glows green underneath, do the remaining geth and EDI grow skin and lungs?

Do we know what the result was?  No, but that is not in itself space magic.

Except we do.

As I said, Joker glows visibly green, and pulsates what looks like circuit boards under his skin during the Normandy's crash. So... organics take some synthetic traits, so would synthetics take on organic traits (growing skin and organs)?

[Heimdall]

jess05 wrote...

I would agree.
Synth option is what the Reapers do anyway. So you just do thier job for them.
Control option is the same. You end up doing thier job for them.

Recombining life based on Shepard is not doing what the Reapers want.
Controlling the Reapers is not what the Reapers want...

The Inoctrination theory relies on assuming everything is a lie.  It's bogus.

[o Ventus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

jess05 wrote...

He says
You can Combine Organics and Synthetics. A new DNA. It is the final stage of evolution.

But he also said he didnt want organics to be killed by synthetics so he created sythetics to kill organics so they wouldn't be killed by synthetics.

So nothing he says has any logic or reason to it.

Good lord, he doesn't kill off organics he preserves them in Reaper form so they do not create synthetic life that is capable of wiping them out completely, thus allowing younger races a chance to rise up.

You know, for wanting to harvest people, he sure makes it a point to outright kill everyone. The people he and the Reapers don't flat-out murder are turned into husks, which are not harvested.

You don't actually see anyone being processed into the next proto-Reaper.

[Heimdall]

o Ventus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Time to go combine any and all organic life forms with any and all synthetics life forms, disregarding any and all biological differences in said life forms."

So if Joker glows green underneath, do the remaining geth and EDI grow skin and lungs?

Do we know what the result was?  No, but that is not in itself space magic.

Except we do.

As I said, Joker glows visibly green, and pulsates what looks like circuit boards under his skin during the Normandy's crash. So... organics take some synthetic traits, so would synthetics take on organic traits (growing skin and organs)?

I suspect they will gain the ability to percieve the world as organics do.  Like actually feeling wind, actually smelling, instead of merely detectiing these things.  They needn't be obvious to the naked eye, but they may be able to feel emotions the way organics do.  EDI certainly seemed unusually relaxed and happy.

Organics may gain the ability to percieve data streams as synthetics do.

[Heimdall]

o Ventus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

jess05 wrote...

He says
You can Combine Organics and Synthetics. A new DNA. It is the final stage of evolution.

But he also said he didnt want organics to be killed by synthetics so he created sythetics to kill organics so they wouldn't be killed by synthetics.

So nothing he says has any logic or reason to it.

Good lord, he doesn't kill off organics he preserves them in Reaper form so they do not create synthetic life that is capable of wiping them out completely, thus allowing younger races a chance to rise up.

You know, for wanting to harvest people, he sure makes it a point to outright kill everyone. The people he and the Reapers don't flat-out murder are turned into husks, which are not harvested.

You don't actually see anyone being processed into the next proto-Reaper.

Actually there are reports from earth about the Reapers setting up locations where they gather and harvest humans.  The Reapers do not consider organic life relevant on an individual basis with perhaps the exception of Shepard.  As long as they harvest enough to preserve the species in Reaper form they're fine with turning millions into husks in order to supress the resistance.

It's also worth considering that the we don't know if the DNA from Husks is unusable for creating a Reaper.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 mars 2012 - 01:19 .

[o Ventus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Time to go combine any and all organic life forms with any and all synthetics life forms, disregarding any and all biological differences in said life forms."

So if Joker glows green underneath, do the remaining geth and EDI grow skin and lungs?

Do we know what the result was?  No, but that is not in itself space magic.

Except we do.

As I said, Joker glows visibly green, and pulsates what looks like circuit boards under his skin during the Normandy's crash. So... organics take some synthetic traits, so would synthetics take on organic traits (growing skin and organs)?

I suspect they will gain the ability to percieve the world as organics do.  Like actually feeling wind, actually smelling, instead of merely detectiing these things.  They needn't be obvious to the naked eye, but they may be able to feel emotions the way organics do.  EDI certainly seemed unusually relaxed and happy.

Organics may gain the ability to percieve data streams as synthetics do.

Yeah... it isn't a metaphorical transformation. It's literal. Everyone in the galaxy is essentially turning into the Borg.

When the Catalyst itself says you're creating a new DNA, you would need to show some minor semblance, especially since synthetics don't have DNA to synthesize. Synthetics can't smell flowers or feel wind, because they don't have receptive or sensory organs.

Oh, and EDI is "alive" (If you're referring to the free will topic) all throughout ME3.

[o Ventus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

It's also worth considering that the we don't know if the DNA from Husks is unusable for creating a Reaper.

The humans in ME2 are very clearly shown being liquefied into grey goo. No husk-ification.

Husks are clearly stated (all throughout the trilogy) as having the innards and organs in the body, plus the metals and water replaced by cybernetics.

[Sgt Stryker]

Lord Aesir wrote...

jess05 wrote...

He says
You can Combine Organics and Synthetics. A new DNA. It is the final stage of evolution.

But he also said he didnt want organics to be killed by synthetics so he created sythetics to kill organics so they wouldn't be killed by synthetics.

So nothing he says has any logic or reason to it.

Good lord, he doesn't kill off organics he preserves them in Reaper form so they do not create synthetic life that is capable of wiping them out completely, thus allowing younger races a chance to rise up.

Yep, the Reapers are doing a bang-up job of preserving organic life here trololololo

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 26 mars 2012 - 01:27 .

[Heimdall]

o Ventus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Time to go combine any and all organic life forms with any and all synthetics life forms, disregarding any and all biological differences in said life forms."

So if Joker glows green underneath, do the remaining geth and EDI grow skin and lungs?

Do we know what the result was?  No, but that is not in itself space magic.

Except we do.

As I said, Joker glows visibly green, and pulsates what looks like circuit boards under his skin during the Normandy's crash. So... organics take some synthetic traits, so would synthetics take on organic traits (growing skin and organs)?

I suspect they will gain the ability to percieve the world as organics do.  Like actually feeling wind, actually smelling, instead of merely detectiing these things.  They needn't be obvious to the naked eye, but they may be able to feel emotions the way organics do.  EDI certainly seemed unusually relaxed and happy.

Organics may gain the ability to percieve data streams as synthetics do.

Yeah... it isn't a metaphorical transformation. It's literal. Everyone in the galaxy is essentially turning into the Borg.

When the Catalyst itself says you're creating a new DNA, you would need to show some minor semblance, especially since synthetics don't have DNA to synthesize. Synthetics can't smell flowers or feel wind, because they don't have receptive or sensory organs.

Oh, and EDI is "alive" (If you're referring to the free will topic) all throughout ME3.

Why would you think I was suggesting a metaphoric transformation?

He says that Shepard will be creating "a new framework, a new... DNA" so honestly I don't think he was literally refering to DNA, only using it to express how in depth the changes would be.

Synthetics couldn't, now with the new alterations, maybe they can.

I was only suggesting that EDI might be able to experience emotion in the same manner as an organic, citing her unusually (close? relaxed?) behavior after the synthesis, the way she cuddled up to Joker.  I know she was alive, only that now she is alive in a way more recognizably organic.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 mars 2012 - 01:35 .